Renaming/Alt Title Officers-Guards

[Guest]

So, this is came to me while I was playing another server when Aurora was at a significantly low population one morning.

They had an alt-title for their Officers, which was Security Guard, and I feel as if Security Guard makes a lot more sense to have our Officers named.

Here are my points.

Our 'Officers' are not legitimate Officers, they do not enforce Sol Alliance Law as legal Sol Alliance Officers. Giving them the name Security Officers makes some people have the 'AI AM THE LAW AND YOU WILL FEEL MY BATON OF JUSTICE' mentality.

More on that point, they are a private corporation security team, like a Mall-Cop almost, just with guns and batons and no segways. They are legitimate Security Guards.

It would be relatively easy to either add an Alt title and/or rename Officers to Guards completely to my knowledge, although a Dev can correct if I'm wrong.

I just think it would make more IC and lore sense to have it like this. Of course, all the Officer uniforms and such will need to be renamed.

[Skull132]

Our 'Officers' are not legitimate Officers, they do not enforce Sol Alliance Law as legal Sol Alliance Officers. Giving them the name Security Officers makes some people have the 'AI AM THE LAW AND YOU WILL FEEL MY BATON OF JUSTICE' mentality.

 

You're missing a word here. The word "Officer" on its own does not imply much, and it usually needs to be attached to another word in order to describe what officer you are dealing with. In this case, we are very specifically dealing with [Private] Security Officers, or Officers, as members of a private security force. (Case and point: the US Navy has 4 types of "officers": Petty Officers, Chief Petty Officers, Warrant Officers and commissioned officers. To say, "Officer," would be to refer to the latter most, usually.)

And I don't think a name can enforce a mentality like this.

Adding the alternate title is fine, ish (minus an issue with standardization, that I need to ponder on when it's not 0255hrs local). But the reason presented for it feels a bit lackluster.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Rusty's primary job is night watchman. Always either called the night guard or the watchman. Never once been called an officer, so Xander may have point here.

[Tainavaa]

In favor of Xander, Skull, his post alone helps him prove his point. He himself had a preconceived notion that an Officer had a lot of authority, more so than the average person. While I agree it is entirely accurate to call them Officers (and sounds much better IMO), the guard title instills the idea that they're protectors. NOT authority figures, as most commonly known officers are - such as that in the navy. All ranks of officer hold more authority than the normal enlisted; that goes for Non-Commissioned Officers as well. I think that's where the mentality comes from. Its fallacious, even.

[Davidchan]

I generally agree that the Title should be changed. Officer has much more air of authority to it, even with Skull's NCO examples (of Navy ranks no less... swabies,) the title is an earned promotion, not something you automatically get for signing up. Actual Officers would be leaders in Security, though since we rarely have more than a Dozen folks in Sec anyways, there is no reason to set roles to designate the guards higher then what they are, private guards hired to protect the investment of the station and keep things running smoothly. They have NO authority outside of enforcing Corporate Regulations.

[Valkrae]

I am for staying with the current situation. They are Officers of the NT Security Forces.

[Jakers457]

We seem to be confused as to what the Officer part of name entails. So let's think about the term 'Police Officer' and let's think real hard about it. In the police force, they have ranks similar to that of the military and they are called 'Police Officers' because they are Officers of that policing force, got it? The term Officer does not mean 'Cops!' it is merely an identification group for ranking members within a department.

Besides, they are less Security Guards than they are Security Officers. Security Guards are to guard or protect an item/business/VIP and so forth while the Security Officers on our station are there to act as peacekeepers, which is more akin to that of a policing force. So I don't think we need the unnecessary change.

[Tainavaa]

I'm not confused at all. I agreed that it's an accurate title but that doesn't mean people get the idea that they're authority figures simply because of the title. Not to mention I do believe that security are reminded that they aren't cops.

[SgtSammac]

To be fair, from my position, to a small degree they are cops.

If you look at the updated "space law" it is now the "Corporate Regulations" and some of the co-incide with "SolGov" (In our case Sol Alliance) law, and are required to be reported from station to SolGov (Sol Alliance) so to a certain degree, they are enforcing the law, but for the bigger picture their job is indeed to be mallcops/security guards, but they are still enforcing a set of rules/regulations/laws, so personally I actually think the Officer title is possibly for the best.

But all in all I am on the fence with this idea.

But I also want to propose another reasoning into the pool, in real life a Security GUARD can have a Police OFFICER with them in 5-20 minutes if a criminal is around. In space, on this station, it would take quite a bit longer for full officers of the law to be with us, the best we can get is the paramilitary ERT teams for prisoner transfers, but in that time the station security still need to secure, process and control the suspects, our security staff are also authorized to enforce punishments per the Corporate Regulations and Sol Alliance law, making them more Officers than Guards. At least, in my opinion that is.

Thank you for reading.

[Guest]

To be fair, from my position, to a small degree they are cops.

If you look at the updated "space law" it is now the "Corporate Regulations" and some of the co-incide with "SolGov" (In our case Sol Alliance) law, and are required to be reported from station to SolGov (Sol Alliance) so to a certain degree, they are enforcing the law, but for the bigger picture their job is indeed to be mallcops/security guards, but they are still enforcing a set of rules/regulations/laws, so personally I actually think the Officer title is possibly for the best.

But all in all I am on the fence with this idea.

But I also want to propose another reasoning into the pool, in real life a Security GUARD can have a Police OFFICER with them in 5-20 minutes if a criminal is around. In space, on this station, it would take quite a bit longer for full officers of the law to be with us, the best we can get is the paramilitary ERT teams for prisoner transfers, but in that time the station security still need to secure, process and control the suspects, our security staff are also authorized to enforce punishments per the Corporate Regulations and Sol Alliance law, making them more Officers than Guards. At least, in my opinion that is.

Thank you for reading.

 

See, you have some good points, but at any point a SolGov law is violated, all security is doing is HOLDING the prisoner until they can be handed to SolGov authorities to be sent to the prison, they are legitimately only people who have been given equipment to invoke their 'Civilian Arrest' rights.

And since NanoTrasen works on a shift basis instead living on-station 24/7, any 'Officer' that leaves their station to go back to Central, or any planet/station in Sol, loses all their authority, they are merely a Security staff member of NanoTrasen Stations, they do not enforce law. They ensure regulations are followed, and if the law or regulations are breached, they hold that person. They are not a police station or a prison, every cell, including perma is a temporary holding facility. Like a brig on a IRL boat. Someone misbehaving would be held there, until the ship can dock and the REAL Officers can handle the situation.

[Valkrae]

The reason they are holding them while a Sol Government Official comes to pick them up is because any crimes that require Sol Gov. require a permanent holding area.

The Sol Alliance has most of the permanent holding stations under their control.

[Guest]

NanoTrasen wouldn't have any permanent holding areas, they are a company, they wouldn't want to waste the money taking care of prisoners, even the NMSS Odin cells are only temporary. I'm just saying, anywhere off their assigned space station, a Sec Officer has literally NO authority. They are not given a permanent badge, they aren't given a uniform to keep, they don't get to keep their IDs, they don't even get a duty pistol.

They are a company Security Team that is there to GUARD the station, not police it, they are there to protect NanoTrasen's assets, and temporarily HOLD anyone who threatens the station.

I don't care if they get renamed, but I still would like the alt-title. Because NanoTrasen is not a government, at least not in Tau Ceti. Now, if NanoTrasen used a paramilitary as their Security Force instead of their actual military, than I could understand calling them Officers. But they are just men in red jumpsuits with batons and cuffs.

[Serveris]

Maybe refluffing security themselves would be in order? Some fair points have been made here, staging solid arguments from both sides.

Last I checked from our lore, Nanotrasen held significant influence within the Alliance, due to their substantial financial backing up its Navy and political agenda, enough authority to the point where Sol allows them to, 'commission,' (See: constructing their own cruisers, repurposing Alliance battlecraft to serve in their navy, complete with re-designating them as, 'Nanotrasen Military x,'((NMV Icarus)) spacecraft originally belonging to the Alliance.

With this reputable amount of political power in mind, I would imagine Nanotrasen might be able to, 'convince' the Alliance Senate to recognize its paramilitary/security as modern day 'Sky Marshals.'

(http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_marshal)

Now, what proposed effects this would have, I'm not entirely sure. Maybe refluff the security force to having some sort of connection to the Sol Police Force? A subsidiary law enforcement detachment, perhaps, that Sol had allowed NT to commission in enforcing its corporate regulations, but also holding obligations to the Alliance itself? This could leave security as still being referred to as, 'officers,' I believe. Currently, on baystation 12's most recent code, fax machines are able to send messages to a Sol Police Official/Representative, in addition to central command.

I'm not sure how you folks will feel about deviating from the current, 'absolute loyalty to NT and its corporate regulations,' that we commonly see in security, but seeing as how a good deal of you are looking for some form of change, maybe someone can provide constructive input, or build off this suggestion somehow.

[Valkrae]

They still enforce the law, Xander. They enforce Corporate Regulations AS WELL AS Sol Government Law. They may not be able to hold them permanently on station, but NT /does/ have prison stations. I point you to the NSS Centaurus, A prison station based in the Tau Ceti system. So, yes. NanoTrasen has permanent prison settings.

You state things as if NT has no power on the outside world, which is a colossal lie. The Tau Ceti system is a free-trade zone, which means that the Corporation that resides there has tremendous power. Many of the Security Officers on station actually /double/ as Private detectives, Cops, or other law enforcement agents while they are off station.

Security Guard seems more that they are guarding something. Which, to a point, they are. However, the main job of the Security force is to prevent the breaking of corporate regs, and make sure that no one kills one another on station. They may guard the station in terms of crises, yes. That is not their whole job description.

It seems as if Severis has a good point, with the Sky Marshal shenanigan.

[Jboy2000000]

I don't mind if people want to be called a Security Officer, but Id love it if security got Alt titles for those who want to be "Guards" specifically.

[Guest]

Can I bring this up again? Alt-title plox :3