Player Complaint - CommanderXor

[Ornias]

BYOND Key: Ornias

Game ID: bs0MVf

Player Byond Key: CommanderXor

Staff involved: cakeisossim

Reason for complaint: The round started as the very definition of a skeleton shift (with two people and a synthetic) on-station, being Security Officer Alice Knapp and CommanderXor's character "Edward Cane", who was playing a virologist at the time, and ESRA, the stations Android. I spawned as the rounds antagonist, the ninja, who was named Zumokiku. I worked out how to get my suit to work, as I've never played the role before, and teleported into arrivals. I walked to the central ring, still working out how to interact with my suit, and saw Edward Cane talking with ESRA. He immediately stated on radio that there was an 'Intruder', which although frustrating I can't really blame, because someone wearing a skintight black suit isn't exactly inconspicuous. He went on saying there was an intruder until security arrived. The security officer, Alice Knapp, came to the scene and instigated an RP, where I introduced myself, and greeted each of the members of crew, taking my helmet down to interact. I proceeded to, in response to him yelling 'intruder' the moment he saw me and with appropriate buildup, head-butt him, which didn't do much damage. He then chased me around the central ring, despite me being an intruder to a high-tech research station and him only a virologist.

After running literally halfway across the station, I turned around and (aiming for the legs) incapacitated him with my sword. Bear in mind that I'm new to the suit, and don't exactly know how it works, and that was the only way I knew to defend myself when being attacked. I took out his leg, and security arrived, and I was compliant, bear in mind. I assisted in medical efforts, went to robotics in an attempt to get the roboticist (who just arrived on-station) to build a new leg, looked for a wheelchair for him, got him a cane, and was generally assisting all efforts, in an attempt to help him.

He gets his wheelchair, but robotics isn't responding and can't be found so he is still missing his limb.

Up until this point, even though it was a silly thing to do rushing me as a virologist, nothing worthy of staff intervention came up. I head-butted him (a non-lethal and indeed non-serious attack) in response to him acting foolishly IC, and defended myself while chased.

But then, unfortunately, he decided to take it upon himself to deal with me. Now, I walk around with my hood down, which means my face is exposed. That's intentional. I want to give people a way to deal with me, and a way they can interact with me IC other than just being an always-armor-clad warrior. So he takes advantage of this and takes the syringe gun from medical, and somehow (considering he is a virologist) mixes up a chemical to knock me unconscious. I say hello to him, and ask him about how his recovery is going, and then he (giving no warning, bear in mind) shoots me twice in the head with the syringe gun. So I attempt to run, but seeing I'm not going to escape, attempt to incapacitate him - AKA removing his arms. Unfortunately, I am only able to remove one before the anesthetic takes effect, and I fall unconscious.

That's the first issue I have: a virologist who probably shouldn't have much knowledge of chemicals decided to gank an antagonist who was not acting aggressively with no warning. I had attacked him in the past, yes, but only in self-defense and had assisted in medical efforts to fix him, and in that incident I had shown nothing but good-will.

And then we get onto the second issue: he continuously bludgeoned me while I was down and he was in a wheelchair with a crowbar, until a cyborg was able to convince him to stop. He claims he did not intend to kill me, but he hit me a lot. I'm afraid I was unconscious at the time, so I don't have a copy of how many times I was hit, but I heard the sound effect a lot - enough to send me into crit.

And then, finally, we get into the third issue. The doctor, who had just arrived on station, was trying to help me. But then Edward Cane instructed the doctor to straight-jacket me and hide my control module. I was then left in cryo for the remainder of the round, with no assistance from anybody.

To add insult to injury, they then proceeded to run around, bragging about 'robusting the ninja' and mocking them.

As a side note, a moderator (CakeIsOssim) was online at the time, but I feel like their judgement in the issue might have been slightly impaired due to his IC character's (ESRA) perspective and knowledge of the situation.

 

Approximate Date/Time: 9 PM NZT, 9/29/2016

[Jboy2000000]

I just want to bring this up, an incident report towards Xor, as the same character. http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?p=69826#p69815

The short of it is, he was insulting someone and saying he would murder that person with a flamethrower, welding himself into virology when security went to arrest him, attempted to kill himself to avoid being captured by security, and then broke out of the bring before being captured again. I assume since this actually made it to being an IR by a member of staff, we can trust that were never an antag at any point in this ordeal.

[CommanderXor]

Alright. I made a forum account just to defend myself on this. I'm going to give my story on it in the long run and then tell you why I did it point by point in reaction to what you said.

As soon as the shift started I checked the manifest, just me and Alice. ERAS came aboard and I started asking him to let me grab the spare ID as a sort of joke, I just kept talking to him and it soon devolved in to me talking about if he wanted me to pet him and he was talking about not being a dog. I saw you approach. Considering you weren't on the manifest at the start nor no announcements. I assumed you were a intruder. Fast forward Alice comes down and we all start talking. Then you come up and headbutt me, causing 9 point something of eye damage and bleeding damage. I chase after you, trying to disarm you for that. When we went from one side of the bridge to the other, you immediately summoned your sword and removed my leg causing me to go in to crit while bleeding. Alice had dragged me in to medical and ERAS guided her how to get me in cryo and alive. You come in and start buckling me to a bed as I asked for your help. Cue several attempts at getting a cane to work, I get ERAS to grab a wheelchair. I'm rolling around in medical while you head back. I head to a vendor and grab three syringes and a bottle of soporific. Using my access I put them in to the syringe gun and went looking for you. When I found you, I drawed my gun and nailed you between the eyes once. You then attempted to run away only to run back and attempt to esword me. I drew my crowbar and tried to defend myself, resulting in my arm being severed and more blood loss. Cue you standing up and trying to teleport away, you teleported in to chemistry where I got ERAS to come in and help me contain you. I kept crowbarring you and applying soporific to keep you from getting up and lynching me. Alexei arrived on the station and I asked for his help. Considering I saw you teleport away I made the decision to remove the suit to prevent that, and a straight jacket to prevent you from harming me. [At the time I was in light critical, only kept going because I had taken a painkiller for the severed arm and leg.] I ended up sticking you in cryo because I didn't intend on killing you. I had talked to Alexei about making sure you couldn't escape incase security arrived. The reason you were kept in cryo is because I needed to get robotic limbs attached and healed myself. Because I couldn't pull you or pin you, meaning you could easily escape if I let you wake up. By the time we actually got the robotic limbs, you had somehow exploded in to a group of nymphs. The rest of the round didn't relate to you in the slightest.

Right, now that text wall is finished, let's break it down in to dot points.

'That's the first issue I have: a virologist who probably shouldn't have much knowledge of chemicals decided to gank an antagonist who was not acting aggressively with no warning. I had attacked him in the past, yes, but only in self-defense and had assisted in medical efforts to fix him, and in that incident I had shown nothing but good-will.' I had grabbed soporific from the vendor, I didn't mix it myself. I merely put a syringe of it in to a dart gun. You had removed my leg and gave me eye damage simply because I had called you a intruder. It escalated in to this.

'And then we get onto the second issue: he continuously bludgeoned me while I was down and he was in a wheelchair with a crowbar, until a cyborg was able to convince him to stop. He claims he did not intend to kill me, but he hit me a lot. I'm afraid I was unconscious at the time, so I don't have a copy of how many times I was hit, but I heard the sound effect a lot - enough to send me into crit.' I crit'd you because I had a missing arm and leg and I was the only person besides a borg. I had to ensure you stayed down until I was in a state that I could tend to your wounds and make sure you didn't escape or murder me.

'And then, finally, we get into the third issue. The doctor, who had just arrived on station, was trying to help me. But then Edward Cane instructed the doctor to straight-jacket me and hide my control module. I was then left in cryo for the remainder of the round, with no assistance from anybody.' The 'doctor' wasn't a doctor, he was a anomlist. The reason I removed your suit is because I saw you teleporting and pulling swords out of it when you had no backpack. It was a hazard if you woke up. The reason I straight jacketed you was to prevent you from escaping or harming me as I couldn't pull or pin people.

I took a screenshot during the incident incase anything happened.

As you can see, I am lacking a arm and leg in this and we are in chemistry with her passed out with ERAS near by trying to help sedate her.

That is all I really can say as that is the full account of what happened and the reasoning behind it.

[Jboy2000000]

And what about everything described in the incident report against you?

[CommanderXor]

And what about everything described in the incident report against you?

This isn't the thread for that. Some of it is true, some of it isn't.

[Jboy2000000]

The IR was closed because it was deemed as an OOC problem alongside this complaint.

[Ornias]

You had removed my leg and gave me eye damage simply because I had called you a intruder.

I head-butted you once, causing minor damage, in response to you calling me an 'intruder' over the radio when I was in your field of vision (and a significant distance away, and you were facing away from me) for about three seconds. The minor assault was roleplayed out, with me approaching you and dealing, as you said, 9 damage. I then backed off, and you chased me around the bridge, despite a security officer being right there and ordering you to stop. I cut off your leg because you were chasing me, with quite obvious intent to hurt me - and from your immediate response to seeing me it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume you were trying to actually hurt me. The most aggressive thing I did there was head-butt you, and that was justified both IC and OOC.

 

I crit'd you because I had a missing arm and leg and I was the only person besides a borg. I had to ensure you stayed down until I was in a state that I could tend to your wounds and make sure you didn't escape or murder me.

Again, your leg was removed in self-defense, and preparing to take down someone who can obviously generate a sword from mid-air doesn't make any sense from an IC perspective, considering your character is a virologist. What's more, trying to take someone out with literally no warning, after I was obviously attempting to help you and make sure you stayed alive, and had attempted to procure a robotic leg to fix your injury, is shitty OOC. I had not acted aggressively towards you: all serious injuries were caused in self-defense. The security officer who was present can confirm this, as she saw the entire incident. What's more, I had twice had an oppertunity to murder you - once when you chased me the first time, and once when you injected me the second - but the second time, even then, I went for the non-lethal way of dealing with you - by removing your arm. I understand that not every attack has to have a monologue, but you have me no indication, used scummy tactics to beat me, and took me out of the round as opposed to using it as a way to make it more interesting.

 

The reason I removed your suit is because I saw you teleporting and pulling swords out of it when you had no backpack.

If this had appropriate RP buildup, then I'd be content with an answer like this. But quite simply, there wasn't - I only teleported because that was the only way I stood a chance to avoid being immediately ganked by your syringe-gun-out-of-nowhere. You forced me to respond with aggression, leaving me no other option. And, from an OOC perspective, taking someone out of the round like that is just wrong. I'd twice kept you in the round instead of choosing to remove you, and you repaid the kindness by taking me out of the round permanently.

I had not done anything to take you out of the round, and had only acted in a way to include you in the roleplay. You decided to attack me, to take me out of the round, and to antagonize me postmortem in return. That's the issue I have.

[Guest]

If you had the ninja sedated, why was it necessary to beat them with a crowbar right after you sedated them?

That should be clearly indicated intent you were attempting to murder them.

[CommanderXor]

If you had the ninja sedated, why was it necessary to beat them with a crowbar right after you sedated them?

That should be clearly indicated intent you were attempting to murder them.

 

If I was going to kill the ninja, why would I put them in cryo once I was stable?

[Guest]

You're still missing the first part.

Why was it necessary to beat them? Aren't you already treading a fine line with threatening to release viruses openly over comms, bucko?

[CommanderXor]

You're still missing the first part.

Why was it necessary to beat them? Aren't you already treading a fine line with threatening to release viruses openly over comms, bucko?

The reason I started beating them is A) To ensure that they stayed down, basic vending sedative doesn't last long and B) A bit of IC revenge for removing a leg and arm.

[Guest]

soporific lasts way longer than chloral hydrate does in keeping people asleep.

crashing their skull in is entirely unnecessary if you had them sedated.

You break your medical oath bashing someone's skull in as a medical staff member.

You wouldn't have just lost your arm and leg, you would've lost your job, too.

[Zundy]

Sounds like you both goofed but Xor the IR damns you at the moment. Can you explain what happened in that instance please?

[Alberyk]

I already spoke to the player about what happened in the IR, so, it has already been handled by staff.

[Zundy]

In that case (since we don't know the details of the IR discussion) we've got:

"Didn't know how to use the ninja suit so I fucked up a guy."

V

"Valids are valid so I valid'ed."

Both seem a bit in the wrong to me though it was dead round with no one really affected.

Edit: You're coming off a bit worse Xor because robust valid hunting (viro going after a cyber assassin) is harsher then fumbling kills with a new role (oh jeez how do I, oh god now I've cut his leg off some one help me!).

[ShameOnTurtles]

Okay, post time. As a note, if the resolution from this could be at least touched upon, that would be good. Right now, I have no idea.

I should mention that I was the Security Officer in this scenario, Alice Knapp. Unfortunately, about when I was trying to stabilize Edward Cane after his leg was chopped off my internet died and didn't come back until the next day.

Anyways, ignoring the fact you chased after someone in an obviously high-tech unknown hard suit, you had your leg chopped off. Literally a leg chopped off. Yeah, sure. You could argue you didn't know what it was capable of, so you chased after them in revenge. Nevermind the Security Officer right beside you, ready to step in. After that, as said before, leg gone.

Moving on, I'm desperately trying to treat you with the basic stuff I know. ESRA is cooling down cryo and we're waiting. Que the internet cut.

Now, going off what you said about the round...

Using my access I put them in to the syringe gun and went looking for you.

 

What. Literally just... what. This person has demonstrated an ability to generate an energy blade from their suit. This person has also demonstrated the ability to cut limbs off with little to no difficulty. If you hunkered down awaiting them with sedatives, sure. But you say yourself you actively looked for them. Keep in mind, this is as a Virologist. You have little or no combat training, and you sure as hell aren't immune to the effects of fear and pain. This person has chopped your leg off. You're a doctor. You should be bloody scared of them, not wanting to seek them out.

Again, from what you said:

You then attempted to run away only to run back and attempt to esword me. I drew my crowbar and tried to defend myself, resulting in my arm being severed and more blood loss. Cue you standing up and trying to teleport away, you teleported in to chemistry where I got ERAS to come in and help me contain you.

You try to defend yourself. That's fine and dandy. However, they sever your arm. Despite this, you still try to fight them? You have two limbs, yet you still try to bash their head in. Also, you say later you put them in cryo, straightjacket them, and such. Why didn't you do that earlier? As far as I can see, there was no need to attack an unconscious person. High amounts of soporific are quite the sedative.

On feedback, you're a pretty good roleplayer most of the time. Barring when you get bored and mess around to an unholy degree (cough cough), you're good. I think you just need to keep in mind your character's goals, and treat them as more of a person. Your character is a human being. They aren't - or at least shouldn't be - too crazy. They certainly shouldn't be chasing armed and unknown people around with a syringe gun. Perhaps you need to look at your character's motivations for working where they are, and how they got there.

This seems like enough said. As stated before, I wasn't there for the whole interaction but based on what you said, CommanderXor, yeah. Play for fun, not to win.

[DatBerry]

i've taken over this complaint, and with my little band of disappointing minions decided to discuss this.

we've discussed all the points in the thread, starting with the headbutting:

while screaming intruder first thing on the radio is a bit LRPish, when the shift was small, its easy to notice someone off, but even then. you should talk to someone before shouting they're valids.

a headbutt deals 20 brute, that's a serious assault, he had a good reason to run after you to maybe punch you down or push you, and you retaliate with slashing a limb off.

while he should have displayed fear of you, he should also develop hatred, losing a limb is a real life changer, even with prosthetic limb.

you being nice to them has no bearing on how he should treat you, you cut off a whole limb and you're trying to make it up to them by being nice?

when someone believes he has the upperhand, he may attempt stupid actions. a point raised by tainavaa, you may had a strong sword, but he had a ranged sedative.

again, losing a limb can be a reason to lead to murder, thinking he had the advantage he went to take his revenge. but the execution of your revenge was sub standards.

"hey how are you doing?" "fine, thank you" pew pew pew pew. No. you need to put more effort into your actions, just like how antags need to roleplay their antagonizing actions, you need to roleplay your revenge.

final verdict: the reasons for your actions have been deemed valid, your execution of events has been deemed sub-standards. consider this a warning to improve your action roleplay efforts.

[DatBerry]

Locking and archiving.