Meta Research Input thread

[Nanako]

Hello i am nanako, developer. You might know me from such things as The Diona Overhaul, a four month epic. Random Cargo Stock, or how cargotechs can get free booze and cigs, and Exosuit Crashing, a hearty 'fuck you' to firelocks and windows.

I'm here today to talk with you about my Next Big Thing. The new Aurora Research Projects system.

An Overview:

This will be my largest project yet, it is intended to entirely overhaul the science department and give it more reason to exist. But more significantly, this project intends to give us ALL a reason to exist. Aurora is, theoretically at least, a research station. Although many rounds are just medical and security waiting for antags to happen. This project is intended to give the station a purpose, something people can do, and a common goal to work towards during peaceful times.

And as a foreword, i should note that this is a longterm project. based on my track record, a rough ETA is three months from now,

New research system coming Q1-2, 2017

So what is it?

Here are the three tenets of this project. These three statements are, as far as i'm concerned, non negotiable, they form the core of the design.

1.

The Research Projects system is first and foremost, about persistence.

All areas of the science department (and a couple outside of it) will generate Research Meta Points (RMP) from their research oriented activities. These points are stored in an external database and will last beyond the current shift. They are not lost at the end of the round, and they will persist between rounds, as will the things they unlock

2.

The research projects system is about change and variety

RMP which are saved up, can be spent at any time, by a Research Director, to unlock technologies. These technologies will be presented in a tech tree, somewhat akin to strategy games like the civilisation series. Each tech comes with a fancy name and interesting lore blurb, but more importantly, all techs create a meaningful and permanant* change to some aspect of gameplay. Techs will not just benefit the science department, but are for everyone. And will result in new machines appearing in departments, new equipment in job lockers, new behaviours for existing things, and new items added to random spawning pools (like the armoury.) Most techs, once researched, will have an effect that does not depend on farther effort from the science people to use it. If a new machine for medical is researched, then that machine will appear in medical at the start of every round from then on.

All of these techs are designed to alter how the game is played. Sometimes to get rid of mechanics that are boring or undesireable, sometimes to throw a roadblock in the way of tactics and methods that are overused, sometimes to add viable alternatives to favourite tools and weapons that everyone usually sticks to.

3.

The research projects system is cyclical

Now this is an important point to understand, and a bitter pill for some people to swallow.

The research projects system will work on a cyclical system: At the end of each research cycle, all RMP and researched techs will be wiped. All that is unlocked will be taken away, and everything reverts back to normal, ready for a new cycle where you'll start over and unlock things again. The system will be tuned over time so that it won't generally be possible to unlock everything within one cycle, encouraging the community to try different paths in each new cycle, and set different goals.

A research cycle will last for one month. Roughly 30 days. Hence, there will be twelve resets per year. This is happening because it's the best choice, and also because it's necessary.

Why is it necessary?

The aurora development team is small. Admittedly we are actually larger than certain major game companies, we have 6-8 coders, 6+ writers, and 1-3 artists. However we are all part time volunteers with varying levels of commitment.

Without a regular reset, this system would require rapid ongoing development to remain meaningful. A large company like valve could do such a thing, churning out new features and shiny things every week. We cannot, and the fact that i'm largely working alone on this project (for now at least) only compounds that. Without regular resets, neither I, nor the dev team, can keep up with the community. You guys would quickly unlock everything, and stop caring about research.

Why is it a good idea?

The key idea here, is efficient use of content.

Say for example, a new tech is introduced to create Advanced health scanners. You research that, you get fancy new health scanners with new functions and a new icon. You'll have fun with the novelty for a week, maybe two. And then, much like the 'advanced' mass spectrometer, the novelty wears off, and your shiny new thing just becomes the new normal. In time, you'd forget that the old health scanners even existed, or what they looked like. Their sprites would rot in the archive for all eternity and in a year or two, people would demand even more advanced scanners with even more features.

A regular reset, provides a contrast, and that's important. Under this system, you'll get your fancy new health scanners, you'll love them, and then a couple weeks later they will be taken away. You'll get the old, less-powerful versions back. You'll miss them and perhaps want the advanced ones again, and thus interaction is created in you pestering science to research them. In the meantime, your health scanners will look differerent depending on whether or not the upgrade has been researched, you'll have one sprite half the time, and one the other half, more variety means less chance of getting bored.

But more significantly, the gameplay effects of them become more pronounced.

Maybe your new health scanner has a lifeform scan in it, that makes it easy to find corpses hidden in dark corners, and that makes an antag's life harder, that might mean they can't hide corpses in an unflushed disposal anymore. If you had that all the time, that tactic would simply vanish. But when you only have that advanced scan sometimes, it means that there's a new factor to consider. sometimes, like at the start of a cycle, you'll have to struggle without it. And that contrast creates variety in gameplay, which is a good thing.

All of that aside, i believe the monthlong cycle period is a good length, and it is unlikely to change. As new content is added to this system in future, i will likely increase the density- rather than the length of the cycle. That is, as i add more stuff ill gradually either lower tech costs or increase research gains, so you can get more stuff in the same time.

-Continued in next post-

[Nanako]

Now onto the main meat of this thread, the reason I'm talking to the community now.

As mentioned, the plan is to reward each department with RMP for various research oriented actions. I have some great insights on this design process, but i would like to open it up a little to community input.

RMP is a reward mechanism, and it stands to reason that it should reward good behaviour. As we are a heavy roleplay server, it should ideally reward good science roleplay, rather than powergaming. And it should strive to ensure that the most enjoyable way to play the game, is also the best one.

This system is being built from the ground up, with full accounting and reversibility of everything. Call me paranoid, but people just love to exploit and cheat, especially when there's something to gain, however tangible. The system is being designed to ensure people cannot simply farm or grind RMP with boring behaviours.

I would like to share my design insights, and ask for feedback, particularly about the areas i don't yet have a plan for.

RMP Gains will be segregated by department. Currently, the following are planned departments for contribution to research:

Robotics

R&D

Toxins

Telescience

Xenoarchaeology

Xenobotany (and botany in general)

Xenobiology

Virology

Library

I would like to discuss each of these departments. Specifically, i am interested in your opinions of what is a good way to roleplay these jobs. What should such a person be doing, and how can their efforts be measured and rewarded by the system

Note that not all areas are made equal. the library for instance, has a role in propagating knowledge, but it's fairly minor. This will be correspondingly represented with very minor RMP gains from library activities, generally much less than the 'real' science areas.

Lets start with the order that i'm working in:

Library:

As mentioned, the library is a very small contribution to research. generally all the other areas will contribute about 10x as much, each, as the library does. perhaps even more.

Nevertheless, a little bit still helps

The library is currently awarded RMP for two things:

1. Keeping the shelves stocked.

Every unique book in a bookshelf within the library gives a very tiny amount of RMP periodically. A good librarian should therefore ensure that all the shelves are kept stocked up with things. Unique is important, multiple copies of the same book only reward once.

This reward is only given if there is an active (alive, not-ssd, not-afk) librarian on staff. If they just fill the library and go cryo, they wont gain any rewards. They should remain active, and roam around the station encouraging people to read stuff

2. Reading.

A tiny amount of RMP is gained whenever anyone, anywhere, reads a book. This is intentionally vague. It will be a small trickle from reading reference manuals if nobody is pushing it, but it presents an opportunity for a librarian player to contribute by actively encouraging reading, and delivering interesting books to people.

This does come with built in anti spam measures, so a librarian that sits in a corner just reading will not gain as much as one that encourages reading by others.

Xenoarchaeology:

Xenoarch is, more than most, an RP-heavy area of science. I have put great effort into improving and tweaking its mechanics, including improvements to geosample scanning and find distribution. It's also a department full of arcane complexity and confusing mechanics, that's something i like and have tried to preserve, while ironing out bugs. I've also significantly improved interactions with rocky debris and strange rocks, as well as making debris far less common, and far more interesting when it does appear

In general, i believe the following things in xenoarch should be rewarded:

1. Careful Excavation

Digging up rocky tiles, rocky debris, and strange rocks, in a precise manner that allows unearthing the things hidden within, without damaging them. And making good use of your fine picks, suspension generator, depth scanner, etc. Important here is that this is rewarded whether or not you find anything, good scientific practise deserve

2. Finding things. Artifacts and finds are rewarded just for digging them up, although that's only a part of it.

3. Analysing finds. There's a variety of tools for analysing anomalies, and for radiocarbon spectrometry of finds. I've been working on improving and rewarding these mechanics. A spectrometer analysys of any find or core sample (only one reward per unique item) and an analysis of alien artifact will yield rewards.

4. Anomaly batteries. A little known feature, you can capture the energy from an alien artifact into a portable device that allows reuse of it . making these will be rewarded too

R&D:

The main department, concerned with research levels and protolathes. This will probably be the largest RMP contributor on average, but we'll see how things balance out. R&D also acts as an umbrella for other departments. To that end, the following things will be rewarded:

1. Active science staff. Scientists, Lab assistants, and research directors, will generate small amounts of RMP over time just for existing. Of course, they have to be alive, conscious, not-SSD and not afk. In essence, they need to have players actively playing them.

The assumption here is that a scientist who's actively playing, is probably doing science. Maybe he's writing reports or testing weapons or discussing theories. Some things aren't really possible to measure, and so this exists as a flexible reward for an assumption of good science behaviour.

2. Research levels: The Research Projects system is largely seperate from the research levels thing, but there is a link here. RMP is awarded over time based on the state of the research levels. This is something of a stopgap, the research levels sytem may need a bit of overhauling itself, but i've yet to see any good ideas for how. i have some big ideas of my own, but they may not make it into this first iteration. For now, research levels will be rewarded as they are.

Note that this is intrinsically linked with reward 1. In order for rewards to be given for research levels, there has to be at least one active scientist/LA/RD. So no rushing the levels and then cryoing.

3. Protolathing.

A good scientist's job often includes making things for the station. new manipulators for upgrades, laser scalpels, bluespace beakers, advanced energy weapons, hyper power cells,, etc,. R&D will be rewarded small amounts of RMP for making anything in the protolathe. The exact reward is based on the materials involved - bags of holding, which require rare elements, are worth a lot more than making tiny PDA cartridges that only require common things.

In addition, there is a small one-off reward for the first time any unique thing is produced. This is intended to encourage scientists to make one of everything and experiment with all the strange oddities in there.

Conversely, there are diminishing returns for spamming. Every copy of something after the first is worth less and less and less. So even if you make bags of holding all day you won't get much research, best to diversify

THE LINE

---------------------------------------------

This line right here marks the difference between work, and proposed work. Everything above this line is stuff ive already coded. Everything below this line, is simply things i plan to code. This is where i'm at now. I'll try to move this line as i progress with this project

------------------------------------------------

Toxins

Telescience

Virology

These three are a big questionmark. I'm not sure yet how to reward them, or what behaviours in these departments represent good science RP and deserve to be rewarded. I am very especially interested in input on how to reward these three departments. Please post any input you have

I'm aware that virology is not in science, but its primary function is nevertheless scientific and developmentally oriented.

Robotics

The red headed stepchild, robotics is that bastard lovechild of science and engineering, but science won the custody battle after their bitter divorce

Robotics is by far the most commonly played part of science, and it serves as much of a maintenance/service role as it does a research one.

It is therefore important to note that, not being a 'pure' scientific department, rewards from robotics will be less. It will earn roughly half of the RMP that other areas of science do, to compensate for the fact that its always occupied. Nevertheless it shall be rewarded, here's my plans of what for:

1. Making bots! Medibots, cleanbots, floorbots. etc. All robots built will give a small RMP reward. The rarer ones, like ED 209, will give a far larger reward, due to the difficulty and interdepartmental cooperation involved in making them.

2. Cyborgs!

All station-bound synthetics will generate small periodic RMP awards, as long as there is an active roboticist. It's assumed that there is scientific value in operating, maintaining and observing them

3, Exosuits

Constructing an exosuit is a major investment of time, energy, and resources. It deserves to be rewarded, and it shall be. Any exosuit made will be rewarded with RMP. The ripley and odysseus, being more common, will generate a much smaller reward than the much-rarer exosuits like durand, gygax, etc.

4. Fabrication:

Much like the protolathe, building stuff in the robotics fabricators will be rewarded. Similar rules apply: Rewards based on materials used, bonus for unique things, penalty for repetition.

Xenobiology

I have some big plans for this.

Currently, xenobio is siime farming simulator 2012

There's not necessarily anything wrong with that, and i certainly won't get rid of the slimes, although there are some bugs and improvements that can be worked on.

However, i believe xenobio should have a broader role, and RP ive seen over the past year seems to agree. Xenobio is the premier authority on wierd shit. People drag something there when they don't know where else to put it. Changelings, borers, geiger-xenos, etc. I like that element and plan to expand upon it, giving it the additional role of general 'place to study wierd creatures'.

To that end, i have a smaller project planned to add to it, which was unveiled earlier to a mixed reception

http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7354

http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7349

This project is still on the books, and the creature scanner is intended to be one of the primary ways that Xenobiology will earn RMP.

1. Analysing creatures. As mentioned this would involve the creature scanner which i'd like to add. Analysing the same type of creature up to three times will yield research points. (Note, that's up to three creatures of the same species, not the same creature 3x)

2. Slimes!

Removing and activating slime cores has plenty of research value. especially if you use them to create golems or turn a colleague into a slime creature. Rewards from slime cores will likely follow the establioshed principle - additional reward for uniqueness, less reward for repeating the same thing.

3. Captivity

I certainly intend to add some means to capture creatures alive, and possibly tame them. An overhaul of animal AI is long overdue. Keeping creatures captive - alive and fed- in xenobiology for study, should probably be rewarded]

Xenobotany

This one is a little vague at the moment, but there's a lot to work with here. our plant growing systems are pretty robust and well made, there are some improvements that could be added, particularly when it comes to mutated/modified plants, but i think not too much needs to change. Xenobotany just needs some purpose.

Rewards should probably be for growing stuff, mutating plants, modifying seeds, and, quite importantly, for correctly deducing and recording plant genes. I'll need to write a system for documenting that.

I expect most of the things for xenobotany could apply to normal (non xeno) botany in the garden too, and civilians could earn RMP for experimenting with mutating their rice plants.

[Nanako]

TECHNOLOGIES:

Until this post i've not said much about the details of upcoming technologies. If you hoped for more info here, then you'll be a little disappointed.

The exact details of the technologies i'm adding will not be revealed here, largely to maintain the surprise and novelty value. You can find out about all the nice stuff once it's released. What i will talk about though is the design principles involved.

Research projects is, ultimately, a mechanism for getting more mileage out of content, and a balancing framework that allows for more significant content.

In essence, the whole thing is designed to give you nice things, and nice things shall come. All of the researchable things will change how the game is played in some way, so that at any particular point in a research cycle, gameplay will be somewhat different, depending on what techs have been researched.

It is also a way to advance things, and to introduce fancy and obscure scifi concepts, without the risk of normalising them and losing the specialness.

Technologies are intendeded, overall, to benefit everyone, not just research. So technologies that only add new protolathe recipes will generally not be happening. Most of the results from a researched tech will be present at roundstart from the rest of the cycle, and in general will work themselves into broader gameplay organically.

At its base level, research projects means more content. Lots more. I'm hard at work coding and spriting tons of new features and mechanics to be unlockable through this system. Upgrades that just change numbers are boring, uninteresting, and not often worth the effort unless particularly inspired. A new machine to learn, with fancy new sprites and a function you never knew you needed, is far more interesting.

Technologies are loosely divided into six categories. These categories are of origin, not of application. they are generally intended to represent the field of science which spawned the idea. Note that these categories do not necessarily/at all correlate with station departments of similar names.

The categories are:

Physics

The study of high energy mechanics, energy fields, bluespace, teleportation, shielding, directed energy weapons, and basically just about anything to do with energy.

Chemistry:

The study of (non-medical) chemicals, new elements and compounds, materials, metallurgy and alloys, explosives, phoron, armour and ballistic weaponry, interesting reactions and properties of matter. A broad category that can encompass most things concerned with inorganic matter.

Biomedical:

The study of life, and lifeforms. Plants, animals, humans, cellular biology, viruses, and in general just about anything to do with organic matter. Any advances related to healing, medicine and generally preserving life go here, as do many kinds of poisons and toxins.

Robotics:

By far the most specific category, but allowed because the things in it are such a big part of gameplay. The robotics category is for any technology concerned with robots, androids, cyborgs, bots, positronic brains, artificial limbs and organs. Possibly also hardsuits. This is a limited scope in theory, but these things offer a LOT of potential for expansion and upgrading

Information Technology:

A broad category which is largely concerned with software, though some hardware upgrades are in it too. Techs in this category concern upgrades to AIs, pAIs, computers/laptops/tablets, apcs, consoles, PDAs, and in general behavioural and logical aspects of station systems

Engineering:

The last and most general category. The engineering area is concerned with power, atmospherics, exosuits, vehicles, voidsuits, doors, lights, APCs, pipes, and in general most physical, structural and hardware-related aspects of station systems. It tends to serve as a gathering point for techs that just don't quite fit anywhere else

Got a tech idea in mind? I'm open to it. The research system will be a good way to add new content. Just bear in mind that it has to be suitable. You must be able to ask, 'Why would NT devote research efforts to this? How does it improve peoples lives, and how does it improve gameplay?" If you have ideas that

Once this project is released, i intend to continue working on it. This is not something ill finish and move on from. This will be a framework for future content. And over the next year or so, i'd like to add a lot more unlockable stuff in various smaller updates, which will often include revamping and altering existing mechanics to make room for expansion.

Your contributions are welcome, and i have recently done a major audit of the suggestions forum, going back at least a couple years, to dig up potential ideas for this

[Orr404]

Love this idea can't wait to see it. I'm wondering though does the physics category also include the lack of energy things like absolute zero. Would there be technology to drain energy and such? Like if an area is superheated something to absorb the energy so to rapidly cool it or laser cooling so on so forth.

[Nanako]

Love this idea can't wait to see it. I'm wondering though does the physics category also include the lack of energy things like absolute zero. Would there be technology to drain energy and such?

Energy is energy

Do we have actual applications for supercooling though? I can't think of any in current mechanics

Like if an area is superheated something to absorb the energy so to rapidly cool it

Management of atmospherics is more the domain of the engineering branch. I have no current plans or applications for advanced cooling systems, let me know if you do and can explain reasoninng

or laser cooling so on so forth.

Directed energy weapons are the domain of physics and be assured i have some plans for that.

Lasers? hah

[Orr404]

I was mostly just curious. Though I think an effective way of super cooling gas might be useful to combat something like a phoron fire though I imagine a sprinkler system would have a similar effect. And lasers yes it's one of the ways right now that we use to get close to absolute zero. Also I think there would be some interesting things to learn at absolute zero I mean In theory using certain types of super cooled gasses like rubidium we could get solid light.

[Jboy2000000]

Ive not yet finished reading this, but I can already say that I don't like that idea, and Im confused on one point specifically.

For starters, the thing I hate is the 'cycle.' I don't like the whole, research over time persistence thing, research as it is not is annoying to get through, and a round is always done before science can ever get to the interesting techs to work with and roleplay out experiments, but I know other people love the idea and have wanted it forever since Boot brought the idea up... God knows how long ago.

But what Im confused about, is how do we explain the cycles. Do we just constantly reset time every single month, and stay in a time loop forever, or do we just handwave the fact that advanced technologies just don't exist anymore, not even prototypes. You could argue it's like that now, but our research isn't persistent, we don't spawn with advanced technologies, and people have, in the past, explain it as that we're not researching something new for the first time, it's that we're finding new ways to advance NanoTrasen approved prototypes in a database, and there are minute differences that go unnoticed in common use when something new is created.

But how do you explain it here? We have advanced machines spawning, becoming fully integrated into the station, and then taken away at a snap after the end of a round one day, with no trace. What happened to them, why did NT take them away, and why do we need to generate these research points again to get things that are possibly even worse than what research we have previously?

[VileFault]

But what Im confused about, is how do we explain the cycles.

We have antags who come every few rounds to blow up the station. They aren't canon. We just happily ignore their shenanigans after the round finishes, and keep all the rest of the happenings. So, ah, just think about the end of a cycle in the same way. "U didn't c nofin mate."

[Killerhurtz]

My 5 cents on this:

Library: In my eyes, the library should not only be a place where people go to get books. There's several tables around the place. It should be a general knowledge place - and to that goal, I suggest making it so that small amounts of RMP are gained for each active (non-SSD non-dead) character in the library regardless of activity - they could be reading a book, talking with a friend or playing Stations and Shitcurity at the back.

The cycles thing: To avoid the more active science staff locking in branches because they're useful, have an option to spend RMP to keep certain items unlocked between cycles. Maybe a max of N amount of items, or something. Or have the next cycle start with a very slight advantage to the most popular 3 fields, determined by averages - so that the fields with a slight advantage can change from month to month.

R&D: That might take a little bit of work, but some way of encouraging players to actually write research reports would be great. Maybe a database players could upload reports to, where the lore staff (most likely me ) would peruse and award points according to how well written it is and how creative the experiment is.

Robotics: Rename it to "Biotechnicals" and give them points for implanting tech in dummy bodies (protohumans, human bodies which never had a ckey, if these guys are ever going to come back)

Toxins: Very difficult to measure, so I suggest doing the same as R&D and have them fill reports for evaluation

Telescience: Passive RMP for up to 2 scientists in Telescience room, bonus points for reaching further with the teleporter, bonus points for reaching other Z-levels

Xenoarcheology: Again, reports on the artifacts they discover for bonus points.

Xenobotany: Passive RMP gain per plant planted, with bonus RMP depending on how different from the original plant the genome is. And if you want to go that far - more bonus points for creating a genome that was never created before.

Xenobiology: For this, I'd say implement a system similar to Cargo - where they can send cores/resources to storage, and get RMP for it. Cores would be low, while frost oil/plasteel/phoron/an activated yellow core and so on would be a bit more expensive. And of course, to prevent abuse, some way to count "outside" materials as 0 points probably.

Virology: Bonus RMP for strains that never have been generated before. Passive RMP for monkeys that are producing antibodies to something.

I know it's a tall order but... Bring back Genetics too? :3

Oh, and to be honest - there should be passive RMP generation for each bound synthetic there is (AI/cyborgs) considering how high-tech they are (and how much processing power the AIs got)

As for techs - I'm your man to write the blurbs or even make tech up for these needs

Extra research fields, or addendums to existing fields:

-Data theory: Relating to everything data. From better data storage (for more machines mayhaps?) to maybe straight up usable computers for notes (and long-term storage of data) to better means of communications (upgrades to T-Comms that make it harder to take down/more resistant to random events? Headsets that can act as bounced radios?)

-Industrial Technology: Everything automation. Allows to fabricate conveyor belts and configurable machines that could mass-produce a certain item if configured properly and needed. Also allows greatly increasing efficiency of all production machines (engineering pipe machines, autolathes, protolathes, circuit printers, exosuit printers, so on). Also helps greatly increasing the efficiency of, or just fixing, mining.

-Kinetics: If physics have everything to do with energy, kinetics have everything to do with motion (or the lack thereof). They would include things like portable gravity generators, fabrication of magboots, fabrication (and perfection) of ballistic firearms, fabrication of mass drivers, so on. But also, most likely, non-material non-energy armors/suits (like hardsuits) and so on.

-Sociodynamics: Literally a field of science dedicated to making the crew's life better - from better food machines to hologames to fixing/remaking the holodeck.

-Physics: Yes, add supercooling. Because the field has to do with energy, mayhaps some sort of supercooled room with an energy storage grid could be done? Hmm? Hmm? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) Also I don't know if it still kills them, but supercooling could have useful applications for slime control. Also if you need even more ideas for physics application, PM me on Discord I have lots of them maybe even too many of them.

As for how to explain that they no longer are available? It's part of NT's protocols to stimulate innovation.

I'll probably come back later

[Chada1]

I personally love the idea, but one major problem has thoroughly disturbed me. As said in the thread, you expect and even want people to slowly work towards unlocking technology of varying RMP cost. But I don't see how that'll be possible if any RD can come onto the Station, and potentially spend all of the RMP on whatever they want, and without even knowing the current goal of the previous Directors with the point-stockpile. I asked if you had a solution already planned, I received no answer. So, i'm going to assume you don't, and suggest my own, because when I have a problem with something, I generally try to think up a solution.

Solution 1: This is the most viable, in my opinion.

Give all RMP technology an 'Investment' of points before they're unlocked, as opposed to a static 'Unlock' and point siphon. The points 'Invested' would be locked in, until either the technology was unlocked, or the cycle was reset. This would be possible to code in most other game Engines and Codebases, but I don't know about Space Station 13 and Baystation. That said, for something all about persistence, this is the best solution in my opinion. Point investment couldn't be retracted, once the resources have been spent researching said technology, it's not like you can just say 'Nope, we're scrapping that' and get all your money back, afterall. This would directly show the technologies people are striving for to ANY Director, and they would have the option of either helping in the development of said technology, or branching out with their own saved RMP from the shift they're directing, they would be unable to remove the progress of other RDs, and only able to progress their own Agenda. This would encourage Directors from multiple shifts to invest in the most useful technologies and coordinate multiple branches like you want, as opposed to just saving a ton of 'stockpiled' points that can be spent by any Director, anytime. Do note, in this case, it would probably be best to make un-spent points from rounds be added to the main stockpile of RMP for the next round, as opposed to just being... bluespaced into nothingness.

Solution 2: This is not a great idea.

Captain/Admin Approval. When RMP is spent, a Captain or Admin could verify the transaction, I personally don't like this idea at all, because it puts unnecessary strain on the Staff for normal gameplay, or requires the highest standing figure on the Exodus (Or Active Captain) to authorise it. That's pretty much all I can think to talk about with that one. If I think up more 'Solutions' to this issue, i'll edit or post.

[Wesmas]

This does sound great. It might actually encorage people to play science, because it sounds more meaningful. Adding more stuff to the tech tree over time would make it better, though t he balance for how much is possible to unlock may be effected.

I do worry about the RP explanation. We will have doctors telling research to make better scanners, which wouldnt make any RP sense, and the removing of stuff every month, while needed for coding limits, does through cannonicity into question. Also, how would antag actions effect this system?

As for the question about spending points, what about a written note or in game chat which lasts for the cycle, where each RD can say what they were planning on going for. They could then read what the plan was and respond to the ideas, as well as adding to the discussion.

[VileFault]

Maybe a database players could upload reports to, where the lore staff (most likely me ) would peruse and award points according to how well written it is and how creative the experiment is.

I like this idea. It seems like a good think to stick on the WI. It also seems like most of the code could be copied from the contracts database, since it already conveniently links Byond IDs to persistent documents.

The way I see it, this would almost be like incentivized lore submissions. Things that are especially good could be canonized. Ah! The possibilities are endless! Hurtz and I could ICly contact the project heads to clarify things and square everything off with previous research. "NT approved" research papers could be archived for all to see. We could even put out jobs to confirm data or further study a certain subject for extra points! Fraudulent papers could be reported by colleagues, and would involve CCIAA investigations and firings! But research papers over multiple rounds could pull in loads of points.

I think we have really hit on something good here, though I would have to really make an effort not to be too anal-retentive with a tool like this. There are a few mechanical things we would have to iron out (can anyone post these, or should a research director have to fax it to central or post it with the other authors listed), but this has me all excited!

ADDENDUM: I like Chada's idea for investing points a little... but yes, Nanako has a console planned that will allow RDs to leave notes to each other. And these are all head whitelisted players who can be held accountable for such things. There should also be a log of who spends what.

[Chada1]

ADDENDUM: I like Chada's idea for investing points a little... but yes, Nanako has a console planned that will allow RDs to leave notes to each other. And these are all head whitelisted players who can be held accountable for such things. There should also be a log of who spends what.

 

I didn't know about the Console, but can you really punish someone for spending RMP, on something they think is a better choice than what is currently being targetted? That's why I don't think a Static number is a good idea, people who abuse the access to the whole pool, even with good intentions, will likely get bwoinked over it. Still, my idea is there. I still like it, and if I can think of how to improve on it at all, i'll edit it. It'll give Directors their own pool to invest from, instead of a shared pool with all Directors everywhere, altho they could still do that, if they wanted.

[Nanako]

For starters, the thing I hate is the 'cycle.' I don't like the whole, research over time persistence thing, research as it is not is annoying to get through, and a round is always done before science can ever get to the interesting techs to work with and roleplay out experiments,

 

i dont quite understand this. You dont like the cycle, you dont like persistence,

research is/is not annoying? I cant decipher that

Then you complain about rounds ending before much science can be done. doesnt that mean you'd prefer persistence?

I really have no idea what this is trying to say

 

But what Im confused about, is how do we explain the cycles. Do we just constantly reset time every single month, and stay in a time loop forever,

 

That ios roughly how i imagiend it yes. each new loop is a fresh start to rewrite history and a chance to be the discoverer of a thing.

Its really not much diffferent to what we have now, but a longer period (a month vs two hours) makes 'discovering' things seem a lot less disingenuous

What is canon/carried over/etc, will probably be at administrative discretion

 

But how do you explain it here? We have advanced machines spawning, becoming fully integrated into the station, and then taken away at a snap after the end of a round one day, with no trace. What happened to them, why did NT take them away, and why do we need to generate these research points again to get things that are possibly even worse than what research we have previously?

 

The full implementation of machines and devides is intended as a representation of advanced development. The advanced health scanners you've dicovered arent just a theoretical discovery, your work and testing has made it possible to move into full production and distribution, you've created mature technology that is ready to be issued to employees to improve station productivity

As for how to explain the loss, i think other posters covered that quite well. Retcon, it never happened, wasn't canon, butiness as usual. Selectively writing things out of history is something we already do every round anyway, doesnt really represent a change in policy

[Nanako]

But I don't see how that'll be possible if any RD can come onto the Station, and potentially spend all of the RMP on whatever they want

dont worryyy, partial spending is in.

if you want X and don't have enough, you can throw everything you have so far at it and pay the rest at a later time

[Nanako]

Extra research fields, or addendums to existing fields:

-Data theory: Relating to everything data. From better data storage (for more machines mayhaps?) to maybe straight up usable computers for notes (and long-term storage of data) to better means of communications (upgrades to T-Comms that make it harder to take down/more resistant to random events? Headsets that can act as bounced radios?)

-Industrial Technology: Everything automation. Allows to fabricate conveyor belts and configurable machines that could mass-produce a certain item if configured properly and needed. Also allows greatly increasing efficiency of all production machines (engineering pipe machines, autolathes, protolathes, circuit printers, exosuit printers, so on). Also helps greatly increasing the efficiency of, or just fixing, mining.

-Kinetics: If physics have everything to do with energy, kinetics have everything to do with motion (or the lack thereof). They would include things like portable gravity generators, fabrication of magboots, fabrication (and perfection) of ballistic firearms, fabrication of mass drivers, so on. But also, most likely, non-material non-energy armors/suits (like hardsuits) and so on.

-Sociodynamics: Literally a field of science dedicated to making the crew's life better - from better food machines to hologames to fixing/remaking the holodeck.

-Physics: Yes, add supercooling. Because the field has to do with energy, mayhaps some sort of supercooled room with an energy storage grid could be done? Hmm? Hmm? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) Also I don't know if it still kills them, but supercooling could have useful applications for slime control. Also if you need even more ideas for physics application, PM me on Discord I have lots of them maybe even too many of them.

As for how to explain that they no longer are available? It's part of NT's protocols to stimulate innovation.

I'll probably come back later

 

I might have miscommunicated there, oops! I listed the tech categories to give a frsamework for tech ideas, i was looking for ideas on researchable techs to fit within them, not for new tech fields.

The categories will be used to visually divide the tech tree so can't have too many of them, i used to have seven but rolled security into other areas

I'd say these suggestions are somewhat redundant given the listed categories:

Data Theory: Information Technology.

Industrial tech: Engineering (though that might be a better name for it)

Kinetics: Physics

Sociodynamics: Things in that area will generally be divided among several categories

more ideas are always welcome though

Right now, i am especially interested in ideas for the Biomedical and Information Technology fields. These two are the ones most lacking in viable things

Ill respond to the rest of your post soon, its great and full of awesome things, ive not forgotten it!

[icy_dew]

But I don't see how that'll be possible if any RD can come onto the Station, and potentially spend all of the RMP on whatever they want

dont worryyy, partial spending is in.

if you want X and don't have enough, you can throw everything you have so far at it and pay the rest at a later time

i think they ment if one RD shows up, and then spends all RMP at once.

[Nanako]

But I don't see how that'll be possible if any RD can come onto the Station, and potentially spend all of the RMP on whatever they want

dont worryyy, partial spending is in.

if you want X and don't have enough, you can throw everything you have so far at it and pay the rest at a later time

i think they ment if one RD shows up, and then spends all RMP at once.

MY position is thus:

Spending RMP is the sole privilege of whoever is the research director, and they may spend any remaining RMP at any time, regardless of where it came from. functionality will be provided to spend any remaining RMP on partially purchasing a tech, allowing you to end a shift with 0 RMP remaining. If you don't do this, any RMP left at the end of the shift is fair game for whoever comes after you, you don't own it, or have any claim to it, and you wont have a say in how its spent if you're not RD next round.

Unless you feel clueless about what to buy and would rather leave the choice to someone else, it would be most prudent to spend your leftover RMP at the end of a shift, and finish with zero remaining

[Nanako]

Regarding Reports

I'm not against the idea of a system for research reports, per se. but right now i remain unconvinced that its a good idea either. And as the girl who's gonna have to code it, thats not so good.

My experience with paperwork in general, is that its often just viewed as a burden, most people ive observed filling in forms only do so when someone else forces them to, ive never heard anyone talk delightedly about the intense paperwork gameplay. If the feature didnt exist now and someone wanted to add it, i wouldn't personally support adding corporate forms

Creative Writing in research reports is a bit more enjoyable, but i'm not convinced it'd really be used that much or be worth the effort, even with incentive. And right now we have a hard enough time getting people to contribute to the library, i'm not sure a database of reports would see much action.

Farther to that theres also the issue of resetting. Do we wipe reports every month too? if so why even save them, the chance of anyone reading them is miniscule. Heck, most REAL scientific publications are read by less than ten people in the world. I can only envision that number being worse for fictional reports in a limited community. Even if they're not wiped

And if they arent wiped there would be an eventual problem of repetition. How many times can someone write a report on the chemical properties of phoron?

This isnt a flat no, but i'm very skeptical of this idea, and right now my cuirrent belief is that a persistent database of research reports would not be worth the effort. My effort specifically, which is whats required here. I have more exciting aspects of this massive project to work on

[Chada1]

But I don't see how that'll be possible if any RD can come onto the Station, and potentially spend all of the RMP on whatever they want

dont worryyy, partial spending is in.

if you want X and don't have enough, you can throw everything you have so far at it and pay the rest at a later time

 

This was my issue, and my idea. So long as each RD can dump their points into their desired branch, instead of being absolutely forced to save until they could afford the desired research, there's no issue at all. So problem already solved. Will post again if I have any ideas or further problems.

One idea: Give a very very small bonus for linking Cyborgs to the AI, there's far too little reason to do that in the game currently, to the point that most Roboticists don't bother, when they should do it by default. It's just a slight maintenance, and you can't really encourage maintenance cycles (I know the basic limitations of coding, that would be difficult) or anything like would be realistic, so this is probably the closest thing TBH and gives an RMP trickle for AI existence.

 

i think they ment if one RD shows up, and then spends all RMP at once.

 

Kinda, I meant that if the costs were Static, and the pool universal, when saving for the higher-tier techs, you'd run the risk of another Director deciding to spend it all on something else. But as explained by Nanako, it's not Static, you can partially spend, and so it's not an issue.

[Nanako]

Library: In my eyes, the library should not only be a place where people go to get books. There's several tables around the place. It should be a general knowledge place - and to that goal, I suggest making it so that small amounts of RMP are gained for each active (non-SSD non-dead) character in the library regardless of activity - they could be reading a book, talking with a friend or playing Stations and Shitcurity at the back.

 

This is good, i may do this

 

The cycles thing: To avoid the more active science staff locking in branches because they're useful, have an option to spend RMP to keep certain items unlocked between cycles. Maybe a max of N amount of items, or something. Or have the next cycle start with a very slight advantage to the most popular 3 fields, determined by averages - so that the fields with a slight advantage can change from month to month.

 

Hmm, i;m not quite seeing the purpose of this, allowing things to stretch beyond the current cycle just seems to undermine the principles

Even if a certain tech is deemed so awesome that it must be gotten every time, theres still a period where they'll have to do without it, and that is contrast. techs that are repeatedly taken early may also see rebalancing to make them more expensive

Telescience: Passive RMP for up to 2 scientists in Telescience room, bonus points for reaching further with the teleporter, bonus points for reaching other Z-levels

is it difficult to reach other zlevels? i didnt think there was an issue with that?

I know it's a tall order but... Bring back Genetics too? :3

 

this and virology i'm not sure about, because they are closely linked, i'm sure we'll have them back at some point and ill include them, but that may be after asteroid map is done

 

Oh, and to be honest - there should be passive RMP generation for each bound synthetic there is (AI/cyborgs) considering how high-tech they are (and how much processing power the AIs got)

 

already planned

[Fire and Glory]

Just give Telescience RMP for teleporting and receiving things, you get diminishing returns for teleporting things into and out of the same "area" (like 'space', or 'bridge'.), so people'd actually have to shift coordinates, you get a lot more RMP if you're teleporting and receiving mobs, mayhaps even a little bit more if they're humanoid mobs.

[Wesmas]

What about giving points for every book uploaded into a non fiction catagory? So, if science writes a paper, it goes onto the book database and a small ammount of points are given. Depending on how that system works, you could then try to do a peer review system too.

[Bedshaped]

I was hoping this system could finally give us Physics and Theoretical Physics research. Maybe telescience isn't enabled by default until it's been researched?

[sonicgotnuked]

Maybe we can have a system where the RDs can put a will into the system for what they want the other RDs to spend the points on. And you can probably have another system on the head Whitelist fourm, or a section for the wills.