Staff complaint - AimlessAnalyst

[Bedshaped]

BYOND Key: Bedshaped

Staff BYOND Key: AimlessAnalyst

Reason for complaint:

Permabanned me for "stabbing" myself with a pen (it doesn't do actual damage, just pops up a low font size message). Then refused my IC explaination that I am trying to do a small bit of damage for someone to notice on suit sensors and come interact with me in order to deal with my illegal brigging.

Evidence/logs/etc:

I'll let him provide the logs since I was permabanned after leaving.

Additional remarks:

On his part, it's 100% him picking on someone he doesn't like. I was in a solitary cell, nobody could see me, nobody could hear me (no radio) and even though I was talking to a completely different member of staff (Alberyk), he freezes and bwoinks me within a few seconds of the message.

[UnknownMurder]

I was present... Attack Logs were being spammed consistently.

[Bedshaped]

It's not an attack log because it's not an attack. I addressed this in my post.

Can you post the logs please?

[LordRaven001]

I was also present, You repetitively stabbed yourself with a pen, I will get the logs.

[Jennalele]

One:

 

It definitely did generate logs. There they are, dear.

Two, you've had a history of pretty shaky roleplay. You've had multiple warnings, notes, conversations, yet you continue to struggle with very simple rules. When you logged out on me during contact, you broke yet another rule, and given your history? Yes, you were most definitely banned. You are expected to play a sane, well-rounded character here. Said sane, well-rounded character isn't going to start stabbing a pen into their chest because they've been sitting in a cell for ~10 minutes. They aren't going to stab themselves if they were in there for an hour. Two hours. You're at work, for cripes sakes, its not like its a thirty year sentence for homicide. Not to mention, your explanation was all over the place. First, you tried to tell me that it didn't even do any harm, so it should be allowed. A minute later, you told me that "Someone would be watching the crew monitoring computer, and realize someone was hurt, then come looking," which contradicts "lol, it does no damage." ...Not to mention, you straight up shouldn't be stabbing yourself at work because you got in trouble, mate.

[Kaed]

As someone who was in this round as (malf) AI, I can attest that this wasn't his only spam offense. He consistently spammed long, dumb jokes into the common channel, later circumventing his resulting radio injunction by using station intercoms, and basically behaved like a non-erotic version of a WGW radio-griefer. His brigging was not unjustified, and was the result of a long series of escalation points.

[Bedshaped]

As someone who was in this round as (malf) AI, I can attest that this wasn't his only spam offense. He consistently spammed long, dumb jokes into the common channel, later circumventing his resulting radio injunction by using station intercoms, and basically behaved like a non-erotic version of a WGW radio-griefer. His brigging was not unjustified, and was the result of a long series of escalation points.

 

Hi. Can you please leave? You obviously have no idea which character I was playing as and your involvement here is pointless and serves no function.

 

Only post if involved. If you are not a moderator or administrator and were not involved in the incident(s) referred to, you may not post or reply to a staff complaint regarding said incident(s). It is permissible, however, to provide testimony regarding a staff member's behavior backed by proof, in the form of screenshots or logs.

[Bedshaped]

One:

 

It definitely did generate logs. There they are, dear.

 

Can you please justify your admin involvement for me regarding the two points I made here:

 

... (it doesn't do actual damage, just pops up a low font size message) ...

... I was in a solitary cell, nobody could see me, nobody could hear me (no radio) ...

 

This reeks to me of utter pedantry, excessive punishment, admin babysitting and someone who has a real gripe with someone and no real basis to take out their frustrations.

 

When you logged out on me during contact, you broke yet another rule, and given your history? Yes, you were most definitely banned.

 

I actually logged out with you to come straight here and post a complaint, I didn't expect you would permaban me for such a trivial offence.

Could you also justify why someone with a few minor warnings could go straight from that to a permaban? I have never murdered anyone while non-antag, all of my infraction have been for badly IC combat and all have remained non-lethal. I don't run around as a grey baldie toolboxing people to death and I'm always willing to hash it out with the admins when I get bwoinked.

[pickled_tomato]

As someone who was in this round as (malf) AI, I can attest that this wasn't his only spam offense. He consistently spammed long, dumb jokes into the common channel, later circumventing his resulting radio injunction by using station intercoms, and basically behaved like a non-erotic version of a WGW radio-griefer. His brigging was not unjustified, and was the result of a long series of escalation points.

 

I'm afraid you're mixing up his character with someone else. I was for the most part doing the warden's job that round (as a security officer). Different character, not his.

Edit: Side note: That round seemed to be very complaint heavy looking back at it.

[pickled_tomato]

I'd also like to say a few things that are on my mind about this whole thing. If this is against the board rules then please remove it.

1. This sort of post would be better received as an unban request. As of right now it's doing more harm than good making a direct complaint towards AimlessAnalyst.

2. This was an IC mistake. We all understand this. There's a lot of little things littered throughout this whole incident that are interesting. Barnes was permabanned for stabbing himself with a pen and he gave a reasonable (at least to me) explanation on why he did so. He was also banned on a basis of things that happened in the past that I really don't know anything about. To me, I'm not sure that being banned indefinitely is fair but it's ultimately up to the staff and I respect that. I'll just say that I believe Barnes seems like the kind of player who will actually take steps to improve the quality of his gameplay and avoid further violations of the rules and it would be a shame for him to be completely severed from the community without one more chance.

3. There are also good arguments in favor of his ban. I won't ignore this. The logs are right there, along with pretty much everything that Jennalele stated.

4. No, I don't know Barnes outside of what I've seen right here. I'm simply stating what I believe and what I see.

[LordRaven001]

1. This sort of post would be better received as an unban request. As of right now it's doing more harm than good making a direct complaint towards AimlessAnalyst.

 

Staff Complaints are investigated as a unban request aswell, He did the right thing in complaining.

 

This was an IC mistake. We all understand this. There's a lot of little things littered throughout this whole incident that are interesting. Barnes was permabanned for stabbing himself with a pen and he gave a reasonable (at least to me) explanation on why he did so. He was also banned on a basis of things that happened in the past that I really don't know anything about. To me, I'm not sure that being banned indefinitely is fair but it's ultimately up to the staff and I respect that. I'll just say that I believe Barnes seems like the kind of player who will actually take steps to improve the quality of his gameplay and avoid further violations of the rules and it would be a shame for him to be completely severed from the community without one more chance.

 

This is a HeavyRP Server, people selfharming because they were in a closed cell for five minutes while security was investigating why they had a blooded knife.. That alone breaks two too three rules, Ignoring PainRP,FearRP and roleplaying an insane character. The player in question was also a very rude dude in the ahelps and disconnected to post a complaint, Given his history he was banned.

[pickled_tomato]

Thank you for the reply, LordRaven001. That clears up a lot of my thoughts. Pardon me putting my nose where it doesn't belong. I was making flawed and extremely uninformed observations.

It's good to know they're viewed as unban requests as well. As with the ahelps, I can easily imagine what kinds of messages you guys got. It all makes more sense in my head now.

It's very easy to get in a certain mindset and ignore aspects you don't agree with when it comes to bans and moderation in general. This applies to both sides, as with any conflict. It's also possible to put your best possible face on for an appeal like this, but ultimately it's up to you guys and you all know that. Most of my posts have just been restating the obvious anyways. Pardon me.

[Bedshaped]

This is a HeavyRP Server, people selfharming

 

Considering it's an action that does zero damage. What constitutes 'harm' is entirely up to the person roleplaying. If I was actually bashing myself with a fire extinguisher or doing what I believed constituted genuine pain RP, I wouldn't even be disputing this.

 

because they were in a closed cell for five minutes while security was investigating why they had a blooded knife..

 

This is patently false. I am wandering into the realm of character complaint; investigation begins with interview, from the point I was cuffed to the point I was left in solitary zero interview was conducted all the while I was repeatedly stating what happened. I wasn't given a single utterance of conversation from either the officer or the warden while they stripped me naked (including my radio) and threw me into solitary confinement. I will add that all the while I never resisted arrest or made their arrest difficult. But since my character is about to be thrown into solitary without communication methods with no expectation of an investigation or appeal I believe this is an entirely believable basis for my refutations below:

 

That alone breaks two too three rules, Ignoring PainRP

 

As I said, considering this is a pen and it does zero damage, what constitutes pain RP is up to what, in the minds eye of the roleplayer, amounts to damage.

 

,FearRP

 

You are speaking out of ignorance. If you check the logs, the entire time I was imprisoned I screamed and shouted aloud for someone to help and of my innocence.

 

and roleplaying an insane character.

 

In no way was I roleplaying an insane character. I was roleplaying a desperately afraid character who feared being thrown into a solitary pen without appeal or discourse.

 

The player in question was also a very rude dude in the ahelps

 

I believe this is entirely untrue and I'm challenging you to post the logs from my ahelps with AimlessAnalyst and with Alberyk.

 

and disconnected to post a complaint,

 

This is a bit of a shocking statement on your part. Are you implying I was partly punished for posting a staff complaint? This is your forums; if you don't want staff complaints, why do you have the sub-board for it?

 

Given his history he was banned.

 

Permanently banned*

As stated before:

 

Could you also justify why someone with a few minor warnings could go straight from that to a permaban? I have never murdered anyone while non-antag, all of my infraction have been for badly IC combat and all have remained non-lethal. I don't run around as a grey baldie toolboxing people to death and I'm always willing to hash it out with the admins when I get bwoinked.

 

This is the entire reason I'm posting this complaint. I believe AimlessAnalyst abused their power over trivialities in an overly severe way.

 

This reeks to me of utter pedantry, excessive punishment, admin babysitting

[LordRaven001]

Considering it's an action that does zero damage. What constitutes 'harm' is entirely up to the person roleplaying. If I was actually bashing myself with a fire extinguisher or doing what I believed constituted genuine pain RP, I wouldn't even be disputing this.

Um, The pen actually does 3-5 brute damage my friend, Its a pen.

 

This is patently false. I am wandering into the realm of character complaint; investigation begins with interview, from the point I was cuffed to the point I was left in solitary zero interview was conducted all the while I was repeatedly stating what happened. I wasn't given a single utterance of conversation from either the officer or the warden while they stripped me naked (including my radio) and threw me into solitary confinement. I will add that all the while I never resisted arrest or made their arrest difficult. But since my character is about to be thrown into solitary without communication methods with no expectation of an investigation or appeal I believe this is an entirely believable basis for my refutations below:

 

Not really, As I was the one investigating your case and the one who imprisoned you.

 

In no way was I roleplaying an insane character. I was roleplaying a desperately afraid character who feared being thrown into a solitary pen without appeal or discourse.

 

"I've been imprisoned for not even five minutes and I have no headset, Better start stabbing myself to death with a pen" That's insane and bad roleplay.

 

I believe this is entirely untrue and I'm challenging you to post the logs from my ahelps with AimlessAnalyst and with Alberyk.

 

Ill contact an admin to get the logs.

 

This is a bit of a shocking statement on your part. Are you implying I was partly punished for posting a staff complaint? This is your forums; if you don't want staff complaints, why do you have the sub-board for it?

 

You disconnected in the middle of an admin conversation to post a complaint on that admin, while the round is going on, That breaks one game rule and one forum rule.

 

DO NOT MAKE A COMPLAINT WHILE A ROUND IS STILL GOING. THIS CONSTITUTES AS IC IN OOC. WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE ROUND!

[Gollee]

LR, pens actually do do no damage; it's likely a deliberate coding thing to prevent people suiciding from them.

[Bedshaped]

1. You're making that up. Baycode pens do zero damage.

2. From my point of view, zero considerations were given towards an investigation.

3. Your "stabbing myself to death with a pen" comment is nullified by the facts above and that what the action means has to be interpreted by the person preforming said action. In this case it was a total of eight times in the right leg. I could jab myself IRL with a pen 8 times in the leg and it would not injure me, draw blood or cause me any kind of reflexive pain.

4. I was issued a permanent ban before rounds end. Had I known when the round were to end, I would gladly have held off on posting before such time but alas.

[Nanako]

In no way was I roleplaying an insane character. I was roleplaying a desperately afraid character who feared being thrown into a solitary pen without appeal or discourse.

 

"I've been imprisoned for not even five minutes and I have no headset, Better start stabbing myself to death with a pen" That's insane and bad roleplay.

 

I once got bwoinked for doing something similar. I'd been kidnapped and left in a room for a couple of minutes. I turned up my suit sensors and beat myself with the nearest object, in order to get AI/medical to notice me and send help.

Once i explained the situation to the admin in question, they were cool with it.

[Jennalele]

I'm curious. You've been here a while, you've surely read our rules multiple times with how many times we've been over this. Yet you still logged out during staff contact, willingly, and freely admit to such. That is and always has been grounds for a ban or escalation thereof.

Furthermore, you don't seem to be getting the point of, "if I were at work, would I start gouging myself with a pen for corporate security holding me for an hour? Even if the charge is false?" I should hope the answer is no. You're not going to federal prison. You'll be here for an hour or two at the most, out of your entire life, and if you think that's grounds to start stabbing yourself (even if the thing 'mechanically does no damage lol',) I honestly think you need to see a psych.

Just because something doesn't do damage mechanically, it doesn't mean you have free rein to do whatever you want with it. Lighters, pens, come on, man, this is a Heavy RP server and you should know better.

[Bedshaped]

The one thing I'm not disputing is that I probably shouldn't have logged off. When you started threatening me with a permanent ban, the ridiculousness of the threat made me pretty angry. You didn't sound like someone who had the best interests of the server in mind, you sounded petty and vindictive.

The main reasons I'm complaining are that you didn't act like I would hope an admin of my favourite SS13 server should. Your behaviour was very questionable in how you employed:

• pedantry
  • "it doesn't do actual damage, just pops up a low font size message"
    
  • "I was in a solitary cell, nobody could see me, nobody could hear me (no radio)"

[*]excessive punishment

• You have a huge amount of tools at your disposal

  There are different types of punishments staff may hand out, depending on the specific incident and severity of offense.
  
  
  
  Verbal Warning/Warning: A warning is the lightest type of punishment we will dispense. Generally, this means you'll be informed of the rule you've broken, and we'll let you resume playing after you ensure us you won't break the rule again.
  
  Jobban: A jobban will prevent you from selecting/playing a specific job on the pregame screen - jobbans are handed out for problematic behavior which is specific to a job. Note that if you're jobbanned from a job, you should not ask to be assigned to that job in game, as this might be seen as evasion and get you a ban. All attempts to evade a jobban (e.g. by multikeying) can result in a permanent ban being issued.
  
  Temporary Ban: Temporary bans are handed out for situations where a single warning may not suffice, and will prevent you from playing the game on our server for a set amount of time (usually varying from 1 to 7 days). All attempts to evade a temporary ban (e.g. by multikeying) will result in the ban being made permanent.
  
  Permanent Ban: Permanent bans are a last resort, and given to players who prove themselves as completely unable to respect server rules, or curb their behavior after several warnings.

  
  
• For your to go straight to a permanent ban is excessive, especially considering I haven't gotten much more than a warning for minor rp failings. I would have expected the maximum sentence would have been a temp ban for perhaps 3 days.
  
• I would still like to see the ahelp logs because I am 99% sure you had finished ascertaining the issue from me and you had decided to start issuing threats of a permaban, I left after all of your useful information had been deduced

[*]admin babysitting

• You didn't even wait until any IC interactions could have been concluded
  
• I gave you a semi-plausible reason why someone might, if they felt like they were illegally detained without any form of communication, might try to exploit suit-sensors in order to force someone to interact with him. It is also worth noting that I was aiming for the leg all the time; my character was fully aware they did not want to do any real damage
  
• If you will look at the IC chat logs, you will see that I RPed fear the entire time; my character shouted and plead for help or someone to talk to even though I knew OOC nobody could hear me.
  
• You froze me in place even though I had 100% health and was in a solitary cell without doing any harm to anyone else's roleplay on the server

 

I am still waiting on two things in this complaint:

• The ahelp logs because I was accused of being rude and I don't think this was true
  
• A statement from an admin who is higher or equal to AimlessAnalyst in seniority

[Skull132]

Generally speaking, we do get onto people's case if they are stabbing themselves repeatedly with a pen. Even moreso if you're trapped in solitary confinement or in the brig, as in most cases, people tend to look for ways to off themselves there, or to simply faff about. Logging mid contact with an admin generally makes us move for an immediate permaban, as we consider the issue unresolved and force you to appeal outright in order to actually resolve the matter.

Continuing with the stabbing oneself to get medical to notice them. It's kind of not really preferred, as everyone and their mum would attempt that in order to get attention in the brig.

Regarding your notes. You have a good 5 over the last 30 days regarding violations of core rules. Surprisingly, two three of them about the same issue: EOR grief (I'm surprised you weren't 3 day banned for that). And most of them can also be summed up with bad escalation of conflict. At which point, we will have to draw the line somewhere, when it comes to continual bad roleplay in one form or another.

The adminlogs down below, from both your talks with Alb and Jenna.

Line 42919: [21:44:42]ADMIN: PM: Alberyk/(Alberyk)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): Who did so, and why?

Line 42951: [21:45:03]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->Alberyk/(Alberyk): Warden, Dionaea. Also I didn't kill anyone, I stabbed a dead body.

Line 42984: [21:45:22]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->Alberyk/(Alberyk): So the charge is mutilation of a corpse and contraband.

Line 43160: [21:47:51]ADMIN: PM: Alberyk/(Alberyk)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): I will see what I can do, meanwhile I think that security is dealing with your investigation icly.

Line 43170: [21:48:03]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->Alberyk/(Alberyk): Ok, but is no radio SOP?

Line 43177: [21:48:13]ADMIN: PM: Alberyk/(Alberyk)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): Did you abuse it?

Line 43187: [21:48:22]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->Alberyk/(Alberyk): No. I don't believe so.

Line 43230: [21:48:47]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->Alberyk/(Alberyk): I didn't say anything into the radio since I was arrested.

Line 43484: [21:52:10]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->Alberyk/(Alberyk): Can I get put into a cell at least...

Line 43617: [21:53:40]ADMIN: PM: AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): What are you doing.

Line 43642: [21:54:04]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus): I'm brigged without a radio and for a crime I didn't/couldn't have fucking committed.

Line 43658: [21:54:13]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus): I'm pissed off.

Line 43674: [21:54:27]ADMIN: PM: AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): So, in response, you, a sane, well-rounded individual, begins to repeatedly stab themselves with a pen?

Line 43715: [21:54:57]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus): I already ahelped this and I'm still here with no radio and in solitary

Line 43738: [21:55:10]ADMIN: PM: AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): That really doesn't answer my question.

Line 43886: [21:56:42]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus): Is the Warden allowed to brig someone in solitary with no radio for descecration of a corpse?

Line 43947: [21:57:42]ADMIN: PM: AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): You're not answering my question, man. I'm asking you why you, a sane, well-rounded individual, should start stabbing yourself with a pen, because you're spending an hour out of your entire life in a cell.

Line 44000: [21:58:24]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus): Do you even play this game? You can't hurt yourself with a pen.

Line 44041: [21:59:03]ADMIN: PM: AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): Mechanics =/= what you're actually doing. Have you even read the rules? You can't start stabbing yourself because "muh headset".

Line 44061: [21:59:24]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus): I want to hurt myself and make someone say "Hey lets check on this guy in the brig" so I have someone to tell "This is a bullshit imprisonment."

Line 44071: [21:59:36]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus): It's called logic. Not insanity.

Line 44088: [21:59:56]ADMIN: PM: AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): Okay, so you achieve this... Not by faking an injury or something, but by actually and repeatedly stabbing yourself with a pen. K.

Line 44114: [22:00:20]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus): Suit sensors + someone watching suit sensors = Someone who will come to help you

Line 44134: [22:00:40]ADMIN: PM: AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): What happened to "You can't hurt yourself with a pen god do you even play", then?

Line 44143: [22:00:50]ADMIN: PM: Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh)->AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus): There are four damage types in this game, brute, suffocation, toxin, burn.

Line 44148: [22:00:52]ADMIN: PM: AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): How about I put it for you this way. You've been toeing the line for a pretty long time, you've been spoken to for questionable RP MULTIPLE times.

Line 44164: [22:01:01]ADMIN: PM: AimlessAnalyst/(Evocatus)->Bedshaped/(Leon Marsh): Give me one reason not to send you on a permanent vacation.

 

The last line by Jenna is dumb, and should have been worded better. I'll get Alberyk to post on the player complaint you filed, and to also offer insight on the matter. Beyond that, I'll have a quick chat with the other admins can get back to you.

[Bedshaped]

If an immediate permaban is your SOP for logging mid-admin contact then I can't contest the reasons the ban was issued. I can see the issue why a genuinely solitary brigged player shouldn't be allowed to harm themselves, although in my case I had been brigged pretty unfairly for 10 minutes; a non-trivial amount of time in a game. I guess the problem I had with this case was that Aimless seemed to come at the situation of 'penning yourself' where they already had a permaban in mind; I didn't think it warranted it.

Should I appeal now or what?

[Jennalele]

Personally, I wouldn't mind lowering the time of your ban now that there's a bit of an understanding here. The issue is, however, that we'd need proof and promise that you'll step up your game when you come back and straighten out. You shouldn't need 3-5 warnings and notes in a short time period to remind you not to break the rules, and I hope, if you are unbanned, that you choose to be a little more in line with what we expect of the playerbase. Savvy, aye?

[Bedshaped]

I'll be a good lad, who means well.

[Jennalele]

Then I'd be for unbanning, personally. Skull did say he'd get back to this however- I'll hold for his final input.

[Skull132]

Done, ban lifted, and complaint marked as resolved then. No need for appeal, as this basically served as one.

As I said, the policy is there and has been there for a butt long time. Generally speaking, these permabans are way easier to appeal than ones issued for other reasons, as all we ask for is communication and to gain a uniform understanding of the issue that was originally discussed. Since we now have that, the ban has served it's purpose and we can go on having ourselves a merry time in the deathtrap of SS13.