KingOfThePing

If anyone else has anything meaningful to add then please take the time now, since the PR will be merged soon.

We already have vendor restock packs. Janitors get them. Whoops, I wasnt on the latest reply. My bad.

I'll tackle the notice boards from a sprite perspective.

If someone is refusing to do the base job's duties it is an OOC issue that should be ahelped without question. The job guides will have a warning, the alt-title selection has a warning. If someone still refuses, they simply don't want to follow rules and have to be dealt in an OOC way. Regarding Electrician I will think it over.

There is nothing in lore regarding degrees that can be used here, so I will go by semantics which makes "Technician" sound "less" of a degree than "Engineer", but this is completely objective. Someone else might see it differently. The reality is that there is no solution because we do not know how degrees work or look like in the 2460s, thus the rule of cool applies. What sounds nice will be chosen without giving too much thought about what ranks higher in educational background. Two technician and two engineer titles for each creates parity. Regarding identifying what each job title does, I can only repeat myself that the player-base can be trusted to recognize it after sufficient time has passed. New players as well. At worst it gives characters a topic to talk about ICly: "Hey, what exactly is your job anyway?". I don' see any issues with this. All job titles, in my opinion, describe well at a glance what the character specalizes in. Except Systems Engineer. I think the specialization for electronics/electrical systems could be clearer. I'll think about it tomorrow.

I think having a proper distinction between technicians and engineers would be good. As I stated I am not from an engineering field so I don't know what would be appropriate for what alt-title. @CatsinHD or anyone else with experience could help with that, please. Other than that the current list is as follow: Currently engineers can be: Ship Engineer Reactor Technician Maintenance Technician Systems Engineer Atmospheric Technicians have not been forgotten: Atmospheric Technician Enviromental Systems Engineer (as a higher education alternative to Atmos Tech) Propulsion Engineer ("Thrust Master" sadly had to be opposed.) Damage Control Technician This gives both sides of engineering two lower end and two higher end educations and specializations, which is fair, I believe.

Kind of a valid but also not really valid argument, because Atmos Techs can also repair your walls and windows, as can engineers lay pipes or understand simple airflow things. One shouldn't step into the other's area when both are present. I don't think Technician <-> Engineer confusion is too much to expect the playerbase to understand. It will maybe be confusing when the alt-titles are newly introduced but the wiki, job guides and simply time will set the jobs properly.

My only gripe is that Propulsion Engineer doesn't sound cool enough 😎. But I wouldn't be opposed.

Implementing Popper & Cats suggestion. As well as agreeing with Batra's by retaining "Reactor Technician". Not leaning towards Reactor Technician nor Reactor Engineer so I will leave it as is for now. I replaced "Shipboard Systems Engineer" with "Systems Engineer", added "Drive Systems Engineer" for Enviromental Systems Technician and added "Fire Control Technician" as a compromise between "Fire Technician" and "Damage Control Technician". Would have liked to see Damage Control Technician but I think I see the wrong impression it might give.

Thank you, glad you like it. You make a lot of good points. I implemented kermit's suggestion and replaced "Enviromental Systems Technician" with "Drive Systems Engineer". Drive Systems because it can include both traditional and Bluespace drives and engines. I like your second point. Initially I had something like "Damage Control Technician" or "Crisis Response Technician" in mind but found it too specific for engineer. Giving it to atmos who also double as firefighters is a good idea. That would be occupy the third and final slot atmos has free. I refrained from using electrician because personally I found it too broad and too far away from engineering you have in mind when you think about our engineers on the Horizon. I think scratching "Maintenance Technician" for something better would not give me any pain. Reactor Technician just sounds too cool, I would be sad to let it go, to be honest. If you have a suggestion on what the electricity related title should be just let me know. I agree that alt-titles are great for flavour. Workplaces are full of different job titles even if they are similar. It might be hard to find a sweet spot that's all a discussion for another day.

Very good idea. I didn't think about the actual engines and it is a valid specialization on a space ship.

If it is reflected in the wiki job guides (the general difference between engineer and technician, that is) for qualifications, it should be no problem, then.

Funny that you mention this. Initially I wrote something like "[...] that these alternative job titles are mostly for fleshing out a character, for example with higher education (specialized engineer) or lower edcuation (like technician)..." However I was not really sure about the implications in english so I left it out. I would have no issue with standardizing it by someone who knows more about engineering than I do to explain it to me. I also didn't know if it might interfere with the baseline duties of regular (no alt-title) engineer.

This thread is for feedback/ideas for the return of ENGINEERING'S alternative job titles of the following PR: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/21195 After a lengthy discussion on Discord I gauged that there is now a big support for the return of alternative titles. Some safeties will be put in place to not repeat past mistakes, most importantly the expectations of players and their job, no matter the alt-title they choose, if they choose one. You will now see a little blurb when selecting an alternative title in the job controller (see image). I would also like the wiki team to put a big, red disclaimer on every job page (preferably near the top) that says the same thing and explains that these alternative job titles are mostly for fleshing out a character with higher education or augmented/specialized education. This does NOT exclude ANYONE to not perform the duties laid out in the wiki's job guides. Below you can submit your ideas on what should be added to the alt-titles list. No more than three alt-titles because that was the amount of alt-titles we had before. Currently engineers can be: Ship Engineer Reactor Technician Maintenance Technician Systems Engineer Atmospheric Technicians have not been forgotten: Atmospheric Technician Life Support Engineer Drive Systems Engineer Fire Control Technician Please don't be mean, I had a hard time coming up with these alt-titles. I will gladly accept better/more fitting/more popular ones. Please discuss everything below. Please refrain from discussing alt-titles for non-engineering jobs in this thread, thank you.

Diplimatic entities not having a gun is the most normal thing in the world. Them having one in the first place was kinda weird to me. I think the bodyguards are really cool 👍

You can still select them. I re-wrote all the descriptions to fit and removed all the ones that are memes (that I was aware of). They give a lot of flavour and are not harmful in anyway. Also, no one is calling the bar by the name of the sign. Everyone calls it the bar. No one calls it "The Light Bulb" or "The Outer Spess". It's just a fun little thing and possibility for bartenders to set a certain vibe and even that is kind of a stretch. The bar is the bar, the kitchen is the kitchen, no matter what sign is chosen. And yes, they can be chosen with anyone who has bar access on their ID.

Get rid of the commissary, it's whatever anyway. Way better idea. Only thing is to not cut out the bathrooms, if we can. We have not enough anyway. But I'm sure there is a nice space somewhere around that hallway it can be put in.

I think this is actually a pretty good idea to add.

Sorry but this reads like "we have to stick to it because we have to stick to it", since "the scarcity [...] plays a critical role in allowing us to have narratives". Okay, every other big plot hook, whatever it may be also fulfills that role and are maybe not in a creative dead end because the scarcity topic is kind of a big nothingburger? It has no consequences in-game, it is kind of ignored unless it's the (forced) center topic in an event and it just doesn't fit. It's irrelevant that your rework takes as long as it takes. That was not criticized, nor is it relevant because things take time and that's fine. It's about the fact that this entire angle is a dead end and has been for years. There is no shame, nor is it in any way detrimental if another big plot hook, one that might simply work better, could be considered, because no one can guarantee that this Phoron scarcity will "work" after your rework either. It has been tried, multiple times with multiple people at the helm, and we are no step further. I also don't want to start a huge discussion here. I just wanted to point out that it may be very worth considering another story hook instead of the one we have right now.

Can someone explain to me why we try to resuscitate this forsaken Phoron scarcity topic for literal years now, in which it just has not worked as a plot device, instead of just moving on and doing something actual meaningful with our time? For once I am not even trying to play the devil's advocate here but just take a step back and look at the entire Phoron scarcity topic from a distance and to evaluate and maybe admit that it just does not work for as a lot of time that passed has shown. Maybe just tick it off and move on with something....else.

Oh wow. I never seen these images. I guess both Port Antilla and Unathi lore pages are ones I haven't looked at in quite some time. I agree with most statements here. These images don't even look good. They should be removed because they add nothing and are actually detrimental to the pages itself and I think most would agree when presented with these images outside of the context of the wiki pages. I guess it can be frustrating for lore writers to seek out, coordinate and wait for proper artworks (no matter if paid or offered for free), but these AI images don't really do our server justice. Especially looking at Port Antilla, there are enough (free to use) images/art creations out there that depict tropical islands/beaches/etc. There is literally no need to use a bad AI model for pictures like these. Thus, I agree that they should be removed and maybe an internal talk by the lore writers on how to proceed or how to handle this topic in the future should be held.

What page on the wiki uses AI art?

After giving it some thought I agree with basically everything here. I think this would all enhance gameplay and immersion. Especially the maintenance tunnels need to be grimier and resemblence maintenance tunnels more. However, such a refit would take a considerable time in dock. Maybe we need to SKIP some time until the Horizon's refit is. 😰

Lore Impact: Medium Species: Human Short Description: Introducing Saturn and two of its many moons into the lore and as lore origins. How will this be reflected on-station?: Characters can utilize the origin and accent that are being added into the game and obviously talk about it. Does this addition do anything not achieved by what already exists?: Yes, Saturn has no lore right now. Do you understand that the project may change over time in ways you may not foresee once it is handed over to the Lore Team?: Yes Long Description: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f3MoZ1eJfYFJKPX1ifmEZ4hmyg61HQ2CXdzDyP8ESLg/edit?usp=sharing

I support this application, because I think max plays very enjoyable, even if sometimes a bit unusual characters, that are interesting. I have no reason to believe the he wouldnt apply this ability to command characters.