Guest Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 Currently, the antag para pen can paralyze through armor that doesn't even have contact surfaces. How about a fix. Make it so pen function similar to bandages and ointments, not allowing to be applied through hard surfaces. The pen is OP in its current state.
Alberyk Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 The parapen was supossed to be a really small hypospray, so, I believe if we change how the parapen works, it would be fair to apply the same changes to the hypospray itself.
TishinaStalker Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 Actually, probably not necessarily. When you go to inject someone with a normal syringe, you have a log that you're searching for an injection port on the person. That's probably a REALLY small port for a syringe, and that's why it still takes time. Meanwhile, a hypospray would probably have a bigger port, easier access, press, inject. How about, instead, parapens simply have the same thing as a syringe? You need to hunt for an injection port because probably instead of a ballpoint it has a syringe needle, and totally nothing big enough for a hypospray port. This way, you can still have parapens be used on people wearing hardsuits in order to not lose that utility, but it's not instantaneous. At the same time, have the log not show that you're using a parapen. Simply "X is looking for an injection port on Y!" like it normally is for syringes. It still remains discrete.
Susan Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 How can you be discrete when you're jamming a pen into the sockets in someone's hardsuit. Instead, why don't we do the common sense route and have the parapen be ineffective against any armored body part? The fact you can get stabbed through riot armor and armored space suits is entirely ridiculous.
Guest Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 Para pens are supposed to be only effective through exposed skin, given that they aren't autoinjectors. Part of the reason why you can't tell if a pen is a parapen at first glance is because if its mechanical design was any different, it'd get picked up as suspicious. I can't imagine neurotoxins through the tip of a jury-rigged pen would be able to puncture through clothing. You'd have to target the back of the HoS' neck, for instance, given they usually spawn with gear that covers their arms, upper torso and legs. For instance, most of your ink would be replaced with whatever paralytic toxins it comes with in the uplink. You mostly would just have to poke someone with the pen so that the toxins enters the bloodstream of your target. It just works. I still think it should provide a warning [e.g., You feel a tiny prick, and your limbs begin to grow weak. Your mind feels cloudy and you can't seem to focus.] to the victim.
Frances Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 The whole point of parapens is that they're stealthy. If you provide a person with a warning that they've been injected, you just turned the parapen into a syringe. I think making parapens ineffective against hardsuits adds an interesting (if small) dynamic. Since they're mostly meant to be used as stealth items I don't see this affecting anything terribly important (if you need to neutralize a person in a hardsuit right now you should probably have to rely on something else than your tiny parapen). Don't make them provide people with a warning, though. The ability to inject chemicals instantaneously alone is only really effective in melee combat, and people here seem to think parapens as a combat tool are bad (because they're unrealistic? Meh, so are most cool SS13 combat tricks.)
Alberyk Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 When people are injected with a parapen, they will yawn, so there is a kind of warning already.
Skull132 Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 The warning is: you are about to get fucked up. I will agree that you shouldn't be able to jab it through armoured bodyparts, and I do believe that's doable (harm-syringes do the same check).
Guest Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Auto-injectors should uh. Also sort of have the same effect. Same with the hypospray.
TishinaStalker Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 What about my suggested fix for hardsuited people? The only thing said about it is that it's not supposed to be discrete, but I think it's because my suggestion was misunderstood. If you try to inject someone wearing a hardsuit with a syringe, you get a log saying "X is hunting for an injection port in Y!", and my fix was for the same thing to happen with the parapen so that way they won't know it's a parapen from the log, but will instead have to examine/look at you.
Frances Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 What about my suggested fix for hardsuited people? The only thing said about it is that it's not supposed to be discrete, but I think it's because my suggestion was misunderstood. If you try to inject someone wearing a hardsuit with a syringe, you get a log saying "X is hunting for an injection port in Y!", and my fix was for the same thing to happen with the parapen so that way they won't know it's a parapen from the log, but will instead have to examine/look at you. Would there be a benefit, though? If you have any job where your hardsuited target wouldn't have a reason to freak out were you to inject them with a syringe (science, medical), you would already have access to perfectly good syringes, making the parapen's only asset, once again, stealth. Additionally, this would be for the tradeoff of no longer making the parapen "dummy-proof", because you'd expect it to be stealthy, except it would come with an unexpected "non-stealth" function (instead of giving you a harmless "you can't figure out a way to apply the parapen to your target's skin" message) when applying it to any hardsuited individuals.
TishinaStalker Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Yes, it actually would. Hi, I'm a medic! Lemme inject you with this medi-- Oh dear! That seems to have been a paralysis pen! It's a tool of deception like antags are supposed to be. It has its mechanical use, yes, but you still need to find the proper way to use it. Plus, it's better than simply making it "parapens cannot be used on hardsuits despite hardsuits having injection ports because hardsuits are armored" EDIT: Also, uhhhhh were you to inject them with a syringe (science, medical), you would already have access to perfectly good syringes There still exists such a thing as non-medical and non-science. They can find a way to masquerade as science or medical, but they might still not have access to syringes. Your post just kinda sounds like "Well, you got syringes. Why does it matter?" And that's not usually the attitude to take when it comes to developing game mechanics when you can give a mechanic to a different item if that can breed different interactions.
Frances Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 If you can steal a medical jumpsuit you can probably steal a syringe (they're literally everywhere. Science. Medbay. Brig infirmary. Cargo where they get thrown down disposals. Just come up with an excuse to ask for one.) I'm not against having this mechanic for the sake of not having it. I think it's counter-intuitive for a stealth item, which is expected to give no immediate warning to your victim, to have a chance to produce a visible red text log when certain (maybe non-obvious) conditions are met. For a highly specific payoff in a highly unusual situation which is unlikely to happen, and for which other solutions are already present.
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