[Resolved] Character Complaint - Luxo Khazarazir

[Ornias]

BYOND Key: Ornias

Game ID: bSw-arve

Player Byond Key: Munks (Luxo Khazarazir, Internal Affairs Agent)

Staff involved: N/A.

Reason for complaint:

This is a complaint against the general playstyle of Luxo Khazarazir as an Internal Affairs Agent. Originally I tried to bring this to the players attention over the Byond pager, but they disagreed with my criticism and blocked me, so I thought it would be best to bring it here.

Luxo Khazarazir is an internal affairs agent who, in every interaction I've had, I've had a negative experience. The two notable examples of this are the linked round, where he failed to be impartial during an investigation, and an earlier round, where he attacked an antag in security with an e-sword and a chem-sprayer filled with Plant-B-Gone.

During the round with the provided Game ID, Luxo Khazarazir performed an investigation on an officer, Gavin Matthews, in relation to the arrest of someone on code green without a warrant.

Matthews had been ordered by the captain to arrest a surgeon, and had witnessed the surgeon performing neglect of duty by being intoxicated on duty. Witnessing an infraction is grounds for an arrest without a warrant, and the officer was compelled to obey the captains orders. Munks told me over pager that the officer had "threatened the person being arrested with additional charges for asking a warrant", but to my understanding this isn't true.

These accusations towards the officer, as well as a number of accusatory comments later, led the Head of Security to the idea that the officer was a troublemaker.

At a later point in the round, Matthews was involved in a firefight and used lethal weaponry in response to having a lethal weapon pointed at him. Without any kind of information on the situation, Khazarazir was very dismissive and accusatory about Mathews' actions, which I believe was the main contributing factor towards his prohibition from the case, locking him out of a chance to interact with the antagonist, as well as giving him a reputation as being incompetent.

When I raised that I believed that Officer Matthews was not guilty of incompetence, he replied with a flat "What.", before saying "Agent, if you truly feel that an officer who illegally trespassed in the medbay and arrested someone without warrant for either, and opened fire during a situation that was under control, then so be it. You can answer for your own decisions" (removed the rolling R's for the sake of ease). This showed not only a complete lack of understanding of the situation, but an open desire to express discontent at the idea of alternatives being considered.

Also notable during this round was when laser fire was heard from the brig, he reported it before running straight into the area, despite my objections, which leads onto the second interaction.

During an earlier round that I don't have the ID for, Luxo Khazarazir made two decisions which I consider to be very much an attempt to validhunt. I was a diona that had just shown that I was hostile by showing an officer that I was armed. I got her to back off, which she was a rather good sport about interaction-wise, before Luxo Khazarazir ordered her to shoot the fuel tank right next to me. The issue with this is twofold: one, an internal affairs agent has no place in ordering security to do anything, least of all kill someone. Two, his decision was made immediately after I was declared hostile, which was intended to immediately take me out of the round.

Later in the round, after having survived that first incident, I was in the brig attempting to set up defenses to recover from being blown up earlier. At this point, Luxo Khazarazir charges in with an e-sword and a chemical sprayer full of plant-be-gone. I start to speak to him, when he shoots me with it several times, and runs off. This, of course, kills me very quickly, with no interaction whatsoever. I ahelped this, and he was spoken to, but it's quite clear from our interactions over the pager that he got away with it and that he doesn't consider what he did to be wrong ("I was asked by staff about it and they understood my side on it and that's all I care about").

Finally, I am not the only person that has taken issue with Luxo Khazarazir's play-style. I'm not going to name names, but both he and I encourage you to post if you have any grievances with how his character has acted. I didn't want to make a character complaint about this, but he blocked me after I raised my issues with him personally, so I'm left with not much other choice.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yes for one incident, and no for the other. On the incident where I did not, it was because I did not deem it a single issue large enough to be ahelped, but rather something that I could speak to him about personally.

Approximate Date/Time: 1/20/2018, 4:11 AM UTC.

[Munks]

For the most recent issue here, I was dismissive of it because it was not my investigation. I investigated a report of him entering the medbay and arresting someone without warrant. The officer was hunting down the person in question without having witnessed it beforehand; my investigation of the incident led me to believe that the arrest took place in a central location of the Medbay, one which the Officer could not have possibly witnessed it without having been in the Medbay already, searching for him. Which is where the issue comes in, he had no warrant to be in medbay nor to be actively hunting them down. I concluded such in my report and sent it to the Head of Security, who concurred. Later on, you had your own case involving the individual. My stance on it then was, and now continues to be: It's none of my business and I have/had no stake in it. Internal Affairs Agents can conduct their own investigations without needing to partner up. He complained to you, and you initiated your investigation. After your investigation, you approached me for my take. I was not informed of the situation, because I specifically went out of my way to let you handle your own investigation without staring over your shoulder. My opinion, which as I've already said IAA's are allowed to have because they are not soulless robots, is that it was not the first time the Officer went out of line that shift. That was it.

What offended me during your conversation with me in the byond pager was that you took me distancing myself from your case and allowing you to investigate and conclude whatever you see fit to conclude as "conduct unbecoming an Internal Affairs Agent". I was not aware of the specifics of the incident, I specifically AVOIDED looking into the incident because I believed, now regrettably, that you were perfectly capable of handling your own investigation. I offered my genuine opinion on the situation after you approached me, and it was based on my past experience and my personal take on the officer. It was off the record, unofficial, not written down or forwarded to anyone in any way shape or form. You spun this out of proportion into me being biased and partial and unbecoming an IAA. That is ridiculous and you not getting this is what made me uninterested in continuing our byond conversation.

On the small issue of me responding to laser fire -- I did not immediately rush into it as you keep saying I did. I reported it immediately, and I stood there until it was all quiet -- and then I looked. And when I saw ISD had things under control (they were shooting a rogue drone) I had no further interaction on the matter.

On the matter of the diona: I only now know that your biased point of view is that of the antag who got killed and it makes me even less willing to touch base with you on it because I was ahelped, bwoinked, and defended my position which was accepted by the staff questioning me at the time. A rampant diona wearing body armor was gallivanting through the station with grenades and a fuel tank heading for the bridge. I, with the lone officer, saw you and ducked away behind cover. We both were at a loss for how to handle it, so I offered advice -- not an order, as you spun it, but professional advice that perhaps it would be best to make a pre-emptive strike as opposed to letting you possible blow your way into the bridge and steal, inevitably, all access.

This was a dodgy and controversial decision, and what staff primarily seemed to have an issue with, and I understood that then and still do now. In the heat of the moment, I advised the officer to do it (IAAs are capable of advising, according to the wiki page) and I take responsibility for it as well as continue to believe it was the right call considering this one officer was the extent of security at the time, I believe, and a single lone officer would NOT be prepared to fight an antag diona with body armor, grenades, and all access. You were not killed by it and you proceeded to chase us, justifiably, with grenades. I became separated from the officer when fleeing.

This is once again where I will begin taking offense at your biased report of the situation. As I would later learn, the officer died after we were separated. She was killed because she stopped to try to talk to you, and you threw a shortened-detonation grenade at her feet while she was preoccupied talking. Hopefully you see where this frustrates me because now you're writing a complaint about me attacking you when you were talking (you werent but we'll get to that later) when you yourself are guilty of the exact same thing.

After we separated, due to the limited size of security at the time and lack of command, I saw fit -- as someone with a loyalty implant and responsibility to act in the interests of Nanotrasen -- to assist and enable the officer in any way possible. I did so by acquiring her a sprayer of weed killer. It was a crude and heavy response, but it was one officer up against a diona wearing body armor with a box of grenades. I sought out the Officer over comms and after a lengthy period of no response, I concluded, correctly, that she was deceased at your hands. I then sought safety in the brig, and found you. You did not try to talk to me. You took out a grenade and immediately moved towards me. Believing there to be no ISD whatsoever, with no one to rely on, I took it upon myself to spray you with the weed killer I gathered for the officer. You continued to attack after I ran out of spray so I retreated -- first into the lobby, where you followed and threw a grenade at me, then into the hallway. After retreating for a second time, telling you to stay back, I brandished an energy sword. I didn't approach you with it, but I did threaten you with it after you continued to charge me. I had the energy sword because just moments prior I had run into another attempted murderer in the hallway, a bartender who was trying to kill someone. I flashed the bartender, and confiscated the weapons while allowing him to run off, unarmed, trying to avoid as much as possible being a judge jury and executioner. After i brandished the sword, you finally keeled over and died from the spray, and i secured your gear (handing it off to ISD as soon as the officer returned from cloning) and distanced myself from any further interaction with ISD or involvement in security matters because I knew full well I had been heavily involved in ISD for an IAA and I did not like that I had to take such involvement as much as I nonetheless believed it justified and necessary.

We spoke plenty about this personally, and you made it clear you had no intention to write a complaint about it (yet here we are). I explained every single word of this post to you personally and the conversation continued to go in circles so I ended it. At the time, I thought your vastly oversimplified summary of "hunted and killed an antagonist as IAA" was simply a lack of information, but now that I know its the antag in question simply upset over being killed after having wiped the only ISD officer I do not regret my decision to block you because you weren't getting it and I don't think you will.

[Ornias]

Long, ugly post time.

First Incident:

For the most recent issue here, I was dismissive of it because it was not my investigation. I investigated a report of him entering the medbay and arresting someone without warrant. The officer was hunting down the person in question without having witnessed it beforehand; my investigation of the incident led me to believe that the arrest took place in a central location of the Medbay, one which the Officer could not have possibly witnessed it without having been in the Medbay already, searching for him. Which is where the issue comes in, he had no warrant to be in medbay nor to be actively hunting them down. I concluded such in my report and sent it to the Head of Security, who concurred. Later on, you had your own case involving the individual. My stance on it then was, and now continues to be: It's none of my business and I have/had no stake in it. Internal Affairs Agents can conduct their own investigations without needing to partner up. He complained to you, and you initiated your investigation. After your investigation, you approached me for my take. I was not informed of the situation, because I specifically went out of my way to let you handle your own investigation without staring over your shoulder. My opinion, which as I've already said IAA's are allowed to have because they are not soulless robots, is that it was not the first time the Officer went out of line that shift. That was it.

 

This is exactly what I was talking about in my complaint. You came to the conclusion that it couldn't have been witnessed, so instead of getting his side of the story, you decided to jump to conclusions. The captain himself witnessed and ordered the arrest, and any kind of proper investigation or attempt to honestly discuss what happened with the officer would have uncovered that.

In my case, you were vocally supportive of the head of security's decision to remove the officer from the case and, if I'm not mistaken, said that a demotion would not be amiss. Logs will show if that's true. Saying 'that was it' is blatantly wrong - your demeanor and actions throughout the shift showed nothing but a desire to show you were right. I never said IAA's need to be soulless robots or anything close, quite the opposite, but they need to be capable of doing their job. And a large part of their job is impartiality.

 

What offended me during your conversation with me in the byond pager was that you took me distancing myself from your case and allowing you to investigate and conclude whatever you see fit to conclude as "conduct unbecoming an Internal Affairs Agent". I was not aware of the specifics of the incident, I specifically AVOIDED looking into the incident because I believed, now regrettably, that you were perfectly capable of handling your own investigation. I offered my genuine opinion on the situation after you approached me, and it was based on my past experience and my personal take on the officer.

This is blatantly false. My issue with your playstyle was that you were not impartial, and that you were too involved with accusing the officer of things he had quite obviously not done.

 

It was off the record, unofficial, not written down or forwarded to anyone in any way shape or form. You spun this out of proportion into me being biased and partial and unbecoming an IAA. That is ridiculous and you not getting this is what made me uninterested in continuing our byond conversation.

This is only one part of what you did. Your continual enforcement of the idea that the officer was somehow guilty of incompetence was my issue with your conduct that shift - you were pushing your agenda, and what you said to me privately made up only a small portion of it.

 

On the small issue of me responding to laser fire -- I did not immediately rush into it as you keep saying I did. I reported it immediately, and I stood there until it was all quiet -- and then I looked. And when I saw ISD had things under control (they were shooting a rogue drone) I had no further interaction on the matter.

'Stood there until it was all quiet'. That's about the space of five seconds after the last laser shot, and even after I said it would be a silly decision to head out you did it anyway. This is quite a small thing, although the fact you can't see the issue with it is just another sign you're not interested in seriously looking at your actions.

 

Second Incident:

On the matter of the diona: I only now know that your biased point of view is that of the antag who got killed and it makes me even less willing to touch base with you on it because I was ahelped, bwoinked, and defended my position which was accepted by the staff questioning me at the time. A rampant diona wearing body armor was gallivanting through the station with grenades and a fuel tank heading for the bridge. I, with the lone officer, saw you and ducked away behind cover. We both were at a loss for how to handle it, so I offered advice -- not an order, as you spun it, but professional advice that perhaps it would be best to make a pre-emptive strike as opposed to letting you possible blow your way into the bridge and steal, inevitably, all access.

This was a dodgy and controversial decision, and what staff primarily seemed to have an issue with, and I understood that then and still do now. In the heat of the moment, I advised the officer to do it (IAAs are capable of advising, according to the wiki page) and I take responsibility for it as well as continue to believe it was the right call considering this one officer was the extent of security at the time, I believe, and a single lone officer would NOT be prepared to fight an antag diona with body armor, grenades, and all access. You were not killed by it and you proceeded to chase us, justifiably, with grenades. I became separated from the officer when fleeing.

IAA's are capable of advising on regulation matters. What you did was advise on an execution, which is well outside of your scope. I was told by the officer herself that it was an order, so she clearly took it as such. I killed the officer who shot it, and ignored you, even walking directly past you.

 

This is once again where I will begin taking offense at your biased report of the situation. As I would later learn, the officer died after we were separated. She was killed because she stopped to try to talk to you, and you threw a shortened-detonation grenade at her feet while she was preoccupied talking. Hopefully you see where this frustrates me because now you're writing a complaint about me attacking you when you were talking (you werent but we'll get to that later) when you yourself are guilty of the exact same thing.

She caught it. It was a trick, which paid off and killed her, after she said that she was not willing to let us have peace (quite fairly). I didn't charge up to her and throw a grenade without interaction. I pulled a trick to kill her, after she had, from my perspective, attempted to kill me in a similar way earlier (by shooting the fuel tank).

Wearing Face Over Mask says, "Caaatttcchhh."

You prime the fragmentation grenade! 1 seconds!

Wearing Face Over Mask has thrown the fragmentation grenade.

Katheryn Linerbord catches the fragmentation grenade!

 

I did so by acquiring her a sprayer of weed killer. It was a crude and heavy response, but it was one officer up against a diona wearing body armor with a box of grenades. I sought out the Officer over comms and after a lengthy period of no response, I concluded, correctly, that she was deceased at your hands. I then sought safety in the brig, and found you. You did not try to talk to me. You took out a grenade and immediately moved towards me. Believing there to be no ISD whatsoever, with no one to rely on, I took it upon myself to spray you with the weed killer I gathered for the officer. You continued to attack after I ran out of spray so I retreated -- first into the lobby, where you followed and threw a grenade at me, then into the hallway. After retreating for a second time, telling you to stay back, I brandished an energy sword. I didn't approach you with it, but I did threaten you with it after you continued to charge me. I had the energy sword because just moments prior I had run into another attempted murderer in the hallway, a bartender who was trying to kill someone. I flashed the bartender, and confiscated the weapons while allowing him to run off, unarmed, trying to avoid as much as possible being a judge jury and executioner. After i brandished the sword, you finally keeled over and died from the spray

Again, this is blatantly incorrect. I did try to talk to you. Logs will confirm this. Reading chat would have confirmed this. I had a grenade in hand because that was my main weapon at the time, and I didn't even try to attack you until after you had already sprayed me four or five times with the sprayer as I was talking. The reason I didn't try to interact with you after that was because you'd already sealed my fate in a very low-rp way by spraying me with weedkiller. Unlike the rest of what you said, where you're just trying to twist things to make me look bad, this one is a blatant lie.

 

We spoke plenty about this personally, and you made it clear you had no intention to write a complaint about it (yet here we are). I explained every single word of this post to you personally and the conversation continued to go in circles so I ended it.

I made it clear I didn't want to make a complaint because I wanted to discuss it with you without incriminating you. Instead, after I'd sent only two "sets" of messages you blocked me, getting offended over me trying to talk to you and discuss the fact that you'd been playing poorly. I think this sums it up quite well:

 

At the time, I thought your vastly oversimplified summary of "hunted and killed an antagonist as IAA" was simply a lack of information, but now that I know its the antag in question simply upset over being killed after having wiped the only ISD officer I do not regret my decision to block you because you weren't getting it and I don't think you will.

Grow up. All you've done is show that you don't care about improving, and are trying to act as if I'm just someone whos mad they died instead of someone that has a genuine issue with the fact you were playing an officer as an IAA, and a bad one at that. You made stupid decisions, refused to speak about them, and acted like an ass when someone tried to talk about them.

 

TL;DR:You're trying to act like I'm an idiot because I have an issue with your playstyle, trying to misrepresent or lie about what happened, and acting like a child when someone tries to talk to you about what you did wrong.

[ShameOnTurtles]

I was the officer Gavin Matthews in this round. I want to start out by saying that I have no OOC issue with how the HoS handled anything, and the subject of this complaint is the IAA, not him. Anyways.

In logs, for the sake of sanity, I will bold my comments.

I spawned just after the round started, got geared, and was relaxing when the Captain saw the surgeon, Eric Mcloskey, drunk. The Captain then ordered security to arrest them for Neglect of Duty.

Logs for this interaction:

 

[02:12:20] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) i would like an explanation as to why a medical staff member is drunk on duty

[02:12:33] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) I wach OFf duty

[02:12:42] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) you are currently on duty

[02:12:52] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) I' JusT KaMe B'Ack

[02:13:03] bSw-arve EMOTE: Colton Stern/SebkillerDK : Colton Stern nods

[02:13:21] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) that is irrelevant

[02:13:27] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) you are still drunk on duty

This is when the captain witnesses, in person, the surgeon being drunk.

[02:14:08] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) security, please detain Eric Mcloskey for neglect on duty, he is currently drunk.

[02:14:15] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) as a medical staff member

[02:15:01] bSw-arve SAY: Ferner/(Javier Baudelaire) : (Ceti Basic) On the way, But I'm just a Cadet.

[02:15:14] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) we have an officer

[02:15:27] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) where is the officer?

[02:15:35] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Let's link up, cadet.

 

No warrant was asked for, or offered, as a loyalty implanted Captain was ordering the arrest. Since there was no Head of Security at that time in the round, there were in direct command.

A Warrant must be provided for almost any search or arrest conducted under code green. Exceptions to this rule exist if an officer is a direct witness to a crime, or may reasonably conclude that failure to act will pose an immediate danger to the crew and/or station.

This is relevant to the above and I'll be referring to corporate regulations a couple times throughout this post.

Next, I head over to the medical bay with the cadet in tow. The door from the lobby to the bay is open, so I step in it to stop it closing and talk to the medical staff waiting at the desk to let them know what's going on, so it's not just a random officer and cadet rushing into their bay.

Logs:

 

[02:16:18] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Alright. Follow my lead.

[02:16:21] bSw-arve SAY: Ferner/(Javier Baudelaire) : (Ceti Basic) Yes, Sir.

[02:16:24] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Any idea where the guy was?

[02:16:29] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) AI, location on the suspect?

[02:16:44] bSw-arve SAY: MrGodZilla/(B.U.D.D.Y) : Medbay lounge.

[02:17:14] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Medical?

02:17:19] bSw-arve SAY: Yonnimer/(Michael) : (Ceti Basic) Yes?

[02:17:24] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) We're entering in search of a suspect, ordered by the captain.

[02:17:26] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Just so you know.

[02:17:28] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Come on, cadet.

[02:17:29] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) wait

[02:17:31] bSw-arve SAY: Yonnimer/(Michael) : (Ceti Basic) The surgeon?

[02:17:32] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) you need a warrent

[02:17:40] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) No, we don't.

[02:17:44] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Come on, cadet.

This is when I just walked in to the Medbay. Refer to the excerpt from corporate regulations that's quoted above.

 

 

A virologist from the lobby follows me, and we talk for a bit before I walk past him with the cadet to find the surgeon.

Logs:

 

[02:17:47] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) #you do

[02:17:48] bSw-arve SAY: McKinney/(Jazmyn Kavalier) : (Ceti Basic) Its code green yes you do.

[02:17:50] bSw-arve SAY: Ferner/(Javier Baudelaire) : (Ceti Basic) The surgeon was seen drunk, by the captain.

[02:17:54] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) so?

[02:17:59] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) you still need a warent

As shown by regulations, this is false.

[02:18:10] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) I don't have time or need to debate regulations with you.

[02:18:14] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) so go get it and we'#ll be happy

[02:18:22] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Hey.

I start talking to the surgeon now.

[02:18:34] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Mcloskey, had much to drink lately?

[02:18:40] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Nope

[02:18:51] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) I Did Drink Though

[02:18:57] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Uh huh.

[02:19:02] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Captain says he saw you drunk.

[02:19:08] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) I'm going to need you to come with us.

[02:19:09] bSw-arve PDA: Joseph Garrett (PDA: PDA-Joseph Garrett (Virologist)) sent "IAA the security officers barged into Medbay with no Warrent on a code green, please sort this mess out, as its diabolical" to PDA-Luxo Khazarazir (Internal Affairs Agent)

Here is when it's first reported to IA.

[02:19:21] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Warrent?

[02:19:24] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) You're not under arrest at this time, but you are being detained.

[02:19:29] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Okie Doke

[02:19:32] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Were To?

[02:19:35] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) No warrant necessary.

I can see how these two statements from me could be put together and misconstrued, yet that's not even the case. The IAA just decided not to listen to one side, from what I can tell.

[02:19:36] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) Officer

[02:19:38] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Security.

[02:19:40] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) you need a warrent

[02:19:43] bSw-arve EMOTE: Gavin Matthews/ShameOnTurtles : Gavin Matthews glances at Garrett.

[02:19:46] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) ask the Cap or HoS for one

[02:19:52] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) If you don't piss off, I'll arrest you for obstruction.

I'd had enough of the doctor-lawyer trying to instruct me on regulation he was incorrect on, so I put my foot down as he was impeding security at this point, including putting himself physically in between security and the surgeon.

[02:19:55] bSw-arve SAY: Ferner/(Javier Baudelaire) : (Ceti Basic) Affirmative.

[02:19:57] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Uh Oh

[02:19:59] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) its the Corprate reg

[02:20:01] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) To Sec?

[02:20:02] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) really?

[02:20:02] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Let's go, Mcloskey.

[02:20:07] bSw-arve SAY: Legodude9/(Joseph Garrett) : (Ceti Basic) threats?

[02:20:27] bSw-arve PDA: Joseph Garrett (PDA: PDA-Joseph Garrett (Virologist)) sent "IAA you going to sort this or what?" to PDA-Luxo Khazarazir (Internal Affairs Agent)

[02:20:58] bSw-arve PDA: Joseph Garrett (PDA: PDA-Joseph Garrett (Virologist)) sent "as they just arrested our surgeon on the word of mouth and with no you are under arrest just cuffs on and dragged away" to PDA-Luxo Khazarazir (Internal Affairs Agent)

I want to very clearly point out that at no time were cuffs applied, or the surgeon dragged. This is clearly shown by logs. If the IAA had done any actual investigation into the issue, they would have known this.

 

 

After we get to the brig I put them in the holding cell and go to handle someone at the front desk. The IAA comes to investigate the issue after an incident with a hostile in their office, but just seems to kind of... ignore what people are saying? I'm not sure what they were doing.

Logs:

 

[02:21:39] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Agent, where was the hostile?

[02:21:39] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) Can Khazarazir see the warrant for the surgeon's arrest?

[02:21:46] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) Security maintenance.

[02:21:49] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) The infraction was witnessed, no warrant is required.

The first time it's said and explained.

[02:21:51] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) It is vented.

[02:21:50] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Guess What

[02:21:54] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Didnt Have One

[02:21:55] bSw-arve EMOTE: Gavin Matthews/ShameOnTurtles : Gavin Matthews nods.

[02:21:57] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) What infraction?

[02:22:01] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Neglect of duty.

[02:22:01] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Drunk?

[02:22:12] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) Surgeon, where were you arrested?

[02:22:17] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Detained?

[02:22:25] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) where in the medbay?

[02:22:38] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Guess What

[02:22:45] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) What is it?

[02:22:47] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Never Was Drunk IN The Medbay

[02:22:51] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) Mcloskey, the question, please, where were you in the medbay when you were arrested.

[02:22:53] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) Physically.

This really shouldn't matter. We were there with the permission of the captain.

[02:23:02] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) When I Was Arrested?

[02:23:10] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) By The Vendors

[02:23:19] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) They did not present a warrant?

[02:23:24] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Nope

[02:23:34] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) A Guy Said They Had Too

[02:23:49] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) But He Said They Would Arrest For Obsturtion

[02:23:59] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) He Just Said Come With Me

[02:24:02] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) Whom?

[02:24:08] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) The Officer

[02:24:14] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) Yes. What officer.

[02:24:20] bSw-arve SAY: Sdtwbaj/(Marcus Halloway) : (Ceti Basic) What's Mcloskey do?

[02:24:29] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Neglect of Duty

[02:24:29] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) He has been illegally arreste.d

Woah. Slow down there. With literally zero investigation into anyone's side but surgeon's, they blurt out this, ignoring explanations from myself and without even verifying if the Captain witnessed the infraction and ordered the arrest.

[02:24:29] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Mattheds?

[02:24:40] bSw-arve SAY: Sdtwbaj/(Marcus Halloway) : (Ceti Basic) Did the Captain ask for the NoD charge?

[02:24:41] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) The infraction was witnessed as I've said about 4 times.

[02:24:45] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Yes. He saw it.

[02:24:48] bSw-arve SAY: Sibg/(Eric Mcloskey) : (Ceti Basic) Hey

[02:24:50] bSw-arve SAY: Sdtwbaj/(Marcus Halloway) : (Ceti Basic) Alright.

[02:25:03] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) Security entered the medbay without warrant and arrested him again without warrant. You don't 'witness' it from the hallway.

I didn't catch this in game, and was really surprised to find it in logs. The IAA had completely ignored everything I said about the Captain, and only taking into account the information from the surgeon, assumed we had "witnessed" it. This was clearly explained to him, and the surgeon even said he wasn't drunk in the medbay so it would've been entirely plausible for us to witness him drunk outside it. They showed complete disregard for proper investigation of an issue.

 

 

The only time I was ever contacted by the IAA for them to get my side was in this interaction.

Logs:

 

[02:31:44] bSw-arve SAY: Munks/(Luxo Khazarazir) : (Ceti Basic) Officer Matthews to the internal affairs division please.

[02:32:33] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) On my way. Chief, if you need me, I'll be in the IA office.

[02:32:50] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) someone in a mining suit is trying to enter my office

[02:32:56] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) RUN

[02:33:02] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) I can respond if needed.

[02:33:10] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) THEY HAVE EXPLOSIVES!

[02:33:13] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) One secon-

[02:33:14] bSw-arve EMOTE: Luxo Khazarazir/Munks : Luxo Khazarazir sighs.

[02:33:16] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) I need to go nevermind.

At this point I decide that saving the Captain's life and stopping a hostile is much more important than reiterating what I've already said to this IAA, so I make my excuses and leave, expecting to be called back after the issue. That never happened.

 

 

That's about it in regards to that issue.

In response to Munks:

I investigated a report of him entering the medbay and arresting someone without warrant. The officer was hunting down the person in question without having witnessed it beforehand; my investigation of the incident led me to believe that the arrest took place in a central location of the Medbay, one which the Officer could not have possibly witnessed it without having been in the Medbay already, searching for him. Which is where the issue comes in, he had no warrant to be in medbay nor to be actively hunting them down. I concluded such in my report and sent it to the Head of Security, who concurred.

But... neither of you ever tried to get my side for this! Well, that's technically false, you did call me to your office before I had to leave for more critical issues, but you ignored my explanations when you asked for them, and created an entirely false report because of it. That's not being a proper IAA.

The only thing left to cover is the laser fire issue, really,

Logs leading up to and including the shooting:

 

[02:34:21] bSw-arve SAY: Ferner/(Javier Baudelaire) : (Ceti Basic) He took the captain's pistol from his quarters.

[02:34:30] bSw-arve SAY: MrGodZilla/(B.U.D.D.Y) : Captain's Locker has been stolen.

[02:34:34] bSw-arve SAY: Thatnewguy1/(Jaxon Wiliams) : (Ceti Basic) someone stole the captains gun!

[02:34:42] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) they have taken my locker

From this I could determine he was definitely armed - and with lethals. Additionally, he had used explosives to get into the Captain's Office and had stolen sensitive items from the locker.

[02:35:12] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) Matthews is geared for EVA but I'm not equipped to handle any armed hostiles.

[02:37:01] bSw-arve SAY: Kaedwuff/(Tazhir Kra'xis) : (Ceti Basic) All ssecurity memberss to the foyer of the department, now pleasse.

[02:37:01] bSw-arve SAY: SebkillerDK/(Colton Stern) : (Ceti Basic) caiden, you have 30 seconds to surrender.

The HoS discusses with the officers for a bit who is getting armed up and going with EVA equipment to where the hostile currently is.|

[02:40:55] bSw-arve PDA: Gavin Matthews (PDA: PDA-Gavin Matthews (Security Officer)) sent "Location on the hostile? comms compromised." to B.U.D.D.Y (AI)

[02:41:03] bSw-arve PDA: B.U.D.D.Y (PDA: B.U.D.D.Y (AI)) sent "Bridge." to PDA-Gavin Matthews (Security Officer)

Caiden had previously said things on security radio, so I could determine this.

[02:41:50] bSw-arve SAY: Kaedwuff/(Tazhir Kra'xis) : (Ceti Basic) Certainly, Moyersss. We're coming to deliver the weaponsss to you right now, perssonally.

Shortly after this he gave two officers, including myself, energy carbines and sent us on our way with no further instructions.

[02:43:47] bSw-arve SAY: Smifboy78/(Kri'aish Ro'han) : (Ceti Basic) Firrrre on sight?

[02:43:57] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) One surrender call.

[02:44:02] bSw-arve SAY: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) : (Ceti Basic) He hasnt actually shot anyone.

Unfortunately from this point on the attack/aim logs aren't shown, so I'll paste what I have from the game client here instead.

Kri'aish Ro'han aims the energy carbine at Unknown!

[Common] Kri'aish Ro'han says, "Don't move."

Kri'aish Ro'han talks into the security radio headset

Kri'aish Ro'han says, "Don't move."

You will now aim rather than fire.

[Common] Kri'aish Ro'han says, "Surrrrrrrenderr now."

Kri'aish Ro'han talks into the security radio headset

Kri'aish Ro'han says, "Surrrrrrrenderr now."

Gavin Matthews aims the energy carbine at Unknown!

Kri'aish Ro'han pulls the trigger reflexively!

Kri'aish Ro'han fires the energy carbine!

Kri'aish Ro'han lowers the energy carbine.

Gavin Matthews pulls the trigger reflexively!

You fire the energy carbine!

Gavin Matthews lowers the energy carbine.

You will no longer aim rather than fire.

[security] Caiden Moyers says, "Right, so.. I was willing for a chat."

The laser misses Unknown narrowly!

The laser misses Unknown narrowly!

[security] Caiden Moyers says, "Ow."

[Common] Kri'aish Ro'han says, "Orr be firred up-"

Kri'aish Ro'han talks into the security radio headset

Kri'aish Ro'han says, "Orr be firred up-"

Unknown aims the antique laser gun at Kri'aish Ro'han!

Kri'aish Ro'han/(Smifboy78)(JMP): the fuck.

Gavin Matthews/(ShameOnTurtles): "|ow?"

[security] Caiden Moyers says, "Now the tables have turned"

Unknown/(Tylaaar)(JMP): rng just

Unknown/(Tylaaar)(JMP): saved me

[Common] Gavin Matthews exclaims, "Drop it!"

Gavin Matthews exclaims, "Drop it!"

[security] Caiden Moyers says, "GUN DOWN, OFFICER ON THE RIGHT"

[security] Caiden Moyers says, "FIVE SECONDS."

[security] B.U.D.D.Y states, "Lethal is advised, but not ordered."

Gavin Matthews whispers, "Move back when I say, I'll cover you."

[security] Gavin Matthews says, "Head of Personnel, get the fuck out of here."

Gavin Matthews says, "Head of Personnel, get the fuck out of here."

Kri'aish Ro'han says, "We called ofrr surrrrrrrenderrr."

Faith Webb waves

[security] Caiden Moyers shouts, "DROP IT!"

Kri'aish Ro'han says, "Fucking shoot him."

[Common] George Schmidt asks, "Has anyone misplaced a child?"

You fire the energy carbine!

The laser misses Unknown narrowly!

The energy carbine is not ready to fire again!

The energy carbine is not ready to fire again!

You fire the energy carbine!

Unknown is hit by the laser in the chest!

ATTACK: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) shot (/obj/item/projectile/beam) Tylaaar/(Caiden Moyers) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

Kri'aish Ro'han fires the energy carbine!

Unknown pulls the trigger reflexively!

Unknown fires the antique laser gun!

Unknown lowers the antique laser gun.

Kri'aish Ro'han is hit by the laser in the chest!

ATTACK: Tylaaar/(Caiden Moyers) shot (/obj/item/projectile/beam) Smifboy78/(Kri'aish Ro'han) (INTENT: HELP) (JMP)

You fire the energy carbine!

The laser misses Unknown narrowly!

You fire the energy carbine!

Unknown is hit by the laser in the chest!

ATTACK: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) shot (/obj/item/projectile/beam) Tylaaar/(Caiden Moyers) (INTENT: HARM) (JMP)

Kri'aish Ro'han fires the energy carbine!

Faith Webb fires the energy pistol!

You fire the energy carbine!

You fire the energy carbine!

Kri'aish Ro'han has thrown the energy carbine.

You put the energy carbine into the security satchel.

Kri'aish Ro'han says, "Fucking-"

 

 

I want to reiterate that I am not making this complaint about the HoS, just the IAA. While I am annoyed that the HoS gave us lethals, and then sent us up against a hostile using lethals, and expected us to use stuns that's an IC issue. The laser issue was used by the IAA to push for a demotion for me with the HoS. Zero investigation. Much conduct unbecoming of an IAA.

That's about it.

[Munks]

No warrant was asked for, or offered, as a loyalty implanted Captain was ordering the arrest. Since there was no Head of Security at that time in the round, there were in direct command.

And it was code green, and like you just said you didn't personally witness it, you were responding to the Captain witnessing it. You hunted down someone just because the Captain told you to. The Captain is not above regulation. The Captain has access to the warrant program for a reason. The Captain could have taken two seconds to file an arrest warrant, which is required under code green. I didn't "ignore" you, I correctly assumed that you decided that Captain saying to arrest someone means you don't have to have a warrant, which is wrong. There was no emergency situation at the time which required circumvention of warrant regulations, and a doctor being drunk on duty is not an emergency in and of itself. Your only defense of your action was that the Captain told you to do it -- so my conclusion was, and continues to be, that it was unlawful.

I fail to see how I repeatedly 'pushed' for demotion. I pointed to illegal arrest in my report findings, considering you arrested someone without a warrant (and threatened them with obstruction simply for asking about the warrant). I took the fact that your only provided explanation was that the Captain ordered it into account for this recommendation. It was unfortunately rushed due to the antag going loud, and I regret that I didn't have time to interview you proper, but I filed anyway because you already made clear in your brief conversation that you arrested without a warrant for something you didn't personally witness because the Captain said it was okay (and after the fact, you personally state that you simply would have reiterated what we already spoke about, so how incomplete was my understanding of the situation?). I later reminded the Head of Security of this incident when he personally called me to his office to discuss your performance, and after he had independently come to the conclusion to demote you -- he didn't notice my report sitting on his fax until well after he decided to demote you, which means my input had literally zero impact on his choice. I personally didn't see the point in the conversation as demoting his staff isn't necessarily an IA issue and I reminded him that he is well within his rights to demote -- maybe adding that I wouldn't personally disagree with his decision to do so based on what I'd learned of him. Then I left the office while the other Agent reported his findings on the shooting which I had no knowledge of and unfortunately decided that he could handle the investigation himself, which now appears to be an infraction on my part because by letting him investigate the matter himself when I personally knew nothing about it, I wasn't doing my duty as an Internal Affairs agent.

I can accept that the nod of agreement when the HoS informed me of his decision to demote the Officer was a breach of impartiality. It's a minute, subtle but important detail that I didn't take into account and regardless of it's impact I believe my IAA play is better for being informed that even such small instances of agreement breaks impartiality. But my pointing out the past actions of a potential demotion and possibly agreeing with the decision to demote doesn't strike me as nearly such a breach of IA conduct as you base half your complaint on it being. It's a fuckup to be sure, but one made after the course had been chosen, and did not impact the decision made. If you pointed this out during our byond conversation I would have welcomed it -- instead you reaffirmed my "conduct unbecoming" simply pointing out that between you and me I privately noted that I believed the HoS was right to demote, I showed a personal opinion on the matter and that such a breach of conduct is enough to comprise half of your entire complaint, the other half being me killing you after you already killed someone, were coming after me, and there was no Command or Security whatsoever to look to for help.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Guest

[Kaed]

The head of security in question here, from the Matthews thing.

Listen, bucko. You came into the round a considerable amount of time after much of the stuff happened, so I'm willing to acknowledge that most of what you got was hearsay. But don't make the mistake of thinking that Khazarazir somehow unfairly colored my perception of poor innocent Matthews by filing his report. For starters, I arrived after the actual drunk doctor arrest happened, and did not read that report I was faxed by Khazarazir until he literally pointed it out to me, while you were standing in the office. That report only affirmed what I had already come to feel about Officer Matthews.

I was also willing to assume that you were just roleplaying a robot IAA with your irritating tendency to try and skate by on the most vague regulatory technicalities to excuse Matthews actions, but you clearly are here, OOC, defending those same views.

So let's get started here on the pile of muck you've drudged up here.

 

 

This (specifically the second sentence about exceptions) is the bit of corporate regulations you used to justify Matthews marching into the medbay, without a warrant, and arresting a drunk doctor'. You also cited the bit about the captain ordering him arrested. There are several important contexts to this situation you have failed to take into account.

-The captain is not above regulations. The corporate regulations literally say that only a few sentences above the warrant bit. They can bypass them for the purposes of a state of emergency, yes, but they cannot order, especially in a code green situation where no crew members are in danger, anyone to violate corporate regulations. A doctor being drunk in the medbay is not a state of emergency. The captain being 'a loyalty implanted head' does not excuse your lack of procedure.

-The exception for witnessing a crime is intended to allow officers to act in defense of the crew if someone is endangering them. The charge of 'hooliganism' is already very nebulous. Arresting someone for being drunk is literally something they cover in the hooliganism charge description, and it mostly comes down to 'don't bother really unless they are being disruptive or belligerent'. So claiming you 'saw a crime in progress' when you arrived on account of 'he was visibly drunk' is pretty laughable. Neglect of duty is similarly nebulous charge and should be treated with care, rather than just summarily applied without a warrant because the captain said to arrest someone.

-The process of obtaining a warrant is not an ordeal. There was absolutely nothing stopping security from spending a few extra minutes performing the necessary regulatory procedures before heading to the medbay to arrest the doctor. Instead, Matthews just beelined straight for the medbay and arrested the doctor without bothering to even ask to enter. Without a warrant in this situation, he could even reasonably have been charged with trespassing.

These all seem like entirely valid reasons for an IAA to get on your ass about.

I don't know you, ShameOnTurtles, but you were a source of frustration for the both the captain and me during that round. Your hyper-aggressiveness, while it might have been 'technically allowed' on account of the miner had some kind of dangerous weapon (I never heard what it was? A mining laser? Don't know, largely irrelevant for the purposes of this) repeatedly caused the situation to be exacerbated. I told you after the first time I heard you had fired first on the clearly scared, armed civilian that you needed to exercise more restraint and not jump to lethal force. And then, only ten minutes or so later, I am witness to a radio conversation that roughly went like this (I do not have the exact logs)

Moyers: I want to talk

Officer: We're not going to shoot.

*10 seconds later*

Moyers: *screaming about being shot by Matthews*

I deliberately gave you the gun that had a stun setting for a reason. rather than the more deadly lethal-only thing in the armory. I sort of assumed it would be self evident in how I did not give you the big guns. I admit that I could have elaborated more about my desire to capture him without lethal force, but I was pretty clear about my disapproval after you did it the first time.

I only relieved you of your duty on the case after you ignored my orders and did it again. I also note, if it matters, that the captain was riding me to remove you from the Moyers case too, so I wasn't alone in thinking you were being unreasonably violent.

[ShameOnTurtles]

No warrant was asked for, or offered, as a loyalty implanted Captain was ordering the arrest. Since there was no Head of Security at that time in the round, there were in direct command.

And it was code green, and like you just said you didn't personally witness it, you were responding to the Captain witnessing it. You hunted down someone just because the Captain told you to. The Captain is not above regulation. The Captain has access to the warrant program for a reason. The Captain could have taken two seconds to file an arrest warrant, which is required under code green.

The Captain is my direct superior. He is loyalty implanted. He ordered the arrest of a surgeon because he witnessed an infraction worthy of arrest. As I quoted in my previous reply, this clearly fulfills the exceptions stated in the Corporate Regulations page in regards to warrants. I'm not sure where the technicality is here.

 

 

This (specifically the second sentence about exceptions) is the bit of corporate regulations you used to justify Matthews marching into the medbay, without a warrant, and arresting a drunk doctor'. You also cited the bit about the captain ordering him arrested. There are several important contexts to this situation you have failed to take into account.

-The captain is not above regulations. The corporate regulations literally say that only a few sentences above the warrant bit. They can bypass them for the purposes of a state of emergency, yes, but they cannot order, especially in a code green situation where no crew members are in danger, anyone to violate corporate regulations. A doctor being drunk in the medbay is not a state of emergency. The captain being 'a loyalty implanted head' does not excuse your lack of procedure.

A Captain ordering the arrest of someone they witnessed drunk on duty is not them acting above regulations. They're the Captain of the station, they have full authority. In this context, it would be like saying the HoS couldn't order me to arrest someone they witnessed breaking regulations just because it wasn't an emergency.

 

-The exception for witnessing a crime is intended to allow officers to act in defense of the crew if someone is endangering them. The charge of 'hooliganism' is already very nebulous. Arresting someone for being drunk is literally something they cover in the hooliganism charge description, and it mostly comes down to 'don't bother really unless they are being disruptive or belligerent'. So claiming you 'saw a crime in progress' when you arrived on account of 'he was visibly drunk' is pretty laughable.

This was never claimed, so I'm not sure where you're getting this. As you can see from logs, I asked him if he'd been drinking and he responded in the affirmative. While it may not be necessary or efficient to arrest every surgeon that gets drunk in the bar, it certainly is within the Captain's scope.

 

-The process of obtaining a warrant is not an ordeal. There was absolutely nothing stopping security from spending a few extra minutes performing the necessary regulatory procedures before heading to the medbay to arrest the doctor. Instead, Matthews just beelined straight for the medbay and arrested the doctor without bothering to even ask to enter. Without a warrant in this situation, he could even reasonably have been charged with trespassing.

I feel silly nitpicking your use of words, but you're implying this was a lot worse than it really was. As you can see from logs I actually didn't respond to the call at first - I wasn't paying attention. When I did see the call for an officer, I took the time to link up with a cadet, go by the captain, and then walk over to the medbay and talk to them before entering. Only when they proved belligerent and uncooperative did I stop being courteous to them.

 

I don't know you, ShameOnTurtles, but you were a source of frustration for the both the captain and me during that round. Your hyper-aggressiveness, while it might have been 'technically allowed' on account of the miner had some kind of dangerous weapon (I never heard what it was? A mining laser? Don't know, largely irrelevant for the purposes of this) repeatedly caused the situation to be exacerbated. I told you after the first time I heard you had fired first on the clearly scared, armed civilian that you needed to exercise more restraint and not jump to lethal force. And then, only ten minutes or so later, I am witness to a radio conversation that roughly went like this (I do not have the exact logs)

Moyers: I want to talk

Officer: We're not going to shoot.

*10 seconds later*

Moyers: *screaming about being shot by Matthews*

A dangerous weapon is "largely irrelevant"? What? It was a deadly laser stolen from the Captain's office which, as I've shown in logs, was said many times over security. I don't fault you for not noticing it - there was a lot of text flying by and I don't have access to as many channels as you - but still, that's an incredibly relevant piece of information to the situation.

I feel like a broken record here. As I have shown in logs, I did not immediately jump to shooting him. Both the officer and I aimed first, and due to reflex shooting of him talking on the radio right after and us shooting, he ended up aiming a lethal weapon at an officer. I shot at him at that point, instead of the alternative, which would have meant dropping my weapon and hoping for his mercy - something which would have been ridiculously irresponsible as a security officer.

Logs for my second encounter with Moyers:

 

[security] LEGATUS states, "Crewmember Moyers is set to arrest, requesting confirmation."

[security] Gavin Matthews says, "Confirmed."

Gavin Matthews says, "Confirmed."

Paige Bennett was unbuckled by Richard Volvalaad!

[security] Tazhir Kra'xis says, "Definitely arressst them."

So far you wanted us to arrest someone with a lethal weapon who'd shown he was willing to use it, without lethals ourselves. ICly that's ridiculous, and I honestly thought during the round you were trying to powergame stuns. That may not have been the case, just the impression I was given.

Tazhir Kra'xis talks into the head of security's headset

You are now running on internals from the oxygen tank on your suit.

[security] Tazhir Kra'xis says, "Edwardss."

You put the energy carbine into the security satchel.

You put the hailer into the security satchel.

You pull the cord on the flare, activating it!

[security] Tazhir Kra'xis asks, "Where iss your ID?"

You put the box into the security satchel.

[Common] Marcus Halloway says, "Engineering, we have some broken doors."

You put the energy carbine into the security satchel.

[security] B.U.D.D.Y states, "Moyers is near the conference room."

You enable the mag-pulse traction system.

The Emergency Shutter opens.

[security] B.U.D.D.Y states, "In maint."

LEGATUS had eyes on him and the AI gave an exact location, so I headed over there to assist with the arrest.

[security] Robert Edwards says, "I have it on me sir"

[Common] Jon Jackson asks, "Who does, where?"

You disable the mag-pulse traction system.

You enable the mag-pulse traction system.

[security] Robert Edwards says, "Come to surface, if you want to check my status."

[security] Gavin Matthews says, "Hostile by the conference room."

Gavin Matthews says, "Hostile by the conference room."

This is when I spot him.

[security] Tazhir Kra'xis says, "I am holding an ID that sseemss to be yourss."

You will now aim rather than fire.

The Emergency Shutter closes for LEGATUS.

Gavin Matthews aims the energy carbine at Unknown!

[security] Reuben Wells says, "Don't shoot him"

[security] Robert Edwards asks, "I have mine, are you sure?"

Gavin Matthews shouts, "Drop it!"

I aim at him first, and tell him to drop it. I did not rush in guns blazing as you all seem intent on implying.

Gavin Matthews pulls the trigger reflexively!

You fire the energy carbine!

Gavin Matthews lowers the energy carbine.

You will no longer aim rather than fire.

[security] Caiden Moyers says, "Drop the gun."

Unfortunately, and this is my bad with the aiming mechanics, I forgot to disable the radio trigger. I would note that in this situation were were both in pressurized areas so it was unnecessary anyways, and the fact that he obviously has no intention of surrendering anyways.

Unknown talks into the captain's headset

Unknown is hit by the laser in the chest!

ATTACK: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) shot (/obj/item/projectile/beam) Tylaaar/(Caiden Moyers) (INTENT: HELP) (JMP)

The Emergency Shutter opens for LEGATUS.

Caiden Moyers(as Unknown) exclaims, "ARGHH!"

You fire the energy carbine!

Unknown is hit by the laser in the chest!

ATTACK: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) shot (/obj/item/projectile/beam) Tylaaar/(Caiden Moyers) (INTENT: HELP) (JMP)

You fire the energy carbine!

Unknown is hit by the laser in the chest!

ATTACK: ShameOnTurtles/(Gavin Matthews) shot (/obj/item/projectile/beam) Tylaaar/(Caiden Moyers) (INTENT: HELP) (JMP)

You fire the energy carbine!

The laser misses Unknown narrowly!

You fire the energy carbine!

You fire the energy carbine!

 

 

I deliberately gave you the gun that had a stun setting for a reason. rather than the more deadly lethal-only thing in the armory. I sort of assumed it would be self evident in how I did not give you the big guns. I admit that I could have elaborated more about my desire to capture him without lethal force, but I was pretty clear about my disapproval after you did it the first time.

I assumed that you gave me a gun with two settings so I could adapt to any situation. In this case I used the lethal function because it was appropriate for the situation. As for your disapproval the first time, there's only so much your orders will do for my character when he's in the middle of a lethal situation - especially when you made no effort to get the other officers' or my own side of the first shooting.

 

I only relieved you of your duty on the case after you ignored my orders and did it again. I also note, if it matters, that the captain was riding me to remove you from the Moyers case too, so I wasn't alone in thinking you were being unreasonably violent.

I believe I've adequately described why I wasn't being unreasonably violent, but I do want to note that none of this displeasure was actually communicated to me beyond you reacting to partial understanding of the first shooting which, again, you did nothing from my perspective to investigate.

[Munks]

A Warrant must be provided for almost any search or arrest conducted under code green. Exceptions to this rule exist if an officer is a direct witness to a crime, or may reasonably conclude that failure to act will pose an immediate danger to the crew and/or station.

The officer did not witness. A drunk doctor is not an immediate danger. These are the two and ONLY two caveats to getting around warrants on Code Green listed on the cited wiki page.

Your argument is that the need for warrant is negated because it's the Captain, basically the captain's order didn't break regulations because he isn't subject to regulations because he's the captain.

 

The Captain is not above Corporate Regulations, and can be arrested by Security for breaking it if the Heads of Staff agree in a unanimous decision.

 

Corporate Regulations state a warrant must be provided on code green. Doesn't matter if the Captain ordered it.

 

Notice #15: Captain Authority

This is a reminder that the station's assigned Captain has full authority over the operation of the station. He or she is authorized to shut down departments at their discretion, reassign crew members, issue direct orders to all crew members on the station, and take actions within reason that may violate regulations in non-standard situations.

The Captain is loyalty implanted, and is therefore trusted to act in the best interests of the company, crew, and station he or she is assigned to. Any complaints or concerns over the Captain's decisions should be addressed after their orders have been carried out, and after the situation that prompted those orders has been resolved.

CCIA General Notice 15. In NON STANDARD SITUATIONS Captains can go around corporate regulations, and a drunk doctor doesn't qualify. A warrant was not even requested on your part, which would have been a redeeming factor if you were ordered to do it regardless of warrant -- you simply heard a report that someone was acting up so you ran off to act on it. It was an illegal arrest. I reported to the Head of Security that it was an illegal arrest (which he didn't know about when he decided to demote you). I made a slight, but admittedly noticeable fuckup in merely agreeing with his decision as I was leaving, and I acknowledge that. I stand by my report however. You arrested someone illegally. You told me that you arrested someone illegally yourself in the brig -- it sucks i couldn't bring you in for a full interview for the sake of formality, but you told me what I needed in our brief brig conversation so I continued with my report while you were off doing what you did with the miner. It'd be one thing if my proceeding with our brief conversation as evidence unfairly tainted my finding, but you said yourself, you merely would have reiterated what you already said before. That there was no value to further interview. My decision was justified.

Half of this complaint is apparently based on this mistake on my part, passingly agreeing with the Head of Security as I left his office. I look forward to correcting this mistake in my future activity, and I appreciate the subtlety of this violation and how I can use what I learned here to better my roleplay in the future. The other half, unfortunately, is the fact that I defended myself on the spot against someone who killed the only ISD member aboard the station, with no Command to consult with. I answered for this already.

[Kaed]

I should point out, for the sake of clarity, that Matthews was never actually demoted. I just confiscated his voidsuit and lethal weaponry and told him to gtfo and go do regular officer rounds and to stay off the Moyers case.

The salt here is probably about 90% because I wouldn't let him go chase down the antag anymore.

I will also admit that my previous post is somewhat lacking in crucial context, and that's my fault. I took a long time writing it, and when I was ready to post it, I saw that shameonturtles had posted. It was late, and I was far too tired to do more than tack on a comment at the end directed at him. If I'd had time/inclination to read his entire post, I might have revised some of my post. I'm sorry.

However, I still stand by that you illegally dismissed regulations in arresting that doctor because you felt the captain's orders superseded any attempt to follow protocol. You say he admitted in person to being drunk, but you had to trespass on medical without a warrant to reach him. Hell, if you really wanted to not a warrant, you could have stood outside of medical, and hailed him on comms, and he would admit to being drunk. Then you could have said, "come out here then, you are being charged with neglect of duty", because, woop, he just admitted to his infraction. Maybe he would have even submitted peaceably. Instead you waltzed in like you were dah boss because 'the captain said so'.

[Azande]

Hi. An officer must carry out an order given by their Captain, even if it breaks regulations. The fault for the issue goes to the Captain for issuing such an order, but it is both illegal and against regulations to fail to execute the orders of the individual in command of your facility. The investigation should've been targeted at the Captain rather than the officer - if anything.

A drunk doctor in medical, if noted by the Captain - is neglect of duty. An officer walking in and finding the same thing the Captain did - a drunk doctor, is grounds for arrest on the spot if the Captain says it is neglect of duty.

The Captain's orders are ultimate and final in all alert levels, they are carried out and reported afterwards. I find Luxo to incredibly overreach their boundaries a lot as Internal Affairs, and they are the 'asshole IAA' I was afraid we'd eventually get back similar to Terrance.

[Munks]

I find Luxo to incredibly overreach their boundaries a lot as Internal Affairs, and they are the 'asshole IAA' I was afraid we'd eventually get back similar to Terrance.

Hi. I'd like if you could list some actual examples of this, because from what I can tell I specifically go out of my way to avoid involving myself in ISD and Command affairs during regular station operation (as in, when ISD isn't entirely dead and there is no command) and you in particular I notice involving with Command and Sec a lot, for example the very first time I saw your IAA you marched into a crime scene, past Security tape, and demanded that the scene be opened up because you personally didn't believe that there was anything worth investigating; and resorting to "respect my IA authority" when I asked you to let ISD handle ISD affairs. This is par for the course for you, and it's not limited to IAA -- if you are who I think you are, you faxed CCIA over being asked over comms by me and a Head of Security to securely store your uniform items in your locker versus dumping it in the hallway. I don't think you're really in a place to pass judgement particularly because we have not interacted to my knowledge outside of two specific instances of me taking issue with poor conduct on your part, because you're even more involved in station command than I am on a regular basis, and because despite you being guilty of the exact things you accuse me of (you bought a gun from a merchant as IAA and joined a station militia to repel hostiles despite ISD still being active very recently) and despite us having very little IC interaction or involvement you're still trying to weigh in just because you're OPs friend.

Just because the Captain calls out someone breaking violations doesn't mean Security can just run in and grab them and threaten them with additional charges for asking for a warrant on code green. I don't know why you think that Captains, on Code Green, can just ignore regulations. As a Security Officer you need to make some attempt, at the very least, to obtain a warrant, and if the Captain specifically refuses it then you should raise the issue afterwards. The problem is that the Security Officer was absolutely willing to take advantage and break regulation and simply use the Captain as a cover, he didn't get a warrant, he didn't try to get a warrant, and he didn't want a warrant despite the fact that he was searching a department for somebody and arresting that person on code green. I don't see any value in enabling gameplay like this, nor Security Officers threatening bogus charges to shut people up when they are called out on their regulation breaking behavior.

It seems really like the bulk of interest in this complaint is simply an IA investigation where I concluded a single charge of "illegal arrest" was in order for a warrant-less Code Green arrest and recommended such to relevant head of staff which is an IC issue. If so I'd like if we could just get a head admin in to get this over with because I stand by my investigation and its findings, as well as the fact that I defended myself against a hostile and lethally armed antagonist.

[Kaed]

Hi. An officer must carry out an order given by their Captain, even if it breaks regulations. The fault for the issue goes to the Captain for issuing such an order, but it is both illegal and against regulations to fail to execute the orders of the individual in command of your facility. The investigation should've been targeted at the Captain rather than the officer - if anything.

A drunk doctor in medical, if noted by the Captain - is neglect of duty. An officer walking in and finding the same thing the Captain did - a drunk doctor, is grounds for arrest on the spot if the Captain says it is neglect of duty.

The Captain's orders are ultimate and final in all alert levels, they are carried out and reported afterwards. I find Luxo to incredibly overreach their boundaries a lot as Internal Affairs, and they are the 'asshole IAA' I was afraid we'd eventually get back similar to Terrance.

 

No.

The captain did not violate protocol.

He ordered the arrest of an individual. He said 'arrest this drunk doctor'.

He never told the officer to not get a warrant.

Even in this fantasy you have created where captains can violate regulations at any time and people are expected to comply and worry about it later ("Kill that bartender, I don't like the way he spoke to me" "Okay, captain." *summarily executes bartender, dutifully reports it to IAA*), rather than it only being valid for critical situations . He never did anything except advise security of a neglect of duty charge and to get on it.

It was on the Officer Matthews to assume that meant 'right now, who cares about regulations, because the captain said to arrest someone.'

The problem is on Matthews. He needs to deal with his own poor decision-making, rather that everyone trying to divert blame every other which way except on him.

[Ornias]

I call this "The Great Bait Post", a collection of all the attempts to derail, discredit, demean, lie, or misconstrue information about the complaint. Bolded messages are completely untrue. Italics are misrepresentations. Everything else is just insults or bait.

What offended me during your conversation with me in the byond pager was that you took me distancing myself from your case and allowing you to investigate and conclude whatever you see fit to conclude as "conduct unbecoming an Internal Affairs Agent".

I believed, now regrettably, that you were perfectly capable of handling your own investigation.

She was killed because she stopped to try to talk to you, and you threw a shortened-detonation grenade at her feet while she was preoccupied talking.

You did not try to talk to me. You took out a grenade and immediately moved towards me.

but now that I know its the antag in question simply upset over being killed after having wiped the only ISD officer I do not regret my decision to block you because you weren't getting it and I don't think you will.

Half of this complaint is apparently based on this mistake on my part, passingly agreeing with the Head of Security as I left his office. I look forward to correcting this mistake in my future activity, and I appreciate the subtlety of this violation and how I can use what I learned here to better my roleplay in the future. The other half, unfortunately, is the fact that I defended myself on the spot against someone who killed the only ISD member aboard the station, with no Command to consult with. I answered for this already.

Listen, bucko. You came into the round a considerable amount of time after much of the stuff happened, so I'm willing to acknowledge that most of what you got was hearsay. But don't make the mistake of thinking that Khazarazir somehow unfairly colored my perception of poor innocent Matthews by filing his report.

I was also willing to assume that you were just roleplaying a robot IAA with your irritating tendency to try and skate by on the most vague regulatory technicalities to excuse Matthews actions, but you clearly are here, OOC, defending those same views.

So let's get started here on the pile of muck you've drudged up here.

The salt here is probably about 90% because I wouldn't let him go chase down the antag anymore.

Instead you waltzed in like you were dah boss because 'the captain said so'.

because you're OPs friend.

I don't know why you think that Captains, on Code Green, can just ignore regulations.

nor Security Officers threatening bogus charges to shut people up when they are called out on their regulation breaking behavior.

It seems really like the bulk of interest in this complaint is simply an IA investigation where I concluded a single charge of "illegal arrest" was in order for a warrant-less Code Green arrest and recommended such to relevant head of staff which is an IC issue. If so I'd like if we could just get a head admin in to get this over with because I stand by my investigation and its findings, as well as the fact that I defended myself against a hostile and lethally armed antagonist.

Even in this fantasy you have created where captains can violate regulations at any time and people are expected to comply and worry about it later ("Kill that bartender, I don't like the way he spoke to me" "Okay, captain." *summarily executes bartender, dutifully reports it to IAA*),

It was on the Officer Matthews to assume that meant 'right now, who cares about regulations, because the captain said to arrest someone.'

The problem is on Matthews. He needs to deal with his own poor decision-making, rather that everyone trying to divert blame every other which way except on him.

 

You're incredibly persistent on trying to misrepresent this as me trying to get you in trouble because I don't like you for whatever reason. If this was the case, I wouldn't have politely messaged you beforehand to try to bring this matters to you on a private channel.

Please, take the time to read my complaint and see what my actual issue with your playstyle is - the fact that it gives off a strong impression of playing to win, be it in trying to prove you're right in an investigation or trying to take down an antag as an IAA.

[Azande]

Hi. An officer must carry out an order given by their Captain, even if it breaks regulations. The fault for the issue goes to the Captain for issuing such an order, but it is both illegal and against regulations to fail to execute the orders of the individual in command of your facility. The investigation should've been targeted at the Captain rather than the officer - if anything.

A drunk doctor in medical, if noted by the Captain - is neglect of duty. An officer walking in and finding the same thing the Captain did - a drunk doctor, is grounds for arrest on the spot if the Captain says it is neglect of duty.

The Captain's orders are ultimate and final in all alert levels, they are carried out and reported afterwards. I find Luxo to incredibly overreach their boundaries a lot as Internal Affairs, and they are the 'asshole IAA' I was afraid we'd eventually get back similar to Terrance.

 

No.

The captain did not violate protocol.

He ordered the arrest of an individual. He said 'arrest this drunk doctor'.

He never told the officer to not get a warrant.

Even in this fantasy you have created where captains can violate regulations at any time and people are expected to comply and worry about it later ("Kill that bartender, I don't like the way he spoke to me" "Okay, captain." *summarily executes bartender, dutifully reports it to IAA*), rather than it only being valid for critical situations . He never did anything except advise security of a neglect of duty charge and to get on it.

It was on the Officer Matthews to assume that meant 'right now, who cares about regulations, because the captain said to arrest someone.'

The problem is on Matthews. He needs to deal with his own poor decision-making, rather that everyone trying to divert blame every other which way except on him.

 

CCIA's expectations are that you carry out orders given to you by the Captain, even if they are questionable, and you report them afterwards. Please refer to CCIA Notices about the Captain's authority.

[Scheveningen]

Xander's correct on that, the captain remains to be the ultimate authority on the station until a figure from Central Command boards the station. This includes ERT, who take operational control for the duration of the emergency, as an irrelevant example.

 

Even in this fantasy you have created where captains can violate regulations at any time and people are expected to comply and worry about it later ("Kill that bartender, I don't like the way he spoke to me" "Okay, captain." *summarily executes bartender, dutifully reports it to IAA*), rather than it only being valid for critical situations . He never did anything except advise security of a neglect of duty charge and to get on it.

 

Unless the captain is ordering you to commit a medium-level/high-level severity infraction explicitly-speaking, there is zero reason to be disobeying an order from the captain. If you do disobey because it violates a serious regulation, that's fine, but you can still be punished for disobeying orders in the short term until someone comes around to review the situation and punish the captain for breaking regulations and abusing their authority.

It is not ideal for an IAA to suggest mutiny is a good option. Wanting to arrest a command staff member without going through the appropriate approval channels of Central Command is mutiny.

 

This is a complaint against the general playstyle of Luxo Khazarazir as an Internal Affairs Agent. Originally I tried to bring this to the players attention over the Byond pager, but they disagreed with my criticism and blocked me, so I thought it would be best to bring it here.

 

This is extremely childish to be doing. If the admins wish to be seeking to inflict consequences for what happened in this situation, this is a very good reason to be doing so. Regardless of whether you like a person's opinion or not, blocking someone who is attempting to seek common ground with you and gather context for what happened is a gross example of someone being unable to hear any other opinion than their own. Considering Munks' past reputation as a toxic player with a multitude of instances of bad security play, I would say I'm surprised nothing has changed, but I'm really not. Munks' responses and tone in this thread is more reminiscent of an angsty teenager rather than the reasonable adult he's supposed to be or at least act like. His friend Kaedwuff has made matters worse by adopting the same childish accusatory tone with snark-laden vocabulary choice, also fulfilling the same conditions that one would consider baiting or trolling.

You both should probably get the stick out of your bum for a second and maybe consider that it is not about being right or wrong but morein considering what you could be doing better, because I'm pretty sure that's all anyone cares about here. Improvement of playstyles to make future situations better.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Guest

[Munks]

The situation involved is a medium-level infraction. And in this case as far as I'm aware the Captain reported an incident, there was no reason for ISD to make no effort whatsoever to get a warrant. I don't know where the "IAA suggesting mutiny" thing is coming from considering at no point did I even consider, or raise the subject of having a Head arrested. I blocked the byond conversation because it went in circles just about as much as this very thread is going, if you don't know what you're talking about and have no context for any of this I don't know why you're involved.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Guest

[Faris]

I've handed this complaint to the command whitelist team. [mention]Alberyk[/mention][mention]Coalf[/mention][mention]Datamatt[/mention]

[Scheveningen]

Mutiny is also considered disobeying an order to the point where the disobedience is subversive of any form of discipline, impeding the performance of command staff by intentionally being uncooperative also may fall under this.

 

Munks wrote: ↑

Yesterday, 01:16

What offended me during your conversation with me in the byond pager was that you took me distancing myself from your case and allowing you to investigate and conclude whatever you see fit to conclude as "conduct unbecoming an Internal Affairs Agent".

 

This is also amazing, because it displays that you apparently got offended by a statement that would barely constitute as remotely insulting. And you blocked someone for this, lol. Your hubris seems to be overwhelming indeed if you take offense to such small statements as these. I did not think you would be the individual to act as fragile as this over very mild criticism.

 

I blocked the byond conversation because it went in circles just about as much as this very thread is going, if you don't know what you're talking about and have no context for any of this I don't know why you're involved.

 

No, you blocked the byond conversation because you got insulted by the otherwise harmless and appropriate statement of "conduct unbecoming of an IAA", which you literally said was why you got offended. You should also take a moment to scroll up the page to see the subforum rules and perhaps also recall that involvement is only required in regards to staff complaints.

Garnascus has said before that he rarely invokes that rule to begin with because it is very rare that I bring something up in a complaint that holds zero substance. Of course, knowing you and your behavior displayed in this thread, it's very rare that you intentionally go out of your way to find value in criticisms of you considering how you blocked someone for saying you displayed conduct unbecoming of an IAA, a statement that should barely graze your ego yet somehow dealt enough of a blow that you needed to block all communications from that player.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Guest

[Munks]

You bringing up mutiny still makes no sense. Holding a Captain to corporate regulations is not mutiny. It's literally what IA exists for. As I already explained, my offense was the fact that I attempted to do a favor by allowing someone to have his own separate investigation and he turned it into an accusation of being a poor IA player because I wasn't doing my part to investigate. Do you have anything actually worthwhile to complain about here or are you just interested in being caustic as usual and cherrypicking out-of-context quotes that have already been covered plenty?

 

yet somehow dealt enough of a blow that you needed to block all communications from that player.

Are you going to read my posts yet?

[Scheveningen]

Why didn't you report it to CCIAA rather than raising a conniption about it?

Further, what's the excuse of these two decisions?

 

I got her to back off, which she was a rather good sport about interaction-wise, before Luxo Khazarazir ordered her to shoot the fuel tank right next to me. The issue with this is twofold: one, an internal affairs agent has no place in ordering security to do anything, least of all kill someone. Two, his decision was made immediately after I was declared hostile, which was intended to immediately take me out of the round.

Later in the round, after having survived that first incident, I was in the brig attempting to set up defenses to recover from being blown up earlier. At this point, Luxo Khazarazir charges in with an e-sword and a chemical sprayer full of plant-be-gone. I start to speak to him, when he shoots me with it several times, and runs off. This, of course, kills me very quickly, with no interaction whatsoever. I ahelped this, and he was spoken to, but it's quite clear from our interactions over the pager that he got away with it and that he doesn't consider what he did to be wrong ("I was asked by staff about it and they understood my side on it and that's all I care about").

 

Are you trying to play IAA like IAA is intended to be played, or are you playing IAA just to pretend that you have any authority over security?

Just because IAA requires a command whitelist doesn't make you command. You are an oversight official that should report any infractions.

[Munks]

Why didn't you report it to CCIAA rather than raising a conniption about it?

Are you asking me why I reported misconduct on the part of an officer to his relevant department head, rather than going straight to CCIA?

Are you trying to play IAA like IAA is intended to be played, or are you playing IAA just to pretend that you have any authority over security?

Is advising the entire ISD department (which is one single officer at the time) taking authority over Security? If so I think the wiki needs revision.

You are an oversight official that should report any infractions.

I should fall back and report to the deceased officer who this person had killed and was the only member of ISD at the time?

You're not reading, and this is going in circles.

[Scheveningen]

I am reading. You are being obtuse on purpose. Good day.

[Faris]

Do not use ad hominem. This means do not attack a person's character (character in this case meaning the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual). You are expected to argue the presented ideas, not the person. If someone were to attack you, don’t take matters into your own hands, report it to us.

 

This rule is fairly simple and straight forward. You may refute the arguments presented against you, you may point out that a certain individual is not properly engaging with you here. You may not attack a person. You may not insult a person.

Any further instances from after this will result in a warning or even a forum ban depending on active warnings from the past. You will have no one but yourself to blame if your ability to post here is suddenly gone for a period of time.

This goes to everyone that broke said rule.

[Azande]

In response to Munks.

1. I did not buy a weapon to join a militia, I bought a weapon to have cute little RP with a few other characters on board - as Christine has a strong desire to fit in with her colleagues and literally everyone else was buying a weapon at that time. I discharged it once while talking to a security officer to emulate the fact that Christine barely knows what a trigger is. As well, the purchase was authorized by the HoS.

2. I entered a crime scene just as it had finished being inspected. There was no evidence to support that it was a crime scene, there was no blood or damage to the area. Remember, security is only allowed to seal off areas on their own authority if there is a legitimate crime scene, I had every right to take a step in and gander at the area, and I then reported to the Captain there appeared to be no reason for the cordoning that he knew of - and then the CSI went insane megatraitorass so it didnt matter anyways.

3. You were very disrespectful to a Captain, it is not your place to make snide remarks in front of an entire department of people towards the highest authority on board. The hat is not part of a secure uniform, its a leftover trinket of code thats remain untouched for ages.

Internal Affairs has no business trying to boss around how Command staff dress themselves, let alone what the captain decides to do with her clothing. Yes, I faxed Central Command, I had zero desire at all to interact with your character further and that should speak volumes about the kind of agent you’ve made them - the responding CCIA also agreed with me fully.

And finally, Internal Affairs should NOT BE SOMEONE YOU HATE. This is such an old belief that needs to die - You are not here to shit on everyone, you are not here to criticize everyone on everything. You NEED to be someone crew are comfortable approaching to report shit, and you NEED to have a good relationship with characters (and their players) if you want info from them when the time comes to launch an investigation.

From what I’ve seen - most of your work revolves angering Command Staff and hunting antags with lethals in code red - rather than actually focusing on handling reports and issues in round.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The Captain is not above regulations, but you cannot refuse an order from the Captain. Captain's orders have to be carried out ASAP, even if you disagree with them or think they might be illegal.

Captain orders you to do something.

You do it.

After you execute the order, THEN you start looking into if it was problematic or not. Captain's have to answer for everything they do in these situations but it is retoactively.

Captains are not above regulations. They have to answer for whatever they ordered after it was done. AFTER it was done. Captain's are loyalty implanted and you have to assume they have a reason for what they are doing. You gotta do it or resign as in Failure to Execute an Order. Captains have to be retoactively spanked, which is really hard to swallow for people. Ordering an arrest on code green by the cap has to be followed and it will fall on the Cap to explain to IA or CCIA why they did it and why it deserved to not have a warrant.

If the Cap said "get a warrant" then the order was not executed properly and that's when the blame falls from the cap to whoever did the arrest.

idk about the rest of the stuff but that's been the precedent and reg procedures for this sort of thing for awhile now. There are specific clauses for skipping warrants on code green but they just cover search warrants for departments and employees. This will probably be a lot easier to handle if we have it encompass arrest warrants too.

IAA telling command how to dress is crazy but I'm biased because my HoP wears blue jeans and a tank top to show his solidarity with the working class.