[Resolved] Admin Abuse and other boogaloo.

BYOND Key: Yacobpo157

Staff BYOND Key: shameonturtles & Alberyk

Game ID: bPB-ahWj or an i I can't tell.

Reason for complaint:

During the round, wiz+space ninja, the space ninja stole a laser rifle from the armory as well as the captain's ID, me being the only security at all, a security officer, I asked them nicely to give it back, they refused, I attempted to use non-lethals, and they weren't phased. I then attempted to use lethal weapons, and they weren't phased. Because of this, I elected the help of the friendly weird guy dressed in blue (wizard) to help me. The guy uses a staff of change, I then use this opportunity to secure the advanced looking hostile's hardsuit and stolen items, at which they salt in LOOC and ahelp. I leave with the items, and apparently the wizard it talked to by admins and asks us ICly because of this to give the gear back. I rationalize that since the hardsuit guy would just these tools to harm others and/or steal from the station, I say no, wizard understands, and leaves after the new Warden ignores me informing him how helpful the visitor was and attempted to arrest him. At first he asks me in LOOC to pause so he can speak to staff, I do, and he just waltzes off, and I interpreted that as staff telling him to since he didn't say a word. I find him later, and speak to the man telling him I'm about to arrest him, I ahelp to make sure I can when Alberyk says he is handling it, guess we have different understandings of that word.

Later on, in the armory putting the laser rifle back and the hardsuit in a secure locker after using the captain's ID to add some security access to my ID to better deal with any new threats that may arise, learning my lesson, when the space ninja magically has his hardsuit back, spawned in by an admin, and the wizard also teleports in. I curse both of them out, and salt in LOOC the same way the space ninja did, when I am then muted, so I ahelp the issue after arguing with staff in LOOC which helped to earn/warrant my OOC muting. Alberyk then says he has the final decision on all things, and wanted to give the space a ninja a second chance, ignoring the IC occurrences and the hard work of other players and how the SM already blew, there were no heads on, and the crew were lucky to have defeated the space ninja, and disregarded any form of fair play and gave the antag an unfair advantage. Because of this, after Albery says he will not be changing his decision, I insult him some in my ahelps, and the space ninja leaves the armory without a word, I get pissed, thus leading to the next issue.

In short for this segment of my issue with staff, Alveryk's flagrant disregard for what we accomplished IC and putting what a single player wanted over what others wanted is my issue, but he was also calm, cool, and collected when I was being expecially rude in LOOC and in my ahelps to him, so props to that.

As for shameonturtles, before I begin here, he was also restrained and what you could call neutral during my salt in my ahelps towards him as well, and at this in speaking to him I was being pretty rude as I was taking out a bad day on the admin staff, which is neither an excuse nor a valid reason to do so.

Anyways, in the armory, wizard pops in, and at this point my character is having a mental break down after being being forced to come to conclusion that he couldn't fight the enemy and protect his friends and that magic existed, at which point I began a laborious monologue on public comms insulting the engineering crew for letting the SM delaminate as well ass insulting the guy with the brand spanking new hardsuit I thought I took even though I was holding it in my hands. With the realization that my world was shattered, I was uselsss, and all attempts to stop the hostile parties was useless and that since they could just teleport and fight any ERT since the laser rifle didn't phase them and non-lethals didn't make them flinch, I gave up on the world and shot myself. I also salted twice in dchat when asked what happened, using my saltmining abilities as the answer to dchat's questions. I was warned and stopped there. Then, shameonturtles PM's me using the signature "Hey got a moment?" of all admin staff using baycode for some reason, and asked why I shot myself, arguing my points as to why I killed myself. I, still feeling justified, argued the point until I became heated and took vented that anger on shameonturtles, at which point he gave me a warning for committing suicide and arguing with staff as well as insulting staff, let me tell you on several occasions admittedly. And half of that warning is fine, I'll still argue that the suicide was justified until the sun sets but me insulting staff is very true and extremely valid. When the popup occurred saying you had been warned there was a button that said "Acknowledge Warning", and when I went to click off of the page to ask shameonturtles what that does for staff, I closed it by mistake, so of course I'd now really like to know if there are negative consequences since I closed the panel and ahelped, his response saying that I should stop insulting staff and that it does effectively nothing on there end and that he would now ban me until I can

"cool off", even though I had legitimately said to him have a nice day when finished speaking to him. However, as I had previously used that same remark in a snarky manner, I could understand how he thought I was being snarky again, so that's fine. So, when I explain that I was, "I litteraly just asked a question about the mechanic my man." he didn't give me a chance to defend myself, I said two more sentences in my defense I got the ban, and there in lies my issue with shameonturtles, he not allowing me to defend myself and banning me after I had finished insulting staff after he had just given me a warning. If he was going to ban me, then do so, but also giving a warning seems overkill and really grinded my gears.

Evidence/logs/etc: https://yacobpo157.imgbb.com/ (Trash account with all images uploaded, to give context, some images were uploaded out of order by mistake, will clarify upon request.)

Additional remarks: I"m not trying to write a hit piece on either of these guys, nor am I gunning to have them removed. I just want someone whose opinion actually matters to talk to them so Alberyk doesn't abuse his powers again and so that shameonturtles gives people a moment to speak before he bans them so they can explain themselves.

Anyways, that's all folks. Have a good one!

I gave the ninja another chance because the wizard, without any real interaction with the ninja, just teleported near to them and fired a staff of change, forcing him to undress the hardsuit, while you ran and took it away. The ninja ahelped this and I ruled said interaction between both antagonists to be rule breaking, then, I gave the ninja another chance because I did believe it would be for the better of the narration and roleplay of the round itself.

And a lot of times we do help antags, mostly earlier which was clearly the case, when something goes really badly. And I did not have time to tell everyone involved about this, because, I was really busy due to having to also deal with other things like the sm exploding and other etc. Besides, the ninja was the only one that was trying to create any conflict or narrative, while the wizard was just running around showing his powers and claiming to be from the wizard federation. So, I did judge that giving them another chance would be far better than nothing.

I muted you from looc because you were pretty much at the point of insulting people and raging. I also agree with Turtle's decision here, both on the suicide warning and on the ban, mostly because you were just telling staff things like; "fuck you" over pms.

I gave the ninja another chance because the wizard, without any real interaction with the ninja, just teleported near to them and fired a staff of change, forcing him to undress the hardsuit, while you ran and took it away. The ninja ahelped this and I ruled said interaction between both antagonists to be rule breaking, then, I gave the ninja another chance because I did believe it would be for the better of the narration and roleplay of the round itself.

And a lot of times we do help antags, mostly earlier which was clearly the case, when something goes really badly. And I did not have time to tell everyone involved about this, because, I was really busy due to having to also deal with other things like the sm exploding and other things. Besides, the ninja was the only one that was trying to create any conflict or narrative, while the wizard was just running around showing his powers and claiming to be from the wizard federation. So, I did judge that giving them another chance would be far better than nothing.

I muted you from looc because you were pretty much at the point of insulting people and raging. I also agree with Turtle's decision here, both on the suicide warning and on the ban, mostly because you were just telling staff things like; "fuck you" over pms.

My issue there is, the wizard DID interact with the space ninja, we both warned him before the wizard fired the change bolt. And I gave that exact same explanation as to why I was, justifiably, muted from LOOC/OOC, as well as I'm not saying shameonturle was wrong for banning me for insulting staff, like I was repeatedly mind you, but that was the final straw was a misunderstanding he didn't give myself and doesn't give others the chance to explain. My issue with you is that you not only gave the wizard an unfair advantage while not balancing the scales by helping security out at all, but you effectively forced an antag's backstory, the wizard's, by forcing him to cut out the wizard federation part and did it purely because you are an admin and didn't like the play style in your opinion.

I have nothing against you personally or your character, or shameonturtle's person or character, it's just the way you do things.

And to reiterate, I just wanted someone to look at this, whose opinion actually matters, to say something on this, as when talking to people on discords for other servers as well as servers still in development, negative staff is the major thing they don't like about the server.

I'm not here to appeal a ban I mostly I deserved, I'm here to shed some light on occurrences that are harmful to a server I found and am enjoying, as well as trying to make what I think is a positive change.

Later!

My issue there is, the wizard DID interact with the space ninja, we both warned him before the wizard fired the change bolt. And I gave that exact same explanation as to why I was, justifiably, muted from LOOC/OOC, as well as I'm not saying shameonturle was wrong for banning me for insulting staff, like I was repeatedly mind you, but that was the final straw was a misunderstanding he didn't give myself and doesn't give others the chance to explain. My issue with you is that you not only gave the wizard an unfair advantage while not balancing the scales by helping security out at all, but you effectively forced an antag's backstory, the wizard's, by forcing him to cut out the wizard federation part and did it purely because you are an admin and didn't like the play style in your opinion.

I never told the wizard to change how he was playing or his motivations, I don't know where you are taking this from. Also, I don't know why you are so worried about things being fair or a side having an advantage, the main purpose is not for x to defeat y or catch all traitors, but, to roleplay and drive a narration.

My issue there is, the wizard DID interact with the space ninja, we both warned him before the wizard fired the change bolt. And I gave that exact same explanation as to why I was, justifiably, muted from LOOC/OOC, as well as I'm not saying shameonturle was wrong for banning me for insulting staff, like I was repeatedly mind you, but that was the final straw was a misunderstanding he didn't give myself and doesn't give others the chance to explain. My issue with you is that you not only gave the wizard an unfair advantage while not balancing the scales by helping security out at all, but you effectively forced an antag's backstory, the wizard's, by forcing him to cut out the wizard federation part and did it purely because you are an admin and didn't like the play style in your opinion.

 

I never told the wizard to change how he was playing or his motivations, I don't know where you are taking this from. Also, I don't know why you are so worried about things being fair or a side having an advantage, the main purpose is not for x to defeat y or catch all traitors, but, to roleplay and drive a narration.

Well after you spoke to him something must've been said to make him stop, as he never again referenced it for the duration of the round I was still present for before I was given the 12 hour ban, which is why I think it was what you or maybe other staff said to him.

Well after you spoke to him something must've been said to make him stop, as he never again referenced it for the duration of the round I was still present for before I was given the 12 hour ban, which is why I think it was what you or maybe other staff said to him.

I only had a talk to him about the interaction between him and ninja, nothing else.

Well after you spoke to him something must've been said to make him stop, as he never again referenced it for the duration of the round I was still present for before I was given the 12 hour ban, which is why I think it was what you or maybe other staff said to him.

 

I only had a talk to him about the interaction between him and ninja, nothing else.

Oh okay, then it's just you not liking how easily the space ninja was taken down so you gave him a second try, even though he was ICly warned and had to the face the consequences of his actions.

I was a witness to the events that have unfolded in LOOC, dead chat, and ICly with my janitor character.

I am just going to start pointing out some of my red flags.

I began a laborious monologue on public comms insulting the engineering crew for letting the SM delaminate as well ass insulting the guy with the brand spanking new hardsuit I thought I took even though I was holding it in my hands.

I don't really see how three lines of comm chatter is a laborious monologue.

Also you could of done a lot better things then be, "I can't stop the dude so my life is now worthless." It seems you just looked for a possible way to commit suicide. You even stated that you did not want to be part of the round anymore because the admins decided to give the ninja another chance.

Your suicide completely filled your job slot and also destroyed your brain so it may as well hurt the station, if you wish to leave the round.. there is cryo.

I see why the ninja got a second chance because there was really not any interaction between the Ninja and Wizard who had a name that I would honestly see on TG. (Not trying to insult the wizard) The ninja was hit with a poly morph staff and there is zero counter to it with nothing the ninja was able to do against it. You can't simply claim "This is the consequences of his actions" when you get one antag to shut down another antags round, instantly in 20 min of the round with close to no interaction between them. It seems very much like valid hunting behavior.

To handle the situation better, you could of requested other security officers, go to the brig, talk to them about why they are on the station, keep people around you protected, and lastly analyze the threat. Did the ninja shoot off a laser rifle at someone? All I seen him do was use non-lethal with a flashbang and that was really all. Hell, the wizard even tried to stop you from committing suicide by disarming the laser rifle.

Full PM history from the time I first contacted Yacob:

Anyways, in the armory, wizard pops in, and at this point my character is having a mental break down after being being forced to come to conclusion that he couldn't fight the enemy and protect his friends and that magic existed, at which point I began a laborious monologue on public comms insulting the engineering crew for letting the SM delaminate as well ass insulting the guy with the brand spanking new hardsuit I thought I took even though I was holding it in my hands. With the realization that my world was shattered, I was uselsss, and all attempts to stop the hostile parties was useless and that since they could just teleport and fight any ERT since the laser rifle didn't phase them and non-lethals didn't make them flinch, I gave up on the world and shot myself.

You explained to me here that your character had no hope, and that both non-lethals and lethal weaponry had no effect on them. As I said in PMs;

Shooting someone once with lasers, then them being still standing, is not enough of an attempt to then say they are immune to lethals.

I stand by this. Them not being fazed by this is not an issue with the methods you are using, but the resilience of the SS13 human, along with the pain and damage system. The wizard was a challenging enemy.

They were incredibly mobile. Yes, an ERT would have trouble fighting them. It was not impossible for you, nor would it be impossible for them. However as I tried to stress in PMs, even by giving you suggestions on how you could have fought the wizard, you had options.

Your disregard of these, along with a lot of your PMs - including the first few - indicated to me this suicide was primarily OOCly motivated. I didn't actually see what you said in Dsay or the warning to stop you got from Alberyk, but knowing that now just makes me think even more along these lines. Throughout PMs, you continually referred to how staff abused their powers, and pandered to antagonists. I told you to direct those concerns into the proper channels, and not take out your frustration ICly.

As for the warning, exact wording:

Warning added by shameonturtles, for: Commited suicide in character without enough reason and without adminhelping. Keep in mind: Suicide is generally a NO, unless you have believable reason for it and do it in a realistic way (ODin on chemicals as a chemist is realistic, but cutting off your head isn't), you can contact the admins to clear situations like that. Additionally: All staff ingame decisions are final. OOC and adminhelp aren't the place to argue about our staff's decisions. If you'd like to contest a punishment, rule, or actions from a staffmember, start a discussion thread in the appropriate subsection of our forums.

In regards to the adminhelp about acknowledging warnings;

I closed it by mistake, so of course I'd now really like to know if there are negative consequences since I closed the panel and ahelped, his response saying that I should stop insulting staff and that it does effectively nothing on there end and that he would now ban me until I can

"cool off"

Due to your consistent disrespect towards me and the staff team, I was writing up a PM saying that you would be banned for a day when you adminhelped asking what happened if you left a warning unacknowledged. I added the answer to your question onto the end of the PM I was writing, rather than sending two. To be clear, you were not banned because you asked about acknowledging warnings, but because of your previous disrespect. The adminhelp and my response can be found in the pastebin linked above.

Lastly, the ban. Exact wording:

shameonturtles has banned yacobpo157. - Reason: Became increasingly aggressive in PMs toward staff resulting in flat out insults. Please take this time to calm down, and direct your concerns to the proper channels. - This will be removed in 1440 minutes

You consistently insulted staff in our conversation over PMs. This is unacceptable.

he not allowing me to defend myself and banning me after I had finished insulting staff after he had just given me a warning. If he was going to ban me, then do so, but also giving a warning seems overkill and really grinded my gears.

The warning was not placed on your account because you insulted staff, but because you committed suicide without a valid IC reason and then argued with staff about it. I gave you many chances to settle down and stop the insults, but you didn't. I told you that concerns about admins should not be put into barbed replies to those very same admins. They should be put here, in this forum.

Additional remarks:I just want someone whose opinion actually matters to talk to them so Alberyk doesn't abuse his powers again and so that shameonturtles gives people a moment to speak before he bans them so they can explain themselves.

I gave you many chances to correct your behavior. It never happened. If I may comment on Alberyk's part, he has already explained that staff may give antagonists a second chance, especially if it is early or the action against them breaks rules. In this situation, both of those things were the case.

I'm not going to read through your entire complaint, nor the replies already here. I'm a bit busy, and I can take a good guess at what you said. I was the Ninja in this round, and I will fully admit that I was stupid, salty and arrogant after I got staff of changed. I was angry at the wizard primarily, and at you secondarily for taking all my stuff without a word. Alb gave me the pseudo-respawn because I did not want to play as some random fucker after I'd spent that long making the character I had. So I came back on as the new Ninja, and did my stuff and had some fun. The situation with me getting a second lease of antaggery is per the norm, me being staff or not. I am honestly quite sure Alb didn't even want to give it to me, but he was busy and went with the easy choice, and I fully believe Alb did nothing wrong in this scenario, and Shame simply said what needed to be said, any staff member would've said the same to you.

So lets consider something. I said earlier that I was angry at both you and the wizard after what happened. We know what you did after this, which was unload a level of salt the dead sea would be proud of. What did the wizard do? He apologised, and he carried on making the round enjoyable. He was genuinely nice despite the fuck-up he had and him being quite new, and I'm happy to see that he put some effort in and made the round more enjoyable for everyone else, even including myself after a point. You, however, raged in LOOC and deadchat even after being told to stop, then moved that anger into PM's, then refused to listen to half of what was said to you.

I'll now address something you talked about in your PM's. You said how staff complaints are always bias and never resolved, which is why I'm slightly surprised to see you still put this up. Let me tell you why most staff complaints don't go through.

1: Half of them are stupid. Not much the case on this one as much as I'd want to argue otherwise, many of the complaints we get are ridiculous or misunderstandings due to the reporting players stupidity or ignorance. Perfect example is the staff complaint by Nanako on myself, that was a fun show.

2: Lack of information. The staff often make conclusions and decisions in a manner of thinking the general playerbase are completely unaware of, not because we don't tell them it's that it's just quite complicated and nuanced. Secondly, many things go on that a complaining player could not know of, like staff discussions, logs, other IC stuff outwith their knowledge. This can lead to getting an answer that is far different than the complaining player, and quite often it is too much of a hassle to fully convey that information to the players themselves. This is the case here, but no.3 also plays a part.

3: Although we really shouldn't, the attitude of the player complaining does play a lot into this. You made it very clear to us the moment you started yor LOOC salt that you were not going to be fun to interact with, nor to deal with in the long term. We get people like you very often, and they tend to either leave, calm themselves or end up permabanned. Choose which one you want to be, we will not choose for you.

I think that'll do on my end. G'day.

First things first, I would like to apologize for the delayed response. In hindsight a post saying we're looking into the matter was warranted to show that this matter was being looked into instead of being ignored.

I'm going to start with Alberyks side of this complaint. Generally when it comes to rounds that involve antagonists, as staff members, we attempt to keep things as smooth and as fun as possible for everyone. The Staff of Change thing is a very powerful and round changing item. We don't really condone mass use of it or unescalated use of it. In this instance where he ninja was transformed, it was deemed as one such incident, which for sake of fairness, had staff intervene. The wizard them self aside from this one incident were in my opinion as one of the participants of the round pretty great. They went around and interacted with the crew, causing mischief as they dead by fighting anyone that tried to cross them, leaving them broken as a warning to the crew.

Now the fact they didn't flinch doesn't mean the weapon employed didn't work. Antagonists in general are on extreme ends of spectrums when it comes to capability. It would not be in feasible for them to avoid showing pain or discomfort, or to at least have a higher threshold, that doesn't mean they're invincible. We have in the past placed more antagonists or spiced rounds up to keep the players of the round engaged and having fun.

Onto Shame. The warning and bans were justified in my opinion. We do not condone suicide without permission nor do we permit hostile and rude behavior towards members of staff. We're all volunteers here with the goal of helping and giving back to the community we so very much enjoyed. I do however concede that the punishment of the ban could have waited until your question was answered. As stated before, you were receiving two individual punishments. First a warning for the suicide. Second, a temperory ban for being very hostile and rude to the member of staff in question.

We understand that not all rounds are going to be enjoyable and satisfactory. We also understand that emotions can run hot due to certain happenings, and I find that we generally give an adequate period of time for people to contain themselves before being forced to remove them as to provide them with time to cool down.

I'm going to leave this open for 24 hours incase further discussion happen. You're also welcome to contact me on the Aurora discord or here on he forums should you wish to discuss this more personally.

24 hours passed. Locking and archiving.

Feel free to contact me personally for more information.