Remove Vaurca from Security Roles

[SilverTalismen]

Vaurca cannot currently break cuffs that I am aware of

[Alberyk]

Vaurca cannot currently break cuffs that I am aware of

 

They can, for some reason, and I already reported so on the github.

[canon35]

I agree with them only being in sec roles like cadet. If you just discovered this species and put them to work, maybe it isn't smart to entrust them with the security of a (Valuable?) research station. Plus, are we all forgetting that they stole a bunch of data from NT, or was that retconned?

[LordFowl]

Following that path of logic, they should also be banned from all science roles which are at the very forefront of NanoTrasen's secure assets. Might as well remove them from engineering, because we can't entrust them with the integrity of a station if we can't trust them with its security. Medical is a no-brainer. Why would we ever trust a dirty bug to go digging around in our anatomy? They might bite us while we're under anesthesia. They of course can't be janitors, because they might just abuse the power of jan-fu and slip people. And then bite them. Chef and Bartender is def a negative. Buggy grubby bug hands in our beer and sandwiches? No thank you! Plus, they'd just bite the drunks. Cargo is also a no-go. They might just order monkeys. For biting. Plus, they'd have free access to the secrets of NanoTrasen postal codes, which are closely guarded secrets. That leaves just librarian, Chaplain, staff assistant, and of course Internal Affairs Agent.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

Here's a quote from the wiki about bound vaurca:

 

All warriors and standard drones are Bound. They are commonly seen on NanoTrasen stations as civilian jobs, like cargo technician, chef, assistant, Janitor, or any kind of apprentice, barring security and science. While they, by law, receive pay, there are no regulations in place for simply asking for the Bound's money, so they are often employed as nearly cost-less workers.

 

It doesn't sound like the bound vaurca are really smart enough for use in sec positions anyway.

[Theplahunter]

Following that path of logic, they should also be banned from all science roles which are at the very forefront of NanoTrasen's secure assets. Might as well remove them from engineering, because we can't entrust them with the integrity of a station if we can't trust them with its security. Medical is a no-brainer. Why would we ever trust a dirty bug to go digging around in our anatomy? They might bite us while we're under anesthesia. They of course can't be janitors, because they might just abuse the power of jan-fu and slip people. And then bite them. Chef and Bartender is def a negative. Buggy grubby bug hands in our beer and sandwiches? No thank you! Plus, they'd just bite the drunks. Cargo is also a no-go. They might just order monkeys. For biting. Plus, they'd have free access to the secrets of NanoTrasen postal codes, which are closely guarded secrets. That leaves just librarian, Chaplain, staff assistant, and of course Internal Affairs Agent.

 

Yeah, pretty much.

Also not even IAA, they couldn't be trusted with classified info on crew members.

[Vanagandr]

It doesn't sound like the bound vaurca are really smart enough for use in sec positions anyway.

"Borg, keep people from going in here."

"Borg, don't let anyone run off with this evidence."

"Borg, catch that fucking baldie."

Replace "borg" with "bug" where needed.

[LordFowl]

You have chosen to play the most human-like aspect of the Vaurca, and the one with the most opportunities. The Unbound are a cool factor of the Vaurca. They can either be completely unique, spending their time in the physical world, learning and loving themselves and others, or can be similar to drones, fresh off a hive and from their VR, barely knowing anything. They can hate their bodies or others around them, because they were torn from the VR they call paradise.

They can be any job, and can be either Type A or Type BA.

 

Another quote from the wiki, highlighting the fact that Unbound Vaurca can A: Be security, and B: Be Warriors (Type BA). Whether Warriors can be Unbound and thus be security in the first place is not the operative question here. What is is whether they should stay that way.

[Conservatron]

Situations IC should be handled a bit more... carefully with Tajara. It'd be a P.R nightmare for nanotransen if Tajara were just in menial labor roles, but they are considered dangerous due to the fact they're literally armed 24/7 with their claws. Same with Vaurca and their mandibles, at even regular human bites can break bone and skin, we have strong jaws and Vaurcan jaws are even stronger.

Anyways, just because Tajaran are looked down upon as 'terrorists' it'd be stereotyping to believe all tajaran are terrorists and the same should be considered for Vaurca. Just because of previous reputation of the race does not mean they're all like that. Characters like Houssam Jawdat makes a great HoP, which opened up more options for Tajaran workers because of him. Same should be considered for Vaurcans, how many Vaurca security players have killed with their mandibles yet? They should be watched closely by other officers and stripped of duty if they screw up, but banning an entire race could be seen as Xenophobic and Xeno rights groups would be -all over NT- for it. (just imagine how angry Essel would get.)

I just want to throw out that the current Sol Alliance government is a majority unity between GAIA and ATLAS, both of which are pro earth and publicly human supremacist.

With that kind of popular support, it wouldn't exactly be social or political suicide to embrace speciest policies when it comes to employment

[Lady_of_Ravens]

It doesn't sound like the bound vaurca are really smart enough for use in sec positions anyway.

"Borg, keep people from going in here."

"Borg, don't let anyone run off with this evidence."

"Borg, catch that fucking baldie."

Replace "borg" with "bug" where needed.

 

Borgs are as smart as a person, and smarter than some people. Bound vaurca aren't.

[LordFowl]

Unbound Vaurca are as smart as people. You will note that Bound Vaurca are barred from security, while Unbound Vaurca are not, as the wiki and myself stated.

[Guest]

I just want to throw out that the current Sol Alliance government is a majority unity between GAIA and ATLAS, both of which are pro earth and publicly human supremacist.

With that kind of popular support, it wouldn't exactly be social or political suicide to embrace speciest policies when it comes to employment

The Republic of Biesel is an independant governing body, controling the Tau Ceti system, as such, Sol Alliance and their policies have little direct impact on government on Biesel. However, while it's not directly stated, Sol Alliance and RoB seem to be allies and partners, so much so that citizens freely move between the two empires. However, with the new policies, that freedom of movement is restricted somewhat to non-skrell, though more controled processing and stricter immigration standards.

As the creator of GAIA, I wouldn't exactly call them supremacist, since they officially view Skrell as friends, but also view the uplift programs and tempering done on Taj and Unathi as a disgrace for humanity. They support the idea that every species has a right to carve their own future without tampering and influence of others. If they seem supremacist, it's because Taj and Unathi are so ass backwards that it may seem condescending to abandon them.

[EvilBrage]

Honestly, what the fuck do you people want? For us to ban all aliens except Skrell and IPCs? Because those are only two non-humans that actually have a statistical chance of being on Aurora.

 

Ahahahahaha! Someone fucking said it!

Rant begin: let's bear in mind that it's taken centuries for humans to accept even other humans as equals when the only difference between them was their skin color. From a societal standpoint, the likelihood that humanity as a race would accept tajarans, unathi, and varuca as anything close to equal within the tiny span of a few years is nil - but we can't go back and retroactively change the fact that we've been letting tajarans and unathi do just that for a long time on the server now, so I'd encourage us to not make the same mistake with the varuca.

I'm tired of the only differences between the races being mechanical ones - sure, we stuff a wiki full of all this lore and presumed prejudice, but for some reason it never really happens when you get in-game; I'm not sure what we even have alien whitelist pages for if the standard of play is essentially the same. This is the first I've heard of tajarans being presumed terrorists, and I've been playing for a long time - nobody ever mentions it in-game because there's really no difference in-game. Let's change that. Have a few high-profile events, or maybe just some news stories about some major "accidents" or terrorist attacks and start cutting aliens from job roles. That'll make far more conflict than an excerpt from a wiki that nobody reads.

[Gollee]

There are a lot of the taj terrorist stories on the IC newscasters already. You just actually need to read them.

[Guest]

Rant begin: let's bear in mind that it's taken centuries for humans to accept even other humans as equals when the only difference between them was their skin color. From a societal standpoint, the likelihood that humanity as a race would accept tajarans, unathi, and varuca as anything close to equal within the tiny span of a few years is nil - but we can't go back and retroactively change the fact that we've been letting tajarans and unathi do just that for a long time on the server now, so I'd encourage us to not make the same mistake with the varuca.

There is a big difference, however. 100 years or so ago, the concept of extraterrestrials was hardly even a thought. Talking about it, we would've been labeled mentally innept and put in a psychiatric institute. Then, if they found another different subspecies of humans in some sacluded caves, they would've labeled them as subhuman and put on display. Today, we would probably be shocked and paralized with innaction. We would probably try and integrate them into our society as equals. You, me and everyone else here is capable of discussing if Aliens or even animals should be treated as people. If same rights should be given to AI's. We've learned to consider that things different than us, may not necessarily be separate. This is a sign that society has matured. Not completely, but we are getting there.

So, considering that, according to Aurora lore, we are 400 years from first contact, I think we'll have sufficient time to debate these things and have society develop in a direction that would actually more easily integrate any alien species. I think the players that insist on a racist, xenophobic and backwards-ass future society just prefer to play in societies that are more similar to ours. It's a good place to be free from social rules, to explore concepts how our society functions. It's like a clever metaphore. I actually get that.

However, just because it makes sense to you, it does not mean it's realistic. It's, by far, overly pessimistic to think that Humans would react to anything alien other than with nukes and slang, as we've proven over and over we are capable of more and that.

 

I'm tired of the only differences between the races being mechanical ones - sure, we stuff a wiki full of all this lore and presumed prejudice, but for some reason it never really happens when you get in-game; I'm not sure what we even have alien whitelist pages for if the standard of play is essentially the same. This is the first I've heard of tajarans being presumed terrorists, and I've been playing for a long time - nobody ever mentions it in-game because there's really no difference in-game. Let's change that. Have a few high-profile events, or maybe just some news stories about some major "accidents" or terrorist attacks and start cutting aliens from job roles. That'll make far more conflict than an excerpt from a wiki that nobody reads.

I partially agree with this. Fictional racisim is a fun thing... unless you are a fucking furry. I'm marely saying that more options for other players is a good thing, not a bad one.

[CampinKiller]

There are a lot of the taj terrorist stories on the IC newscasters already. You just actually need to read them.

 

Yeah, but reading the same newscaster stories over and over is tiring.

Why not have it come up in the news posted on the forums, similar to the IPC things? (Not in outcome, but how it's actually noticed because it's posted on the forums).

[Gollee]

Soooo, basically this?

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=3173

If you wanted it updated, you could have said, instead of saying it isn't there at all. ¬_¬

[MagnificentMelkior]

Vaurca sec officers would really make a lot of people uncomfortable and I don't know if that's been addressed. Sec are, after all, at least partially a police force. For that reason I am in favor of banning them from security.

[CampinKiller]

Soooo, basically this?

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=3173

If you wanted it updated, you could have said, instead of saying it isn't there at all. ¬_¬

 

Sorry for not noticing something from over a month ago?

[LordFowl]

Vaurca sec officers would really make a lot of people uncomfortable and I don't know if that's been addressed. Sec are, after all, at least partially a police force. For that reason I am in favor of banning them from security.

 

1; The same argument can be made for literally any race, including humans if the company didn't happen to be humanrun.

2; The same argument can be made for literally every role. If Vaurca are banned from the security role for the reasons posited, the natural conclusion is that they should be banned from every role except some civilian roles.

[MagnificentMelkior]

Vaurca sec officers would really make a lot of people uncomfortable and I don't know if that's been addressed. Sec are, after all, at least partially a police force. For that reason I am in favor of banning them from security.

 

1; The same argument can be made for literally any race, including humans if the company didn't happen to be humanrun.

2; The same argument can be made for literally every role. If Vaurca are banned from the security role for the reasons posited, the natural conclusion is that they should be banned from every role except some civilian roles.

1; You're right that it could be made for unathi, and maybe taj, because they both have anatomical weapons, but taj claws aren't that threatening, and unathi are less scary and more well known than vaurca. Skrell are unthreatening in appearance and well known at this point.

2; A vaurca scientist, engineer, or civilian would not be an issue because those roles don't require out-group interaction to a significant degree, and most importantly, doesn't put people into situations where they are likely to be very afraid. A mandible bearing bug with a stun baton however would be a scary thing . With vaurca sec officers you are forcing people to be in violent or at least hostile situations, alone and isolated, with a nightmarish creature. People are going be traumatized by that.

And that brings us to medical. I can see people being scared to go under the knife with a vaurca. But at least in these situations they are supposed to help you and heal you. In any case nursing intern and chemist would be fine (psychologist I would be very dubious of: how is a totally alien creature going to do psychology for humans after less than a year of knowledge between the species?). I'd say medical doctor but not surgeon, but, they are really the same job with different focus so they have to be considered as one.

[SilverTalismen]

Vaurca sec officers would really make a lot of people uncomfortable and I don't know if that's been addressed. Sec are, after all, at least partially a police force. For that reason I am in favor of banning them from security.

 

1; The same argument can be made for literally any race, including humans if the company didn't happen to be humanrun.

2; The same argument can be made for literally every role. If Vaurca are banned from the security role for the reasons posited, the natural conclusion is that they should be banned from every role except some civilian roles.

1; You're right that it could be made for unathi, and maybe taj, because they both have anatomical weapons, but taj claws aren't that threatening, and unathi are less scary and more well known than vaurca. Skrell are unthreatening in appearance and well known at this point.

2; A vaurca scientist, engineer, or civilian would not be an issue because those roles don't require out-group interaction to a significant degree, and most importantly, doesn't put people into situations where they are likely to be very afraid. A mandible bearing bug with a stun baton however would be a scary thing . With vaurca sec officers you are forcing people to be in violent or at least hostile situations, alone and isolated, with a nightmarish creature. People are going be traumatized by that.

And that brings us to medical. I can see people being scared to go under the knife with a vaurca. But at least in these situations they are supposed to help you and heal you. In any case nursing intern and chemist would be fine (psychologist I would be very dubious of: how is a totally alien creature going to do psychology for humans after less than a year of knowledge between the species?). I'd say medical doctor but not surgeon, but, they are really the same job with different focus so they have to be considered as one.

 

During the Vaurca events, A vaurca drone ship that was interfaced with Aurora downloaded a MASSIVE quantity of data from Auroras database AND the extranet, exactly what they downloaded is unknown, But it is safe to assume they know more about human psychology to qualify for the job, even if its all textbook and perhaps out of date data they also know our research and engineering schematics as one of their hives, being obsessed with humanity already changed their ship designs to match humans showing they have schematics since its more than justchanging the exterior shape thats moving systems, power transmitters, electroics and hallways and pipes inorder to match humanitys design, Plus they more than likely got a fairly large chunk of human/skrell/unathi/tajaraan/Diona anatomy and medical research involving those species and viral and medical treatment data for things encountered in that sector and others nearby, They have a HUGE capacity for data, exhibited by the type CA' which stores thousands, if not MILLIONS of vaurca minds in their body in a unknown amount of VR's, And treat Vaurca being security officers as being probational sort of thing since the ones that have applies have shown in their backstory that their character has worked for it or thats their hives main focus is defense or military work, I would say the Central Command DO's are hesitant to hire Vaurca in security, but its a show of goodwill to the Vaurca, humanity is taking millions of their workers and more than likely getting them killed constantly due to neglect and poor order wording or workplace accidents that letting them work Security isn't that major of a thing to them

[Dreamix]

(...)

During the Vaurca events, A vaurca drone ship that was interfaced with Aurora downloaded a MASSIVE quantity of data from Auroras database AND the extranet, exactly what they downloaded is unknown, But it is safe to assume they know more about human psychology to qualify for the job, even if its all textbook and perhaps out of date data they also know our research and engineering schematics (...) Plus they more than likely got a fairly large chunk of human/skrell/unathi/tajaraan/Diona anatomy and medical research involving those species and viral and medical treatment data for things encountered in that sector and others nearby, They have a HUGE capacity for data, exhibited by the type CA' which stores thousands, if not MILLIONS of vaurca minds in their body in a unknown amount of VR's, And treat Vaurca being security officers as being probational sort of thing since the ones that have applies have shown in their backstory that their character has worked for it or thats their hives main focus is defense or military work, I would say the Central Command DO's are hesitant to hire Vaurca in security, but its a show of goodwill to the Vaurca, humanity is taking millions of their workers and more than likely getting them killed constantly due to neglect and poor order wording or workplace accidents that letting them work Security isn't that major of a thing to them

What the hell... Now, I really dislike Vaurca. Stealing data from NanoTrasen? Sensitive information, employment and private records, research schematics? All NanoTrasen's swindles, monkey businesses, shady stuff, possibly illegal disposing of inconvenient people? Totally not a crime and NanoTrasen thinks it's okay. Hiring Vaurca just because they're the new specie? Ignoring how bound are really stupid and useless? If I'm reading correctly, Vaurca aren't even numbered or named, no one knows how many of them there's out there. Governments obviously really like this, yeah. What is this, forced integration? Forcefully and unnaturally inserting/putting/sticking these bugs everywhere, with quite poor reasoning, "hand waving".

And it's just from the OOC standpoint. What about IC relations, it's been just a year. Vaurca should still be studied and diplomats should only be establishing trade routes and treaties. There shouldn't be mass-employments. What about societies, countries and alliances? Other races are accepting Vaurca, just because? What about specieism/racism, everyone seems to be pro-Vaurca? I wonder how this haven't ended with a war.

I'd be in favor of banning Vaurca from head and security jobs, at least. Or just deleting Vaurca and releasing them again with better and more reasonable lore. But, that's just me.

[LordFowl]

Banning any race from any position based solely off of lore considerations is to me an even bigger no-no. Constricting what a player can play as is not something you should do willy-nilly, and it's not the path that this server has followed in the past. Establishing a new precedent here only opens a can of worms that I am sure people will start enjoying less and less when it becomes more widespread.

[Dreamix]

(...)

The lore can be changed, no?