Chaznoodles - 15-DEC-2015 - 11PM

[Blizzard]

BYOND Key: InquisitorJohn

Player Byond Key: Chaznoodles

Staff involved: -

Reason for complaint:

The reason for the writing of this complaint is because of a little incident that happened in the early minutes of one of the rounds the 15th. It was reported over Security comms that a cadet had fired a practice laser gun at the eyes of another, cadet, and he was warned for it. After that, the cadet went to Hydroponics and, from what was reported, tried to assault the Hydroponicist, God knows why. I attended the scene, and the cadet was trapped inside. The door was opened for me, and I held the cadet in place, while I called for the HoS, Josen Keelin - or Chaznoodles - to attend. At that time, he was at the bar, drinking. He did not respond over Security comms. The detective (Mephistopheles Azazael) attended, and by the time he did, the cadet floored me with a couple of punches. The cadet tried to run, and the detective for some reason drew his lethal revolver, and opened fire on the cadet, who got hit several times. Hypatia yelled for the detective to stop, and even stepped in his line of fire for him to stop, resulting in her getting shot twice in the head. The detective stopped, after a while, and after Hypatia called out for the HoS over comms for him to stop the detective from using lethals, he did not respond. Hypatia went to the bar, and tried to haul the HoS off from the stool, who was drunk at the time. She couldn't due to injuries, which made her hands useless. She informed him of the situation, through yelling, and thus he went off to deal with the detective. After a while, and after getting Hypatia repaired, the HoS spoke over comms, to the detective saying "Just don't do it again." Even after the detective opened lethal fire on a cadet and an officer, he went unpunished. I originally intended to report this on Incident Reports, but I was informed that the entire drinking, ignoring comms and applying no punishment to what the detective did was a violation of the loyalty implant the HoS is supposed to have, and thus, it was to be reported here.

Approximate Date/Time: 15th December, nearly 11pm.

[Garnascus]

Chaz is currently banned from the forums but ive added him on skype to copy/paste his reasoning here. I will post it shortly.

[Garnascus]

The following is chaznoodle's words, not my own.

'The detective was politely warned for their actions, and did nothing further, instead being a loyal and contributing member of the security force whom I was happy to work alongside.

On the other hand, you. I can say that you were disruptive and rude, with comments including but not limited to "fucking retard" and "go die". I asked you repeatedly to stop but you refused, instead continuing your tirade even when other officers told you to stop.

Not only limited to this, you blitzed into a hostage situation, albeit with other security members, and lasted two hostages to death along with a couple of shots on myself, before murdering two of the three hostage takers whom I was negotiating peacefully with. You then proceeded to blame the entire occurence on me, stating that you were the only officer brave enough to speak out, whilst the other officers were asking you to be quiet.

You created situations in which you were to blame, but instead cherry picked to suit yourself. I would have been happy to make a report against you, but I was happy enough to give you another chance, seeing as I had never interacted with your decidedly snowflakey shell before. I won't be making that mistake again.

I'd politely ask for this complaint to be deleted rather than locked, as to not smirch my name with this delightful ignorance.'

End of chaznoodle's words.

[Frances]

Just a small detail, but as far as I know the only thing loyalty implants really do is bind their recipients to act in what they believe to be NanoTrasen's best interests. It's not binding as far as SOP/corporate regs, it only goes as far as the character's judgement goes.

Even if a HoS decides to take a break to have a drink, and makes a series of errors of judgement from there, it doesn't necessarily break their loyalty implant (it just means they think what they're doing is right even if it might not be). What would happen is they'd likely get in trouble with the higher-ups if they did too shitty of a job. Loyalty implants basically prevent people from going traitor or voluntarily fucking over NT, but it doesn't stop them from sucking.

[UnknownMurder]

I was Alex Graves, the Forensic Technician, and I'll just tell you from my perspective.

I late joined into the round after the time where the Detective was shooting up people. That's none of my business as long as it was dealt with. Later on, I meet the Detective and Head of Security for the first time in the Interrogation room with operative (Excalibur). Head of Security tells Detective, "No Violence". Detective proceeds to do so anyways, I decided not to utter a word of this because I believed it was needed if the operative refuses to talk. Later, operative decides to suicide bomb with detective, amazingly I was far enough not to be affected. Detective acts as if he didn't feel pain, and player complained over LOOC for that. I believe the Detective is at fault, not the Head of Security. **(See next paragraph, it chains up.)

MOVING ON to the part where Detective went SSD and Cyro Slept. I had a Officer to take Detective's headset, and a roboticist was recording transcript the whole time. I found some INTERESTING PARTS about Hypatia during my investigation and my character found Hypatia unjust and decided to side with Head of Security not only because he had high authority, but because you interrupted a peaceful negotiation. You should be shunned for this, I was not even in the game. You sort of DECLARED WAR on them. As well as I found something going by, "Die!" toward to the operatives. Now, you say. He violated FEP, but guess what? He was having a negotiation and you kept going on that he was 'captured'. I showed my findings to the Head of Security, and Head of Security gave you three chances to drop this matter. You refused and said, "YOU'RE TRYING TO SILENCE ME!" **You tried to back up your claims something going by 'The actions of your officers is your responsibility'.

Seriously? That was very unprofessional of you when you try to act professional. So then, Head of Security presented the matters to the CC. I think it's fair. You went full retarded, mate. I think who needs a time out is you, my dear John.

ALSO, I was requested by Chaznoodles & Garcanus to post my findings here. I hope this helps.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

In previous rounds Hypatia has attempted to take matters into her own hands (grabbing riot gear and lethal weapons to mow down a subverted borg as a "brig physician") and arguing with Heads of Staff. She's an extremely hostile character on top of the natural stubborn nature.

[SierraKomodo]

In previous rounds Hypatia has attempted to take matters into her own hands (grabbing riot gear and lethal weapons to mow down a subverted borg as a "brig physician") and arguing with Heads of Staff. She's an extremely hostile character on top of the natural stubborn nature.

 

Is this complaint about Chaznoodles or hypatia?

[UnknownMurder]

In previous rounds Hypatia has attempted to take matters into her own hands (grabbing riot gear and lethal weapons to mow down a subverted borg as a "brig physician") and arguing with Heads of Staff. She's an extremely hostile character on top of the natural stubborn nature.

 

Is this complaint about Chaznoodles or hypatia?

 

Shifting to Hypatia. I originally mean to have defended Chaznoodles.

[Guest]

As !FUN! as it is to deflect guilt from one to the other in complaints, I think the objective of the defendant in a complaint is to be able to defend themselves for their own actions and reasoning. To absolve themselves of guilt, preferably? As far as I've seen, I think that's been done.

I'm pretty sure this complaint isn't about Hypatia. Getting your buddies to slug at another character is probably best done in a separate complaint.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Unless I've misunderstood, this complaint is regarding Chaznoodle's character's behavior, which Hypatia influenced through the yelling, and he even responded with the information that Hypatia was a bigger role in the issue than first mentioned.

That's all that's really intended: Giving the context that Hypatia is an extremely confrontational character. With that context available, I'll take my leave here.

[Blizzard]

Unless I've misunderstood, this complaint is regarding Chaznoodle's character's behavior, which Hypatia influenced through the yelling, and he even responded with the information that Hypatia was a bigger role in the issue than first mentioned.

That's all that's really intended: Giving the context that Hypatia is an extremely confrontational character. With that context available, I'll take my leave here.

 

I originally intended to make this an IR, for the entire detective issue, and the "Fucking die" and "You're retarded" was antag-driven, given that Chaz's character failed to follow First Encounter Protocol and got captured by the nuke operatives instead. The "Fucking die" was spoken whilst Hypatia downed one of the ops, and the "You're retarded" was after the situation had cooled down, directed to the bloody HoS was standing in front of the Medbay.

However, I explained the entire situation to a moderator, and this moderator told me that drinking behaviour, failure to attend to when called regarding Security matters and the detective issue was to be taken to a player/character complain, rather than IR. I was informed this was a violation of the loyalty implant. And once more, the "Fucking die" and "You're retarded" was antag-driven, and I would not be putting that in an Indicent Report.

I hold nothing personal against Chaznoodles' character, and my intentions are to solve and clarify this matter. Regarding Hypatia's "erratic" behaviour, that's a yes and a no, though I won't bother to explain how my character's been developed thus far until this point. Once more, I do not mean to criticize, but rather, clarify this entire issue.

Regarding the newcop issue, the thing is that the HoS failed to follow the FEP. He went right for Research, where the hostages and the operatives were, screaming over sec comms to go only with tazers. No armory, no nothing. The operatives were denoted as armed and hostile. As far as I'm concerned, no officer - for the sake of sanity - followed his rush and thus the HoS got captured. HoSless, the remainder of the Security team was unsure what to do. We simply geared up and intended to clear the situation. We rushed in, and as soon as Security and the Newcops saw each other, gunfight ensued. It is not certain who killed the two civillians, given that I printed the logs too late. Security won, newcops and civillians cloned, boom, done. As Hypatia stated, several times, something along the lines of, "We're not your best military personnel around. We do not have special weapons and tactics training. We're mall cops. You failed to follow the FEP, and this led to us taking the action we deemed right. This falls under your responsiblity." Hypatia was not the one leading the assault team, rather, she was simply the one who stood up to defend the assault team's actions. The team was led by the Warden at that time, Hypatia was simply one in the front.

[rrrrrr]

Just dropping in to say there is actually no such thing as "First Encounter Protocol". There is First Contact Protocol, but you can probably guess that it doesn't apply to raiders who are very clearly not aliens.

[Blizzard]

Just dropping in to say there is actually no such thing as "First Encounter Protocol". There is First Contact Protocol, but you can probably guess that it doesn't apply to raiders who are very clearly not aliens.

 

Rushing in with tasers and no other gear isn't necessarily the best option either. The steps in the FEP topic are considerably more reasonable than that. Or planning, at all, rather than just go in, wailing non-lethal weaponry and brandishing no armor at all.

[Guest]

John, we call that proper escalation of force and self-preservation. The former relates to the eternal struggle of sensibility vs. urgency, in which someone needs to pick their poison in dealing with an antagonistic force, without overdoing it and causing a shitstorm.

The latter attribute varies from character to character. Normal human beings would rather not go into situations in which they would have a very high chance of dying or facing defeat in some way. Synthetics are often programmed the same way for different reasons, particularly because they are expensive property of their maker and it wouldn't be worth it if your personal guardbuddy robot returned to your doorstep in different shoeboxes as scrap.

So, OP, here's my question. Were any of the head of security's actions unreasonable from a roleplay standpoint?

[Blizzard]

John, we call that proper escalation of force and self-preservation. The former relates to the eternal struggle of sensibility vs. urgency, in which someone needs to pick their poison in dealing with an antagonistic force, without overdoing it and causing a shitstorm.

The latter attribute varies from character to character. Normal human beings would rather not go into situations in which they would have a very high chance of dying or facing defeat in some way. Synthetics are often programmed the same way for different reasons, particularly because they are expensive property of their maker and it wouldn't be worth it if your personal guardbuddy robot returned to your doorstep in different shoeboxes as scrap.

So, OP, here's my question. Were any of the head of security's actions unreasonable from a roleplay standpoint?

 

As per how the matter turned out, I'm sure most of the assault team who would rather stay behind than charge in with tasers and no other equipment, and myself, would say yes to such. While it was not abnormally unreasonable, it was still not the course of action that should have been taken. After the raid concluded and Security won the gunfight, I recall the HoS continously yelling that he was 'trying to establish conversation with the captors and negotiate to establish communication,' and when Hypatia questioned him by implying he could have just simply tried to establish conversation without trying to Rambo it out, he immediately tried to silence me by threatening me to have me fired if I kept talking about the matter. Read back to Murder's statement.

 

I had a Officer to take Detective's headset, and a roboticist was recording transcript the whole time. I found some INTERESTING PARTS about Hypatia during my investigation and my character found Hypatia unjust and decided to side with Head of Security not only because he had high authority, but because you interrupted a peaceful negotiation. You should be shunned for this, I was not even in the game. You sort of DECLARED WAR on them. As well as I found something going by, "Die!" toward to the operatives. Now, you say. He violated FEP, but guess what? He was having a negotiation and you kept going on that he was 'captured'.

 

I would also like to point (once more) that this complaint is not even about the antag-part of the round, but rather, the detective-shooting-at-me-and-the-cadet-with-lethals that I was told to be a loyalty implant violation. I don't really care about the assault scene. People were killed, mistakes were made, and for some reason everyone here wants to be the righteous hero. I do not state that Hypatia's actions were righteous or heroic. They are simply justified.

[Shadow]

InquisitorJohn's inactive for a good while by now, I'll mark this as inactive

It will be re-opened once he's back.