Cryogenic Storage for Prisoners

[Nikov]

Goofus Antag is a play-to-win murderboning death machine who evades all attempts to detain him and leaves splattered brains in his wake. He gets to enjoy a full round of freedom, suspense, action and carnage, so long as he doesn't break an OOC rule.

Gallant Antag is a play-to-roleplay antagonist who pulls his punches and leaves clues to create an interesting mystery for the other roleplayers, but then gets caught. He gets to enjoy the inside of the brig for two hours. Gotta punish those criminals! Hardcore RP!

There's a bit of dissonance here as desired behavior is punished. The antagonist who avoids capture and plays to win has fun, but the antagonist who plays for the benefit of others gets punished. Now, when you do the crime you do the time, but should an antagonist be arrested why not let them bow out, exit stage left, and return as another character?

Adding a cryogenic storage pod to the communal brig, or holding-cell cold-storage, would let players give up their characters without resorting to suicide or SSD disconnections. Furthermore, an antagonist can be granted an immediate respawn time, following a petition to the powers that be, so he can return as a non-antagonist and resume roleplaying. We want to reward good sportsmanship, and this certainly encourages it.

For that matter, any player in the brig who is willing to sit out for thirty minutes can just climb into the pods and come back as another character. This is almost always more punishment than a sentence, so it is far from a loophole to avoid consequences.

[FinalVerdict3]

Sounds like a good idea, and I like it. Sounds like a plan almost.

Almost.. so why? Well, it makes being an Antag a moot point now. Got caught being a ling? Well, shit. Better climb in that pod and come back to roleplay. It seems like you're suggesting Antags get punished for the benefit of others and this is where I disagree. Would you be willing to explore more on the subject of an Antag who 'plays fair' so to speak? I find it ridiculous that the Antag who is supposed to bring a challenge and new scenario to others gets to leave in such a fashion. In my view, it's actually punishing them. You're suspending them of their role as an Antag for what could potientally be, quarter of the round. Half the round is extended mode basically.

So why do I think it's punishing them? Because they're not the issue and this suggestion, in my opinion, tackles the Antag. Unless ofcourse I've got this wrong but I feel it isn't the Antags who need to change particulary, it's the Security members. Yeah, yeah. Might get bored of hearing it but it's the truth; Security has a nasty habit of securing a prisoner so well that they never get a chance to break out. No one engages with the prisoner, no one speaks to them, no one gives them the time of day. If anything, I would assume Sec needs a little shove in the direction to start engaging more with the prisoners. And the reason why I bring up Sec and all is because it seems that if they were to engage more with prisoners we wouldn't have this issue. So far it seems like "welp, stunbaton you, cuff, drag, click click click click, click & hold. Dunk you onto the bed and out the door I go." that's my take on this. Though this has been said iirc for a long time and if what I said doesn't work then I'm all for implementing this idea.

Another thing I wanted to ask; how will you stop the bad, sore-loser Antag who will climb into that cryo, come back as a new character to just murderbone their capturor? Keep in mind, once their character is removed from Cryo that slot opens up. They might come back as the same role but under a different name, it isn't hard to do and nobody would suspect it as obvious as it may seem. Can you provide a brief explaination of something like this being detected or halted?

[Alberyk]

Another thing I wanted to ask; how will you stop the bad, sore-loser Antag who will climb into that cryo, come back as a new character to just murderbone their capturor? Keep in mind, once their character is removed from Cryo that slot opens up. They might come back as the same role but under a different name, it isn't hard to do and nobody would suspect it as obvious as it may seem. Can you provide a brief explaination of something like this being detected or halted?

 

Metagrudge is against the rules, staff can clearly see the ckeys of everyone, in their logs, and etc. So, if respawn and straight go murder security because they ruined your antag day, that is against the rules and we will probably caught it if reported or anyone is around paying attention.

[FinalVerdict3]

Metagrudge is against the rules, staff can clearly see the ckeys of everyone, in their logs, and etc. So, if respawn and straight go murder security because they ruined your antag day, that is against the rules and we will probably caught it if reported or anyone is around paying attention.

 

Fantastic! That is reassuring. But, it is still something that I'm slightly afriad of happening frequently because of this.

[Guest]

As always say, multiple options is a good thing. It's always a good thing. Whatever potentially bad consequence you think this might have, having options is still preferable.

[Guest]

Firstly the mapping of sec is horrible. The communal brig is too small with a lackluster of options to escape. The warden isn't watching prisoners because cam2cam with Ian's wife. The warden's office being where it is doesn't help. The bay map you'll be using with code update has a better brig and cryo/beds. The new Aurora map security has cryo but no beds. I couldn't fit them in because space restrictions.

Will it be abused? Yes, obviously. Especially when its first released to players. That's the natural order of things. Eventually they will get the hang of it's a shit thing to do. You can't really change that unless you make a change to the community. Which is a headache let me tell you.

Should we have it? Yes. Why? Because Long quiet rounds are not fun when you're Alone in the Brig: The Briganing. It shouldn't really be used in active and progressing rounds. It's just something you, the players, need to understand and do. Nothing else can be done about that.

Also the current Shitcurity (something I rarely use) needs to change. Like holy shit wtf happened. Half the stuff they do is bad rp and bannable. I'm going to start taking action ICly and OOCly against those characters/players because that is /not/ how sec should be. Too many headaches were had in the past to make sec not like this.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Guest

[Zundy]

This was discussed before and shat on from a great height by quite a few people (SUSAAAAAN!!!) so brace for that. The general consensus from most was "get gud, the brig is punishment you unrobust fuck".

I totally agree with this though (having cryo or at least having something to do) as I did before.

[Guest Menown]

Either this, or work camp. I want work camp. TG style, where you redeem ore for points so you can lean/brutally murder the other prisoners with a pickaxe.

[Nikov]

The general consensus from most was "get gud, the brig is punishment you unrobust fuck".

 

Congratulations, you're the antagonist! Here's your objective; make the round fun for people and don't be a dick. What's that? You got arrested and are now in the brig because you didn't cover your tracks, stab eyes out with a screwdriver and set a plasma fire in Departures? Well get good you scrublord! What do you mean, "we told you to be an antagonist?" What do you mean, "I wasn't playing to win?" Enjoy holding until transfer in a straightjacket you crybaby! And if you SSD to avoid punishment, we're having a little chat later!

Yeah, its pretty demented.

[UnknownMurder]

The fact I'm only little worried is the abuse of Cyrotube. The prisoner or prisoners could tend to hide in Cyrotube until an appropriate time to escape. Other words, a hiding spot.

Also, entering prisoner Cyrotube and coming out of station Cyrotube as same character.

Just some sharp [points might want to cover over.

[Alberyk]

Also, entering prisoner Cyrotube and coming out of station Cyrotube as same character.

 

There is already an instruction for players to join with another character when using the spawn feature, besides staff will deal with them if they do so.

[Guest]

The fact I'm only little worried is the abuse of Cyrotube. The prisoner or prisoners could tend to hide in Cyrotube until an appropriate time to escape. Other words, a hiding spot.

 

I don't see an issue with that but since cryo tubes are an OOC thing, that'll be under the jurisdiction of Admino Moduretaro staff. The reason I don't see an issue with it is because there are some hiding spots in communal brig on the new map. Nothing obvious though. (Unless you're clever and know some stuff).

In terms of making work camps and stuff. That could possibly work on the new map because super asteroid; have fun working your way out of a super asteroid. It may need to be something that needs to be discussed possibly by development staff because mining, currently, isn't really all that rp rewarding? (Not mining itself but the new map will have things D: )

Whilst I've designed the communal brig to not be "Get rekt you're staying here forever, might aswell rage quit." Having some things put in place to keep things moving for people would be nice. It'll probably help against cryo abuse.

[FinalVerdict3]

Whilst I've designed the communal brig to not be "Get rekt you're staying here forever, might aswell rage quit."

 

In all fairness you actually did. Unless there's an Engineer who is willing to act fast to pull the window out of the frame, even then the AI might set the grill /on/ which then makes the escape moot. Is there actually even a way to escape? All my time spending in the Brig, I rarely escaped because.. well.. there's not really an escape.. Or is that why the games arcade is there, so you can get a toy and bash my way out?

Oh shit, so that's why the arcade is hard, heh.

So when someone abuses the Cryotube, they're going to get punished, right? And are Admins willing to always deal with this issue (afaik the other Cryotubes aren't abused) because if they're not then this idea is already dead from the start.

[Lord Lag]

I could totally get behind something like this. Most of the ways it can be abused are already covered in the rules anyway.

[Vanagandr]

Whilst I've designed the communal brig to not be "Get rekt you're staying here forever, might aswell rage quit."

 

In all fairness you actually did. Unless there's an Engineer who is willing to act fast to pull the window out of the frame, even then the AI might set the grill /on/ which then makes the escape moot. Is there actually even a way to escape? All my time spending in the Brig, I rarely escaped because.. well.. there's not really an escape.. Or is that why the games arcade is there, so you can get a toy and bash my way out?

Preparation.

Compression implant + toolbelt is a classic; you can compress and inject anything up to and including the size of a backpack.

If you know the wires and have a screwdriver, multitool and crowbar, you can get out through the infirmary in about ten, fifteen seconds.

If you got in before and 'fixed' the circuit boards in the infirmary airlocks, you can just walk right out.

If you have DEM YELLOWS, you can unscrew the grille and windows; even without smuggled tools, you can later shift them out of the way and run out in moments.

If you have an accomplice - yeah, right.

If you can get a few moments unsupervised- as a Janitor, say, here to fix the lights or clean -you can swipe a few Donk-Pockets and paper cups and replace them with tools.

If you're truly stupid desperate, you can pick up a stool and try and smash your way out, but even the most careless sec staff will pick up on that pretty quick.

Presuming you got put in Communal. If you're not in Communal it's smuggled tools or GG.

Unless, of course, you emagged a borg or subverted the AI - in which case you'll be free the instant Security are out of view.

[Guest]

blub blub blub words

 

Either I didn't make it clear enough or you misunderstood what I said.

Let's play a game of clarification:

- I did not design the current brig we have.

- I did not design the current security we have.

- I do dislike the current security and the current brig.

- I am designing the new security for the new map.

Comprendo? Comprendo.

The current brig and security is extremely flawed in design and doesn't even really look good. There's no flow to it and it just seems overly compact. Like compact is good but DAUYM! This is not how you do compact. Is the current brig/sec going to be fixed? Probably not. It's probably not worth the effort and would require a re-design of security. I'm not up for breaking my map files and re-doing them like on the new map ;-;

Now that we've finally understood that Pump did not design the horrible mess of security you currently have. The new brig will have cryo. It's a bad idea to enforce an unneeded rule of prisoners can't use cryo. People who abuse it will be slapped. Using cryo to escape doesn't make you look cool, it just shows how much of a terrible person you are. You should feel bad for using cryo to escape.

Don't worry I'll add a singularity in the communal brig then nobody can escape.

[MagnificentMelkior]

Wheras:

Cryotubes are an ICly discussed and accepted fact, and everyone's character can be expected to think of them as real objects.

Why would there be a rule against using them to escape? The prisoner cryotubes should be put in a secure location to prevent that from happening by whatever prison architect put in plans for them. If you wait inside the tube for someone to walk by and pop out and robust them, well, good job! That's how I see it anyway.

[Guest]

The prisoner cryotubes should be put in a secure location to prevent that from happening by whatever prison architect put in plans for them. If you wait inside the tube for someone to walk by and pop out and robust them, well, good job! That's how I see it anyway.

 

I was actually thinking over this whilst studying today. I'm thinking of looking at playing with ID tags to set something up. It won't be something restrictive but I'm going to try and see if I can include some OOC factor into it. That way it will prevent people from abusing cryo because they (should) have acknowledged the terms that will be integrated in the system I have planned.

Basically they can use cryo but if they don't have a good reason then rek by hammer?

[Zundy]

The prisoner cryotubes should be put in a secure location to prevent that from happening by whatever prison architect put in plans for them. If you wait inside the tube for someone to walk by and pop out and robust them, well, good job! That's how I see it anyway.

 

I was actually thinking over this whilst studying today. I'm thinking of looking at playing with ID tags to set something up. It won't be something restrictive but I'm going to try and see if I can include some OOC factor into it. That way it will prevent people from abusing cryo because they (should) have acknowledged the terms that will be integrated in the system I have planned.

Basically they can use cryo but if they don't have a good reason then rek by hammer?

 

Surely cryo tubes behind glass security doors will do the trick?

[Guest]

If you wait inside the tube for someone to walk by and pop out and robust them, well, good job!

 

Equivalent to hiding in a disposal unit to hide from security. It's shitty as fuck.

[Guest]

Surely cryo tubes behind glass security doors will do the trick?

 

Yes and no. Having prisoner cryo as something security control is a bad move, due to many reasons that I really don't need to go through. It should be obvious. The entire point of Cryo (whilst it has IC reasoning that essentially just backs up OOC let's be honest) is for OOC reasons to leave the round as that character/leave the game. An OOC mechanic like cryo should not be affected by non-administrative means.

[Zundy]

Surely cryo tubes behind glass security doors will do the trick?

 

Yes and no. Having prisoner cryo as something security control is a bad move, due to many reasons that I really don't need to go through. It should be obvious. The entire point of Cryo (whilst it has IC reasoning that essentially just backs up OOC let's be honest) is for OOC reasons to leave the round as that character/leave the game. An OOC mechanic like cryo should not be affected by non-administrative means.

 

Could make it so only mods have access to it and you'd need to ahelp to get access? So prisoner can ask a mod to cryo.

[witchbells]

Surely cryo tubes behind glass security doors will do the trick?

 

Yes and no. Having prisoner cryo as something security control is a bad move, due to many reasons that I really don't need to go through. It should be obvious. The entire point of Cryo (whilst it has IC reasoning that essentially just backs up OOC let's be honest) is for OOC reasons to leave the round as that character/leave the game. An OOC mechanic like cryo should not be affected by non-administrative means.

 

Could make it so only mods have access to it and you'd need to ahelp to get access? So prisoner can ask a mod to cryo.

 

But that's dumb. Regular players don't have to ahelp to cryo, as they shouldn't, and prisoners shouldn't need to either. Cryogenic storage is primarily an OOC function players use when they have other obligations compared to the game or simply no longer want to play. On that note, there are some hours where there are no staff on at all.

[Zundy]

Could make it so only mods have access to it and you'd need to ahelp to get access? So prisoner can ask a mod to cryo.

 

But that's dumb. Regular players don't have to ahelp to cryo, as they shouldn't, and prisoners shouldn't need to either. Cryogenic storage is primarily an OOC function players use when they have other obligations compared to the game or simply no longer want to play. On that note, there are some hours where there are no staff on at all.

 

I guess just have them in the communal brig then? The issue then is if you're in solitary you won't have access to them?

[Guest]

I guess just have them in the communal brig then? The issue then is if you're in solitary you won't have access to them?

 

Solitary is something completely different. You're not meant to be able to leave it. If security use it abuse Solitary then that's their fault.