N8-Toe

If removing borging if off the table. Can we than discuss the IC/OOC standards to use these pseudo executions. What situations do we think should be appropriate then. What standard do the staff judge as "reasonable and good play" to execute the antag? Again as I have pointed out several times the regs allow the summery borging of antags explicitly, so what situations should we consider ahelp or complaint worthy.

The Crew is 100% as responsible for escalation as the antag. arguably more so as they have more resources to bring about. The crew can turn a 20/100 situation into a 100/100 situation and the antag can do nothing about it. If I as an antag am say, dealing drugs. Maybe I got a knife or a pistol.. well security can go to code blue, fully gear, and jump me 1 v 5. They have chosen to escalate and I am at their mercy of either I escalate and fight, or I capitulate. From experience, if I capitulate I will often end my round in a cell as they'll try and keep me there. Now lets use the example case 1. The mutinious warden. The Antag drove escalation for the round, there was good RP, with crew escalating as well. No one died. Ian died, and I think they exchanged some laser fire with a bridge crewman. So They are shot, and captured. the situation has gone from 50/100 back to 10/100. It is ON THE CREW. To escalate their RP, to act reasonably and in effort of a good story. In this instance the crew just took them from medical and borged them within minutes of capture. That is going 100/100. The crew escalated a situation needlessly. The traitor was disarmed, and cuffed to a bed. Would you consider it proper escalation for an antag who captures and cuffs a sec officer... to just, after a minute or two walk over and kill them. Probably not no.. The crew should be held to a HIGHER STANDARD when it comes to violence and force than the antag. If they are not, the antag is screwed in all forms, and we hurt our chance to make a good story. 2: Again in my example.. the options you have given are "resign" which again I will get IR'ed or bwoinked if I am quitting every fourth round over something that is legal and allowed by regs. I will be told "your character signed up for this". I will get sanctioned by the staff for that. My other option as said.. is armed mutiny, which again, I will get in trouble for if I am always doing that. There is no way to consistently as a sec impede or get in the way of borging or make a grand stand.. without it getting old and me sanctioned. I guarantee it with every fiber of my being. Borging is not some one in a 100 round thing. It happens kinda often I'd say. 3: Ok.. sure it'd be more fun. go back to previously said.. what is the crew to just have a mutiny every other time someone is borged? going to the other thing that is said here, people might not have much sympathy for the antag.. so we need to have OOC steps taken to protect the antag from just being lynched or otherwise having their round ruined because they're on the "other team" and may be outnumbered 30 to 1 counting the whole crew. 4: Yes it is part of a larger issue of people expecting much from antags, while giving them little, and operating under the assumption the crew and SCC must win every conflict. Now if you have a solution to all of this, I am all ears. but I view over borging and executing as a part of this, and have made this thread to hopefully treat a symptom. Will it fix everything? no, will it at least help, absolutely, 5: The antag is here to antagonize. They will use violence, they will subterfuge, they will sabotage the ship, they will kill peoples friends, they will make threats, they will grandstand for terror groups. They will steal your christmas cookies and set whoville on fire. they are the bad guys. We cannot say they deserve to have their round needlessly ended, or treated poorly because "well you did bad things". Of course they did, infact they did us all a solid by readying up and enabling antag so we all can play the fun gamemodes. If their reward for doing that, and taking on all the pressure that comes with that... is we just killed them the moment they're captured without fanfare. I can't imagine they'll keep playing antag. Why do we have interogation, cells, investigators and all of that if the cap can just say "borg em" and they go from medical, to machinist, to beep boop or ghost out. 6: Borging sucks compared to marooning because of how simple it is.. you are taken in cuffs, usually from medical.. and just thrown on a table with a suppressor black screen.. and now your forced to be a borg.. or just ghost. you die while sedated with nothing you can do to stop it. no counter play, no appeal. Often if you've fought the crew you've by now been in medical so any freedom implants gone. This whole process from "borg them" to you being brainless can be five minutes. and often is. Marooning is a whole process, your awake, and you can wander the astroid or atleast bitch about it. I think borging should go, and the thresh hold to maroon raised to "they are an uncontained threat or otherwise the mere act of keeping them on the ship will gravely endanger the lives of the crew". It should be uncommon, and if its used as a "I want to win/not deal with you button" start stripping whitelists. This solves the problem of the crew executing antags on capture, and forces them to actually RP with them and play ball. And assures antag players they wont just be killed

I'm also going to reply directly to this This isn't the rules. This isn't on the wiki under regs or SOP. This is, and I am sorry, just kinda.. hopeful thinking? A crewmember can be borged on first offense for "Attempted murder" on the captains order, essentially summarily. There is no requirement of multiple escapes, there is no requirement for them being uncooperative. None of this is on the wiki or mentioned anywhere. If this is the policy, it is unenforced, not promulgated anywhere clearly for the playerbase to see. And is not the standard this suggestion should be judged against. It is per regulation, allowed, for the Captain to order someone who shoots at or stabs at security during an arrest, which could be called attempted murder. To just be taken from medical and borged. There is nothing aganst any IC regulation or policy stopping them. Again why the examples I listed are not being made a player complaint is they are 100% allowed to do that. I also find the implication of "either nobody knows your character, you've (or your goals have) been difficult or impossible to sympathise with, or haven't interacted with the crew in a positive light at all." To be bad coming from a staff member. "be more popular if you want people to not let you get executed right after arrest" is a bad take and implication. The antagonist is also there to provide conflict, of course its hard to sympathize with them. They're almost supposed to be. Which is why we then have OOC and IC rules and guidelines stopping the crew from just lynching them, because that gets old after awhile, and isn't really fun. Edit: this is what wiki says on borging Regarding cyborgification The SCCV Horizon is registered as a Biesel ship, and therefore Biesel laws apply aboard. Biesel law does not consider cyborgification capital punishment, making it an optional punishment. If Nralakk Federation citizens have a Do Not Borgify order in their records, their punishment becomes holding until transfer instead of cyborgification. If a captain is not present to authorize cyborgification, the command staff must pass a majority vote to authorize it. and marooning An individual being marooned will have their employment considered terminated, their person stripped of all workplace equipment and left on the nearest celestial body or current port of call with their personal belongings. Humans, Tajara, Skrell and IPC are to be given a basic softsuit, oxygen (or a suit cooler unit) and a GPS. Vaurca and Diona are to be given k'ois or a source of light instead. A majority vote is required to pass a marooning unless a Captain is present, at which point the Captain may call for a marooning without Command support. An after-action report must be faxed to Central after a marooning has occurred There is NO stated requirement for anything beyond it being ordered by command.

1: No it isn't that much. In the examples I gave, the crew offered no escalation once captured. it was in cuffs, boom zoom, off to the machinist. And that escalation to.. what? in the first example there was escalation and a climax to the conflict. the warden got shot and arrested. Borging them, with no announcement, no fanfare, heck I didn't know they where being borged and I was a sec officer. That isn't escalation thats just valid hunting. And again not a player complaint as the rules and IC regs allow it. There is nothing saying they need an announcement or fanfare, or even processing, or even anything. They can just take them from medical and just silently have them borged. That is allowed. And is what happened, and what has happened before and will happen again. The antag escalates and RP's and has all of these burdens to reach for violence. yet the crew is not bound by that it seems as they can just kill them in effect once captured and in cuffs. they might as well, just put the cuffed antag to the wall and shoot them at that point. And again how is that fair to the antag who again has all this restriction and pressure on them to escalate and build over those 2 hours... just to be killed while in cuffs, black screened on an operating table right after capture? how is that fun, or fair to that player. And on ganking, do again remember, its often 5 v 1. Why is it ganking and an issue when its the antag at a disadvantage. but built up conflict when its the armed sec team with crew support killing their cuffed prisoner with minimal RP. Why does the antag have more burden to their decision to kill than the whole ass crew and whitelisted command. 2: Try to perform your job to a satisfactory standard is a rule. I would get IR'ed and bwoinked faster than my head could spin if I was consistently refusing orders by the captain as security. And again people have stated over and over on this thread mutiny is a borgable offense and "rightfully so". So... what am I just to do? as again As the rules are written, and policy and IC regs. the Captain can just have my ass killed if I try and make some grandstand and encourage others to refuse. So it really does come down to "Do it or die" or "Do it or have to explain to an admin why im starting a mutiny that will very likely turn violent and hijack the round". I don't think the staff want me starting an armed revolt every forth round as a sec officer. 3: Thats a cool scenario. it doesn't happen. As again, if you do that, you are as the regs, policy, and examples will show, next on the table. All as a non antag. That is a stars align moment. But almost every round will not have that star align moment. People are not going to often throw molotovs at the captain as a non antag, especially to stick their neck out for the antag who very likely may have been shooting at them 5 minutes ago. as others have said, people are really hard on, and sometimes just, mean, to the antag and its player. I dont see riots to help them unless its some beloved character. We circle back to again. Borging, and also the loose standards to enforce an execution, are the problem. While they may be a symptom of a great problem. they themselves are still the problem. We as a community expect the antag to do alot, we expect them to drive conflict, be robust, while also RP'ing and giving us a fun scenario. We often as a community let them down or are harsh on this pressure.. So why should the crew not be expected to RP back with them, and provide them content once they have the upper hand. Its wildly unfair for the crew to just be killing them once captured, and especially with the excuse of "its the end of the round". What I hear is "the crew/sec needs their cookie for playing, and should get to just ice the antag with minimal RP so they get to win".

Being near the end of round should have zero bearing on anything. Do we relax our standards for the Antag when the rounds close to an end? Is it suddenly Ok for me as an antag to just start murdering people with less RP? If I'm a traitor can I just.. lob a nade into a lobby? or just start capturing and killing cuffed people with a minute or two of roleplay? No? Than why is the crew who has a higher standard of play, why is command who has the highest standard of play, suddenly given the excuse to kill and remove players from the round with a lower barrier of entry because "Well the rounds almost over". The Crew is not entitled to "Win". The antag is not bound to loose to them, to sacrifice their fun, and their RP as a player, just so the crew can get their greentext. You got like, a few minutes of RP and was it really good RP if in your own words when you questioned it the answer from command was essentially "shut up". thats not good RP, thats just "Well I have to by the OOC rules follow commands and they told me we're killing this guy so my options are mutiny as a non antag or do it". Would you have gotten better RP if he had been brigged, investigated fully, and you got to interact with them until the end of round as he tries to clear his name? Or was the few minutes of RP with them in cuffs before they got killed better? Do you think the player who went from accusation to dead within a 10 minute period, who also yes you're right was innocent, had a good time? Do you think they felt they got good RP getting railroaded to the machinist shop, not getting an investigation, interogation, or even processed? I was in that round, I was an officer who was present when the HoS died and I told the Captain the person who was borged wasn't a party to it. And the player got killed anyway. This isn't a player complaint because as the current rules and policy stand. the Captain was allowed and in their right to make that decision, thus the suggestion I've made to change that. it doesn't matter what the SCC or any other IC entity thinks or cares. It's a game and we're discussing the dynamics of it OOC'ly. Borging as it is, as it is used, is bad for the game full stop is my opinion. We should have marooning as the last resort. As marooning gives you something, and you if you die, its not dying while already black screened and cuffed to an operating table. which isn't fun. And again on the charges. Attempted murder can carry a sentence of borging. The vast majority of antag gimmicks can be construed to be attempted murder. So suddenly our "action of last resort" can be applied nearly every round. We took away bombs from the antags because we felt it wasn't conductive to roleplay, we took away rubber 45's from security, we took away mesons from engineering. Things have been taken away that where long standing in the past because they didn't contribute, or where determined to be harming roleplay. I think as it stands and is being used Borging is incompatible with building a good story. especially as we now have marooning

I do agree with that. waiting on a fax reply kills RP. So I think the simplest is just removing borging as an option, and for marooning just raising the IC barrier for it

Ok so I'm going to give an example of two rounds I played this weekend with borging. And highlight the issue I have with it and as an example of why borging as a punishment needs to go. I wont be naming names as well 1: Traitor uses their TC to buy two announcements. saying PMCG crew's contracts are severed, and getting fined 500 credits. All of sec is PMCG essentially and canned. so warden opens armory and tries to organize sec to go get their moneys worth. There is RP, taking sides, and fun conflict. its a good gimmick, infact a great gimmick. They post up infront of the bridge with a gun, demanding the captain come out. they shoot Ian, they RP with people. its great. first issue unrelated to borging is people heckling them, even coming up to be mean and call the armed angry man stupid to his face. But so much "oh the fact you lost your job on a ship in deep space and have no money for food and rent is a non issue, god why are you being a snowflake". Which is bad RP, and is trying to rugpull the antags gimmick. its a good gimmick. So Eventually a PMCG rep joins and manages to convince the other sec on promises of new jobs, to arrest the warden. Well.. the warden who has at this point provided an hour and a half of good RP, conflict, and stakes. is shot and captured... and borged within minutes without even an announcement or fanfare. They didn't kill anyone, didn't even break into the bridge but BOOM borged. They provided 90 minutes of good conflict and RP and in return got none. They where not an uncontainable threat like people here say borging is for. Nah they just mutinied and got borged. If I was them, I'd quit playing antag. spend an hour getting heckled and single handedly driving a round just to be zoop, quick borged on capture? How is that fair to that player, how is that fun, how is that creating RP and being a good roleplayer? Its just shutting them down in the most final way possible. "Funs over, RP gravy train is over and I dont want to deal with the antag so borg them" 2: Vampire round. I dont remember all the details but I think it was all said and done a pretty good one! Now the vampire had taken several thralls, including a tajara officer. Which during the climatic showdown in the captains office. they ordered the Tajara to kill the HoS. What follows is a confusing fight between the tajara, HoS, and other officers who dont know whats happening and its hectic, confusing, no one knows whos on what side. So... fun, thats a great moment to reflect and RP on. So the Tajara is captured annnnnd to be borged. They never make it to the brig, they go form medical to the machinist shop. They try and RP the vamp made them but nope, on the table and out comes the brain. Next, another officer is accused of being part of it. There is no investigation, infact there is confusion if he was there, with some saying he was, some saying he wasn't... but Cap doesn't care. he gets borged too. No interrogations, No investigations, No RP, not even going to processing. They just get borged. All of that chance for RP, for conflict, for fun, gone. But the bad man lost. in both of these examples the round was made worse by borging. the antag who RP'ed and gave a good round was rewarded with being cuffed and just killed off after capture. Further RP, conflict, and investigation was denied. Why, with these examples in mind, should we keep borging. throwing them in the brig, interrogating them, actually *gasp* RP'ing with the antag would have provided more to the round and the players involved. Also these people where borged for single charges. not for a whole round of multiple murders and escapes. If what people are saying here that "borging is the last resort" well here is your proof it is not. So we should remove it. keep marooning as the last resort.

so here's the fun fact. I dont play onstation antag. I main investigator, and some security officer lately. This isn't a salt, this isn't me complaining because I've been borged abunch since I never have been. Not that it should matter, I just dislike the idea that "well get good" as a response to criticism To be quiet honest this line of thinking is not productive, and places all of the power back into the hands of command and sec to be "benevolent" to the antag. "Well it'd be stupid to be anti corporate on the SCC flagship" we have a gamemode called revolution, we have autotraitor. Just dismissing any anticorporate action as stupid or unrealistic pulls the rug out from the mere idea of these antags gimmicks and undercuts their ability to make those good stories you say you want, especially without murder. I mean, your not going to take my protest infront of the bridge seriously because I mean who am I but a mere mortal vs the narrative mary sue of the SCC. Despite being in deep space billions of light years from the SCC's resources. So I may as well take the captain hostage right and demand? Well whoops I've been captured because I didn't want to go popping off and murdering, since as you said thats not a good story. My reward is I am borged within five minutes of being captured. This line of thinking that is it is on the game modes selected antagnosits, to not "go to far" or else any form of valid hunting or unfun things done them is earned, is unproductive. Creating those good stories you and I both want requires everyone involved. the antag, command, security, and everyone else. to play to make that story, to give the benefit of the doubt, and to have a "yes and" attitude. Currently, you dont get that benefit as antag and it prevents us having those good stories. And I will also say if I'm a rev and my fellow revs get borged, its not prompting more good non violent RP. at that point my options are kill everyone in command and sec, or die. So... its gonna get bloody

Can we get it into IC regs that is shouldn't be the first step case. I have seen it been the first step, and as mentioned I've seen the time between capture and borging be minutes. I've missed on interviewing or interrogating people as investigator because "whoops, RP's over. we're killing them". And as an officer have been told to just take them right to the machinist, do not pass go, don't collect 200 credits. These being for those regular, first time offenses As well Attempted murder is just shooting at someone. It is painfully easy to apply this to the majority of traitors and their gimmick. Making the crew, as per regs, fully justified in just killing them off This is also building off what the CCIA person said here about how borging should be a last resort. I am here to tell you it is not being used as a last resort. Something needs to change policy wise to stop this. We would not consider it acceptable for the antag to just execute a security officer in cuffs because "well he shot at me". We would probably consider it ban worthy for the antag to go for headshots and shooting downed sec officers within five minutes of the conflict starting. So why is it acceptable for the crew, who should have much, much higher thresh hold for their violence. to Just kill the antag once captured. And yes, its for a few charges but those charges are not uncommon. To use mutiny as an example, we have a whole ass gamemode called revolution. So does every antag in a rev round just get to be executed once captured, according to our regs yeah? Where does that encourage roleplay? I expect that kinda thing from /TG/ station. Not Aurora

However this isn't how they're being used. I have seen several rounds recently where people are just.. being borged after captured. for just regular ol I3 offenses. I think the lack of borging would help accomplish it as it would take away the crews "easy out". They would have to, terrible I know, actually deal with their prisoners and not just kill them. This gives the antags time to do more antaggy stuff, escape, or maybe just RP with sec and visitors. And again I don't see people get borged or marooned after three escapes. I see it after one, or none. marooning I think should stay. but it should be the "break glass and pull" measure. the one used once in a blue moon for truly terrible threats the crew cannot deal with and contain. that is the "broken out three times and killed someone each time" scenario. but as of now people are getting marooned for scenarios when no ones died. Borging does not progress the narative of the round borging is unfun, arguably more unfun than just dying, for the antag

This is a poor argument. So.. if I as a traitor involve my head of staff in the gimmick, maybe I threaten them for encroaching on me dealing drugs? well thats assault of a head of staff, red level offense. I wave a gun around, maybe pop a round or two at sec? Well thats attempted murder. Maybe I'm more subtle, distributing anti SCC flyers, encouraging people to fight the power? Mutiny. Maybe I do something fully peaceful, I try and pay off a researcher for a science disk, or nab a head of staff's special item? Corporate espionage. Several of these can bring borging. So if I'm a traitor, and I dont want to get borged five minutes after I am captured, I just.. shouldn't steal sensitive items, shouldn't use a gun or weapon, Shouldn't do anything with the setting and inciting anger or anything against the SCC factions, deffinitly not involve a head of staff. This is not extremely aggressive. this is just par for the course antagging. on the kid gloves. A traitor is possibly going 1 v 6 or so versus security. They are given mechanical tools to complete this, as well fight off the sec hordes. but they also should be given breathing room via RP and rules. We cannot as a playerbase sit and say we want interesting antags, we want good antags, we want good stories. And than borg them right after capture. at that point we are failing our end of the bargain. Borging should not be an option anymore, and the standards to kill the antag once captured and in cuffs and take them out of the round higher.

Attempted murder, mutiny, and red level offenses are a traitors bread and butter. which in turn makes borging commands bread and butter. I've been home sick with the rona lately, so I've been playing alot. And I've been seeing borgings multiple times a day. If I am a traitor, or a rev. why should I give sec a chance, why should I RP with command, why should I risk my gimmick to try and build more a story if I know the second im floored, I'm being cuffed and taken to the machinist shop?

Borging the mutineers doesn't provide a satisfying conclusion to a round, or good RP. In my experience it is caught, straight to machinest shop, and beep boop. Thats not fun for anyone. I dont think it being near round end should have any bearing. is it suddenly ok for the antag to start wordlessly killing people when its round end? if not why is it more acceptable for security to kill? I agree, it is a corporate dystopia. but there is so, so many more ways to show that in a fun and engaging way than "bam, got ya! now to kill you". We're an RP server. I should have a better chance of ending my round here in the brig than I do on Goonstation. As of right now? I'd say my odd's are not in my favor if I'm a rev or traitor who goes big.

First to preface. this is not a salt post. I have myself never actually been borged. But I do main sec I've seen lately in alot of rounds borging used as a punishment, and very often the time from capture to borging is.. 5 minutes maybe? maybe 10? At that point we may as well just put the antag to the wall and shoot them. Borging does not provide any real substantive roleplay, and lets security and command wipe their hand of the antag. Saving them the risk of breakout or having to handle them. Having to hold someone in perma yes isn't the grand stage of RP, but allows the antag to attempt escape, have visitors, or engage with security in a positive or negative way. And I cannot imagine it is fun for the person being borged as again its not something they can really do anything or build off of for roleplay. If they wanted to be a borg, they would have readied up as a borg To build further to a second point. I feel the thresh hold for our psuedo executions needs to be raised so, so much higher. Marooning is killing them lets not kid ourselves. People should only be marooned if keeping them on the ship is in itself a risk to the safety of the ship and crew. This doesn't mean if they escape from the brig once they get thrown out and their round ended. I dont think the crew killing people, or borging them for anything short of a major crisis, them being some uncontrollable monster, or other extreme emergency makes sense. It is a corporate ship, the crew should not be preemptively killing its members or chopping up their brains. Lethal force, or throwing people out the boat which is essentially what marooning is, should be reserved for overwhelming situations or as said, situations where there is no other option to ensure the safety of the crew and ship. Security is expected to roleplay with the antag just as much as the other way around. That burden of playing along, yes and, and roleplay is on every player on the server. doubly so if your interacting with the antag. We as a community place a magnifying glass on the antag, but that scrutiny needs to apply just as much to those interacting with them and driving the story with them. Our current trend of antags getting borged right after capture, or thrown off the ship doesn't build an atmosphere conductive to roleplay.

I think that's fine though. If a vampire is able to accumulate that much blood, their reward is being able to make much greater use of that blood. The crew has a counterplay to a juiced up vampire, which is numbers, weapons, and teamwork.

I played that round but my take away was less veil walk was broken and more we just kinda got styled on as a team by shaw. Shaw had oodles and boodles of blood which tilted things in their favor. and IDK if you could do a cool down that is like.. a second per tile traveled

an excellent Roleplayer. And a great concept for a cat I think +1 from me

I think we're over complicating this. Just having a hand wave of "there's some goobers down there for security and maintenance, who are they? doesn't really matter" I think works well. because pretty much everything else is gonna bring up questions And on player characters just have a simple guideline. You can claim you've worked below decks as a hand wave for being gone or development or so on. But nothing heroic, or of major substance. IE "Yeah I picked up a few shifts doing appliance repair thats why I havn't been around lately" as acceptable and "I killed four SFA pirates and saved someone from a burning apartment" not so much

yeah I think people shouldn't be able to claim action or heroics in a cannon round from Residential unless otherwise specified, on the existence of if there is departments below decks. I mean I dont use the relay but I've used it as an off handed excuse for some characters as to where they've been during long times "Oh yeah I've been fixing some stuff on residential deck" or such. I don't think that's harmful. But I think the rule should be any heroics or actions of note have to occur in round, in game, on the work deck.

reiterating my previous support from the last application for Unlicto's ability as a role-player. It's excellent and my experience with their characters is they are deeply written, and interesting to interact with.

I'll agree with Tomkiel to the degree of establishing "the horizon meets supply ships from the SCC every once in awhile, which cycle crew, and bring aboard heavy equipment or supplies that can't be easily bought out in the field". But establishing they come only semi often. Enough to establish a way for new people to come and others to leave, but also not something you can really IC "rely on" to help you. like yeah the supply ship might be a few days or a week behind you, but its a freighter that can't exactly save you if your hijacked or burn down

I think this would be a negative addition to the lore. Currently the Horizon often in a way being "on its own" is an excellent narrative device. The ship's crew has to live and die by its own decisions, and can't just wait for the SCC to come bail them out. On the Aurora we lacked that tension, central is a short shuttle ride away. Escape, Rescue, or Support was a call away and we never felt in "real" danger or risk, with many gimmicks or events needing to come up with an excuse for why Odin couldn't just come bail us out. I think adding in a security convoy lagging behind will pull the rug out from that narrative. Much like it did on the Aurora station. Why should I be scared of hijackers coming to take the ship, the support fleet will just fly to us in a day or two. Why should I IC be afraid the ship took critical damage or a major fire, the repair ship can be with us in a day or two. If we need a lore explanation of how does the Horizon get support in the field I think it should either be a handwave of the SCC just pays local entities to help us, give repairs, or resupply us. Or if we want something more tangible. throw a 100k more cash in the vault and say its for paying for repairs and supplies. On developing characters. I think having that "oh and they're on the Odin for abit" sort of building or such is just something we loose by having a mobile ship. Which I think is a reasonable trade off. If people really want an IC excuse for why they're new, or havn't been around. Can just say been on different shifts, or came aboard at a recent supply stop

I'd be against a crew bunker. I've played on a server in the past that had salerooms for crew. and what it turned into is "code red get in the safe room" which wasn't that engaging to most people. As well made it more difficult for antags as the only people out roaming where Sec/med/engineering. Making it harder to take hostages, or engage with the crew. Having to figure out on the fly where to hunker down or hide and get the needed supplies I think is gameplay and RP. on the event itself. I only played the first one as CE. and gotta say I loved it, being able to do large scale damage control was a treat as engineering

I agree it shouldn't gib. just blast em with burn damage to a lethal amount. turn em into a potato chip.

Ublicto is an excellent role player.