AllyBearsley Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 My suggestion is simple as that. I wish for Cargo to be reverted to its older point system, while the new system receives more work off of the live server. The new system is a novel idea, but in its current implementation it needs a lot of work. Items are missing, prices are strange, and the UI could use some features (like easily what was ordered on the screen to accept orders). I believe the new system needs to be worked on some more before being implemented on the live serve. I am also willing to help improve the system anyway I can. I do believe it is a very interesting idea. The reason I haven't spoken much on this topic yet is simply because I am just getting back around to playing cargo. I apologize for my silence until now.
Arrow768 Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 So your points are: Some items are missing Prices are off The gui could use more features The first two things are config issues and not code issues. As for the gui. Make a suggestion outlining what you want. Therefore voting for dismissal.
alexpkeaton Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 So your points are: Some items are missing Prices are off The gui could use more features The first two things are config issues and not code issues. As for the gui. Make a suggestion outlining what you want. Therefore voting for dismissal. Arrow, I hate to say it, but the OP is right. Nobody is using cargo currently because the new system just doesn't work. The biggest thong that has been asked for again and again is to charge people's ID's directly at the cargo console. That has been ignored. Unless a more hands-on approach (discord announcement, new forum thread, frequent code improvements) is used, I agree with the OP. New cargo is a great idea. But when no one uses the new system because it is a swiss cheesing of old cargo and overcomplicated, it doesn't matter. I would call for a vote of the server to see if new cargo should be reverted. It has been more than one month. It's been given a chance. I love the idea and was a frequent poster in the cargo update thread (I should note that not all of my additions I pointed out from old cargo have been added yet). If it's not going to be actively updated or supported, it should go back to development. I'm sorry. +1 to OP's suggestion
Munks Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Arrow, I hate to say it, but the OP is right. Nobody is using cargo currently because the new system just doesn't work. The biggest thong that has been asked for again and again is to charge people's ID's directly at the cargo console. That has been ignored. Unless a more hands-on approach (discord announcement, new forum thread, frequent code improvements) is used, I agree with the OP. Do you play cargo? People don't use cargo because people have never used cargo. Playing a lot of cargo recently, most of the customers were ones who make the same regular order every round, aside from the odd pizza crate. This is business as usual and it's doubtful that it has anything to do with the current cargo system. I sincerely doubt anything about the current system, aside from just lack of items, is going to turn people away. It's just selecting shit off the menu and then swiping your card on the EFTPOS. Its harder for people to figure EFTPOS operation out than the order menu.
alexpkeaton Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Do you play cargo? People don't use cargo because people have never used cargo. Playing a lot of cargo recently, most of the customers were ones who make the same regular order every round, aside from the odd pizza crate. This is business as usual and it's doubtful that it has anything to do with the current cargo system. I sincerely doubt anything about the current system, aside from just lack of items, is going to turn people away. It's just selecting shit off the menu and then swiping your card on the EFTPOS. Its harder for people to figure EFTPOS operation out than the order menu. I am a frequent QM, and you are in a way correct that cargo is rarely used. But I have noticed some telling changes. I would usually see a few kitchen orders, a xenobotany/botany order, and a robotics order. These days I am lucky to just get the robotics order. I have had more than one round go by with zero orders of any kind. There were suggestions made asking for price reductions with specific examples made. Cows are 3000 credits apiece. I thought something was going to be done about it. Nothing ever was. It's part of the reason why I have started to play other roles outside of supply. Cargo is more boring than it ever was, the only excitement anymore is the contents of the warehouse, and that novelty is over with after the first 5 minutes of the round. Merchants can undercut the prices of cargo. This really should be flipped. Merchants don't need any help anyways. They get more interesting items and the novelty is there every time the merchant's shuttle docks, which drives foot traffic. Cargo needs novelties and there have been some suggestions made in the new cargo thread that have gone ignored. Hence I stopped posting there. About EFTPOS, you are right. My point is this, if a vending machine can charge my ID, the cargo console should be able to as well (or enter departmental account and PIN). My problem is that as QM a CT will make an order for a cow for the kitchen, approve without requesting payment, and I have to go find the HoP to try to squeeze departmental funds from her, or else cargo is kneecapped for the rest of the round for a flipping cow. Not that it matters, there won't tend to be any other orders.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 I agreed completely that the prices are completely balls off the wall crazy with zero relation to IC sense or accessibility conserations. I went through with Skull's blessing and changed all the prices to what I hope are much more reasonable prices. Skull and Arrow just need to implement these new prices. Prices in general were slashed across the board - a bag of flour will be a simple 2 credits.
Butterrobber202 Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 Tbh the cargo system kinda does suck. I’ve yet to touch Cargo again after my brief go around with it after the update.
Bygonehero Posted December 1, 2017 Posted December 1, 2017 The cargo changes are arcane now, but 90% of the issues are simply teething issues with the implementation of the new system. As Jackboot said, it's being vastly improved.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted December 1, 2017 Posted December 1, 2017 Cargo pricing has been updated. Prices have been slashed across the board! We're CLOBBERING big city prices!!! Once we are reasonably content with the prices, we will add more companies that offer different prices for different products. In general, I think we need to keep the cargo changes live and work on them live because we get feedback exactly like in the OP - player feedback on what they think is wrong with the system, which lets us catch these issues and improve them.
alexpkeaton Posted December 1, 2017 Posted December 1, 2017 Cargo pricing has been updated. Prices have been slashed across the board! We're CLOBBERING big city prices!!! Awesome! I have been away from the server since Monday but look forward to checking out the changes. In general, I think we need to keep the cargo changes live and work on them live. I agree. That was the alternative I suggested to sending cargo back to the drawing board: Unless a more hands-on approach (discord announcement, new forum thread, frequent code improvements) is used, I agree with the OP. . If we engage people to talk about it and make hotfixes to the system, we can make cargo great again! I want this new cargo to work. I advocated for an economy multiple times during my tenure at Paradise - credits are so underused and have the capacity to add real excitement to the game. But it just needs a little TLC. The next improvement that could happen should be the addition of an ATM-style mechanic to cargo ordering. Either swipe your card or enter an account number and PIN (necessary for departmental accounts). The card could either be charged at the point of ordering (and refunded if the order is rejected by cargo staff) or charged at the time cargo approves the order (the order not being processed if insufficent funds). Or, there could be three buttons: "Charge Customer", "Charge Cargo" and "Reject Order." Or, there could even be an option at the point of ordering for the player to request that cargo be charged instead of the character's account. ("Charge Customer" could be greyed out in this case) We also need to restore the paper trail to cargo. Stamps are currently useless. On a minor note, it might be nice to allow the QM/HoP or perhaps any cargo staff member to permanently remove past shipment records much like a security officer can delete a security record. When a QM is an antag, ordering crypto sequencer items is a dead giveaway that permanently sits on the "Shipments" history for the HoP or any CT to see (or QM if a CT is traitor), Before, you could just shred the req form and send back the manifest, done and done. And yes, my QM has been caught ordering guns as antag before through the new system. Right now, the reason supplied for a cargo order is not being captured - you can't find it anywhere in the cargo system. That needs to be added. Men's formalwear and women's dresses still need to be added from old cargo. Ambrosia vulgaris seeds should be added an an option for botany. Illegal guns selection from old cargo (when board is hacked with multitool) should be added for crypto sequencer-hacked new cargo. Space-bikes are listed in new cargo but no price is supplied and they are instead listed as unavailable. They should be priced and made available. I'm not sure if reagents have been added back yet or not. They should have a separate tab to prevent the medical list from growing too long. Certain poisons could be unlocked with the crypto-sequencer. Check me on this, but I believe certain Gygax modules were available in a multitool-hacked old cargo. This could be added back somehow. Add a method to hack/override the cargo system without a crypto-sequencer much like multitooling the board in old cargo. Certain new selections could be unlocked (but not all crypto sequencer items). Not sure if you can order magboots in new cargo. Definitely needed as an option for miners until space wind is fixed. (Please don't ID lock the crate to engineering) Add new and exciting exotic items, perhaps on a rotating basis. Drive foot traffic to new cargo. A new "Exotic" category with items like the combat medkit and the Rapid-Service-Fabricator. In summary, keep the changes coming!
AllyBearsley Posted December 2, 2017 Author Posted December 2, 2017 Well prices were finally changed that's a huge hurdle overcome. If the issues are primarily config and not code based that means they should be fixed relatively quickly as they are called. I'm fine with this thread being closed and will be making a new one based on some tweaks to the cargo terminal gui that I think are pretty good to have.
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