Sean Richter - Black/Tricolor Beret

[CommanderXor]

BYOND Key: CommanderXor

Character name: Sean Richter

Item name: Black Military Beret

Why is your character carrying said item to work? He use to, and still supports the old ideals of 'independence' for 'Ireland'. In reality this just stems to more influence for that certain cultural group than there currently is. After joining up with like minded individuals and studying history, he decided in the past to have uniforms and berets made for him and his small group. He can only really bring his old beret given the fact a Warden has to be in standard uniform at all times. Which doesn't include a hat, most of the time. So he brings it along to remind himself of old times where he didn't have to worry about much, and the old friendships and comradeships he held.

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Item function(s): It's simply a reskinned beret that goes on the head.

Item description: A old black beret, a tri-color pin is attached to the front. Still soft to the touch.

Item appearance: I don't exactly have any sprites, sadly. But I have a reference image.

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How will you use this to better interact with crew and/or stimulate RP? Well, anyone with old knowledge of history might be able to recognise where it is from. But really, it'll be so people will be able to ask what it is and he can talk about his backstory and younger childhood/teenhood. It'll also give him something to elaborate on while the mood/situation is silent and stagnant.

Additional comments: I don't really have anything else to add beyond it being a beret and I lack sprites for it.

[coolbc2000]

I assume this is all has a IRA back-round, which is fine I don't mind it at all. Just my question is, would the IRA still be in Irish peoples minds four centuries after that terrible date? I'ed like to think not, and I certinly think there won't be any "Groups" like the IRA around. Sure it is History, but... Not one that lasts a long while.

[CommanderXor]

I assume this is all has a IRA back-round, which is fine I don't mind it at all. Just my question is, would the IRA still be in Irish peoples minds four centuries after that terrible date? I'ed like to think not, and I certinly think there won't be any "Groups" like the IRA around. Sure it is History, but... Not one that lasts a long while.

I mean, no matter how much you try, nationalism/patriotism will always be around. It's more a sign of 'hey, I still support this 'country' even after all this'. So it's less about being a rebel and blowing shit up and more about just remembering back to the modern age.

[Scheveningen]

Back to the modern age of blowing stuff up and committing radical terrorism to a parent country, over 442 years ago?

[CommanderXor]

Back to the modern age of blowing stuff up and committing radical terrorism to a parent country, over 442 years ago?

Pride in country =//= radical terrorism.

[coolbc2000]

There's nothing to be proud over the IRA mate. There's no one in Ireland that I have ever seen that supports the IRA openly, even in private I've seen fuck all. Just my experience anyway.

[Chada1]

Well I mean, this isn't really about the actual IRA, more about Richter himself. It's not the first time in history that someone clung to something potentially created with ill intentions for another purpose. In this case Richter is really just showing that he is patriotic for Ireland, and it's less about the actual IRA. It could easily mean that he doesn't support Tau Ceti breaking off from the Sol Alliance, as it mirrors Ireland being split in two itself.

Anyway, you guys are being a bit too cut and dry, as someone who plays Synths very seriously, humans aren't robots and not everything they do is logical. If Richter is part of a pseudo-IRA group, and he has a Beret, there's really nothing stopping him from bringing it to work, if it's approved. The character really doesn't need perfect jusitifications like some machine, just emotional attachment, which he has.

[Scheveningen]

My old workplaces probably wouldn't permit it if I brought an identifiable article of clothing that was iconic enough to be identified as a symbol of a domestic terror organization. It would make my employers look bad for permitting me to exercise freedom of speech to that degree, especially since it implies they support my right to support old organizations that killed, tortured and car bombed civilians to further their own agenda.

ATLAS is barely passable because they don't openly curbstomp Tajarans to the pavement.

[Chada1]

My old workplaces probably wouldn't permit it if I brought an identifiable article of clothing that was iconic enough to be identified as a symbol of a domestic terror organization. It would make my employers look bad for permitting me to exercise freedom of speech to that degree, especially since it implies they support my right to support old organizations that killed, tortured and car bombed civilians to further their own agenda.

ATLAS is barely passable because they don't openly curbstomp Tajarans to the pavement.

 

There's a Bartender with an NKA and multiple other things that could be seen as much worse seeing as the Civil War is actually going on. It's just a Beret and I seriously doubt most people even know what the IRA is. It's not noteable and it's just a recreational Beret.

It's not even a uniform. And the IRA is Not considered a terrorist organisation globally and definitely isn't in Fiction Spessman game. It's seriously just a Beret that you're applying more meaning to than anyone else is. It's not even part of Richters main uniform, as Wardens aren't expected to wear a Uniform Beret, any headwear is acceptable because they don't start with Anything on their head, and have to obtain a Beret from the Wardens Locker if they want one.

This is a non-issue and I don't know why you dislike it so much, it's literally harmless and completely up to the character if they would do this. You can even spawn with Berets if you want in the Custom Loadout, and they don't even have to be Security, nor do you have to explain to Customs why you're bringing them. They clearly fall under personal belongings.

Why the fuck is it so bad to bring a Black Beret with a neat Emblem to work, because the IRA is only considered a terrorist Organisation in two places and nowhere else, and that may not even be so in Spessman as a lot of old history is just swept under the rug. It's just a neat custom made Beret, not even a real IRA hat, and just about noone would know what it was without being told.

This 'People being unhappy' thing could actually be good ICly and cause a little verbal conflict, even. Which is furthering roleplay and what Custom items are meant to do. Why is this a problem?

It went from trying to make CommanderXor justify their characters emotional attachment with logic, to complaining that the Beret should be illegal, and that makes no sense.

[Scheveningen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Irish_Republican_Army

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_Irish_Republican_Army

https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

The RIRA is a terrorist organization, declared as such by the US government, and the UK, the former being a world superpower with one of the most extensive intelligence agencies in the world and the latter being a direct first-person source in regards to anything regarding the RIRA and the CIRA. The CIRA is also another offshoot that, not surprisingly, is also designated as a terrorist organization. Always double-check sources.

If this is fine by you then I'm going to apply for a Nazi swastika armband for one of my one-off characters. If it furthers roleplay regardless of its inherent offensiveness and historical significance of Aryan supremacy and wishing death on anyone who gets in the way of the agenda then you cannot complain about it whatsoever, because my character will be a logical eugenicist. If anyone gets offended they can shut the heck up and get over it, they'll have to deal with my character's inherent Nazism in-game.

See how utterly stupid it sounds?

Appealing to logic for an inherently negative cause is called playing the Devil's advocate and it should not be reasonably actionable, nor should it be seriously considered beyond hypothetical discussion or debate.

Wearing a symbol that is the centerpiece of a lot of death and criminal seediness will only earn you points in the edginess department, but it is no more sensible to wear to work than a swastika armband.

Not to mention: What if someone comes onto the server one day and they just so happen to be a close victim (either direct or by proxy) of the IRA's terrorist acts, and they see that character wearing an IRA beret? They won't just be ICly upset, but OOCly as well. That will cause issues. Offensive custom items should be a clear no-go. And I doubt any of the spriters here want to be responsible for unironically generating pixelart of an IRA beret, nor have that as part of their past works.

NT would never allow it in the first place.

[CommanderXor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Irish_Republican_Army

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_Irish_Republican_Army

https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

The RIRA is a terrorist organization, declared as such by the US government, and the UK, the former being a world superpower with one of the most extensive intelligence agencies in the world and the latter being a direct first-person source in regards to anything regarding the RIRA and the CIRA. The CIRA is also another offshoot that, not surprisingly, is also designated as a terrorist organization. Always double-check sources.

If this is fine by you then I'm going to apply for a Nazi swastika armband for one of my one-off characters. If it furthers roleplay regardless of its inherent offensiveness and historical significance of Aryan supremacy and wishing death on anyone who gets in the way of the agenda then you cannot complain about it whatsoever, because my character will be a logical eugenicist. If anyone gets offended they can shut the heck up and get over it, they'll have to deal with my character's inherent Nazism in-game.

See how utterly stupid it sounds?

Appealing to logic for an inherently negative cause is called playing the Devil's advocate and it should not be reasonably actionable, nor should it be seriously considered beyond hypothetical discussion or debate.

Wearing a symbol that is the centerpiece of a lot of death and criminal seediness will only earn you points in the edginess department, but it is no more sensible to wear to work than a swastika armband.

Not to mention: What if someone comes onto the server one day and they just so happen to be a close victim (either direct or by proxy) of the IRA's terrorist acts, and they see that character wearing an IRA beret? They won't just be ICly upset, but OOCly as well. That will cause issues. Offensive custom items should be a clear no-go. And I doubt any of the spriters here want to be responsible for unironically generating pixelart of an IRA beret, nor have that as part of their past works.

NT would never allow it in the first place.

You do understand he isn't actually apart of the IRA, right? It's a simple black beret with a small pin on it. It's like what others do, it's a piece of made clothing, others dress up all the damn time. You have people dress up all the time in real life. By your own logic if NT wouldn't allow it, why would they allow someone to wear a NKA uniform where there is a active civil war that could easily cause conflict? Your own logic would apply to other items that have been accepted.

You're forgetting this is a space man simulation game, if someone is offended by a bunch of pixels and some coding, then so be it. I highly doubt a item will cause such controversy unless it was indeed a actual Swastika armband. But hey, everyone treats ATLAS like Nazis as well, so we basically already have that. Honestly, I feel like you're coming in here to stir up a bunch of trouble because you don't like my characters nor my playstyle, fine by me. But don't let it cause you to shit all over something and try to find every little knook and cranney reason you can pull up to say 'NUH-UH, THIS IS A BADMAMN'. Because frankly it's childish. You're grabbing at the air for reasons here. Reasons they can easily be applied to past SUCESSFUL applicants.

It's a beret with a Irish triflag pin on it. Nothing more, nothing less. No where in the post do I even MENTION the IRA. It's a black beret with a bloody tri-colour pin on it. It's like calling someone a Nazi because they wear a fieldcap just because the German Panzerkorps were known to wear them. It doesn't bloody make sense. The reference image is the only damn thing that even RELATES to Ireland.

[Chada1]

It's a black beret with a bloody tri-colour pin on it.

 

Seriously? It's not even related to the IRA vaguely? If it's only a Black Beret with an Irish flag pin attached, we're just derailing this thread over nothing, seeing as being Irish and proud is Not a crime.

[CommanderXor]

It's a black beret with a bloody tri-colour pin on it.

 

Seriously? It's not even related to the IRA vaguely? If it's only a Black Beret with an Irish flag pin attached, we're just derailing this thread over nothing, seeing as being Irish and proud is Not a crime.

Nope, nothing to do with the IRA. Literally just a black beret with a flag pin on it.

[coolbc2000]

Ah pardon me then, I'm Irish myself and I was kinda skeptical about it, because you did not deny me when I asked if it's a IRA thing. All good, nice beret too.

[CommanderXor]

Ah pardon me then, I'm Irish myself and I was kinda skeptical about it, because you did not deny me when I asked if it's a IRA thing. All good, nice beret too.

Nah, nothing to do with the IRA. Hell, I didn't even specific WHICH colours are on the pin. Literally just picked that reference image since it was the closet thing I could find to describe it.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

A 400 year old terrorist organization (since this is heavy IRA in all but name) could possible be romanticized, but we can't escape the fact that it's still the 21st century at the time of posting, and there are people who are still affected by IRA actions. It would be poor taste to ask for an al qaeda beret, or a taliban beret, or a Klu Klux Klan beret, etc.

While feasibly it's possible a foreign star system wouldn't catch a 400 year old reference from another star system entirely, there's still.... The why?

A better way to pitch this beret in a more topical way would be to find an Earth First analogy. Despite being the homeworld, Earth's many cultural identities are deregulated to 2nd class importance. Nationalism has stepped up a level - individual nations are irrelevant because of their size and scope. Show your pride in Earth, which would also get you into conflict with the natives of Tau Ceti, since the Alliance invaded the place not even a month ago.

[CommanderXor]

A 400 year old terrorist organization (since this is heavy IRA in all but name) could possible be romanticized, but we can't escape the fact that it's still the 21st century at the time of posting, and there are people who are still affected by IRA actions. It would be poor taste to ask for an al qaeda beret, or a taliban beret, or a Klu Klux Klan beret, etc.

While feasibly it's possible a foreign star system wouldn't catch a 400 year old reference from another star system entirely, there's still.... The why?

A better way to pitch this beret in a more topical way would be to find an Earth First analogy. Despite being the homeworld, Earth's many cultural identities are deregulated to 2nd class importance. Nationalism has stepped up a level - individual nations are irrelevant because of their size and scope. Show your pride in Earth, which would also get you into conflict with the natives of Tau Ceti, since the Alliance invaded the place not even a month ago.

Richter was born on Earth. Your last paragraph can easily be explained as a reason. I simply said he had it so he could remember old times. Which, can easily be exactly remembering Earth's old cultures. This isn't a IRA beret though. It's a simple black beret with a tri-colour pin. It makes sense for him to 'catch a 400 year old reference' because he learned his country's history. Like most people, at school you learn about your country, normally in depth.

[Scheveningen]

If your character has studied the country's history he would be much more cautious about wearing a beret of his home country romanticizing about his country's independence, because that would still give off vibes of IRA support, as in the modern day that is a current issue to support a terrorist organization that currently still uses the same language to push their agenda violently.

[CommanderXor]

If your character has studied the country's history he would be much more cautious about wearing a beret of his home country romanticizing about his country's independence, because that would still give off vibes of IRA support, as in the modern day that is a current issue to support a terrorist organization that currently still uses the same language to push their agenda violently.

Again, it's not a IRA beret. It's a black beret with a damn flag pin on it. You're jumping to conclusions here. At no point have I even mentioned the IRA in my application.

[Scheveningen]

Why is your character carrying said item to work? He use to, and still supports the old ideals of 'independence' for 'Ireland'. In reality this just stems to more influence for that certain cultural group than there currently is. After joining up with like minded individuals and studying history, he decided in the past to have uniforms and berets made for him and his small group.

 

You understand this still gives off the same vibes, correct?

I highly suggest you review it and make changes as necessary.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

[CommanderXor]

We can see the exact same beret on a person from the reference image. Literally typed 'black paramilitary beret' (Since I didn't want stuff like the SAS from WW2) and posted what I found. Nothing to do with the IRA ICly.

[canon35]

Here's the thing about the beret. Is it really worth having a stink over? A black beret with a ancient flag (ICly ancient) flag wouldn't cause issues on the station, and having just a black beret with the descript of "oh it's some odd flag" wouldn't harm anyone.

Compare this to other items. Military fatigues tied to regimes that commit atrocities, a Order that harasses the down trodden of their society, a black beret is nothing ICly.

[CommanderXor]

Have to withdraw his application since I was banned by staff.

[Faris]

Have to withdraw his application since I was banned by staff.

 

The ban is temporary and is in no way forcing you to withdraw this application.