[Resolved] Situation Complaint - Alberyk and an event

[ajstorey456]

BYOND Key: ajstorey456

Staff BYOND Key: alberyk

Game ID: bRl-dJ4t

Reason for complaint: I logged into SS13 after a long day of internet and power issues to see I had rolled Head Loyalist as a sec officer, accompanied by a Head Loyalist HoS. Oh joy! The round gets going, and CommanderXor is in the AOOC, coining up a cool gimmick as he always does. Love that guy. So we agree on a "War" that has broken out on other ships and space in general, involving Vaurca, Tajara, and Unathi. It's all vague for the sake of being vague, but on with the story.

Some stuff develops, we're throwing the aforementioned races into the mining concentration camp because they're subversive elements, and apparently, a fleet of Lii'Dra are making their way aboard. Alb had intervened with our gimmick because, I don't know, it smelled good, and decided to have some actual Vaurca soldiers attack the station. Fun and all, but I'll complain later. Me and the HoS go to investigate the sublevel, mostly near command dock, and of course, there's signs of a boarding crew. Broken windows, crowbarred open doors, a docked boarding crew ship, it all pointed towards SOMEONE IS ABOARD. Now, at this point in time, power had been out due to the powernet failure event, and with it comms, so me and HoS are of limited information here. We're doing our sweeps and we get to medical, where suddenly, HoP directly warns HoS about the Vaurca being seen near AI upload. At some point a combat borg joined us to, so me and him turn around to go check it out, and suddenly I'm dead. Before I could realize what was happening, two ion bolts had hit me center mass and I was out like a light that was hit by a massive EMP gun. I believe it was TomiixStarslasher playing a Lii'Dra boarding crew Captain who did this to me, but this is about Alb, so on with the story: I ahelped it! I was like, bro, I got ganked in maint. Alb was like, bro, it was justified you were holding a gun and there was a combat borg. I said, bro, I didn't even see them until I had ghost vision and he wasn't having it.

My intentions when I saw the raiders was to talk with them, because this is a HRP server, no? I wanted to ask them who they were, what their intentions were, why the War had to effect the Aurora, and I was filled with glee when I found out that the boarding band was right near us only to have it drained from my body by an Ion gun. Now, if I know how to read, the fourth big rule is No ganking. "While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. This does not mean that you need to monologue your opponent before killing them: roleplay leading up to a murder can take place over the course of the entire round, for example, leaving the murder scene itself to be wordless."

Alberyk thought that this wasn't ganking, for whatever reason, and refused to accept it as such. He said it was justified by something happening far off on the other side of the station, or whatever, I actually didn't know if the Lii'Dra had interacted with anybody yet. Regardless of the interactions that they had with the HoP or whatever happened, I hadn't done anything with them, and being instantly taken out of the round by two ion bolts literally from the dark end of maint didn't feel fair at all. The entire event with Vaurca invaders, while voted on with the vague intent of "spicing up the round," kind of ruined the round as a revolutionary round. It turned into an event, as it was taking away from the thing we planned on doing by taking a war that was supposed to be in the close distance yet still effecting Xenos on station, but instead bringing it directly to the station and making the whole round about them instead of how the station would label xenos for it.

Evidence/logs/etc: I haven't got much, but AgentWhatever was the borg as Failsafe.

Additional remarks: I'm not expecting a demotion or whatever the hell, I just want Alb to know that just because he wants to put his dick in a round, he ought to deal with the consequences of dicking said round and the antags in it too.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Guest

[Alberyk]

So, I asked the people in aooc if they were fine with it and I ran a vote to add the vaurca invaders. Anyway, they got into the station, attacked the hop and ran to the lower level, where the AI reported them. Take in mind that the station was on code red, and they had combat borgs even before the invaders were reported. Then, an officer, the hos and a combat borgs walk into them inside a tunnels, the officer in question had a laser rifle in hand, from there the vaurca opened fire on them using an ion rifle and their weapons, which resulted in the cyborg being stunned and the ipc officer being killed by the ion.

Why I did not rule this as gank: there was already an entire escalation happening at the point with the annoucements and the code changes, and you were running into a dark tunnel full of confirmed hostiles, with weapons in hand. I did not see them really murder the head of personnel that was not armed on contact, so, I did believe that attacking security in that case was a proper reaction. If it was code blue, none of you were armed with weapons, and there was no knowledge of the invasion, or you were not all security, I would surely handle it as gank.

[the_furry]

Reluctantly I post in Alberyk defense. The whole xeno concentration camp thing is quite boring for anyone that plays xeno. The moment I arrived on the station I was met with a security officer at arrivals I had the option to submit to mining (wooh fun rp) or resist and be arrested/probably killed for being a filthy xeno. Not exactly compelling options to interact with. Then the war was brought to auroras doorstep, xenos who where just moments before going to be sent to concentration camps now got to rp out which side they would work with. It provided a lot of interesting RP where we were helping the very security that fired us, protecting the civilians that tried protecting or hurting us. Made for pretty intriguing RP for a large amount of people. So honestly, I was kinda relieved to hear the ones that where about to start man hunting xenos are dealing with an assault force. Whether it justified to kill those guys or not I can't say. I can say it did create a large opportunity to RP a situation I've never seen before on aurora.

[SleepyWolf]

The Zo'ra on ship were also warning everyone about the Lii'dra coming, and the Zo'ra Viax was going insane and did attack people multiple times, the Akaix were all saying 'It is taken over by Lii'dra but we are fixing it, go search for the Lii'dra on the sublevels' because we could hear the hivenet the Lii'dra were saying. The Lii'dra were definitely on station during the power outage, because that is the same time that I had just gotten my almost dead Viax after them being beaten by a security officer, and after the Lii'dra commanded it to do so.

[ajstorey456]

The moment I arrived on the station I was met with a security officer at arrivals I had the option to submit to mining (wooh fun rp) or resist and be arrested/probably killed for being a filthy xeno. Not exactly compelling options to interact with.

 

If this was when I met you at arrivals, I left you at the HoP's office for a reason. Didn't OOCly feel like leaving you to go mining, and also, other stuff was happening.

As for all the warnings and previous happenings of the Lii'Dra, that's all good and everything, but the comms were out and I had no idea. The HoS was a good walk away from the situation happening, the combat borg was there, but never engaged despite seeing them well ahead of time, and I again, never knew they were there. The code changes happened well before the people boarded, so those were useless in indicating that they were in fact on sight hostile, and besides the HoP telling me that he was shot at vaguely before, any "reports" of the invaders never got to me. I never knew anything. I was never RP'd with. I was shot dead from the dark of maint.

Say I'm a cultist. I take advantage of a powernet failure and cause a ruckus in engineering, causing those people in engineering to know I'm a baddie and hunt me. Regardless of what I did in engineering, is it then alright for me to go to science maint, hop out of a locker, and decapitate someone because they had a gun out and were possibly looking for me? The answer is obvious here, and is essentially the same concept. Guy with gun is dead before he knows what's happening, probably never knew about what the guy who killed him was doing leading up to that moment, and neither of them RP'd with each other at all before someone was dead.

And the mining xeno camp? It was a little boring, but fuck, I was hoping anyone would just resist. Whenever I was escorting people, except for Akaix because of HoS orders, I made sure that they had opportunity to try and run, attack me, do something. And getting all the people gathered in mining to combine forces, grab picks, possibly RIGs, and storm the station? What an opportunity! It's not like we had the AI bolt down the doors, you guys could have literally left at any time. Which some Xenos did. It would have been a revolution from the mines, like something that would happen in a revolutionary game, not a storm on the station from some Vaurca hive, like what would happen in an event that was pre-established.

[Garnascus]

My intentions when I saw the raiders was to talk with them, because this is a HRP server, no?

 

that may have actually been your intention. I feel like its unreasonable though considering there where officers, the HoS and combat borgs present. The time for talking is pretty much gone at that point.

[Scheveningen]

That firefight was the very first confrontation between the Lii'dra infiltrators and the crew all round. I don't see why immediately taking a character out of the round without the slightest bit of roleplay or in-character engagement prior to the kill is justified. This is a RP server, not a realism simulator, theatrics are required to make antagonists more than just exclusive murder roles. The admin responsible for running the event should take responsibility for the gank considering they had ample opportunity to disclose what the RoE was, and clearly it seems like the Lii'dra were just told to murder and raid, and not much else. I wouldn't see the point in introducing them into the round as a driving plot point if they did anything but, which was what was displayed.

I was the loyalist captain this round and I even asked around shortly after I was wordlessly ganked by a rev who seems to be permabanned for some other reason, and I don't think anyone engaged the Lii'dra characters prior to the shootout in the sub-level maintenance tunnels.

[Alberyk]

That firefight was the very first confrontation between the Lii'dra infiltrators and the crew all round. I don't see why immediately taking a character out of the round without the slightest bit of roleplay or in-character engagement prior to the kill is justified. This is a RP server, not a realism simulator, theatrics are required to make antagonists more than just exclusive murder roles. The admin responsible for running the event should take responsibility for the gank considering they had ample opportunity to disclose what the RoE was, and clearly it seems like the Lii'dra were just told to murder and raid, and not much else. I wouldn't see the point in introducing them into the round as a driving plot point if they did anything but, which was what was displayed.

I was the loyalist captain this round and I even asked around shortly after I was wordlessly ganked by a rev who seems to be permabanned for some other reason, and I don't think anyone engaged the Lii'dra characters prior to the shootout in the sub-level maintenance tunnels.

 

Nope, they entered via the bridge, where they did meet the head of personnel, and later, the head of personnel warned the crew about them. As I said, the station was already on code red with combat cyborgs even before they were sent. And I did give the lii'dra agents a clear objective which was to take the nuke from the vault, that which seems to be the reason why they were on the sublevel. And as I said, security ran at them armed with lasers on hands and with combat cyborgs following them, the situation would be really different if it was just a bunch of unarmed crewmembers.

[ajstorey456]

The combat borg never engaged until someone was instadead. Regardless of meeting the HoP, I didn't, and I didn't know they were hostile. They knew I couldn't see them, being in the dark and taking that advantage to get shots off on me before I could see them. The HoP never even told us that they were Kill-On-Sight hostile. The situation would be different if I pointed said gun at them, but I didn't even have the thing wielded if I recall.

And nuke ops objective? In a rev round? We were in medical sublevel maint, what the hell were they doing there killing on sight if they wanted to get to the nuke? Did they also have a drill and heaps of thermite, planning to go through the medical EVA? Why, on a HRP server, do you justify killing the first thing they see without any chance of interaction or any confirmed knowledge of their existence? Why, on a rev round, where the close yet distant war was a gimmick we were going for to provide tension, would you send military troops to fuck with a research station, bringing ion weaponry and gatling lasers?

It was a whole shit show, Alberyk. There's no reasoning to any of it, either. If there was, how would I know? They were just killing, they didn't make demands or anything. They didn't attempt to free the Vaurca we were imprisoning, they didn't levee any hostages, they didn't do anything fun. They just boarded and killed. Is that becoming of a special event on a HRP server? Vaurca warriors that left click security and take nuke?

[Alberyk]

The combat borg never engaged until someone was instadead. Regardless of meeting the HoP, I didn't, and I didn't know they were hostile. They knew I couldn't see them, being in the dark and taking that advantage to get shots off on me before I could see them. The HoP never even told us that they were Kill-On-Sight hostile. The situation would be different if I pointed said gun at them, but I didn't even have the thing wielded if I recall.

 

There was several announcements about the vaurca invading the system and the like, I am not sure why you would not presume such. And the other vaurca were aware of the Lii'dra presence. And if you were not really expecting them to be hostile, why did you run at them with a rifle in hand followed by an armed combat borg.

 

And nuke ops objective? In a rev round? We were in medical sublevel maint, what the hell were they doing there killing on sight if they wanted to get to the nuke? Did they also have a drill and heaps of thermite, planning to go through the medical EVA? Why, on a HRP server, do you justify killing the first thing they see without any chance of interaction or any confirmed knowledge of their existence? Why, on a rev round, where the close yet distant war was a gimmick we were going for to provide tension, would you send military troops to fuck with a research station, bringing ion weaponry and gatling lasers?

 

Except there was a vote to adminbus, and everyone agreed with it. And I was not under the control of whatever the team wanted to do, I gave them the objectives. And the vault's nuke has nothing to do with nuke ops, I have no idea what you are talking about, at no moment the vaurca were trying to destroy the station, only steal the nuke from the vault. And to argue, most of the vaurca's gear was clearly inferior when against the station, at the point that all of them were killed.

 

It was a whole shit show, Alberyk. There's no reasoning to any of it, either. If there was, how would I know? They were just killing, they didn't make demands or anything. They didn't attempt to free the Vaurca we were imprisoning, they didn't levee any hostages, they didn't do anything fun. They just boarded and killed. Is that becoming of a special event on a HRP server? Vaurca warriors that left click security and take nuke?

 

Except, some people did come to me and said they did enjoy the event, I am sorry that you did die. And it was rather impossible for them to take any hostage if security and armed people just swarmed their locations. Also, a single dying vaurca was taken hostage in the end, when the second team was pretty much dead, not sure how did you expect them to rescue said dying vaurca. Besides, there was a lot of interaction between the vaurca and the crew, such as some of them turning against the crew, clearly helping with the rev gimmick.

[Scheveningen]

Except, some people did come to me and said they did enjoy the event, I am sorry that you did die. And it was rather impossible for them to take any hostage if security and armed people just swarmed their locations. Also, a single dying vaurca was taken hostage in the end, when the second team was pretty much dead, not sure how did you expect them to rescue said dying vaurca. Besides, there was a lot of interaction between the vaurca and the crew, such as some of them turning against the crew, clearly helping with the rev gimmick.

 

Well, good for them, probably because they were the ones who didn't get ganked out of the blue by antagonists that only had murder on their mind and not narrative-pushing for a more enjoyable round. Or they were the Vaurca nukeops. I specifically didn't enjoy this round because it took a lot of the major limelight off the revolutionaries (and by extension the loyalists) and just introduced Vaurca nuke ops into the round, which was definitely not what I thought was being implied by CommanderXor in terms of the mini-event. The impression that was given in AOOC was to make sure the revolutionaries had reason to actually rebel and not come up with their own individual plans to apparently brain transplant the captain for some stupid reason.

It would've helped the case better if the Vaurca hive wasn't specified because anytime someone says 'Lii'dra' they scream for guns and/or closets to weld themselves into. If it was ambiguous it would've not only helped the loyalist's case better but it would've helped the revolutionaries too. Making roleplay decisions formed on a basis of a grey area of action makes it more difficult but also more meaningful to make the important decisions as either of the antagonist types. Depth is nice. What resulted was, in my opinion, not a lot of depth, just a lot of pointless violence that didn't go anywhere.

And apparently the admins decided to blast the HoS with a BSA because he was successfully 1v3ing the Lii'dra operatives with a telescopic baton, while the robusting was funny the BSA thing just seemed like one of those odd reactions you'd get on Bay where if you successfully robust an event character an admin explodes you either through IC means or OOC means. It was really crushing to see the round get slowly devolved into a clown fiesta where every crewmember is a potential piñata, if you'll pardon the expression. The admins probably thought it was awful that one overpowered stick could ruin an entire event so they blasted him, but it still seems like unfair play to me, telescopic baton included or not.

The mini-event-thing was fun up until the point the Lii'dra operators boarded, it was otherwise a really sad round to see because it just escalated to a point where the round type wasn't the focus anymore. I've run events before where I admittedly got out of hand with introducing conflict modifiers more than a couple times, so I understand the pressure to make things interesting since once you take the reins of making a mini-event the entire server pop expects you to make the round fun for them.

I feel like it could've been executed better, if it wasn't announced that the Lii'dra hiveship was gonna slap the station's hind with 1000 degree hot glowing thermal knives and BSAs then I think it would've been much more of a tense round since the station would've had a difficult time figuring out what they were supposed to prepare for. Suspense is a pretty big factor, but so is subtlety.

[Garnascus]

Alberyk's call on the specific incident you described in the OP looks valid to me. Yes this is a roleplay server but no matter how you analyze this situation its completely unreasonable to expect them to just chat with you. Whether the event as a whole was good or bad isn't for me to say. If there isnt any further issues i will lock and archive this in 24 hours.

[Scheveningen]

Yes this is a roleplay server but no matter how you analyze this situation its completely unreasonable to expect them to just chat with you.

 

That wasn't what I said at all but okay. Not really sure if you actually investigated this or not.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Guest

[DrHobo]

I came into that round a bit late and have had conflicting statements whether it was an event or a rev round afterwards, so rev event it seems but was the invasion canon? Now I got PDAM forwarded a big spiel about the hiveships invading and devastating cities across known space by the time I got from cryo to the elevators, now I forwarded this to other staff and new arrivals and we all understood the situation was dangerous.

War isn't safe and we know the Lii'dra are treacherous, now we were all paranoid about all the vaurcae after realizing they were all on the same hivenet and had armed themselves, so we armed ourselves incase things went south (a couple old men, a dionea, and some trusted non-vaurcan assistants; push came to shove, we'd have got slaughtered as you'd expect from our ragtag team against specialized Lii'dra warrior operatives). Folk were conscripted and it was red alert, they most definitely didn't come to chat after all out bombing cities without warning or provocation.

A security borg and some armed officers are combatants in war, sure any other situation it would defo be a gank but there was plenty heads up that they weren't taking prisoners and weren't going to be a friendly bunch. This would be more the context of war, people die and it ain't pleasant. To have a dialogue with the invaders outside hivenet just seems a bit far-fetched, considering how tense things were after the news. Schev, I mean Aj hoping to parlay with the invaders with an armed posse.

Now if the HoS managed to take on 3 with a telebaton then that's also fair game, if there's anyone on the station that I'd believe could do it, it would be the HoS or even Captain. They shouldn't get blasted for that. After the invaders were dealt with then I'm sure the other vaurcae could ended up getting hauled in and interrogated as well as any invader (un)lucky enough to get captured. There'd still be the paranoia of if there were more attackers or any spies and infiltrators among the crew, returning to the whole rev situation after the mini-event invasion.

[Garnascus]

locking and archiving