MO_oNyMan

If you scan someone who is alive you can't clone them at any time. If they are still alive or if they are unwilling to reenter their body the cloning attempt will fail for magic reasons. The suggestion fixes it while aslo adding a believable incurable PCS symptom such as total (or almost total) memory loss among other things that are written out in the initial suggestion post itself.

Under code blue you must provide a probable cause to a head of staff if you're searching their department and you must provide a probable cause to a crewmember if you're searching his person as written in the code blue security authority clarification. But let's stay on topic here

The initial idea is to offer a body to ghosts and observers after the original player didn't reenter the corpse of his character for some time. How the secondary clones will act is entirely up to them. They can RP mental breakdowns, nervous disorders, act sporadically and confused, or they can try to get clearence from the psychologist and return to the job the character initially was doing. They are not antags so general rules apply to them, however with a good enough reason (if an antag cloned them and recruited them to his cause, playing off of the lack of memory) they can help him fulfill his goals. Basically secondary clones are examples of imperfect cloning, manifesting symptoms of post-cloning syndrome in one way or another. Not sure what you meant about the last part with AI. Rephrase the question

Security doesn't search anyone they come in contact with. Searches work similar to arrests on Aurora. You need a warrant on code green and you need a probable cause on code blue in order to search someone. Just to correct you, Security can search you in code green with probable cause w/o a warrant. On Code Blue, random searches with no probable cause are permitted and advised. https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=9124 paragraph 3: security authority under code blue suggests that security must present a probable cause to conduct a search on code blue https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Corporate_Regulations#Corporate_Regulations A "Misc" paragraph in "Additional" section suggests that every search on code green must have a warrant. Exceptions are witnessing a crime or consent of direct supervisor of the crewmember being searched I know, the code announcements are confusing as hell and contradict regulations and forums. Probably need to make a suggestion to clarify this mess

I just feel like making a set distinction between points where clones are "original" and "secondary" kills the feel of unreliability of cloning, which is a major part of the idea. I.e. if someone yielded, medics would know after the first clone that all subsequent attempts would produce unstable clones. On the other hand in a systen where the secondary ghosts are offered a body only some time after the original didn't take the opportunity it leaves the mystery in the air. Any clone could be stable or unstable. First clone may be a chucklefuck or a competent guy with no memory of himself, and the possibility that one of the later clones can be the "original" with full memory and stable behaviour still exists, which leads to a lot of interesting scenarios (imagine security having to deal with the "original" clone while protecting the rights of the "secondary" one because "secondary" was cloned first)

I can't get behind adding another bartender slot. Bartender has too little responsibilities. However an alt-title would be nice to see and an improvement of the cafeteria/bar area is something that all crew can benefit from regardless of the department +1

But that means that there're two distinct options, one is making a good clone and the second automatically makes it unstable. It kills the element of mystery when you don't know whether it's an original cloning or a secondary one, psychiatrists have less to do because you can already tell by the type of cloning if the clone is clear for duty, medics wouldn't do secondary cloning because of high chance of the person having PCS and even if they're relatively stable, they lose all memory

Security doesn't search anyone they come in contact with. Searches work similar to arrests on Aurora. You need a warrant on code green and you need a probable cause on code blue in order to search someone.

Yeah, the main problem here is finding the correct time during which the priority is given to the original player. Might take some tweaking and tuning on the fly. As for cloning people into whitelisted roles - i don't see why we'd forbid it. Lings can already assume the forms of heads of staff, it doesn't upset the system too much. Captain and HoS should be loyalty implanted right after cloning to get to work again. For antags getting a puppet head of staff is one of the most desirable options. Outside of antag situations psychiatrists can actually get to do something once in a while as i imagine it'd be their duty to evaluate clones with some simple tests and behaviour analysis in order to clear them for duty, which would become a barrier between outright chucklefucks and captain's chair

Have you ever wanted to see your clone? Well, surely science can have something just for you in 2460. Yeah, i can't wait to see someone who looks and talks exactly like me. Except we never get to see our living clones. Why? Apparently because god is real and your soul is singular. However, we don't have to live like this, science gave you the answer you looked for. Suggestion A person can get cloned multiple times regardless if the player is alive or not. Be it because of malicious actions of antags or because of medbay personnel incompetence. The cloning process doesn't simply fail if the player is unwilling to re-enter the corpse or is already alive. Instead after some time the body is offered to a random ghost, who has the choice to occupy the cloned body. It has appearence of a character being cloned, but doesn't have any recollection of who he is and was. How does it benefit the gameplay? - Makes medical gameplay more in-depth, requiring medics to pay attention to who and when they cloned - Cloning mechanics with actual living clones! - Give ghosts something to do by getting them back into the round - Gives antags some interesting options of cloning someone and using that clone to impersonate the actual character - Plays into the post-cloning syndrome lore, as "secondary" clones have no idea who they are or where they are at and can act confused, lost and be nothing like their "original" - Provides some interesting RP situations. Engaging psychologists in rehabilitation, moral problam of how to deal with excessive clones, dealing with medics who fucked up, etc.

Add another security status. Search status would work similar to the currently existing arrest status, displaying an icon above the character's sprite if looked at through a sec hud, reminding security officers that this person has to be searched without the need of constantly stating so on sec frequency over and over again.

The suggestion is a fairly simple expansion on places where you can hang your clothes. The coat rack currently stores one piece of clothes which also has to be a trenchcoat, a forensic jacket or a labcoat. The suggestion is a two parter. 1) Make coatracks great again. Allow them to store two objects and expand the types of such objects to hats and all overcoats (exluding armor and space suits + anything i can't think of right now that wouldn't make sense) 2) Arguably the greatest idea that humanity came up with is to hang coats on chairs. I'd love to be able to make chairs a single-piece storage for overcoats similar to how racks are now.

fibers kit. You apparently missed it when adding the forensics gear Oh, and crime kit itself (as in the container). It's a vital part of forensics kit as it's the only container i know that doesn't interact with forensics tool upon clicking

I really like the idea of making a merge of virology ad chemistry alt-title. Chemists are not too busy to handle some additional chores and virology would benefit from being allowed to actually do something. The only problem with replacing virologist with bio-physician is that gap between the chemistry and viro. Some tweak to adress that would be nice. I think a new medbay map is being developed right now, adress mappers (@Juani) about that Overall +1

I can't get behind the idea. - Detective and CSI are an essential part of security team. Imagine the round with stealth lings where you have 2 dog handlers instead of CSI/detective duo. - Detective effectively fill in an important niche of handling human interaction in ongoing investigations. The same can't be said about k9 - Dog mechanics are terrible as of now -1

Well don't put an emag in your pocket when you're standing 1 tile away directly in from of security on code blue/red. Exactly. I wouldn't call trying to conceal a contraband item standing directly in front of an officer "stealth". Taking into consideration that all items (not only illegal ones) will display a message i highly doubt security will unga-bunga check everyone who "puts something in their pocket". On the other hand it's a more realistic model, as i would expect to notice when a criminal tries to conceal a weapon in front of me. So if you want to be stealthy - please do. The suggestion doesn't remove your ability to hide items completely. A +1 from me

I'm not sure how i feel about this. Labeling the evidence lockers according to their case would become almost irrelevant, since it's somewhat harder to point at the sliding door than it is to point at the locker. On the other hand, the labeling process itself would become easier since the doors would automatically close after you tag them with the labeler, which I like. From the aesthetic point of view i think i like lockers slightly more, since stacks of items look really ugly. So i'm torn

Actually true, I said charges don't stack multiplicatively, if you cared to read the context appropriately. I'm fully aware of the ability to adjust the range of a timed sentence based on severity, but again, a single charge of theft can never be charged above the maximum time that can be inflicted for theft. Double jeopardy is also not allowed for a single case, to charge someone with theft twice in one brig sentence they must've done it twice in two separate instances before being caught. I.e., steals cargo's shipments, steals cash on the bar counter and makes a run for it, that's two separate cases of theft but they do not stack multiplicatively, they stack additively like all charges do. You're talking about not being abe to go above a certain time in a sentence. I'm talking about removing time sentences completely. Therefore another blueprint for compensating for repeated offense and such would needed to substitute for a removed one. Where once were possible 10 minutes instead of 2 now would be a possible termination of contract instead of a fine. If it is still not enough for you go talk to the captain, present him the case, get a HuT order. Problem solved. Generally a suggestion is simply to replace an existing OOC based punishment that does not make sense ICly with an IC based punisgment that doesn't make sense OOCly. What it boild down to is do you believe people will go full greytide and behave like dicks just because the punishment does not affect them OOCly as much as it used to. I don't believe they will, hence the suggestion.

Where exactly in the presented suggestion have you noticed anything about making it easier to get removed from the round?

Actually not true, there's already flexible time in timed sentences and optional additional means (like tracking implants, demotions, fines, mandatory psych evaluations etc.) to compensate for repeated offense and such. Removing timed sentence would require another type of escalation. Like going from fining to demotion, from demotion to termination and from termination to HuT. It's not. However it is an arguement for removing a system that realistically doesn't make sense and replacing it with something that would promote people getting involved in round RP more.

The medbay and chemistry shutters are like the ones you see in shops when the day is over and they close for the night. I doubt they could do much damage. The huge metal oneson the bridge on the other hand are blast doors and may very well do harm if they close on you. The only issue i see with this is that you'd probably be crushed to death (kinda like in a disposal crusher) if you're caught in blast doors

Warden have a lot of stuff to do besides looking after convicts as was mentioned earlier. Looking after the inmates is actually the least time-consuming activity the warden has on his hands since you just dump them in their cell and return when the time is nearly done. In fact warden has so much other duties on his plate that there was talk about a possibility of having a second warden to take some pressure off the warden. That, however is an entirely different issue. It's unrealistic consequence of doing a crime. In a civilian workplace a crime would realistically be met with administrative action, not jail time that is applied without any prior trial. There are a lot of possible consequences for a crime besides timed brig sentences. As for the last part it's just not applicable to antags as they are required to do crime by their role. Besides, NT is a private company, not law enforcment. They are not entitled to sentence criminals. If it's a case self-antagging griefers, stacking charges will eventually land them in the brig permanently, get an IR filed against them and most likely catch attention of admins. If it's an actual antag a serious enough offense will get him the same HuT sentence. And if his action do not warrant a HuT sentence I'd rather have him be out there creating fun by antagging because for officers investigationg is fun. On more than several occasions I witnessed security purposefuly releasing an antag caught too early on in the round because brigging him right off the bat is not fun. Fighting an antag is fun. Chasing an antag is fun. Catching an antag is fun. Processing an antag is fun. Brigging an antag is fun. But after you leave him in his cell there's no fun to be had unless you want to interrogate him or poke fun of him. This would also make an investigation process of building a case much deeper as if you know that a guy poses a danger to the crew but all you have on him is trespassing you might want to take your time with requiesting a warrant until you get a chance to stick something more serious to him. Again. HRP. In the ideal world the motivation behind not wanting to mess with security should be "I don't want to lose my pay or get fired" as opposed to "I don't want to spend two hours of my game sitting in a cell". Now it's ambitious, but even if it's hard to achieve, trying to improve is an important thing. As for the last part there, the suggested change is not designed to help security power mechanics in any way, i don't know what gave you that impression. It is designed to implement a believable punishment system and promote roleplay as opposed to having to sit in a 3x3 room for x time because you've done something minorly wrong.

I don't see how this is connected to the issue at hand unless you're saying that change is always bad in which case you're wrong I would agree on that as i would prefer shitlers to be dealt with ICly rather than via admin intervention. However we do not live in a perfect world and not all people can be reasoned with by IC means. Furthermore admin intervention is not something security can influence. If the admin decides to intervene he intervenes regardless of if security want to deal with it ICly. Again, punishment system is not removed in this model. It's refitted to make sense and promote roleplay. If you want to take issue with other servers trying it, provide facts and evidence. Saying "a lot of servers tried and all of them failed" is a poor argument. Assuming anything about me as well as taking argument of my authority is an incredibly childish and desparate defense. You know nothing about me or how much i have played. If you want to shitpost instead of having a serious discussion, go do so at your own pet forum. What you're describing is a metagaming issue and i would agree except Aurora is HRP, not LRP. It's not about winning or losing, it's about creating storylines. A cultie or rev sitting in a cell for x minutes creates 0 storylines and stalls the round since this whole time they could've spent promoting their gimmick. Sec HuTing people instead of applying a proper punishment is an issue that can be adressed by their fellow officers, warden, HoS, captain, CCIA and admins, which is exactly why officers don't do that with a current system. Again, the quality of suggestion does not depend on who voices it. Bad players can have good suggestions, good players can have bad suggestion. If you want to make your point valid, i'd suggest to not take an argument of my authority. Loss of words can easily be explained by the lack of good arguments against a given suggestion. Ideas being pushed is not an issue, the issue is the inability to have a discussion about them without resorting to cheap tactics P.S. points unrelated to a discussion will from here on out be ignored

OOCly the only thing that has truly no consequences is a fine. However keep in mind that this is an HRP server and players who commit infractions just because fine or demotion is not a big deal will be dealt with by staff or CCIA if they are not antags, and will draw attention of security and eventually get HuTed if they are antags

Let me adress some issues in your response Yes it does. But why would you suddenly set an offender free after keeping him in a cell for 10 minutes to supposedly prevent damages he can cause The processing serves this purpose. When you get processed, searched, your charges are stated to you and an officer talks to you about the incident - that's when everything is set straight and you calm down. Sitting in a room alone is wasting your time. If an arrest was heated enough (aka including a fight or a shootout) you will get HuTed. If you can't control yourself ouside of a transparent box you will get dealt with by staff. ICly 5 minutes time outs serve no purpose. Antagonists are meant to antagonise. That's how they make the round unique and fun. By locking them out of the round for minor infractions you devoid the round of its driving force. Let the antags do their antagging On the other hand, if you're not an antag, mindlessly committing minor infractions for the sole reason that you feel it doesn't have consequences will cause an IR filed against you and action will be taken regardless. If a person feels the need to self antag for no apparent reason 5 minute time out will not stop them from doing so. Demotion are already applicable as punishment in corporate regulation. It serves the purpose of restraining your access to potentioally dangerous equipment that can be used by you to further commit infractions. Furthermore, antag rounds are not canon. If you get demoted on a canon round - feel free to solve this issue with CCIA. That's one of the weirder points here since no punishment is consistent between rounds short of CCIA action and taking a problem with demotions about that is senseless. No, it isn't. The brig system operates very similarly as to how naval ships function while abroad. If someone commits a crime on-board, they get locked up for a determinant amount of time and issued any other added consequences based on the infraction they committed. As soon as the ship's crew returns from abroad to their HQ, any brig offenders that had to be held until transfer to HQ are then handed over to MPs for a court martial or to be tried in a non-military court if the offender happens to be civilian personnel. The MPs will not simply let you go when you decide to spray-paint a lieutenant's Blackhawk with a flames and skulls color design without his express permission, they will lock you up either for a determinant amount of time or when a superior officer investigates and makes a decision himself as to what to do with you. Except Aurora is not a military vessel. Remind me the last time anyone was held in a transparent room for 15 minutes for theft in a civilian workplace and then released with no further consequences. This is not a problem. This is an obstacle the warden must overcome by being attentive to brig timers and ensuring the communal access is secured by the time the original detainee. AKA doing their job properly. Removing features just because you think it'd make it easier is neither proper game balance or is it a good thought process to have. It reflects a lazy mindset to want substance removed from a job because it has challenges to it. Except it is a problem. An obvious flaw in the automated brig system is not something a warden should deal with just because "it adds spice to the role". Warden has a lot of things to do besides staring at convicts. Like updating paperwork, issuing warrants, working the armoury, processing convicts etc. The mass escape in the case of warden being busy when the timer opens the cell should not realistically be a thing. This is already a thing anyway. Where do you think HuT individuals get handed off to for committing high crimes? If they are Biesel citizens, they have to be handled locally. If they aren't, the matter gets worse when they commit crimes in-sector as an expatriate. Not the point here. The point is that NT is dispensing punishment without any legal counseling. While you can renew your contract, get your demotion issue sorted out or get a compensation in money by taking the issue to CCIA you can't bring back the time you spend in the brig. HuT sentence is serious enough to get you passed over to law enforcement. Other sentences is just you sitting in a room and then being released because reasons. It does serve a purpose. If you do not wish to have your time wasted as a non-antagonist, don't commit crimes, that is by-and-large the secondary purpose of security, to shut down self-antags and police the crew's behavior. Removing this doesn't help antagonists, it helps the non-tasteful self-antagonists more and don't even say this should be a responsibility for server administration to police, because that is security's job. Antagonists are required to antagonize as part of their special function to make the round interesting, and in order for them to more effectively do that they need to play in a way that ensures they don't get caught and brigged if they wish to continue antagonizing. Antags need to be smarter than security and also more robust than all of security combined, and there are ways to do this and stay out of the brig. Tasteful self-antagonists can also do the same and neither get caught or even talked to by an admin if what they are doing makes sense in terms of escalation, but obviously to a level much less extreme than what antagonists are permitted to do. First of all, cutting on the time antags spends in brig does help them since it increases the time they are involved in the round. Antags do have to antagonise as a part of their special function, however the menace of spending a couple of minutes in the brig will not make them better at doing so. If they are brigged for minor infractions it does not impede on their ability to continue antagging further on in the slightest. Only a HuT sentence is ultimately effective in stopping antags from doing their thing and in that sense there's no difference between the current system and the suggested one. As for self antags, the poor sort of self antags that do something for shits and giggles actually is an administration's responsibility to police. Honestly your stance on this combined with the fact that you used to be a part of staff slightly worries me. As for situations where self antags should be dealt with ICly you still have a variety of tools at your disposal such as fines, demotions, IRs. Oh, no, every system surely has its flaws and downfalls but nothing is interesting without a little consequence to the game. The suggestion is not to remove consequences entirely, but to make them more believable and fitting for HRP server. Not even going to adress that. Clearly a fit having nothing to do with the discussion. Please stay on the topic and refrain from such arguments if you want to be taken seriously.