The Politics thread(Insert Trigger warning here)

[incognitojesus]

Are we talking about russia now?

http://i.imgur.com/aLKiAS9.png

[Dea Tacita]

The image is wrong, there is a tiny bit of Russia by Baltic Sea. #learnurfacts #geographyismybitch #getrekt

 

http://i.imgur.com/cfhdrZv.png

Forgot a little peice

[Farcry11]

I usually stick to one simple policy:

Stay away from /pol/acks

[canon35]

ISIS can suck a dick.

[hivefleetchicken]

ISIL can definitely suck a dick.

Like, those guys are /worth/ killing.

[incognitojesus]

Yeah! Let's get 'em, guize!

 

[Farcry11]

I'm of the personal belief that Vladimir Putin is in fact the avatar of God on Earth. Blessed is the ground where he walks.

 

 

Also, can't wait for ISIS to get super rekt. They don't really seem to be making any friends, and they'll over stretch themselves soon enough (assuming they keep expanding). Then they'll get asploded.

[Habib]

I believe that society has fallen. We now respect 'transgenders', people who aren't proud of their gender. We now are not allowed to be proud of our heritage and are told to 'race mix'. The Jewish occupation of Israel is stupid, and the Palestinians deserve to have it back.

Sums up my political views.

[Chaznoodles]

As to the above comment;

If I was a lesbian, and said so and was proud of it, people would respect me. If I was black, and said I was proud to be black, people would respect me. If I said I was proud to be a white male, I would receive some amount of hate because I'm not a minority, so can't be proud of what I am.

[Valkrae]

The World in a nutshell: AGHAGHAGAHGA EVERYONE HATES EACH OTHER AAGAHGDSAHDBASD

[Frances]

As to the above comment;

If I was a lesbian, and said so and was proud of it, people would respect me. If I was black, and said I was proud to be black, people would respect me. If I said I was proud to be a white male, I would receive some amount of hate because I'm not a minority, so can't be proud of what I am.

Here's the main difference, and why pride of certain things is more okay than pride of other things.

Should you be proud to be white? I... don't know. But should you be proud to be a Nazi? Nope.

A lot of pride movements belong to minorities - groups that have been bashed, ignored, and marginalized. Pride provides them something to rally behind; something to make them feel like they're not alone, and they're not forgotten. They're basically like a bit of a support group, in my eyes.

Do Caucasians need a support group? Not really, because there's very few areas in the world (if any) where they're a minority. Do some people bash Caucasians? Absolutely - but that's generally in relation to the amount of race bashing Caucasians already did, and that opens up a whole new debate on positive discrimination and what's acceptable/productive or not.

[Valkrae]

It'd honestly be better if no one got angry at people because of what they look like, or who they want to have sensual relations with.

Oh wait, We can't, because every single group in existence ever has a bunch of chucklefuck assholes who ruin it for everyone else.

[K0NFL1QT]

Do some people bash Caucasians? Absolutely - but that's generally in relation to the amount of race bashing Caucasians already did, and that opens up a whole new debate on positive discrimination and what's acceptable/productive or not.

 

People seem to forget that whites ended slavery, as well.

[Frances]

People seem to forget that whites ended slavery, as well.

:I

Annnnd... whooooo caused slavery in the first place?

[K0NFL1QT]

Do you even history?

Slavery was practiced by just about every civilization, at one time or another. Tribal cultures would, when going to war, either kill the males or enslave them, as well as women and children. This includes native-american indians and africans. Blacks would enslave blacks and sell them to other nations. Yes, whites, being predominantly the most industrious and wealthiest in recent centuries, would buy them to exploit a cheap labor force. But, then they realized it was extremely expensive to keep people against their will, while providing them adequate food, shelter and healthcare, not to mention the fact that slaves tended to work to poorer standards than actual fully recognized employees, and would both rightfully revolt and attempt escape. Capturing escaped slaves alive again was also very costly. Throw in a side helping of the realization of the brutality involved and the immorality of forced enslavement , and bingo... slavery, on the whole, ended.

[Frances]

Slavery was practiced by just about every civilization, at one time or another. Tribal cultures would, when going to war, either kill the males or enslave them, as well as women and children. This includes native-american indians and africans. Blacks would enslave blacks and sell them to other nations. Yes, whites, being predominantly the most industrious and wealthiest in recent centuries, would buy them to exploit a cheap labor force. But, then they realized it was extremely expensive to keep people against their will, while providing them adequate food, shelter and healthcare, not to mention the fact that slaves tended to work to poorer standards than actual fully recognized employees, and would both rightfully revolt and attempt escape. Capturing escaped slaves alive again was also very costly. Throw in a side helping of the realization of the brutality involved and the immorality of forced enslavement , and bingo... slavery, on the whole, ended.

I'm going to stop you here before things escalate any further because what you're saying is actually both ignorant and fairly offensive.

The basis of your argument is "whites stopped enslaving other races because it was too expensive".

Is that, a point, that should go for them? Should we give praise to our aggressors for ending their aggression? I think the fact that white people engaged in slavery is far more important than any "yeah, but they sure did stop after a while, though." Furthermore, the majority of today's social inequities have been built upon a history of slavery and racism perpetuated by the Western world. Thee are outstanding issues that still exist to this day, and saying that whites should be given any amount of praise or recognition because they could have fucked up even worse is absolutely wrong.

Slavery is not over, also. Human trafficking is a very real thing, and it's not because people don't own slaves in your observable community that they don't exist anymore.

[Erik Tiber]

Do you even history?

Slavery was practiced by just about every civilization, at one time or another. Tribal cultures would, when going to war, either kill the males or enslave them, as well as women and children. This includes native-american indians and africans. Blacks would enslave blacks and sell them to other nations. Yes, whites, being predominantly the most industrious and wealthiest in recent centuries, would buy them to exploit a cheap labor force. But, then they realized it was extremely expensive to keep people against their will, while providing them adequate food, shelter and healthcare, not to mention the fact that slaves tended to work to poorer standards than actual fully recognized employees, and would both rightfully revolt and attempt escape. Capturing escaped slaves alive again was also very costly. Throw in a side helping of the realization of the brutality involved and the immorality of forced enslavement , and bingo... slavery, on the whole, ended.

Slavery of the type practiced in the Carribean and American south was different from previous types of slavery in the sheer scale of it, and the racial aspect of it. Racism as we know it today is a result of slave holders trying to justify their practices.

Slavery was profitable. That's why people did it. People got good returns on their investments. Individuals made a lot of profit from it. Slavery did end eventually, but this doesn't excuse the fact that millions of people were forced to work without pay and were traded like cattle.

On a related note:

The modern concept of 'race' is literally one of the worst ideas in all of human history. It's not based on actual genetics; It merely correlates with a few arbitrary traits like skin color, and there's more genetic diversity within Africa than outside it. There are no neat lines between 'races', as the gene flow has been rather prolific throughout human history, so changes between different ethnicities are rather gradual and overall genetic diversity is rather low. These aren't very logical cultural groupings either. Just look at "Asians" or "Africans" and you'll see such an absurd amount of diversity that the idea of this being a common cultural group is simply absurd.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Guest

[K0NFL1QT]

Slavery was profitable. That's why people did it. People got good returns on their investments. Individuals made a lot of profit from it. Slavery did end eventually, but this doesn't excuse the fact that millions of people were forced to work without pay and were traded like cattle.

 

Of course not. My point was that slavery wasn't a white-only practice, and thus blaming only whites for slavery is just ill-informed. Yes, whites propagated it massively throughout the world, but then they also stopped it.

[Frances]

Of course not. My point was that slavery wasn't a white-only practice, and thus blaming only whites for slavery is just ill-informed. Yes, whites propagated it massively throughout the world, but then they also stopped it.

1. No one said anything about whites being solely responsible for slavery, and your post came essentially out of the blue. Additionally, I don't think it's an essential requirement to bring up other people who have engaged in slavery (historically or currently) when discussing the current status quo of whites around the world (much in the same way when we discuss the situation of Melvin punching Richard in the face, we don't have to talk about every single punch in the face that was given at any point in time by anybody, dead or alive).

2. Your argument made a very poor job of explaining your point, if that was it. Coming in and saying "let's not forget whites ended slavery" without context makes you sound like a slavery apologist, and is not related at all to other practices of slavery. I actually don't understand the relation between these two things at all.

[Lessick]

Do you even history?

Slavery was practiced by just about every civilization, at one time or another. Tribal cultures would, when going to war, either kill the males or enslave them, as well as women and children. This includes native-american indians and africans. Blacks would enslave blacks and sell them to other nations. Yes, whites, being predominantly the most industrious and wealthiest in recent centuries, would buy them to exploit a cheap labor force. But, then they realized it was extremely expensive to keep people against their will, while providing them adequate food, shelter and healthcare, not to mention the fact that slaves tended to work to poorer standards than actual fully recognized employees, and would both rightfully revolt and attempt escape. Capturing escaped slaves alive again was also very costly. Throw in a side helping of the realization of the brutality involved and the immorality of forced enslavement , and bingo... slavery, on the whole, ended.

Pack up, folks, slavery is over! Let's just ignore the system of racism and oppression left behind by this, the cultural degradation of people of color, immigrant plantations, human trafficking, what have you.

Praise every person who stops beating their spouse. Sure, they did punch them half to death, but they stopped on their own after awhile, right? That makes it perfectly okay!

Good job on only murdering like, nine hundred people, you could've gone for an even thousand, and you didn't! What a good person! Have a cookie! That guy over there murdered a thousand, you're doing so much better!

No.

The fact that slavery was commonplace in other parts of the world at some point does not magically fix the situation or make the fact that black people were enslaved in America any less shitty. It does not erase racism in our society, it doesn't change the fact that the attitudes and repercussions from the idea that black people were somehow lesser than white people, old-ass ideas that are still culturally enforced and prevalent today in a lot of places. It doesn't make it okay, and it certainly doesn't mean that caucasian people should get a pat on the back for being white.

Like, yeah. I certainly didn't enslave anyone, I didn't want that to happen, I wasn't even alive to protest. That doesn't mean I'm going to celebrate my whiteness because the people before me stopped doing a terrible thing.

[K0NFL1QT]

Most of us weren't alive to have participated in, or helped prevent, slavery. For us, it's largely a historical debate. Yes, there are still exceptions but it is no longer a globally accepted practice and is now relegated to the darkest and most shady underworld avenues. Don't paint me as defending a history of slavery, by any race. I believe, as I suspect most people alive today do, that's it's an abhorrent and immoral practice that should be utterly stopped.

That said, you shouldn't feel ashamed nor responsible or proud of anything you had precisely nothing to do with. Your 'race' for example, is something that you had no input in deciding. You are just the product of two people in a specific geographic area who had sex and reproduced, and through the magic of genetics you resemble them. This whole 'white guilt' thing is just absurd. It'd be like blaming an Austrian child born yesterday for the holocaust. The son is not guilty of the sins of the father, or grandfather as is more likely, and so on and so forth.

Racism on the other hand is still a prevalent issue, though far in decline from past prevalence. Racism and slavery are two different concepts that, while often experienced at the same time in the past, are far more commonly experienced separately these days. I think racism is just another of the worlds problems that will fade over time as small minded bigots die off and are replaced by a more accepting populace. If you're not actively racist then you have nothing to feel bad about in that respect. The problem is that as a reaction to past practices, a lot of people have swung into positive discrimination mode, which is just as unacceptable as negative discrimination whether it's in regards to racism, gender or disability.

[Erik Tiber]

Most of us weren't alive to have participated in, or helped prevent, slavery. For us, it's largely a historical debate. Yes, there are still exceptions but it is no longer a globally accepted practice and is now relegated to the darkest and most shady underworld avenues. Don't paint me as defending a history of slavery, by any race. I believe, as I suspect most people alive today do, that's it's an abhorrent and immoral practice that should be utterly stopped.

That said, you shouldn't feel ashamed nor responsible or proud of anything you had precisely nothing to do with. Your 'race' for example, is something that you had no input in deciding. You are just the product of two people in a specific geographic area who had sex and reproduced, and through the magic of genetics you resemble them. This whole 'white guilt' thing is just absurd. It'd be like blaming an Austrian child born yesterday for the holocaust. The son is not guilty of the sins of the father, or grandfather as is more likely, and so on and so forth.

Racism on the other hand is still a prevalent issue, though far in decline from past prevalence. Racism and slavery are two different concepts that, while often experienced at the same time in the past, are far more commonly experienced separately these days. I think racism is just another of the worlds problems that will fade over time as small minded bigots die off and are replaced by a more accepting populace. If you're not actively racist then you have nothing to feel bad about in that respect. The problem is that as a reaction to past practices, a lot of people have swung into positive discrimination mode, which is just as unacceptable as negative discrimination whether it's in regards to racism, gender or disability.

The problem is not a small number of bigots, it's negative stereotypes within the culture at large. The popular image of the 'welfare queen', for example, is normally black. When looking through articles about welfare queens in a magazine from the 90's, one group of researchers found that half of the 'queens' in the articles were black. Blacks are disproportionately arrested, convicted, and sentenced. A group of white second amendment activists can walk down the street with rifles, but if a group of blacks were to do the same you'd get SWAT teams called in. On a job application, controlling for other variables, a black non-convict is less likely to be called back than a white with a criminal record. This isn't due to Snidely Whiplash style villains twirling their racist mustaches, it's due to negative aspects of the culture at large and negative stereotypes many people aren't even aware of.

With regards to gender, there is still a gap in pay between men and women, even in the same fields. There are a disproportionate amount of men on the boards of corporations. Looking at the solid numbers, discrimination is there. Obviously there is also discrimination against men, but this shouldn't be treated as some sort of contest. These are both problems and both should be dealt with. It just so happens that women's problems are of a higher magnitude and thus require more attention, but men's problems should not be ignored.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Why. Can't the people of the world as a whole. Just adopt. A live and let live philosophy.

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

If they're not bothering you. You should not bother them. Vice versa. Is it really that goddamn hard.

[Valkrae]

Why can't we all get angry at things that make sense.

Like the fact that the U.S. Government keeps cutting NASA's funding.

[Dea Tacita]

Why can't we all get angry at things that make sense.

Like the fact that the U.S. Government keeps cutting NASA's funding.

 

Caaaause we're not all 'Muricans? We've got (atleast) Turks, Israelis and Canadians on here.

 

Why. Can't the people of the world as a whole. Just adopt. A live and let live philosophy.

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

If they're not bothering you. You should not bother them. Vice versa. Is it really that goddamn hard.

 

Agreeing whole-heartedly with Rus'teh on this one.