Ornias Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 To start, wizard is the most powerful antagonist in the game, with the possible exception of the ninja, which needs godlike coordination to play right. Wizards have outstanding maneuverability, which is what makes them so damn hard to kill. And their damage dealing spells tend to take down opponents in instants. But there is one wizard, who, at the table of wizards, is bullied by all. Few know his name. Few care about his story. He is the druid. Now let's look at what makes the druid so unbelievably shit. /spell/targeted/heal_target = This is actually semi-decent, but can be done by other classes who have better alternative spells. /spell/aoe_turf/conjure/mirage = Mirage actually sucks. It summons one carp. Upgrading it summons another. And again summons another. And then you can upgrade the spell once for speed. Oh, but these aren't just any carp. They're illusory carp. Meaning they're functionally identical to space carp, but do NO DAMAGE. If it summoned a fucking swarm of the things, that would be different, but it summons two. And people will constantly jump to "oh, they're just illusions, ignore them!" after one encounter. And they leave behind functional corpses for some reason. This spell is weak as fuck. Oh, and it needs clothes, so you can't even use it if arrested. And they can get in the wizards way if he needs to get somewhere. And they can't be commanded. And... etc, etc, etc. /spell/aoe_turf/conjure/summon/bats = Can only be cast once every two minutes. Needs clothes, and summons uncontrollable bats which attack everyone. Could be used, I suppose, but can be taken out by a single shot with a laser rifle, does 10 damage, and upgrading it only slightly upgrades this (still can be taken down with one shot from a laser rifle at max level). /spell/aoe_turf/conjure/summon/bear = Like bats but worse. The only value this bear has is its ability to dance, which is why you must always buy this spell as druid. But beyond that, as one of the only three summons, this is arguably THE worst fucking spell available to druid, and that includes the fucking party spell. Why? At level one, it has 15 health, and does 10 damage per hit. This means that it can be taken down by a fucking assistant with his fists without too much risk. At level two, it was 30 health and does 15. Level three, 45-20. Level four, 60-25. Level five, 75-35. Now only at level four or five does this actually become viable in combat, but then you need to consider: Bluespace bears have 130 health each, more than the maximum upgrade level. Bluespace bears can teleport. Commanding this bear to attack paints you as just a big of a target on you as the bear. You can only cast summon bear once every 5 minutes. This means when your bear dies, you get fucked by security. Oh, and it needs clothes, so when you get brigged you can't resist with it. You just get fucked, because you put all your points into a kind-of-strong simple mob who instantly declares you valid to crew. /spell/targeted/equip_item/party_hardy = A really cool spell, except for the fact that it's wasting a spell slot, and to get it to its maximum effect requires three upgrades. Which, frankly put, sucks dick, considering it has no viable use beyond giving people a drink, a pretzel, and a hat. /spell/targeted/equip_item/seed = Gives you a random seed. This is a joke spell. There is next to no time when this would ever be useful, for RP, combat, anything. /spell/aoe_turf/disable_tech = One of the good ones, but it can be gotten by other classes also. /spell/targeted/entangle = This spell is actually so bad it's laughable. It's supposed to be this cool "roots burst from the floor, ensnaring your legs! holy shit" spell, but it can be instantly resisted out of, because it's just a resprited chair. This may sound useful in a combat situation, but it's... really not. At all, because people just spam resist. Not to mention that even when used for roleplay people will just walk up and unbuckle people who they see trapped in it. Really, this spell is one of those spells which exists just to be ignored when used against someone, because pressing resist instantly undoes it. Someone can undo it when you don't want them to. And increasing the number of targets to do fuck all to when upgraded provides you with nothing whatsoever. /spell/aoe_turf/conjure/grove/sanctuary = It could be pretty decent, I suppose, considering it heals you if you eat the food in it. But it takes AGES to grow, can be taken by anybody, works slowly, and provides no defense against stuns or pain. Oh, and it also makes the area blessed like the chapel, if anyone gives two shits about that at all. But aside from that, it's slow to cast, and just paints a fuck-huge "kill me" target on you for fucking with the station. /spell/aoe_turf/knock = Again, decent, but can be done (better) by other classes. Which can teleport. /obj/structure/closet/wizard/souls = Hey, this would be pretty good. Except that it paints a huge "FUCK ME" target on your back after using it, and killing someone in the first place will be a fucking pain. /obj/item/weapon/monster_manual = MONSTER MANUAL SUCKS DICK. It is such a cool fucking concept, that costs two spell tokens to use, so you think you're going in for the coolest fucking beast imaginable. But then you cast it, and you just go flaccid immediately. Look at your options, in order: Space Crab: Wow, a crab, how cool! Resilient shell, threatening disposition, cancer jokes! Only, uh, it's slow. Not super slow, but too slow to catch up to anyone but a diona. And with only melee combat abilities, and no access, or movement advantages, a single assistant could kill it by throwing floor tiles at it over and over again. Deals 10-15 damage and has 200 health. Space Pike: Your very own pocket space carp. But space carp can move diagonally, and faster than humans can. This one is also slow - just as slow as the crab. This one is probably one of your best bets, though, because it can breathe in space, and chomp through walls. Can cast force wall to boot. 100 health and 15 damage. Can z-travel and doesn't fall. Horror: HOLY SHIT! AN ELDRITCH HORROR, JUST LIVE THE MOVIES! NOW I CAN- oh, shit, this one has literally exactly the same trouble as the others. And it has 150 health, with 10 damage. At least it can cast torment, though, so that's a bit useful I guess. Still, you're just paying 2 spell tokens for a slow-moving wall-opener and torturer. Goat: Wow, a goat. That's actually pretty cool. That really fits in with nature. Oh, and now it's dead, because it has 80 health, no movement abilities, and can only cast smoke. 8-12 damage to add insult to injury. Black Cat: Can see in the dark, and can SEE INVISIBLE. How sick is that? If anything fucking turned invisible in this game that would be really cool, but with the removal of the cloaking device only ninjas really can, and it's not like they use it much at all anyway. Oh, shit, but it has 45 health. And does 3-4 damage. Sick. The cat is actually one of the best, because it can be picked up, and can cast subjugation. Ancient Mouse: The oldest mouse in the known galaxy. 25 fucking health. 1 damage. Dies pretty much instantly if when exposed to vacuum. But, can cast two healing spells, and speak all languages. One of the best companions is a portable translator which can heal you. This spell actually fucking sucks, there's no way around that. It's a roleplay-only spell, which is fine, except that when it gets killed by one security officer with ease it won't provide any RP at all. /obj/item/weapon/contract/apprentice = Hey, it's pretty good. DRUIDS. SUCK. DICK. I understand that bears are getting a huge damage buff next update, but even with it this class is painfully underpowered just because of how bad all its spells are. Upgrade practically all of their spells. Give them no clothes requirement from birth. Whatever it takes. Just get this super, super cool class vaguely playable.
Kaed Posted September 9, 2017 Posted September 9, 2017 This is sort of derivative of two threads I recently posted, https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8775 and https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8774. These threads also offer some more precise solutions to discuss other than 'buff plz!" Though, you do admittedly cover the other spells problems in more detail.
Arrow768 Posted September 10, 2017 Posted September 10, 2017 Summon Bats / Bears has gotten a buff recently in dev. There wont be another buff until these changes are live and there is still a need to change that. https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/3348
Ornias Posted September 11, 2017 Author Posted September 11, 2017 Summon Bats / Bears has gotten a buff recently in dev. There wont be another buff until these changes are live and there is still a need to change that. https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/3348 This is pretty good, but it will still leave druids with a shit-ton of useless spells and like. 3 good ones. hyped AF tho <3 <# ,# ,#< <#3 <3
Arrow768 Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 I´ve read through the post again and noticed, that you mostly mention issues. I´d be interested in what you think should be done to solve the mentioned issues.
Butterrobber202 Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 I´ve read through the post again and noticed, that you mostly mention issues. I´d be interested in what you think should be done to solve the mentioned issues. You know Pokémon? Razor Leaf and Leech Seed
Alberyk Posted September 11, 2017 Posted September 11, 2017 I am working on more druids/changes, I will update on this soon.
Ornias Posted March 25, 2018 Author Posted March 25, 2018 I´ve read through the post again and noticed, that you mostly mention issues. I´d be interested in what you think should be done to solve the mentioned issues. Even with recent updates, this is still an issue. /spell/targeted/heal_target/sacrifice = I've never seen this used. Ever. But I guess there's no harm in it being there. /spell/targeted/mend = This is good. Keep this. /spell/aoe_turf/conjure/mirage = Two options: - Make 'summon mirage' start by summoning 5 carp, and make each upgrade go up in sets of 5 (up to 15). Carp can be walked through by the wizard but nobody else, and disappear after 20 seconds. Give it a relatively quick cooldown. - Make it summon real space carp. Give them a summon besides bats and bear. /spell/aoe_turf/conjure/summon/bats = Make it so that it can be cast once every 30 seconds, and two upgrades puts it down to 5 seconds. /spell/aoe_turf/conjure/summon/bear = Honestly, keep the time lock on it. Make this thing ripped. From stage one it should be as touch as a bluespace bear without teleporting, and should only get harder from there. The Omega Bear is basically all of your points invested; it should be stronk as fuck. /spell/targeted/equip_item/party_hardy = This spell is actually a neat concept, but not thematic. Make it an un-upgradable spell that lets you choose from a variety of party-related objects to summon on people. Make the hats it summons count as wiz hats. /spell/targeted/equip_item/seed = Get rid of it, or completely change it: nature grenades, door-locking tools, a poisonous throwing weapon. This spell is useless. /spell/aoe_turf/disable_tech = Leave it as it is lads. /spell/targeted/entangle = Change it to actually hold you in place for a few seconds. Start at 5 seconds, and make it upgrade up to 25 seconds of capture. Make sure that at max level, its cooldown is slightly shorter than its capture time, so if it's just you and one person you can hold them still indefinitely. /spell/aoe_turf/conjure/grove/sanctuary = Remove the food from it. Make it cover a larger area, and make it reduce cooldowns on spells/increase natural healing/anything to make it feel like the wizards domain. /spell/aoe_turf/knock = Keep it as it is. Maybe make it have some cool animation for flavour. /obj/structure/closet/wizard/souls = I mean, if it was possible to get these guys resprited to be more 'woodland' that would be absolutely awesome. Walking trees and stuff. But otherwise, it's fine. /obj/item/weapon/monster_manual = Make them heal naturally on their own. In addition, each one of them needs a serious upgrade: Space Crab:Make this thing even more resilient than it currently is. 300 health. 400. I'm not sure on the balance. This sounds OP, but it's melee only, and moves slower than a person. Space Pike:Make it fast as fuck boi. This guy should be a master of the hit and run. Rival a sprinting tajara when it needs to. Horror:Honestly, make it take deal 30 damage on a hit and keep it slow as fuck. Give it a 10 cooldown spell that makes the target slightly slower, but can stack. Goat: This one sucks the worst, so honestly, just do whatever. Maybe give it some cool synergies with other spells, like making it really tough when in sanctuary or make it buff other summons. Black Cat: Nine lives bitch. Let it pull a lich back to master. Ancient Mouse: How'd this guy live so long with 25 fuckin health boi? Make it immune to vacuum and give it 50 health. /spell/targeted/shapeshift/avian = THIS SUCKS SO BADLY. It makes you so weak, gives you practically no advantage, and means that an assistant can drop you dead in two hits. Shapeshift is good. Shapeshift into a bear. A gazelle. A wolf. Even a fuckin falcon. But make it so being struck down just returns you to human form. /spell/targeted/shapeshift/baleful_polymorph = I haven't actually seen this spell used lol. Might be good I guess. /spell/targeted/flesh_to_stone = This is a good spell :^) /obj/item/weapon/contract/apprentice = Still good. Beyond that, I'd advise adding some more spells to actually make the class stand on its own two legs. It needs more summons (that's one of the main advertised things for this class, but there are only two summons???). Let me summon tree peeps, some wildlife, whatever, man. It needs no clothes for one point, or for free. You can't play your nekked druid with the current setup. And, finally, it would benefit from druidic transformations. Like polymorph but good.
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