[Resolved] Plahunters staff complaint against Alberyk

[Theplahunter]

BYOND Key: Sovietcyanide

Staff BYOND Key: Alberyk

Game ID: I cannot recall at the moment, I did not think to note it down, apologies.

Reason for complaint: Permabanned for harassment, while I do not think Alberyk did this with malicious intent, and I think it was more of a case of miscommunication, I do still think my permaban is unfair. For reports that my 'behavior has not changed' and I have 'continued to harass people' I am 100% sure that the people I have supposedly harassed in Alberyks eyes (during the Burger report -and- the player complaint against me) will be willing to say that they did not see it as harassment and did not believe it was harassment. I am a bit upset that Alberyk has decided to take judgement of what does or does not constitute harassment of players into his own hands. Although I did tease and taunt Burger, and he was annoyed, the main reason of my last ban was harassment via toxicity and repeatedly insulting people in a malicious manner. I did not intend to be malicious or harm anybody, it was only harmless banter and teasing IMO.

As for any accusations where I have been joining as mouse and specifically harassing people, I joined as mouse before I knew Marwani was chef. I do as mouse go to find food, and there usually is food in the kitchen. So I ate there, as a mouse looking for food would do. I do admit I do partake in a bit of mouse RP with people, but as a rodent I don't really see a problem of hunting food and wandering around. I assumed that rule was more pointed towards maintenance drones.

Evidence/logs/etc: [mention]HunterRS[/mention][mention]LiliumArgentium[/mention][mention]BurgerBB[/mention]

 

 

Additional remarks: I have no desire to see alb punished for this, this was most likely a misunderstanding and I don't hold it against him. I only desire to be unpermabanned as I feel the punishment was harsh and the full story wasn't there. He mistook my banter with Burger as harassment, and yes Burger did find it annoying and I apologize to him for being rude, but I had no intention of any harassment with anybody (and nobody said they felt harassed) and I do not believe I broke the condition of my last unban.

EDIT - Can I also get logs of the ahelp conversation between me and Alberyk, please?

Edited April 12, 2018 by Guest

[BurgerBB]

Holy hecking heck.

Let me just clarify some things because this is getting out of control for absolutely no reason at all. I told Theplahunter to make a ban appeal SEVERAL TIMES, not a stupid admin complaint that will do nothing at all. The admins did nothing wrong here, and I refuse to take part in this admin complaint nonsense for reasons stated.

[Garnascus]

Holy hecking heck.

Let me just clarify some things because this is getting out of control for absolutely no reason at all. I told Theplahunter to make a ban appeal SEVERAL TIMES, not a stupid admin complaint that will do nothing at all. The admins did nothing wrong here, and I refuse to take part in this admin complaint nonsense for reasons stated.

 

Plahunter wishes to contest the decision made by alberyk so a staff complaint is appropriate here. I will get alb to post and then see what can be done.

[Alberyk]

We must take in consideration the situationy you are in, you were unbanned, after being permabanned twice by similar behavior:

 

Disrespect to staff over a minor issue. This, combined with other things has brought about a permanant ban from the server

 

This is an automatic ban for attempted bandodging. The original ban reason: (MANUAL BAN) Breaking unban parole period by calling players 'cunt' in Looc.

 

Now, you were unbanned under the following conditions:

 

PERMABAN (#3800) lifted. Reason for unban: I M P O R T A N T: Lifted as per appeal for shenanigans done 2.5 years ago. Hopefully the he's matured. If he ends up harassing and metagrudging people again, please permaban from the whole of the community and do not provide an opportunity to appeal. As that'd be proof of the fact that he is, in fact, never going to fix himself..

 

Then, you were given another chance, however if this was your first issue you had with someone, I would not apply this ban, but, we have this complaint: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=10807

Which is pretty much the same situation that result in your past permabans, you were given a warning, not even a ban, another chance. However, you joined as mouse and started to mess with the chef, which later ahelped you on deadchat when you were saying things like the following to them:

 

DEAD: SovietCyanide (mouse (713)) laments, "marwani"

DEAD: SovietCyanide (mouse (713)) whines, "how many knives"

DEAD: SovietCyanide (mouse (713)) blubbers, "did you throw"

DEAD: SovietCyanide (mouse (713)) blubbers, "marwani did you appriciate my mice 'grief'"

 

The chef ahelped, and calion told you to stop:

Calion12 to SovietCyanide (JOIN) (CLOSE): burger says you're harassing in deadchat/LOOC. Just chill.

 

However, you went on discord and started this with them:

 

 

Which was pretty much going after someone after they ahelped you. Now, I did not ban you over this, but, as you see in the reason you were unbanned, it clearly states you were given this final chance because we did believe you changed, but, when I look at the complaint, some of your behavior on discord, what happened with bsa's ban, and then, you going after someone after they ahelped you, I can only believe you did not change, and you are still going on harassing people, that is why I applied this permaban.

[Theplahunter]

You are indeed missing the context to the deadchat comments. Marwani had thrown about 12 knives at me, and I was asking as a legitimate question. And Burger had also said in LOOC earlier I was 'mouse griefing him' and it was a play off that, which indeed went too far.

My intention was not to go after Burger over it, but to discuss with him civilly over it. I do admit using the term 'fucking' was a -very- poor choice of words and it was definitely seen as hostile, which was bad form. But I was annoyed due to the fact Burger was not willing to discuss it with me and ask me to stop beforehand, there was no communication to discontinue - It was escalated straight to ahelps and I would like to see myself as a more reasonable person who he could talk to and ask to stop instead of trying to get me in trouble.

And in regards to the complaint, I did not specifically target either of them. The condition on the forums was stated if I was specifically targetting people to maliciously harm them, and I was not. It was banter, and both Hunter and Lilium can confirm I did not target them and that complaint was requested to be dismissed by Hunter. So it should not be applicable if the person attempting that complaint dismissed it after he thought it over and decided he had overreacted (I am paraphrasing him, so do not take my words as his exact words until he and Lilium post on this complaint themselves.)

Also if you are referencing my warning from Doc, I was told by [mention]Zelmana[/mention][mention]ReadThisNamePlz[/mention] and [mention]Sharp[/mention] (although abo was not paying attention much in his words, due to it being so minor) that previous warning over my mouse behavior was too far and would be disregarded so I do not believe it is applicable in this case.

I also do not see how it is bothering a chef where there is plenty of food as a mouse is an issue, as I was only eating food there as a mouse should do if they are hungry.

And I don't see what happened with BSAs ban being exactly relevant, I did not harass or directly target anyone in that. But it does seem like you are referring to me posting that log, I don't see how that is harassment either.

[Alberyk]

And in regards to the complaint, I did not specifically target either of them. The condition on the forums was stated if I was specifically targetting people to maliciously harm them, and I was not. It was banter, and both Hunter and Lilium can confirm I did not target them and that complaint was requested to be dismissed by Hunter. So it should not be applicable if the person attempting that complaint dismissed it after he thought it over and decided he had overreacted (I am paraphrasing him, so do not take my words as his exact words until he and Lilium post on this complaint themselves.)

 

You were already warned, on the top of the two permabans, about this kind of behavior in the complaint:

 

Yes, this is all effectively a slap on the wrist, but it is a warning and further incidents of misconduct, toxicity and rule violations will be escalated harshly. Deeming this resolved. Unless further information comes to light, this will be locked and archived in 24 hours.

 

Also if you are referencing my warning from Doc, I was told by @Zelmana @ReadThisNamePlz and @Sharp (although abo was not paying attention much in his words, due to it being so minor) that previous warning over my mouse behavior was too far and would be disregarded so I do not believe it is applicable in this case.

I also do not see how it is bothering a chef where there is plenty of food as a mouse is an issue, as I was only eating food there as a mouse should do if they are hungry.

 

Nowhere I said I did take said warning in consideration to ban you.

 

And I don't see what happened with BSAs ban being exactly relevant, I did not harass or directly target anyone in that. But it does seem like you are referring to me posting that log, I don't see how that is harassment either.

 

You did start a fight among people at the time, which resulted in this decision by staff in a staff complaint:

 

Them revealing administrative PM's about the nature of BSA's stance and pressing an issue they're asked not to. Inflaming the people on discord at the time and causing a mess. What was revealed to Soviet was revealed as a courtesy due to their adminhelp, other members of the community are entitled to ask about the outcome of their ahelps and we sometimes oblige depending on the circumstance. Due to this, I'm applying a warning. That being said, people witnessing the round informed me that Soviet did not follow BSA for the whole time, so hardly looking for errors. Yes he ahelped it but he wasn't the first to report it to us.

[Garnascus]

The goal here with regards to administrative action is identifying problematic patterns of behavior and taking steps to correct them. verbal warnings, explicit warnings, temp bans and permanent bans are various tools we have in our magical bag. There is no one size fits all and every situation must be examined on its own to determine appropriate punishment. What i think can be clearly established here is a very consistent pattern of problematic behavior with you. Lets fast forward a bit to the player complaint adressed against you. I have an issue with your defence of it here.

 

And in regards to the complaint, I did not specifically target either of them. The condition on the forums was stated if I was specifically targetting people to maliciously harm them, and I was not. It was banter, and both Hunter and Lilium can confirm I did not target them and that complaint was requested to be dismissed by Hunter. So it should not be applicable if the person attempting that complaint dismissed it after he thought it over and decided he had overreacted (I am paraphrasing him, so do not take my words as his exact words until he and Lilium post on this complaint themselves.)

 

I feel you are missing the point here. Several criticisms of your behavior where brought up against you and others in that complaint. Abosh had this to say as a closing statement on the complaint.

 

Yes, this is all effectively a slap on the wrist, but it is a warning and further incidents of misconduct, toxicity and rule violations will be escalated harshly. Deeming this resolved. Unless further information comes to light, this will be locked and archived in 24 hours.

 

" i did not specifically target either of them " is not relevant here. that burger's ahelp and this complaint are not exactly the same are also not relevant. The grand issue here is problems with your behavior and a consistent pattern.

We then arrive to the issue of burger's ahelp. The screenshot can be a little confusing to read as it details two seperate events. The first one is not being considered here. What is important here is that staff determined your behavior in game to be a problem. They, specifically calion12 told you cease. Much as i loathe to pull out the "I AM THE LAW" card you are expected to cease and drop it when a staff member tells you to. You instead decided to continue it and you sent burger a message about it.

While it is true we almost never moderate just based off private PMs between people it is not unreasonable for me to conclude this was the straw that broke the camels back. The warning placed on you as a result of the whole BSA situation is also relevant here. Namely sharing private logs over the public discord. You seem to have this unnatural tendency to furiously go to discord anytime you're slighted.

What are your thoughts on that?

[Theplahunter]

So, I do have a question considering part of my punishment is because there was a complaint about my discord PMs.

Alb there was one time I sent you a complaint about Hackie sending me porn over discord PMs,

 

 

Although you did not specifically 'no it is not your problem' it was an issue reported to you, that you did not follow up on or deal with in relation to someone sending me unrequested futa furry porn and you seemingly did not care about it.

What makes this case with burger different, when it is a PM that is not even outright hostile (yes I did use the word fuck but not in hostile intention) intending to talk to someone about ahelps without talking to me about how annoyed he felt and instead getting me in trouble.

Also is Schevs mentioned point (Although I do not approve of Schev butting in and acting as staff, but he does bring about a few fair points) my behavior was extreme toxicity and targetting people via threatening and toxic harassment or metagrudging, which was not the case. I did not threaten Burger, I did not specifically target burger, so it should have no weight on my 'prior instances'.

Also in regards to sharing the 'private logs' during the whole BSA incident, I was in the wrong yes but that was also not harassment or extreme toxic behavior. And there are indeed other people who have done the same thing and have had no punishments provided. The private logs were also an in server incident and an admin help shared due to BSAs powergame at the time. This was not private discord PMs that are not in the communities bounds, there are no specific rules in the discord or in the server about PMing people in private over discord. Actually I have been told to take issues with other people -TO- pms in discord, which I did. So is it now the case where I cannot take my issues anywhere? If Burger was feeling truly harassed could he tell me to stop or block me? Yes, did he do either of those things? No.

"DEAD: SovietCyanide (mouse (713)) laments, "marwani"

DEAD: SovietCyanide (mouse (713)) whines, "how many knives"

DEAD: SovietCyanide (mouse (713)) blubbers, "did you throw"

DEAD: SovietCyanide (mouse (713)) blubbers, "marwani did you appriciate my mice 'grief'""

I asked marwani how many knives were thrown because Marwani -was throwing knives at me-. And I was asking how many, not taunting or harassing burger about it. I was also replying to Burgers statement in LOOC saying he was being mouse griefed, making a joke of it and light of the situation. Neither are harassment or meant to taunt Burger.

I also don't see how teasing people over something I found funny to make light of it is 'consistent behavior' and a showing of how I was in 2016.

[Alberyk]

So, I do have a question considering part of my punishment is because there was a complaint about my discord PMs.

Alb there was one time I sent you a complaint about Hackie sending me porn over discord PMs,

 

 

Although you did not specifically 'no it is not your problem' it was an issue reported to you, that you did not follow up on or deal with in relation to someone sending me unrequested futa furry porn and you seemingly did not care about it.

 

When you messaged me about this, I was inside a train station heading to my classes, I could not really stop and handle that, so I told you I could not handle it at the time, not that I did not care or did not want. I did not have time to deal with this because I had my own obligations, so I am sorry for that, but that did not stop you from bringing it to other staff members.

[LiliumArgentium]

I honestly don't think I should post here, but I'd just like to clarify that I did in fact make up with [mention]Theplahunter[/mention] in voice chat. I really don't hold a grudge long, and am mostly over the "harassment", which though he DID go too far, I will admit I probably did overreact, and bear no ill will. That's pretty well all I can add at my current state of tired.

[Garnascus]

This decision is going to be very easy for me if you just keep deflecting instead of owning your shit plahunter.

[Theplahunter]

I am not denying that I did not go too far in my banter, and it was rude to not be considerate of his feelings. I am only contesting the major punishment in the form of a perma, and the accusation I have gone to my old ways. I am not looking to avoid entire punishment, I would accept a week or even month ban, I just think Perma is too harsh. I did not break the condition of my last appeal, I only joked around with burger and went too far.

I apologize to burger for offending him, it was not my intention.

I am not deflecting though, I'm just explaining that I disagree with the perma and I think it was too harsh of a punishment.

[Garnascus]

Well i am sorry but i do not disagree with alb's ban. Especially after you just shared logs between you and someone else in public the second it was convenient for you. I do not enjoy telling someone that they cannot play here but is the unfortunate position i find myself in. This will of course have to be coupled with a discord ban.

[ReynTheLord]

Alright, I have to do some stepping in for a friend here, so apologies to the staff... anyways, Garn, If you want to uphold your decision, you're the head admin, and it's in your right to do so. However, I do think this is a bit extreme. He doesn't seem to have malicious intent, heck, he's a nice guy usually. Please reconsider this. Please?

[Garnascus]

Locking and archiving