Should I add Optimal Chemistry Recipes to the Chemistry Wiki Page?

[Nanako]

I'm currently undertaking a large scale project to overhaul the Guide to Chemistry wiki page, you can check out my work so far over here: https://aurorastation.org/wiki/index.php?title=Guide_to_Chemistry

I got approval from Senpai Jackboot to add an Optimal Recipe section. How this would work is, for every finished product, the optimal recipe section would give exact instructions on how to make either a 120u beaker (if possible) or a 60u bottle of that finished product, starting from scratch and including all intermediary steps.

For example, the instructions for Peridaxon would be:

Makes 60u

--------------

put 5 phoron in a large beaker with the dropper

add 20 oxygen, to make 10u dexalin

add 10u water and 10u oxygen, to make 30u cryoxadone

add 30u sodium, to make 60u clonexadone

In a seperate small beaker, add 10u sugar, 10u oxygen, and 40u carbon, to make 60u bicardine

Set the transfer amount of the seperate beaker to 30, and pour it into the Clonexadone beaker until the small beaker is empty.

Use the Chemmaster to seperate off the peridaxon into a bottle, and pour the remaining 1u phoron back into your phoron supply

I've started on this feature, but skull has told me he doesn't like it. He thinks that it will teach people to just follow the instructions and not learn. He's made it clear though that this is just his personal input, not an admin overruling.

Personally, i believe having exact guides, especially to the more complex chemicals, will help newbie chemists get aquainted and be more competent. It would also serve as an RP aid, for those who are trying to RP a 40-year old chemist with a masters degree, who should reasonably know everything about his craft, even if the player might not.

In addition, following exact instructions was how i got started with a lot of mechanics in the game. once you get familiar with a tried and tested way of doing things, then you can relax, experiment, and learn more.

but maybe it's too much spoonfeeding, or makes things too easy. I don't know. I want your input.

Vote upstairs.

when on the page, it looks something like this: (see the optimal recipe section on the bottom of the card)

 

Background colour is still not set in stone, fiddling with what looks best. It does add a significant amount of height to a compound's info, and that's something to take into account too

Should i add this system or not? Please cast your votes

[Arrow768]

It´s a mixed bag.

I say yes for the very basic stuff like bic, kelo, dex (not dex plus) but no for everything else.

There needs to be a learning curve and it shouldnt be just "I am a good chemist as long as the wiki is available".

And I think it would remove a lot of RP between two chemists trying to find the "best" way to quickly make a advanced medicine

Edited May 1, 2016 by Guest

[Skull132]

My line of thinking is, as an instructor, I want to spoonfeed as little as possible. I want to give the person I'm instructing the tools to solve the problem, and perhaps an example or two, but the rest they have to figure out on their own with the tools I've given them. Also because it removes the learning curve and other stuff that Arrow mentioned.

Arrow's proposal sounds like a great compromise, actually.

[Nanako]

I have some counterpoints though.

First of all, synthetics. AIs, cyborgs, IPCs. Being machines they have an internal database that they can consult which gives an RP justification for reading the wiki. IT's also kind of out of character for them to make mistakes or do things inefficiently. There's been a couple of cases where the AI helped me make chemicals in medical, while i just played dumb helper by moving bottles around on command. an AI is expected to know everything and more complete guides help them fill that role.

Another thing is learning. I've seen many chemists make mistakes, like wasting a ton of phoron when making peridaxon. Or when i play janitor and ask for a couple of bottles of ammonia, i often get one 60u bottle and one 30u bottle, because the recipe makes 3 units instead of 4 and you end up with 25% less than expected if you don't compensate for that. I think there's chemists, maybe even regular players, who aren't aware of a lot of the niggling eccentricities of the system. Exact guides can show them better ways to do things, and in the process make them aware that there ARE better ways, encouraging farther exploration. My Peridaxon recipe up there uses a couple of neat tricks, like pre-calculating the required amount of phoron in the first step, and reusing the same catalyst repeatedly across multiple steps of the process

[CakeIsOssim]

Only bound AI should have knowledge of absolutely everything available to the station. An IPC having so would be powergaming and metagaming.

I also agree with Skull. Not everything has to be spoonfed, even if it makes things more efficient. If they really want to learn and improve, have them learn from other people in game. Either in character or out of character. Doesn't really matter.

[DatBerry]

I have some counterpoints though.

First of all, synthetics. AIs, cyborgs, IPCs. Being machines they have an internal database that they can consult which gives an RP justification for reading the wiki. IT's also kind of out of character for them to make mistakes or do things inefficiently. There's been a couple of cases where the AI helped me make chemicals in medical, while i just played dumb helper by moving bottles around on command. an AI is expected to know everything and more complete guides help them fill that role.

Another thing is learning. I've seen many chemists make mistakes, like wasting a ton of phoron when making peridaxon. Or when i play janitor and ask for a couple of bottles of ammonia, i often get one 60u bottle and one 30u bottle, because the recipe makes 3 units instead of 4 and you end up with 25% less than expected if you don't compensate for that. I think there's chemists, maybe even regular players, who aren't aware of a lot of the niggling eccentricities of the system. Exact guides can show them better ways to do things, and in the process make them aware that there ARE better ways, encouraging farther exploration. My Peridaxon recipe up there uses a couple of neat tricks, like pre-calculating the required amount of phoron in the first step, and reusing the same catalyst repeatedly across multiple steps of the process

 

If we had perfect recipes ICly why do we have the chemist job? Why not just put a machine that mixes the chemical you choose and vend it in a bottle?

[Nanako]

If we had perfect recipes ICly why do we have the chemist job? Why not just put a machine that mixes the chemical you choose and vend it in a bottle?

 

Well we do, that's what the chem dispenser is.

We have a chemist for creativity, to mix things up and create interesting concoctions. Telling people how to make peridaxon wouldn't take that away, it'd just let them move onto the fun stuff faster, like grenades and custom pills and cryo mixes

[Loow]

No.

[Guest]

Don't spoonfeed. The wiki is to give as much information as necessary in order to be able to play the game and/or their role, but not any more than what is necessary to go above that without the player deciding themselves to improve on some aspects in regards to their gameplay. Let people figure out optimal chem recipes by themselves. The math of it isn't too hard anyway.

[MagnificentMelkior]

I think this would clutter up the wiki for no benefit. Its spoonfeeding, as others have said, but also the chemistry page has all the info you need to make any chemical listed there. After you learn about catalysts, which the page describes, you can pretty simply make all listed chemicals from what it says already.

[Lucychan42]

I think the absolute basics should be given, but any advanced combinations should be learned on their own for optimal optimization.

With the basic recipes on the wiki, people can learn how to start thinking in terms of optimization. It's quite easy to just start lumping in reagents until you finally make it, but if a few basic optimal recipes are listed then not only can they be made easily, but now new chemists know how to start thinking in terms of optimization.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

If we do have this in addition to the basic guide, I'd prefer it if it was an additional page that was linked to. A basic guide AND an optimal guide would be a bit of a lot of information for a single page.

[Skull132]

Or as a player guide. Because, your approach probably is not the ultimate one.

[Nanako]

And the poll is over. Final results,

36% For

64% Against.

By majority decision, this feature will not be implemented. Thanks for your input, everyone who voted!