VisVirific Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 Summary: First and foremost, all of the disabilities suggested have been heavily considered to not completely impair the gameplay or are a giant obstacle. Now, the actual summary. It is my belief that a balanced disabillity system would add another layer of depth and realism to the server and for future RP situation in general. As it currently is, the best things we have of disabilities are the "Needs Glasses" (which isn't adjustable and is easily ignorable after some rounds) and the adjustable Limbs (Amputated/Prosthesis) and Internal Organs(Assisted/Mechanical). Anything else (allergies, for example) tends to get overlooked and is based of pure RP. This suggestion thread offers an actual disability system; An Allergy system with adjustable allergic reactions, eyesight disability with adjustable severity, Asthma with adjustable severity, Diabetes, Blood Pressure and Chronic Pains. (Probably limit the quantity of disabilities a character may have? Or probably not) ===== Allergy System It'd only be ONE specific reagent from a limited list and ONE or TWO toggleable allergic reactions. This is for balance and to make sure the character isn't allergic to the only thing that can save them. Reagents: -Kelotane -Dermaline -Soporific -Anesthetic Gas -Ethylredoxrazine -Spacecleaner -Sterilizine -Paracetamol -Tramadol -Oxycodone -Methylphenidate -Citalopram -Paroxetine -Space spice -Egg yolk -Animal Protein (Essentially makes them vegetarian, and this is an actual allergy people can have) -Seafood -Coffee -Corn Oil -Milk (freaking Lactose) -Soy -Ethanol -Latex Allergic Reactions: -Minor Toxins -Minor Suffocation Damage -Rashes (Minor Brute damage) -Vomiting/Nausea -Minor Pain Damage -Weakening, Strength 2 -Coughing -Feeling weird stuff in your mouth -Sneezing(?) -Convulsions Considered but Disregarded Allergic Shock/Anaphylatic Shock Putting this has the potential to be a gamebreaker, as Anaphylatic Shock is super serious when not immediately treated. Even if it would be treated with Hyperzine/Dexalin/Dexalin Plus/Inaprovaline, it'd still be too debilitating. ===== Eyesight Disability A better version of the "Needs Glasses" that we currently have. However, this one would actually impair the vision and not feel like wearing a very weak welding mask. It'd use the system for Eye Damage, with the screen being blurred/foggy/dark. Acuity levels: -20/70 (severe) -20/40 (moderate) -20/20 (A bit impaired, but still fine) -20/10 (Doesn't need glasses) Either have the adjustable options by the Acuity levels or using a Average/Below Average/Poor/Severe for each. ===== Asthma It's a common disability that probably wouldn't hurt much if it was added. Severity: -Light - Activates at 15% Stamina or Lower (Wheezing/Coughing) -Moderate - Activates at 35% Stamina or Lower(Wheezing/Coughing + Low Stamina) -Severe - Activates at 50% Stamina or Lower (Wheezing/Coughing + Low Stamina + Minor Increased Suffocation Damage) Considered but would require more debate/balance. Inhaler: -Possibly a loadout item. Contains 3u of Dexalin and dispenses 1u when used, so it's a 3 use thing, which should be enough for 2 hours. -It contains less than you'd usually find in Dexalin Pills on purpose to prevent further powergaming. -Probably make only people with Asthma toggled be able to get it in the loadout? ===== Diabetes - Type 1 Another rather common disability that wouldn't hurt much if it was added. Mechanically, the diabetic shock could be bound to a certain amount of nutriment threshold is broken. [Thanks, Coalf!] -Increased Hunger -Minor Shakes (possibly Dizziness, too) for Low Blood Sugar (Lower than 20 Nutriment Threshold) -Bad/Nauseous Messages for High Blood Sugar (Higher than 50 Nutriment Threshold) ===== Blood Pressure The Blood Pressure ends up more flavortext than actual mechanics since being more realistic would add the Dizziness, Confusion and actual Collapsing, which... are all pretty horrible to have at a terrible moment. And the treatment for these is something that is constant, so it'd be more of a pain in the butt than a simple thing. -Low Blood Pressure: You feel Dizzy, you feel lightheaded -High Blood Pressure: You feel Dizzy, your head hurts, you feel nauseous ===== Migraines/Chronic Pains Because those happen and they're a pain in the butt, also often the cause of bad moods or exhaustion due to having to put up with them without a prescribed painkiller. -Choose ONE Limb: [Head, Chest, Lower Body, Arms, Hands, Legs, Foot] -Choose "Severity" (frequency of how much do you want the pain-redtext): Minor, Moderate, High ===== Too Long; Didn't Read. More disabilities may be able to deepen RP and make characters a bit more different than each other, with the minimal mechanics also accentuating it so it's not completely reliant on RP or overlooked. These disabilities have been carefully considered and balanced in order to not completely overthrow the gameplay. Notes: It's 3pm and I haven't slept since 4pm of yesterday, and this draft/thread was built with impulsive sleep-deprived energy, so I deeply apologize for any incoherent/incomprehensible sentences and details that may end up more confusing than anything.
themaskedman2 Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 +1 It's a good suggestion. Though I have to say, i'm not sure why you are particularly against disabilities becoming more severe and impairing to characters. It is a complete optional choice, and someone joining as an important role with 100 disabilities is no different than what some may currently do with other disabilities, more of an OOC issue then. I guess what i'm saying is, if someone wants the option to potentially die because of a very severe allergy I feel like they should have the option? Though even without that it's a good suggestion as is and I think could add some nice depth to certain characters.
Coalf Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 I support this suggestion and to answer why I support this I shall respond to Maskedman2 here. It's simple, because we don't want disabilities to be a "Pay attention to me" button. We don't want all other RP to stop because someone decided to eat a banana because he was bored, or give them a button triggered heart attack so medical has to suddenly pay attention to them and they're shitters and bad players if they don't, no. What this seeks is to make character more believable, more flavorful. These things ultimately aren't supposed to matter, they're supposed to be something that can simply be ignored in a high-stress situation so it doesn't slow down gameplay but also something that can be impeding in a lot of less critical situations or when the round is slower.
DrHobo Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 Well I am all for a trait system but your disability system is awesome, +1! Aye and I agree with Coalf, if it were more than a character developing annoyance it would become a burden on the medical system and could be potentially lethal to SSDs (vaurcae running out of phoron is bad enough). A few disabilities I could think of are: - Both kinds of epilepsy (the seizure and the staring kind, both with flavour text like if they were on drugs so folk can tell the difference between SSD). - Clumsiness (like the clown, dropping stuff, falling over, etc). - Illiteracy (if they try reading paper then they can't and some flavour text says all they see is incomprehensible scribbles). - Obese & Wasting (Start full or hungry, burn nutrients slower or faster). - Smoker (Need to smoke none of this part-timer shit, otherwise progressively annoying flavour texts, "Smoke.", "SMOKE!", "ARE YOU SMOKING YET?!"). - Alcoholic (Same as Smoker) - Indigestion & Acid Reflux (more annoying character-building flavour text that occassionally flairs up). - Eczyma (visible when examined if exposed, itchy flavour text that could be ignored but a good character would emote a scratch). - Flatulent (randomly pass gas either burps or farts or both, this isn't goon and farting here can really put people off - see Jim Fresco, the greasy disgusting cargo-chef bastard ). I'm not for speech filters generally as that should be something written (it's awful on goon and pretty offensive really), as Dr Powers I'm sure you'd agree. Also it's just lazy, as an old scottish gadgee and especially a vaurca, it's definitely something you adapt to quickly and should vary per individual. Sneezing is totally an allergic reaction, cat and dog hair both have my nose running for a fair while as my sinuses make an ungodly amount of mucus. An anti-histamine could be a new medicine that could just stop the minor annoyances as they flair up, maybe another dylovene-based med?
Conspiir Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 - Smoker (Need to smoke none of this part-timer shit, otherwise progressively annoying flavour texts, "Smoke.", "SMOKE!", "ARE YOU SMOKING YET?!"). - Alcoholic (Same as Smoker) All I can imagine is "Nar'sie Has Risen"-sized text on your screen. Overall, I approve of the idea. One thing of note: 20/20 vision is normal vision. 20/10 is actually above normal. To use an example from the internet because I'm terrible at wording this: If you have 20/100 vision, it means that you must be as close as 20 feet to see what a person with normal vision can see at 100 feet. But yes, different prescriptions would be pretty cool.
Doc Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 I'm not sure I can get behind flatulence. It's too meme-y of a topic to be put in any kind of automatic form. If you think you can do it well, okay, but, that's just encouraging some random join to pick it for their character and screw around. That said, everything else seems either very good or at the least I wouldn't have an issue with it being accepted. I'm particularly passionate about eye-sight, as my primary character requires glasses, and yet lacking them is basically meaningless because 2 minutes later you will have completely adjusted to the barely-obscuring overlay that appears without them. I feel no real necessity to ever get another pair of glasses except for convenience, and even then the longer it goes on the less of an issue it is. Yes, yes, you could just RP it, and I do in those circumstances, but you could say the same thing for many things and in the end it comes back to immersion. It's far more immersive to play a character that needs glasses due to poor eyesight when they actually can't see without their glasses. /rant Basically, yes please.
Sebbe Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 We suggest people who needs eye correcting (glasses, contacts) gets headaches if not wearing glasses over a long time. We also suggest people with glasses can not recognize others based on sight without glasses. oh and +1 to this suggestion. -Sebbe
alexpkeaton Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 This is a well thought-out suggestion and I really like the idea of an allergy system. I am going to second the idea of including the anaphylactic shock despite the balance issue it could present. We do need medical staff more actively consulting medical records prior to treatment, and knowing that any patient could be a ticking time bomb in that regard might just do the trick. +1, I really hope there is a coder friendly to this cause. We may want to time lock this disability system for new players though because of the potential to get carried away with it in grief. On Paradise Station we called them "seizure assistants." They would select all the disabilities and would spawn in a wheelchair with no arms or legs and have a seizure every couple of minutes. Hence the name "seizure assistants."
Conspiir Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 We may want to time lock this disability system for new players though because of the potential to get carried away with it in grief. On Paradise Station we called them "seizure assistants." They would select all the disabilities and would spawn in a wheelchair with no arms or legs and have a seizure every couple of minutes. Hence the name "seizure assistants." Having a job ban on it, rather like we do now with antags and security, would not be a bad thing in my book. I second this addition.
Resilynn Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 I was just thinking about this the other day! Ellie is marked as having a bee allergy and asthma, but the asthma especially never impacts her. If we do implement asthma and allergies, we should also implement epipens and inhalers. +1
VisVirific Posted November 14, 2017 Author Posted November 14, 2017 This is going to be a rather long reply to multiple points, so I apologize for the wall of text. [...] A few disabilities I could think of are: - Both kinds of epilepsy (the seizure and the staring kind, both with flavour text like if they were on drugs so folk can tell the difference between SSD). - Clumsiness (like the clown, dropping stuff, falling over, etc). - Illiteracy (if they try reading paper then they can't and some flavour text says all they see is incomprehensible scribbles). - Obese & Wasting (Start full or hungry, burn nutrients slower or faster). - Smoker (Need to smoke none of this part-timer shit, otherwise progressively annoying flavour texts, "Smoke.", "SMOKE!", "ARE YOU SMOKING YET?!"). - Alcoholic (Same as Smoker) - Indigestion & Acid Reflux (more annoying character-building flavour text that occassionally flairs up). - Eczyma (visible when examined if exposed, itchy flavour text that could be ignored but a good character would emote a scratch). - Flatulent (randomly pass gas either burps or farts or both, this isn't goon and farting here can really put people off - see Jim Fresco, the greasy disgusting cargo-chef bastard ). I'll try to address each of those disabilities according in the spoiler. The Disabilities -Epilepsy I personally have no experience with Epilepsy, nor have done any in-depth research regarding it. I'd be more comfortable with talking with those who have more experience with it and how they would adapt it into SS13. -Clumsiness Mechanically, I could see it as a Confusion, Strength 2 or something along the lines, but I'm not too keen about it being an actual disability? I'm aware how insensitive I'm sounding, but I feel that Clumsiness could be more RP oriented than an actual coded thing. One of the rule of thumbs I've used for each disability was how to balance them out, and how badly they could put someone out of the round because of simple RNG. Clumsiness sounds like it could put someone out of commission too easily if the situation is dire, without anything to balance it out. -Illiteracy This one is heavily RP reliant rather than a needed mechanic. But it did make me think of possibly Dyslexia, although that would also be RP oriented since only few people in the station have to actually work with paperwork, and even then a mechanic that jumbles how one perceives written things sounds too complicated for something simple that could be RP'd. -Obese & Wasting I... really am on the fence about this one. On one hand, it could be interesting, as there are people who are concerningly overweight/underweight and the mechanics could be "Smaller Stamina" and, as you've mentioned, "Slower/Faster hunger rate" respectively. And they could be mechanics for people who want to RP eating disorders, too. On the other hand, there's something about this as disability that makes me uncomfortable to discuss/develop. Something about it feels "touchy" and I really wouldn't want to make other people uncomfortable with this. -Smoker & Alcoholic As both you and Conspiir have discussed, the red text could progressively get larger the longer the player hasn't had a quick smoke/shot, which could be great way to express the need/craving such addictions create. Maybe add the basic symptoms of withdrawal, too. Headaches, Shaking, Nausea happening after a certain period of time? -Indigestion & Acid Reflux Wouldn't it be just "You feel Nauseous", "Your stomach hurts, "You feel bile in your throat" text messages? What could make them flare up more? What could make them more than just nausea/vomit that is already becoming sort of often with this whole system? -Eczema I think I might be misinterpreting it, but isn't it just like Rashes? It's already included in the Allergic Reactions, which would create minor brute and possibly some "Your skin feels itchy" messages. -Flatulent This one feels like it could be abused a lot, and how it feels more of a joke than an actual disability. It'd be too easy to ruin entire atmospheres with it alone, and the people who I did witness farting were doing it purely to make other people uncomfortable, not even to provide interesting RP. So, unless you come up with an excellent reason for it, I'd say no. [...] Sneezing is totally an allergic reaction, cat and dog hair both have my nose running for a fair while as my sinuses make an ungodly amount of mucus. An anti-histamine could be a new medicine that could just stop the minor annoyances as they flair up, maybe another dylovene-based med? An anti-allergic chemical could be an interesting addition to go along with the whole allergic system. Though, I don't know how that would work to stop the allergic reactions, it'd depend how the allergic system would be implemented. This type of discussion is out of my league, as I have no idea how this system could be implemented. Overall, I approve of the idea. One thing of note: 20/20 vision is normal vision. 20/10 is actually above normal. To use an example from the internet because I'm terrible at wording this: If you have 20/100 vision, it means that you must be as close as 20 feet to see what a person with normal vision can see at 100 feet. But yes, different prescriptions would be pretty cool. Ahhh, I see. I had used an Acuity scale in order to get the nomenclature correctly, though I've always been able to see the last minuscule lines so I thought that the 20/10 is normal. The Acuity levels in the suggested system would have to change into the "Minor, Moderate, Severe" then. Like this? Eyesight Disability Severity -Severe (Foggy + Dark + Blur?) -Moderate (Foggy + Dark) -Minor (A bit foggy) -Optimal We suggest people who needs eye correcting (glasses, contacts) gets headaches if not wearing glasses over a long time. We also suggest people with glasses can not recognize others based on sight without glasses. oh and +1 to this suggestion. -Sebbe That is an excellent suggestion! The headache red-text message could have different frequency depending on the severity the player chose. The Severe being the most constant headache message, while the Minor being only occasionally. Contacts could be an interesting new loadout item, too. The player could probably choose a "type" of color for the contacts with some basic colors, or simply transparent. Example: Glasses and Eyewear contacts selection - 1 - For those who don't like wearing glasses like a complete nerd. Type: contacts, transparent ; contacts, black ; contacts, brown ; contacts, green ; contacts, blue What would anyone else think of contacts? I was just thinking about this the other day! Ellie is marked as having a bee allergy and asthma, but the asthma especially never impacts her. If we do implement asthma and allergies, we should also implement epipens and inhalers. +1 The suggestion does consider Inhalers, but I think we'd need discuss about it more to prevent someone from simply having a pocket dexalin dispenser as a powergaming move. The current idea I had for Inhalers is as follows: Inhaler -Possibly a loadout item. Contains 3u of Dexalin and dispenses 1u when used, so it's a 3 use thing, which should be enough for 2 hours. -It contains less than you'd usually find in Dexalin Pills on purpose to prevent further powergaming. -Probably make only people with Asthma toggled be able to get it in the loadout? Autoinjectors already somewhat work as epipens, though they have Inaprovaline, contain 5u and can only be used once. (You can also empty their contents in a sink to add other chemicals, but that's beside the point) ===== I'm incredibly glad for so much feedback regarding the system as a whole! Thank you so much for all that responded, and thanks for those who even simply read it. I really hope we can keep this discussion going!
Sebbe Posted November 14, 2017 Posted November 14, 2017 This is going to be a rather long reply to multiple points, so I apologize for the wall of text. [...] A few disabilities I could think of are: - Both kinds of epilepsy (the seizure and the staring kind, both with flavour text like if they were on drugs so folk can tell the difference between SSD). I'll try to address each of those disabilities according in the spoiler. The Disabilities -Epilepsy I personally have no experience with Epilepsy, nor have done any in-depth research regarding it. I'd be more comfortable with talking with those who have more experience with it and how they would adapt it into SS13. Hey man i used to have full brain epileptic seizures, i had the 100% version of epilepsy where my whole body shook and all that. And i'm more than willing to describe the few short seconds of the seizure before i black out from pain. For me the seizures started as a weird feeling of my brain floating or being fuzzy (hard to explaing) then seconds later the seizure would tense up my right arm so much it would sort of hold my hand above my chest, all this happening while my arm feels like its being broken, cut into, beaten, rubbed by razor wire and gently brushed by my mother like she used to do when telling me goodnight stories as a child. I would have a few seconds to try to force myself to the ground (Im guessing 2 or 3 seconds, feels like an eternity when you are being tortured by your brain) then i would feel half a second or whole second of my whole body tensing up and the feelings in my arm going over to my whole body, including any other feeling you can imagine, and i black out from pain. Usually after a full body epileptic seizure when i wake up again i had to puke, and i could not function as a human the rest of the day (sometime the next day too) you get super sleepy and can not think coherently untill you get rest (12 hours ish, depends how long the seizure lasted) Got diagnosed free of epilepsy this year so i'm happy im done with that hell, i would only wish something like that on my enemies because im sure its a better alternative to torture. So i'm not sure a full body seizure can be implemented, but it's not up to me -Sebbe Edit: Forgot to mention, epileptic seizures can cause brain damage, i have a hard time with memory now because of it so take that into account as you wish.
Recommended Posts