dessysalta

See title! I've been meaning to make this thread for awhile, I dunno if it'll take off or if anyone will use it, but similarly for awhile I've wanted a place to ask for people who want to make duo/trio/etc. groups of characters that know each other or are otherwise related (be they siblings, unathi clanmates, Z.I.s/IRUs/other corporate robots in a line, diona split from a larger mass, or whatever else) without getting run over in say, general/OOC. Ask here, coordinate here, do whatever. I figure a "I'd like to make [x duo/etc] with [xyz traits/gimmick]" is probably how most conversations will go. Anyways does someone wanna make a Zavod handler for my ZI Nietzschka 🥺

Rookie is an amazing roleplayer who has a wonderful understanding of depth and all that goes into making a real, thinking, feeling person out here in the Spur. I'd give him the whitelist if he asked, but seeing as he made an application you might as well grade it for funsies (hint: it's really good). +1

Bunkers have the go-ahead from both human and synth lore "so long as they don't have admin-tier stats". A gear crate for Ceres' Lance is on the table, too, but that's out of scope here and I just figured I'd mention it.

Hunter-Killer rigs are designed for/can only be used by the specific Purpose entity, the chassis of which are admin-spawn only, per synth lore here. That said, synth lore (at the time) also said they could potentially be toned down. The former of those two links also has the original Hepht H-K chassis sprites, whether or not that's useful is up to you. Edit: Could you also add the knockoff NT variant of the breacher?

I generally would like to see hardsuits in use more often. Empty hardsuits aren't that powerful and I'd like to see people parading around in them. Also, their modularity here could probably be offset by the cost of worthwhile modules (that and not all hardsuits accept the same ones; speaking of, to the person who came up with the mechanics examine thing, add that to hardsuit modules pls).

I think that what i suggested about borers can be a decent enough rebuttal to this, though I generally agree that it doesn't really make much sense. Either way, I could see there be either a special system for synthetic absorption or at least some kind of handwave (maybe they're absorbing their databanks/the emotions and memories tied to the parts themselves?). Turning into metal is still in-bounds methinks because The Thing could copy clothing and that definitely included some metal things. Or we could just make it so they can't absorb but can still copy the appearance of synths. I dunno, I think it could work with some justification. I think these gamemodes have good use cases if arguably niche and reliant on buildup and crew interaction. Though more honestly, yeah, they're very old and underwhelming; good gimmicks for both of them I feel are a rarity compared to how often I actually see them. They tend to result in very "I am a God"-based gimmicks, and having that every single time is unideal. However, I don't think that's cause to neglect something that could otherwise develop them for the better. A full rework of both (or at least vampires) would be ideal, but would be fairly large undertakings by the dev team when they currently have a lot more to worry about. That said, the idea has been discussed before, although to not much depth. I've however seen people suggest left and right that vampire would be better off with power selections and clans a la Vampire: The Masquerade, and I agree with those vehemently. If it ever does roll around, we could rework it so IPCs have a niche within it. Last idea: if these would be impossible, how about we just come up with a couple similar, but not 1:1 antagonists that are considered as part of the same group? Say instead of Vampire it's called Bloodfeast, or some other weird name. If you're readied up for Bloodfeast as a human, you get vampire. If you're readied up for Bloodfeast as an IPC, you get vamIPCre, or whatever the equivalent would be. I'm spitballing, obviously. These would need heavy refining, but some kind of IPC-only antag that hits the broad strokes of and could be played as the antag they're complimenting would be neat.

What it says on the tin. Now, hear me out: I understand (or at least, I figure) that the reason these antags are taken off IPCs are for either balance purposes or coding purposes (seeing as IPCs currently, and very soon will especially behave very different from organics). That said, I think these could allow for some pretty neat gimmick ideas, and ideally with the IPC rework balance won't be as much of a concern (if it even is now). I think that being able to be a V1 ULTRAKILL kind of robot fueled by blood (see also the new biofuel generator in the rework), a horrid mess of meat and wiring or a great imitation of both, a combat-enhanced IPC with highly complex augments (armblades/spiderhead/adrenaline), or a fucked up amalgamation of psionics and technology (which has some amount of precedent with psionic-based pistols in the Federation, unsure what else) are all very barebones and surface level examples of what could be accomplished with it. I know awhile back there was a similar suggestion of turning borers into spiderbots that could infect every species, but it looks like it was locked due to inactivity. If it's worth anything, I'd also like to address what was said in that thread here, in case any similar opinions hold up 5y later. For the sake of readability I'll put it in a spoiler: With a recent thread discussing the idea of making vampire/changeling be an uplink item, I think this feels in-bounds and in-line with what's being said over there. Aurora is already known for it's incredibly free-form gimmicks, so I think we should be extending that to every antagonist instead of barring them arbitrarily. P.S. It's currently 8 AM and I pulled an all nighter, so I'm a little tired when I wrote this. If my points seem bad, imagine I wrote them 10x better, thanks. For real though, I think it'd be cool.

Not sure what to say to this other than I support it. I'd rather it be just as open-ended as most antag stuff. Giving the option for other antagonists like merc to get it only makes it more versatile and relieves admins from some stress. Particularly since mercs can buy 3 (with 4 mercs) or 4 (with 5-6) at most. I think although the abilities both antags get are strong as fuck, we have rules in place for powergaming that'll minimize most of it. I think it could run the risk of being too much given what mercs start with? But I definitely don't see an issue with giving it to operatives and traitors. I really doubt people will be playing souped up vampires/changelings with assault rifles; if it ends up being a concern an OOC blurb or reminder would be nice.

Either to helmets or as gun attachments, please. It's not often, but it happens frequently enough to be annoying whenever I need to go into maintenance or a dark part of the ship telling myself "welp, time to one-hand an AR or find a lantern to slip in my pocket".

Hi, I was the secoff during the latter half of that round. To add onto what Loorey said, acting as security while non-security is reserved for the worst of circumstances, and generally requires a good in-character reason to do so regardless. Situations that aren't mass-cas(ualty) often don't warrant a citizen's arrest unless you have strong reason to believe there's going to be mass-cas in the very near future with no one to stop it—even so, you need to get into the logistics of it. Medical student is presented with a hostage situation, decides to break into the armory or find a gun, go gung-ho around the antagonist to scare them off? Even in a hypothetical scenario where this works and no shots are fired, this is stretching the limit of what a reasonable person would do, particularly one with so much to lose and not a whole lot to gain. Hostages are already a huge bargaining chip that stops normal security from antagonizing them without a well thought-out plan, factoring in power armor and military-grade weaponry and even common sense and it's no contest. When there doesn't exist any security on or off-duty, there's usually slack given in order to interact with the antagonist; this more means you can act with hostility towards them, not that you can gear up past bare essentials (which usually means what's on your person/what a reasonable person would take with them to minimize injury to themselves). Hostages, like the ones mentioned during the round (though I don't have the full story), can organize break outs particularly in severe circumstances like this. I've been spoken to a few times about acting as security in non-security positions, and it really is highly situational. Off-duty Vedhra warrior for hive K'lax, sees horrorform changeling and thinks its Lii'draic? Feel free to engage, but be on the defense more than offense. On-duty bartender with security too busy to handle what might be a vampire? Put down the bat and get some fear RP going on. When red alert is called, that usually means all bets are off and you can assume that things are about to be fucked if they're not already, but still try and wait for guidance from your other crew members, if not a head of staff (and as Loorey said, ahelp to be sure). More OOCly, it's just not a good idea to play the hero as medical, especially if you're the only one in the department. People, including antagonists, rely on you to make sure no one dies or is kept out of the round for too awfully long. This doesn't mean you should be a doormat, but think of a scenario where another non-security character might pick up a weapon, and restrict yourself to something twice that severity before you opt into that kind of play. You'll eventually learn to play it by ear and figure out when it would be reasonable to rush into the defense and blast them to bits, but it's exceedingly rare and needs to be justified up the wazoo before it can be considered.

These armors do a lot. Looking at the raw numbers is kind of a fool's errand unless you've seen them in combat time and time again. It might not seem like much, but using those things against their intended targets makes a ginormous difference, and anything above ~60% is basically negating the vast majority of fights short of being magdumped by 3 people at once—I once dumped ~15-20 5.56 rounds into a guy with ballistic armor, some point blank, only for him to walk his ass to medical and live. Now if my buddies had lasers or swords, would he have wanted the heavy armor instead? Probably, but that sort of gets into why specialized plate carriers are used at all if you're not entirely certain what you're going against. Plate carriers are already fairly decent, the specialized ones' whole purpose is to be used by people/officers who know absolutely-for-sure they're going to be dealing with them exclusively. Otherwise, stick to generalist. The heavy carrier and helmet are purchasable for negligible TC cost and given to several antags (most notably mercs) for free. Security getting two of them when they have 4 (5 counting the warden) officers is plenty when you consider the opposition is going to be at least on par; part of picking your weapon is understanding the matchup and being ready to GTFO or swap if you see a specialized carrier on the field, likewise as a secoff look at the weapons on their person and plan accordingly. If you buff their armor even more you're probably going to end up with more people rushing mindlessly into combat as tanks, when as security especially you should be playing as a team and strategizing, pulling back, and acting with fear for your own life. It's worth considering that security will almost always have homefield advantage of medical, operations, research, command and to a degree engineering; they don't need better armor with the entire crew behind them. That and most secoffs will know when to swap their plates back out long before they get shot to death, if they make a mistake. And part of the reason they aren't stronger, I'm guessing, is because if we gave sec the god armor by default they would never reach out to RnD/the machinist for anything specialized because they wouldn't need it.

What information would they be providing in this instance? It's rare people will talk about every place they've worked just to back up how old they are, and there's enough people who are 20 who act like they're 40 and vice versa, especially online.

I don't know how storage systems work, but would a locker or armory cabinet-adjacent thing that holds exclusively certain kinds of suits and gear be in-bounds? An easier way to grab suits and tanks a la the armory, with expanded storage could help with that sort of thing. That or what Lordnesh suggested, emergency bubbles could see more use.

It's been a minute since I gave my two cents on an app, but I figured I'd chime in here again: Lent is a friend of mine I've known since some of my earlier experiences on Aurora and is a big reason I got into unathi lore in general. They've inspired me to make so many things over the years, from the Zandiziite additions to my baby the Hammertail Smiths. From their characters to their developments as a lore dep, what they do speaks to me and I love their direction, their decisions—everything unathi. When they were accepted as lore deputy I knew it was a matter of time before they'd be accepted as a lore writer. +1. Get in there and do the Hegemon proud you magnificent bastard.

welcome back, taylor morgan

AI art as a system, economically, is cruel. As I said, it is an empirical observation that you would only understand if you attempted real artistry. Past that I refer you back to my point about "don't be a cop if you just want to shoot people" and "you can still participate in the field if you want, just don't use the Torment Nexus to do so" and especially "artists get all sorts of criticism just for existing, if you crumble because people tell you not to use an unethical tool then please don't feel obligated to come back" because the amount of things that you're expected to bounce back from is going to be a lot worse than whatever it is you think we're (as in, the artist community) saying. But, sure, I'm bullying these people out of artistry plain and simple, or something. There's no nuance to it at all, especially not to the thesis material above. I don't care that it's in a niche circle, something I went over in my many points that you appear to have glossed over. These things have impact It doesn't matter if you're a corporate executive or a random schmuck on the street, using AI at all is what makes people think it is profitable. If we all collectively agreed that it was shit and didn't use it then I guarantee you next to no one would use it. That is not up for debate. Plus, reducing Aurora to that and not putting any interest or value on anything or anyone inside of it is very low. I am saying DO NOT USE THE ETHICALLY GREY TOOL THAT MARGINALIZES AN ENTIRE FIELD if you want to do anything creative. So yes, if applying that everywhere means I have to do it as equally on Call of Duty as I do on some cult on an engine from the 90s, then I am absolutely calling those people lazy. Once again, this is not something I'm saying ad hominem or just because I feel like being mean today. This right here shows that you have completely missed the point, and moreover are willing to excuse everything I just said about AI generators just because I made an observation that you don't happen to agree with—which is irrelevant in any case, because I assure you if you ask anyone who performs art as more than a side project (and even most of the people who do) you will hear the exact same things for the exact same reasons. If strong words or calls to action are somehow offensive or cruel to you in such a way that you cannot take any of what's said in the way that it's supposed to be taken, especially in circumstances that more than warrant these kinds of terminology, then you are part of the problem. I am not going to "be nice" or nod my head and pat these people on the shoulders when they are, without exception, funding and furthering a piece of technology which I say again, is aiming to remove me from existence. It has happened before. It will happen again. These are problems that should be dealt with cordially, but with a firm tone of voice, something I am certain I have embodied in my last few statements. I sincerely hope you do more research in the creative field and find people who can better explain to you why AI is inherently a plague.

Off the top of my head, Port Antilla. I know either Vaurca or Diona lore have generated images for a couple teasers in the lorecord before, also. If anyone has any other examples, feel free to chime in. To Lily, I have very strong words to use in your direction because I take offense to what was said, but I will do my best to remain civil for the sake of brevity and because I think there's a disconnect here. Let's break this down piece by piece. To preface, I am not able to force you—or anyone else, for that matter—to take any actions regarding this at all. What you do in private is not my business, and if you were to, say, create a project that involves some close friends in private I would neither judge nor question you. It is not my place, it is not my business, I don't care in confined instances or spaces like that. In fact, I imagine the effect on me or anyone else would be pretty minimal if that were the case. However, this is on the internet. This isn't just any place on the internet, mind you- this is a server that has a large, cult-like playerbase, and up until recently would have about ~100 recurring players with 900 more who would occasionally show up to boot (going off Discord statistics and my own knowledge, at least). The population not withstanding, this is still a public space that advertises itself as such and makes an effort to take in new players as much as possible. This is not "in private" nor does it deserve the benefit of the doubt just because it's a "personal" endeavor; if I endeavored to set up a table and bring my own frozen meals inside of a restaurant I would hopefully be shooed away from the premises for the insult if not the loitering, regardless of if I paid for the drinks. In the circumstances you're using and applying the word "personal" you seem to be conflating the idea of autonomy with the respect for the choices made with it, especially in a setting where others are able (and to a degree have a right) to criticize you. To be clear, I think AI image, sound, etc. generation is extremely novel and is probably one of the coolest advancements of the last decade. It raises the bar technologically speaking and is what garnered a lot of interest for AI inside of other fields, and to your later point, yes, it has inspired people to partake in the creative process. It is without a doubt something incredibly impressive that should be worth celebrating. With that out of the way... The issue begins when you factor in the software again churns meaningless images that have no creative direction. There is no thought, no feeling, no intention behind the process, there is no workshopping, effort, or anything else of the sort. You can say whatever you want about how "refining it takes time", or maybe "using the write prompt can take hours", or even "I want to make something at all", to which I will inevitably shoot back: "Have you tried artistry?" I don't mean monkey-see-monkey-doing artistry, I mean genuinely attempting to compose a song on FL Studio, trying to draw a figure on Medibang, going out to your local Hobby Lobby and making woodcrafts, any of that. If you have, you should understand that it doesn't matter how many "takes" anyone does with artificial intelligence, be that from tweaking prompts, changing poses, designs, whatever, it's never going to hold a candle to the sheer amount of effort and training that's required to just be afloat in the art field as a career. My point of people who generate images like that being lazy is not an opinion, it's an empirical observation. The people who use artificial intelligence to click a button and completely disrespect the artistic medium existentially, threaten livelihoods, contribute to an already steadily-rising power cost and expansion into all sorts of geological areas we probably shouldn't be meddling in just for the sake of "muh anime image" are completely, unequivocally lazy in regards to drawn art. I'm not saying you have to spend art on artists to do anything ever, I'm saying it is a choice and if you choose not to make anything yourself or commission someone else, but rather make use of a software whose entire reason for being nowadays is to undermine and demean the artistic medium, you are a lazy person (at least, you're lazy in that specific field). Worse, you're putting that laziness not into actually becoming a creative, but taking a shortcut that can, will, and has left people out of jobs. The people who do that want all the payoff of art with none of the risk and effort. If they would just go to Walmart and buy a $3 notepad and a $2 pen they would learn faster than they think with one of the countless tutorials online. I am an artist. I would like to do art as a full-time career. I cannot do that if people value me less than a website that makes soulless slop in half a second. It doesn't matter if it's done in a niche circle of 100 people or on display in front of millions by corporations, the harm is still the same, and much like how seeing normal art can inspire people to make it, seeing AI art can inspire people to generate it. After all, it's cheaper, faster, and "close enough" to what they envision in their head. No, we shouldn't turn people off from being entrepreneurs and creatives, in fact I think we should have more of them all of the time and I'm not being facetious. I, obviously, have a great deal of respect for anyone who wants to dip their toes into creation of any kind, be that something physical or mental. I think everyone should be given the resources and acceptance to pursue that kind of career if they want and be able to make a living wage even with a hobbyist mindset. If you want to try any art in any form at all, I am rooting for you, and I will be there with you on your journey if you so wish. If, however, you decide to come into any topics of expertise within that broader field and try to take shortcuts, break ethical guidelines and rules, or especially fund something or someone who will do more of that, I'm not going to defend you and I don't think anyone in their right mind should. If you choose to do as little research as possible, blatantly ignore the many written and verbal warnings from everyone, use a tool that is known to be controversial and then post your creation anywhere thinking you should be immune to criticism just because this is your "first experience with art" then by all means you are not prepared for any kind of creative endeavors due to a fundamental misunderstanding of how and why art is made in the first place. You also need to accept that even with real artists, they're subject to that same kind of gatekeeping and criticism and the mark of an artist is not just mindlessly creating until told to stop, but rather being able to push back against conflicts and continue creating even when you're told or called many vile things just for picking up a pencil in the first place. Art is reliant on emotion and thought. It literally could not exist without it. If your sole goal is to make an image that looks like something you thought of, then you are not making art. Even the most diehard pro artists who don't get out of bed for less than ten grand a piece are still influenced by their experiences, all of what they've seen and everything they've ever felt. You, and I cannot stress this enough, cannot be an artist if you do not have a drive to actually create something with thought and feeling behind it. I'm not gatekeeping art—a stick figure or a single stroke of crayon has thought and feeling behind it. Pressing a button to put a bunch of pixels on the screen that looks vaguely like a person or place does not. If you crumble just for being told to put in effort into creating something or to at least value the people who do, then I wouldn't be the first and only person to say you shouldn't explore that medium for the sake of everyone involved's sanity. If you just want to shoot people, don't be surprised if people tell you that you shouldn't become a cop. But even this argument relies on the idea that other people, or more specifically my post above suggest that if you make AI art you just shouldn't create ever. That is never what has been said. If someone has said that I assure you it's a generalized statement that has very obvious subtext, whose core is not exiling these people from art just for some instance of laziness. I don't agree with generalizations like that, but I disagree with people who fail to understand that with much more vehemence. It has always been do not use AI art to create something when you have so many other options available. I disagree with people who can't be constructive, but at the same time we should be coming together to understand what's meant over what's actually said. Once again, if you take "do not use this tool that threatens my field and hurts me fundamentally as a person trying to earn a living wage in a profession I love" as some mythical barrier to prevent anyone from ever dipping their toes into artistry, you don't belong in that field. Even so, don't let that stop you from trying to be in the field, just don't use the Torment Nexus in order to exist within it. I am begging you. I am absolutely within my right to make these assumptions regardless of whether or not it's an over-generalization, which it very much is not. Hell, corporations aren't doing it from a purely soulless place aside from maximizing profits, and I'm still going to do it to them because it's close enough that splitting hairs over what remains a very real issue is pointless. I lack the physical skill to create some art pieces. I am barely alright at shading, I can hardly do satisfying line art, I don't even have a tablet and I'm horrible with levels. That frustration and inability is what pushed me to keep trying. I have filled countless sketchbooks and will fill so many more because I know what I want to reach and I'm not there yet, and I probably never will be. That is the human condition in every single profession taken seriously. My inability to code didn't stop me from submitting PRs, I either asked for help or did what little I needed to. At a point I was curious about cooking and wanted to try making something myself, and I did, and it was delicious for my family and I. I'm not even in art school, but I'm going to be very soon and that is because I am inadequate. People who care about art don't care that they're bad at it at first...well, people who care about any profession don't. If you're referring to disabilities, I definitely do sympathize and I would never, ever suggest that someone's involuntary inability should be limited from art. In line with that, there are many routes for physically disabled or incapable people to pursue art, such that suggesting they should reduce themselves to a piece of technology that just does it for them is more of an insult than telling them not to try in the first place. The majority of people with disabilities who ask for accessibility options aren't asking for their hands to be held but rather a way to perform at least somewhat on par with the average joe. Those people don't need to be more infantilized and marginalized than they already are. This is the bare minimum. This has been the bare minimum for years until this tech suddenly popped up out of nowhere, Going back to my police officer analogy, not shooting people willy nilly was also the bare minimum and we didn't learn anything from shooting everyone, and the people who did still did plenty of harm in shooting people in the first place. See my point about burning people off creative exploration for more on this, I guess. What do you mean it's not fair? It's not fair for my and anyone else's work to be reduced to a picture, with the argument everyone should be able to get without any difficulty at all. I am just as much entitled to my opinions and observations on something that, contrary to popular belief, is a very real problem. I'm not even being hateful against the people who use it outside of that very specific case of calling them lazy and the lowest of the creative medium because, I reiterate, they are not creating. That just isn't what's going on. I say again: If you come into an artist's field of expertise and you make 2 grand a month on Patreon just because you put together a half-baked tech demo that uses exclusively AI art (something I have seen multiple times with my own eyes), you are lowering my value as an artist and you are insulting the creative process. No one would consider denigrating you for it because you actually made the character with those tools, and that's still not even in the same vein as hating AI art because A real person with a pulse made the sprites you're using for your character, with the understanding they can and will be used in many other contexts You can actually creatively tune the colors, change the markings, all sorts of things Generally, you're playing dress up. Dress up is art given the customizability and way for people to add new markings or loadout items. You actually put effort into the creation of the character, getting the hair color and gradient just right, wrote the flavor text to accompany it and sifted through the countless loadout items to make sure this was your character. Even if you don't want to pick up a pencil or do pixel art, you didn't resort to AI art and you still made use of any tools at all to make your character. We could argue that putting a bunch of assets together isn't "real" art but I think that would be a silly argument that gatekeeps something that has no business being gatekept, especially given the above points. I do take issue with what you say about "creative input" because you cannot convince me transmogrifying "1boy, male, blonde hair, smirk, smile, red jacket, turtleneck, blue visor, short beard, brown eyes, eyeliner, scarf, toned muscles" into a bunch of colors is anywhere near as soulful or creative as physically making the best character you can with the tools you have, even if it's some random F2P sci-fi roleplay server. Being an asshole is using strong language without reason and thoughtlessly attacking people and not their ideas. I hope my willingness to break down what you've said and neither completely ignore you nor outright insult you speaks to my character of being kind, as well as my previous wording in the massive wall of text that precedes this.