Skull132

Lemme know if it's lifted or not, once you get time to test it.

This is quite possibly adminbot being Hitler again. Will look into it and see how far this tree goes.

We'll see, I'll track it. If it gains traction, I might send BOREALIS over there as well. Maybe. Declassifying admin tech and all.

I wonder, which would get used more. The player discord chat, or our TS3?

Welp, this topic is about to shit itself. Get back on target, instead of flinging around insults and undermining people, okay? Okay.

Amuse me, TF. And see if you're able to track what I've been tracking for years, now. People take extreme liberty with lore, aye? We were able to gather enough points to prove that in the "You vs the Lore Team" shit that went down about half a year ago. Your character was atypical as far as the written lore eas concerned. This is an objective assessment. Now, what do we do with this assessment? Do we just batten down our hatches and start chewing out people and players who stray from the lore as it's written, ooor...? Or do we roll with it, and play with it. A lot of the times, the players prefer simpler solutions. Freedom, liberal views. Okay, that's fine. But don't you think it'd be a little dull if we just went along with it? What you point out is a lack of room for depth in the lore. I say, this depth is added by the players playing atypical characters. (Obviously within reason.) Let's use the IPCs as an example. AIs in our universe have done completely horrible fucking shit. And are thus, as far as majority of the lore goes, despised. But on station, it's a complete opposite situation. Syths are personalized as humans would be. Let's say I wanted to play a character who hates synths. Were the lore a 1:1 representation of player actions, I would literally have no excuse to ICly hate synths. But, hey, I do! And I can confront IPC players with it,and create conflict, and thus RP! That's the present lore-player relationship I see. It's been like this for a shit long time, and despite a few mistakes, it's worked.

That's the fucking thing that people don't get. This change does not stop you from playing those Tajarans. It simply clarifies what the Tajaran culture in general thinks of such matters. Seriously. Understand this. Because the players take extreme fucking liberty with lore, the lore has adjusted to be very strict. The lore adds the strict standard, and the players add the abnormal cases. (Though, this isn't even strict. Please quote me a line where it says, implies, or otherwise commands that players are not allowed to play non-heterosexual Tajarans.)

Relatively hard to speak like this. Especially for native speakers. What's more interesting, the style of speech requires grammatical flaws to sound proper. First sentence: flawed, not a complete sentence, sounds fitting. Second sentence: not flawed, does not sound fitting. At least, not to me. Fits style, however. Pattern of speech also requires knowledge of subject matter. Very hard to summarize a subject without a full understanding. Also very heavy and specific on pauses. Though, this is not specifically required. I enjoy it.

It's fine, we can fetch logs and reasons as necessary. Though, if you still want to. Go to the full reply editor, and at the bottom, click "Upload Attachment."

Ban has been lifted. Dreviore, the recognition of that fact is why I opted to lift it right meow. However. Call outs like that, almost always regardless of context, are things that we have a very effectively policy of, "No, please do not. Ever." This is mostly because trying to pick through the context if stuff like this were permitted would get real silly real fast. Would also lead to mountains upon mountains of silly arguments. So, either permit it all, or just don't. Since 99% of the time, call-outs like that do not serve a valid purpose in Roleplay, we opted for the approach that you see now. Basically: don't imply rape or ERP in a manner like above.

You don't need phoron for a good engineering setup, though it looks like we'll end up calling each other metagamer and minmaxer if we continue with this. Ideally, you'd have an atmospheric technician present to give you these gasses as you need them. Hey, you know, teamwork! Obviously, deadhour can stifle this, but such stifling is spread all across the board. You simply deal with it as necessary, instead of requesting that livehour be molded after deadhour. Aaand you don't have to, because the regs are built up under the expectation that the Exodus has a full compliment. This includes atmospheric technicians to service your requests. And this goes to prove why we actually need atmospheric techs. Most of them actually know better than what you explained, and those skills should not be made moot or irrelevant. The role has a purpose: to properly fix atmospheric issues. What you described is not properly fixing atmospheric issues, ergo, atmos techs are needed. Literally doesn't address my point. Yes, you could do all of this yourself. But you aren't a trained individual in atmos, so your toolset for managing it should be very lacking. Get an actual tech to fix the issue, hooyah. Not every engineer is a chief engineer, first and foremost. Secondly, it is a misconception that all heads of staff must be amazing and know everything about all jobs under their purview. No. The job of a leader is to know what specific people under their purview are useful for, to have a working familiarity with all of such roles, and that's it. You need enough to understand where and how to apply your staff, but you don't need to know the exact mathematics of mole calculation and chemistry to be a CE. (Which an atmos tech would know.) And leaving the atmos tech/engineer situation be how it is atm affects this example, how? You can still do it right now. It is here where I, and the rules, will have to disagree with you. To have a character that knows how to do everything forever in an expansive department is ridiculous, from an RP standard. There are limitations placed on this. While an engineer may very well know how the wrenching in of pipes and shit works, they should not be able to just figure out the advanced end of atmospherics and gas manipulation. I have little intention of going along with this argument. It will lead to a very stupid end, as the same argument could be applied to a myriad of jobs. Then, we would end with a glorious mess of super-jobs, and literally any standard about character knowledge and so forth would be going bye-bye. Here's a thought, if the issue is as constant as you describe it, why not play atmos tech yourself? Surely there are enough engineers then to keep you busy. While I would love to rely on the good will of the playerbase, I have learned that you need mechanical restrictions in place to get the point across. Even if the "rules" enforced by these mechanical restrictions aren't broken with malicious intent, they will still be broken if those restrictions are lifted. While I point out regulation breaches as they come and go, I do it with the intention of making you see the value of teamwork, and to also point out the potential for conflict. Every violation is another IC decision of, "Do I want to risk my job for these people..?" And may, in certain cases, end up being the lynchpin for a good moment of RP. I don't really intend to stop them (At least, not at present), but I also don't intend to enable them further. I like the status quo. You can setup SM with N2 just fine. Seriously. It works, I've led many players through setting it up and watched it for rounds that last over 3 hours. N2 works just fine, and you have basic access to 6 canisters of it, without any illegal access.

As another note for consideration, the idea that having been oppressed in the past suddenly makes an entire people more ambivalent towards sexuality is flat out wrong, unfortunately. I live in Estonia, a country which has only enjoyed its freedom for a relatively scant 2.something decades. Before that, the USSR was a thing, then the Germans (shortly), then the Russian Federation, then a myriad of other nations to include the Swedes, Danes, whoever. Bottom line is: we're a culture that you folks are referencing. While it is true that while judging people, we tend to judge them based on their work (with a good majority of our national songs, hymns, poems, etcetera centering around agrarian work), we can also be very homophobic and even racist. Examples of this are the protests that were held last year around a set of laws making marriage for homosexual couples a legally set thing, and the racism and bile that's being spouted over the refugee crisis. So, no, having been oppressed does not make a culture more open minded towards sexuality, or any other aspect of humanity upon which we could potentially discriminate you. Please stop saying that it does.

As someone who doesn't actively read the lore, but instead deals with it through the virtue of dealing with character complaints around the lore, I was already under the impression that whatever a Tajaran was into, sexually, was a private matter due to their conservative holdings. So it isn't a stretch to see why non-heterosexual relationships would be seen as unwanted. What's also interesting is that everyone who seems to be fine with this thing is able to actually reference points of the Tajaran culture and lore in order to explain the point. The rest are failing to do this, and instead fall back on their personal perception of how it should be. As such, I am left to believe that the change is completely fine, and makes the Tajaran lore more cohesive. Also, to TF. Your point is mostly misplaced, I find. The fact that Tajaran, Unathi, and Skrell exist as species pretty much railroads us into mirroring certain aspects of humanity to a greater or smaller degree, and amplifying those aspects to give the species an identity. I consider this a flaw in the general design of the species in question. The only real way to solve it would be to remove all three, but I don't expect that debate to end well.

No. Because now you're issuing an order which directly contradicts SOP. The earlier discussion hung on the fact that the code blue announcement only lifts the requirements from space law, but does not change the manner in which the chain of command works. To replicate the conflict with code green and suit sensors with the code blue and searches situation, you'd have to specifically say, "The restrictions applied by space law to searches are still enforced," instead of simply saying, "No, you can't execute searches at all for reason X." The former is in contradiction of SOP, the latter is not.

Please address my points as well, once you have time. In the mean time, allow me to address yours. This is because the individual mechanics for these sub-categories are not expansive enough to warrant a full job. Picking phoron research as a full role, and having very specific access reqs applied to you, would make the game completely unplayable as one. The same thing would apply to medical doctor/surgeon/virologist, though slightly less so. The basic idea is: jobs centered around one singular IC mechanic are not a good way to go. Though you make it appear that this is the case with Atmospheric Technicians, it is not. Both engineers and atmospherics technicians have enough mechanical play room to keep themselves going for hours. In fact, if people actually communicated with atmospherics technicians (most specifically, if the engineers did so), then there would be enough mechanical issues for both jobs to do their thing and feel satisfied at the end of the day. This argument is irrelevant to the conversation. If I wanted to, I could do (and have done) all of science as a scientist. To include robotics. If I wanted to, I could do all of medical as a medical doctor. If I wanted to, I could do all of sec as a security officer. Your argument boils down to, "They can already hack into places, so we should give them access anyways." Which would basically encourage powergaming. And a note about "adding options". Does it add options to the role? In the short term, yes. However, in the long run, the mentality with which you approach this issue would remove the majority of substance from conflicts. Restricted access, the requirement for teamwork and communication, and all of the rest which is attached to such segregation is a very good way to generate IC conflict, both positive and negative. It generates and fosters roleplay. Instead of simply walking into atmos, taking what you need, and walking off, you're right now forced to either confront and deal with an atmospheric technician or the CE; or choose to break the IC regs, break into atmos, and then deal with sec as they hunt and find you. This roleplay value would be completely lost, were the entire department rolled into one job.

I don't understand this part. As an engineer, am i not allowed to pull out a crowbar defend myself if someone tries to murder me? i'd like more explanation for this Point one, "Investigated", not "punished". Secondly, while you are allowed to protect yourself, it is still expected you roleplay the character properly. What this means that you shouldn't be seeking to kill the target. If you can run the fuck away as an individual not trained in combat, you should. You should also not actively seek confrontation with someone known to be armed. And if it does come down to fighting, you should be looking to get distance between yourself and the attacker ASAP, instead of, say, killing them.

Simple answer is: if folks of equal rank are trying to kill each other, just try to separate them with non-harmful means. If someone is trying to kill a head of staff, then you can use more force to resolve it. Ideally, you'd try non-lethal means first, and escalate as necessary. Though, technically, full on lethal force is permitted in situations where the final clause is relevant. The same clause bolded above applies to the serve law as well. Since the Captain is the highest authority on the station, normally, and because opening the doors and letting the fire spread would endanger more crew, the most optimal result comes from simply bolting the doors. Both laws are appeased (as you follow the order, and you protect as much of the crew as possible).

This is not only a violation of IC regs, but it's also bad, because you don't need into atmos to set up the engine. All the gas you could ever need for a functional engine setup is in Engineering Hard Storage, through the Engineering Workshop. Anything beyond that is advanced setup, and would require interdepartmental (in this case, intradepartmental) cooperation. Which you are pleasantly sidestepping because hackerMcGoo. Fixing air alarms is not done through fixing breaches, though. You fix the hull, and then you repressurize the place. It's the latter which is the purview of the atmospheric technician. An engineer with an air tank should be the last resort to repressurization, with the first being an actually knowledgeable atmospherics technician using air pumps and the preset atmospherics systems. Large scale breaches usually come with destroyed piping, which needs to be fixed by an atmospheric technician while the engineers fix the flooring and walls and electronics. Except, fixing large breaches is the job of an entire team. And even with small breaches that vent a place, you need to have an atmospheric technician with you if stuff's damaged beyond the point of, "Imma just open this door and let it fix itself." Ya, sure. You could say that your engineer is trained in electronics, construction, engine setup, and advanced atmospherics. But at that point, seriously, you're powergaming. Which is not only a violation of the rules themselves, but also comes with a side of bad roleplay thrown in there. Then the admins would simply enforce IC knowledge more heavily on engineers. "So you know how to fix holes, the power, and set up atmos? Okay, warning for you for failing to adhere to character creation standards." It would also be a move to kill cooperation and overcoming difficulty through cooperation -- something which I am, on principle, against. Completely and utterly.

The only thing that seems to be not working about the flamethrower is the fact that you cannot light it. Otherwise, since fuel fires work, it should work just fine. I'll try to look into it once I have time.

Depends on if the order is attempting to override the law or not. I'll leave this one open. If the order is outright attempting to override a law, then the order is not valid. If the order is phrased in a manner where it doesn't require you to outright disobey a law, then it would be valid, and would force a null resolution. Or find a solution which appeases both laws.

I'll look into lifting the ban tomorrow, unless any other staff members have objections. Though, note. Going over the line again with this rule will end in a permanent ban.

Rule violated in question: It went beyond the line with a rule where going beyond the line is not acceptable. While we accept the fact that insults and whatever the shit exist in the context of IC; this is dumb, immature, and does not belong here. The round delay had already lasted for 4+ minutes, so the ban was issued relatively swiftly.

Okay, so you missed my entire point on how the work required would be pretty much the same. Tracking. Please do read the posts again. On a tangential note: importing androids would take less time, as they are built on the same frame as our current code is. Shells use much older, and much more snowflake code systems which I would have refractored (reviewed and recoded with the goal of generalization and standardization), before letting the Shells pass. Beyond what I'm about to address below, you have yet to point out anything else that would be removed from the game by using Android code for our purposes, instead of Shell code. This can be added, naturally. Anything can be added. And since the pre-existing systems exist in Android code as well, (the capacity to add custom tails, horns, whatever), it should not be exorbently difficult. And those can be maintained, no? Whether lore refers to these androids as Shells, magicians, or cupcakes is irrelevant to me as a coder. If we did go with androids, they would be integrated, quite smoothly I imagine, back into the lore as Shells, or whatever else the folks feel like having them.

@everyone Saying that we're somehow losing Shells. Please go over this post in specific: http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=5289#p52897 And tell me what about this does not match the old description of the Shells :l Cause what I'm seeing is literally a leaner, cleaner, better (code wise) alternative with exactly the same substance. And my present plan is to literally port it, and restrict it to Shell whitelist.

>7.62 >Galil Pick one.