Make Armour and Spacesuits Take Time to Equip

[Superiorform]

What it says on the tin. We shouldn't be able to immediately equip spacesuits, especially in space, and I often see it powergamed with people going into the backpacks and putting on armour when faced with a gun, or taking off armour to move somewhere, then putting it back on. This goes doubly so for captain and security voidsuits.

[Diggey]

Oh god this has put a hillarious image in my head of someone just slipping in and out of armor during a firefight

[Conspiir]

*Pop* I has armor now.

I agree with this suggestion. It makes sense.

[Pacmandevil]

I -1 this for the sole reason this adds very little, if anything to the game, and just serves to be another "you have to stand still for x time to wear something"

I can't wait untill we have to sit still for 30 seconds to eat food.

[JamOfBoy]

+1. You said it yourself that people powergame this sort of stuff. Heck, I once did it after I fell on the asteroid to stop my bleeding. While in space. And I was fine.

If not for space-related suits and all their space-related accessories, definitely for armour vests - although, an alternative (and slightly less effective) solution to this would be to make armour vests too big for storage, to stop people pulling them out of nowhere.

[Kaed]

I -1 this for the sole reason this adds very little, if anything to the game, and just serves to be another "you have to stand still for x time to wear something"

I can't wait untill we have to sit still for 30 seconds to eat food.

 

Wow, uh.

That's a cool comparison, man. Food, which is 95% roleplay flavortext, is definitely in the same category as armor, which will literally keep you alive in a dangerous situation.

I don't see any particular reason why having to take a few seconds to take on and off a bulky piece of armor that significantly reduces damage and/or keeps you alive in a vacuum you take does anything but reduce cheese tactics.

[Exia]

+1 Vests should take a short-ish time to put on and take off though when compared to hardsuits and voidsuits.

[Skull132]

I'm unsure as to what effect this would have on muh gameplay.

On the one hand, it could be minimal. Ergo, why even bother for that tiny nuissance. But I'm more inclined to think that it'd be a bit of a pain in the left buttock. And we certainly don't want any pain there. Most gameplay elements in SS13 are relatively fast: equipping guns, readying guns, can you notice I focus in on the guns? Because the situations where this would prove a major balancing issue would be whenever you're being chased by people with guns. Or weapons in general. If this were made a thing, then it should be applied to all inventory modifications:

• Removing items from storage.
• Putting items into storage.
  
• Equipping items onto your person. (Hands excluded.)
  
• Taking items off of your person. (Hands excluded.)
  

 

Otherwise, the balancing would be no-no-bueno.

[Diggey]

If this were made a thing, then it should be applied to all inventory modifications:

 

Now I am torn

Because you are speaking strictly about gameplay implications and how much it would suck as a player to get caught out and chased but as a roleplayer I think getting caught out should be an option

I feel like if my character was caught out, them dying, even though they had armor specifically to avoid that, wouldn't put a wrench in my soup

it all depends on how much you want a cohesive story over gameplay

if you are the captain and you were jumped by some ahole with a plasma lance, running around a bend and putting on your combat armour and it not working instantly puts a great dilemma here

from a story standpoint the antag player managed to surprise the captain and has the upper hand,the captain wasn't prepared for this and technically he should be able to gain access to whatever he wants from the cap

from a gameplay standpoint the captain managed to escape and should get a fighting chance to robust the antag and literally save the entire station

Captain's ID is strong yo

[Skull132]

Now I am torn

Because you are speaking strictly about gameplay implications and how much it would suck as a player to get caught out and chased but as a roleplayer I think getting caught out should be an option

I feel like if my character was caught out, them dying, even though they had armor specifically to avoid that, wouldn't put a wrench in my soup

it all depends on how much you want a cohesive story over gameplay

if you are the captain and you were jumped by some ahole with a plasma lance, running around a bend and putting on your combat armour and it not working instantly puts a great dilemma here

from a story standpoint the antag player managed to surprise the captain and has the upper hand,the captain wasn't prepared for this and technically he should be able to gain access to whatever he wants from the cap

from a gameplay standpoint the captain managed to escape and should get a fighting chance to robust the antag and literally save the entire station

Captain's ID is strong yo

 

Let me be more specific. I'm fine with being caught out, but it should not arbitrarily apply to specific things. In our case, we're thinking of arbitrarily applying it to armour and spacesuits: things which provide an advantage in specific situations. But we're not applying it to other things which would still make sense: guns and actually general inventory management.

Gameplay should be consistent and reasonable. So either apply it to the entire inventory system, or keep it as it is.

[Doc]

I think the primary difference between armor (or perhaps anything in the outer-wear slot) and weapons is, specifically, that you need to put it on. You don't need to put on a gun to use it, or meds, or any other item you would use in combat that I can think of besides armor. You just take it out and pull the trigger. That is, at it's base, quite different from the idea of immediately slipping on an entire armored voidsuit while running down a hallway. This would essentially only apply to the outer-wear slot, and I don't see it as unreasonable at all. It's completely realistic for someone to be able to pull a gun out of their bag faster than someone else can zip open, slip on, and re-secure an armored vest to their person. In fact, I think that could to fun RP scenarios- it's significantly easier for an antag to deal with (and therefore RP with) someone they know they have the upper hand on than someone that could feasibly become a complete threat to them in a literal instant when they decide to put on combat armor. Assuming the antag doesn't just gank them anyway.

Of important note is the fact that this essentially doesn't apply to security or command for a majority of, though certainly not all, situations. When the code goes red, I'd expect most security officers and command staff that have armor available to them to keep it on them just about all the time, and therefore this doesn't necessarily impede them in any way as it'd only tack on 3-5-10 (whatever is decided to be reasonable) seconds while still in the armory.

Therefore, this mostly impedes cheesy non-security validhunter vigilante (and at times antag) tactics, as well as actually giving antags the ability to reasonably take hostages/rob someone (I don't think I've ever seen anyone get robbed, ever, unless it's a disarm-steal maneuver) without just beating the victim to the ground and then doing so.

[Skull132]

Well, you didn't read my post.

As said, stuff moving in and out of hands would be not affected. The timers would come in for equipping items to and out of clothing positions (putting on gloves, zipping into a jumpsuit, etcetera, etcetera), and for inventory modification, like taking things out of and putting them into satchels, pockets, etcetera. It would also make belt and pocket storage more important, as they'd be faster, if not instant.

Addendum: there's absoloutely no point in specifically restricting armour and related if zipping on a jumpsuit takes the same, if not more amount of time than putting on a combat vest.

[Superiorform]

Now I am torn

Because you are speaking strictly about gameplay implications and how much it would suck as a player to get caught out and chased but as a roleplayer I think getting caught out should be an option

I feel like if my character was caught out, them dying, even though they had armor specifically to avoid that, wouldn't put a wrench in my soup

it all depends on how much you want a cohesive story over gameplay

if you are the captain and you were jumped by some ahole with a plasma lance, running around a bend and putting on your combat armour and it not working instantly puts a great dilemma here

from a story standpoint the antag player managed to surprise the captain and has the upper hand,the captain wasn't prepared for this and technically he should be able to gain access to whatever he wants from the cap

from a gameplay standpoint the captain managed to escape and should get a fighting chance to robust the antag and literally save the entire station

Captain's ID is strong yo

 

Let me be more specific. I'm fine with being caught out, but it should not arbitrarily apply to specific things. In our case, we're thinking of arbitrarily applying it to armour and spacesuits: things which provide an advantage in specific situations. But we're not applying it to other things which would still make sense: guns and actually general inventory management.

Gameplay should be consistent and reasonable. So either apply it to the entire inventory system, or keep it as it is.

 

You know what? That's absolutely fine by me. I would like to see this applied to all combat items. One cannot instantly reach into his bag and draw an SMG, and I have been fucked over many a time by players that have done this, as antag and sec. If we knew that an unarmed person could not become a massive threat at a moment's notice, we could do much more interesting things. It would mean security would have to work around with their guns drawn on red. Different things could take different times, of course, depending on the item, and where it is being drawn from. A pistol from a holster, or a knife from a pocket shouldn't take very long at all, whereas a crossbow from the back should take a few seconds at least.

[Skull132]

> All combat items.

sighs

I will say this one last time. There is absoloutely no point in specifically stigmatizing combat items. The system should be logically complete and implemented with the purpose of altering gameplay pacing in general. Not as a way to stigmatize combat oriented actions.

[Superiorform]

> All combat items.

sighs

I will say this one last time. There is absoloutely no point in specifically stigmatizing combat items. The system should be logically complete and implemented with the purpose of altering gameplay pacing in general. Not as a way to stigmatize combat oriented actions.

 

I do see what you mean, and I totally understand, it comes down to differing opinions between us when we say this. I don't think making it take time to get a chocolate bar from my bag would be fun - it's just annoying. We get nothing from it. Whereas, making it apply solely to combat items does add something - the realism of not quickdrawing an assault rifle and fucking someone over. If that makes sense. Or I might be missing something.

[Doc]

Well, you didn't read my post.

As said, stuff moving in and out of hands would be not affected. The timers would come in for equipping items to and out of clothing positions (putting on gloves, zipping into a jumpsuit, etcetera, etcetera), and for inventory modification, like taking things out of and putting them into satchels, pockets, etcetera. It would also make belt and pocket storage more important, as they'd be faster, if not instant.

Addendum: there's absoloutely no point in specifically restricting armour and related if zipping on a jumpsuit takes the same, if not more amount of time than putting on a combat vest.

 

I did read your post. You're saying that other inventory management, besides armor, should also be affected, for the sake of balance, and I'm saying that the imbalance is fine because it's completely reasonable and would open up unique situations.

/shrug

That said, having read superior's post, I'm beginning to come around.

On the note of combat/non-combat items: If the system is going to be implemented at all, you might as well have it affect other items as well. Why not? It might take a total of one minute of time through-out the entire round, and then there doesn't have to been some sort of check-list of every single item in the game to see what does and doesn't need to be affected.

[Superiorform]

Actually, now that I think about it, it would seem a bit weird to take time to take a weapon from my bag, but not a chocolate bar. Hmn.