dessysalta

^ gay baby jail

Fair enough, but you could argue that marooning and borging are both permanent solutions that don't really leave any "residue" except for maybe the corpse in the latter case. Wiping still has the positronic and general idea of the "person" there but none of the fundamentals or experience. Mostly an OOC thing from what I can gather. It's not given directly to antagonists nor is it in the uplink because using it on anyone else for a gimmick basically forces their hand to comply and be part of your gimmick as a slave whether they want to or not, whereas with other methods you have a fighting chance (words from admins, not me). As for non-antags, wiping isn't usually performed by machinists on-ship, rather specialists or authorities (don't quote me on that, I'm going off a vaguely related lore question from ~half a year ago). For both things I quoted, Zavod IPCs get wiped all the time by their handlers when people who play them remember that's actually a common occurrence unless you're literally Zavod IPC Jesus to your handler so I guess you could make the argument there, but their handlers aren't machinists and most other IPC players don't wipe their IPCs regularly. The suspension of disbelief starts to fall apart when only one IPC (non-Zavodskoi and Konyanger at that) gets wiped within the last year and I dunno if it was up to the player or not (Yihwa-13, OM IIRC).

Come to think of it, why would there even be a wiper on-ship where the masses can get at it (yes I count the RD as "the masses")? Machinists can't perform wiping (at least that's what I've gathered), the RD doesn't and probably can't do it, the OM wouldn't even if they had it and it's not like security or command can call for it (I mean, I guess the captain could, but captains are given just an insane amount of power ICly and IMHO we shouldn't be adding "literally be able to erase someone's memory on an order" to that list). Was there a point in time it was actually used and relevant ICly outside of antag events?

the yapper

This ship has sailed for me personally because it's devolved into more of the samey faction RP that inundates practically every single roleplay server known to man because they struggle to create conflict outside of "this group hates this other group 99% of the time just because they're this other group". Tajaran and human politics suffer enough from "you're not part of my group, eat shit" and frankly if there could be a new server setting wherein you have at least one less faction-based conflict I would tackle it. A lot of this stems from seeing post-apocalyptic, sci fi, and super hero roleplay servers on Discord use this as a scapegoat for every single event outside of the token single "uh oh, there's a bigger bad" that's instantly defeated and then it's back to hating each other 24/7. I'm being extremely hyperbolic, I tend not to notice it nowadays short of having a few of my characters badmouth Idris consistently, but for real, having less of the same type of conflict but in a different coat of paint would be nice. Dreamy was onto something by suggesting that mob justice can be a thing, and the general idea that more "out there" characters who align themselves with and/or have served a problematic faction or group can exist. Being on the "we work for LITERALLY ANYONE at ANY TIME" ship would deter too much "you're not my group, I hate you" nonsense anyways. This also doesn't mean you can't play a superb corpo rep on the Hedgemaze. An ex-NT, pro-corpo, pro-capitalism doctor might actually be more fun to see on the Hedgemaze rather than the Horizon at least for a little bit given how often we see them nowadays (and it's in the already super-corporate ship, it's not really surprising or charming after a while).

Disclaimer: I like this a lot and would really like to see something come from it in the long run. Part of what makes Aurora have weight and feeling is messing with the giant megacorp whose ship you're working on has real value and consequences to it in and outside of the dystopia itself, but I feel that can be a double-edged sword because the argument of "it's a corporate dystopia" tends to get old very quickly (my personal feelings aside, I've noticed a lot of gimmicks go down the drain because this kind of logic is applied arbitrarily; back when discussion of characters being awarded ICly and general character-canonicity was of note, I mentioned how it's strange you can't play a former League affiliate or member but you can play an IPC that was at one point owned by the SRF, as shown by Gauze if I recall correctly) and there's a limit to what is allowed, and when, on both sides of the player-staff groups when everything has to do with being on the single-most important ship in the Spur. As well, off-ships, that is to say any ship that isn't the Horizon or its sibling ships themselves, have fallen into this "dubiously canon" category where anything done on those ships is heavily scrutinized by virtue of not being on the "main" ship where "real" stuff happens. That said, working on the Horizon, once you've gotten past the initial charm of a new setting to devote yourself to, has a lot going for it and there are many, many factors that each player and character and frankly department or larger group/clique (IC and OOC) have to keep in mind and flow with or around. If I could summarize the Horizon in one word it would be "conflicting" because there's just so many people from so many groups with so many different avenues and positions to react to or within as well as the blatantly-speciesist, self-centered, politically active and greedy Conglomerate. If that setting is suddenly flipped on its head i.e. there is no real "deterrent" outside of keeping your boss, their boss, and whatever group the Hedgemaze is contracting for that day/month/etc happy, then it could very well run the risk of not just encouraging meaningful characters with grating aspects to them, but instead unrealistic, self-righteous and unpunished people who will, at worst, cause a giant issue administratively ("can I play my 5-time terrorist from the DPRA who thinks IPCs are hot?") and create so much conflict that it becomes untenable and players can't bounce off of one another. Obviously at best it'll open up the floodgates to seeing certain underling groups that otherwise would never ever have a chance on the Horizon be represented on another actually canon ship and in turn have a shitton of more interesting avenues and items associated with them; but plan for the worst, hope for the best. The first thing this setting will promote (which I'm all for, frankly) is the creation of characters with even less of a filter or limit; this means just like you said, more Samaritans, queenless, convicts, anti-corporates, terrorists, Exclusionists, ex-successor state members, Universalists, and much more. However, the problem stems from managing these groups in a cohesive and reasonable manner. Self-antagonism would rise a lot and there would need to be failsafes in place both ICly and OOCly to prevent this from happening to a degree that makes it unrealistic or a slog for everyone who isn't part of a given character's group. Of course the initial argument is "doing something extreme here has much less value than if it was on a ship that's politically aligned", but then there would need to be footnotes as to how the Hedgemaze operates and if it's such a big contractor ship whether or not the rest of the political entities of the Spur would recognize it that way. The last concern to come to mind is a fear that with this new freedom to play practically anyone from anywhere it's going to reduce the interactions that these people would otherwise generate on the Horizon. There will be much less scrutiny for being a Universalist or by loudly proclaiming that you think organics suck ass and would totally be part of the Exclusionists if you found yourself on one of their ships, you won't be punished (or at least will be punished to a much lesser degree) for crying for the wanton murder of political or corporate figures or even some people on the ship if you play your cards right. These groups that exist to drive conflict and have real consequences on the Horizon may just be sidelined or even become the norm, therefore reducing their weight and jeopardizing all the themes and risks associated with them. Hammertails, the two big religious groups I keep mentioning, pirates (from everywhere), exiles, not necessarily anti-corporate groups but definitely the extremists that are a part of them. Their conflict wouldn't go away, but it would be molded into something entirely different, which again can either be great and interesting or mediocre and lackluster. Onto the good and my own thoughts: I've talked with a few people on the creation of another server (whether based on/in another server's setting or otherwise) where instead of working for a massive political/corporate entity you're instead working for an independent one. I can't think of any off the top of my head that promote this (Bay is a similar setting to Aurora but more militaristic, Sojourn is working for a colony rather than contracting for various groups, pretty much every single TG downstream that made an HRP variant is the same old station-bound stuff and usually still with an emphasis on Nanotrasen/NanoTrasen, and from what I've seen of the "no no" servers they don't promote setting interaction so much as they do character interaction) except for Shiptest. I recently took a break from Aurora after going through some mental health issues and I tried out Shiptest as part of that break. Holy fuck. It was so much fun. Of course there were still limits and I have my own critique on how their setting handles conflict (that is, it doesn't, generally speaking; the most you can really do is lay claim to a salvage and shoot whomever tries to take it from you, but this is my own experience and I've heard it's not all that) but their setting promotes and engages with concepts and groups would otherwise fall to the wayside if only localized to a distinct one-faction ship. For those unaware, Shiptest lets you "buy" (they're free, don't worry) ships if you have enough playtime to captain them, and each ship is mapped to be part of a certain faction (or independent). You have the New Gorlex Republic, a nation-state established by the now-defunct Gorlex Marauders, who seek to maintain the ceasefire with Nanotrasen and ideally foster relations among foreigners. Then you have the Inteq Risk Management Group, basically their version of the PMCG that operates off a strict hierarchy and was made from ex-Syndie and ex-NT contractors. You have the Gorlex Hardliners, people who still believe in fucking with Nanotrasen despite the ceasefire, or the Pan-Gazena Federation, a large semi-militant entity and government that has their version of Unathi alongside their version of Ethereals, or Nanotrasen ships, or the million subfactions and groups underneath each corporate/political group, or independent ships with a grab-bag of miscreants from literally everywhere. It's all the good stuff about offships with none of the bad. This setting promotes average dudes, but also extremists, those that find themselves in the middle of the climate or completely outside of it. You don't need to worry about being too grating to the rest of the crew because in most instances it won't come up or they'll be on your side anyways. Independents in particular have a huge amount of diversity; I played an ex-pirate standing next to, and working with a retired Colonial Minuteman (basically their version of the police but with more guns). Even on the faction-aligned ships, you can play ex-members or retired members from the other party; I like playing as a Syndicate refugee who would otherwise be dead to rights had they been found by any other entity; but corporate greed still exists, so they can be hired by Nanotrasen, or Inteq, or whatever. Frankly we already see this on Aurora, too, with the freebooter and cargo freighters. I've had some really damn good rounds with ships like that. It doesn't take that much to moderate, but I also realize that's an established server with a whole system for doing those things and revolving around it. All of this is to say that a setting/server/ship that has these qualities and promotes them 24/7 instead of being on uptimes or at the whims of ghost role selection would be cool as fuck and I want to see it.

Pocheto is an awesome roleplayer who makes fun characters and is amazingly able to bounce off gimmicks and other people. She can absolutely rock the command WL. +1

I'm pretty sure this statement is expendable/a cog in the machine/something something War Criminal something something. This message brought to you by the Southern Solarian Military District and Heaven's Devils. This is the 104th, bitch! we clown in this motherfucker! Take your sensitive ass back to the TCFL. Jokes aside, agree with your stances here. Not much else to say other than I welcome new disabilities into play and I'm glad we're revisiting the requirements in general.

I'm late, but as someone who's been on the receiving end of Sparky's roleplay for a little less than a year, I can't but attest to his quality of writing and just how much thought goes into how he writes his characters, moreover how they interact on the setting around them. Guy's good at writing. It's really that simple. +1

Honestly, yeah. I sat on the doc I used to draft this for a few weeks but it still didn't come out how I wanted it to and I don't want to be at odds with staff for my suggestions, let alone over things that have yet to be realized or aren't worth giant bulbous policy changes. I need to apologize to some people in private. I think my behavior here is (and has been) less than stellar and I need a moment to step back before I completely torch the staff team and myself. I read the other responses here and they make sense. I feel that staff can be more open with their processes, but that's the limit of what I think now.

The thread I made had nothing to do with you specifically. I had been drafting it since before this ruling because of an entirely different ruling (see how I mentioned the 2IC complaint). I'm not going to suggest that you're incompetent or in need of a replacement just because I don't get to wear a 2x3 pixel item on my character. I'm sorry for the way I behaved and none of what I said here or anywhere else was meant to be a personal attack against you. I was just upset that the character I had figured was in bounds turns out to not be that (and like I said, the 2IC thread is what prompted the elections and whatnot policy suggestion). I agree with all of your points and have nothing else to add.

Sol and Himeo are openly anti-corporate entities, the former of the two having literally invaded Biesel and shot and killed people. The SSMD seized corporate assets (although it doesn't specify how they did) and protected "their land" from Biesel considering the space used to be owned by Sol. I'd wager to say that Sol has done a lot more anti-corporate and anti-Biesel stuff than the SSMD alone, but here isn't the place to argue. The Wildlands Squadron is also under the PMCG, with flagpatches of the former successor states supplied for the four groups you can openly claim to be a former member of. If this isn't good enough, would an Amapola HOS be allowed to wear anything denoting their former affiliation to the Samaritans? If not, then I don't have anything else but to wait for the ruling on the NSRM/SSRM stuff.

That's a huge part of why I made all of this as a suggestion. I'm not trying to imply there's bad faith on the staff team, but it can be difficult to understand how these conclusions are reached and why they are/aren't continued. The biggest issue is it's a matter of uncommon single-slot roles that you need to apply for and the different animal of moderating something versus creating for and playing on it. I personally haven't applied for staff because it seems like this huge entity where you need to learn so much, so fast, while also handling the nitty gritty that makes the game unfun (plus the amount of players I've talked to who've said words to the effect of "my track record (~3 warnings) is so bad I'd never get a command whitelist/mod position/etc" or "the staff team is out to get players/they make things arbitrarily/expect you to read their mind/whatever else". In order of what you said: - This is fair and I agree for the most part, but in the 2IC XO thread (something I don't want to keep bringing up), despite other devs, CCIA, and lore writers explaining why they disliked the change publicly, their points were shot down, and with that being the only thing the community can see of staff decisions, it felt like a lot of the negative feedback was being ignored. In this instance, I feel it betrays the idea that there are checks and balances with each team, where the optics of it are "Host said no, so it's no". - It would be difficult, but there are instances where decisions made by head staff/devs don't align with what the community or the rest of the teams want. There should be some method of pushing back, and assigning blame to any one individual isn't a good idea. - Strikes in this instance would be a removal from a staff position, not necessarily from the community, unless it's that egregious. Command whitelist players aren't removed from the community permanently for completely overstepping their boundaries even several times, the same logic would apply here. I get that you mean it could pile up to be "5 mistakes out of 995 correct ones means you're no longer staff", but that sort of expectation doesn't exist even for players, even while keeping in mind what I mentioned about staff being held to higher standards. - I'm not suggesting random people be voted in, I'm suggesting the community have a chance to assess whoever's asking for the position prior to it. Even with checks and balances between the branches, senior positions have a lot of authority behind them. My suggestion of having a player-voting system only scratches the surface of what could be done for a process like this. - I agree with you for the most part, but where mistakes are made, it becomes a question of, "should I let this sit and assume they'll improve in the future, or do I voice my opinion about it?" I don't take issue with voicing my complaints here or anywhere else, but I do dislike being barred from opening threads for further discussion about any one thing just because in a single instance some people got heated. I have different amounts of faith in different members of the staff team (which is to be expected, different staff operate in different ways and I'm more or less receptive to them), and I don't always see eye to eye with every developer, CCIA agent, lore writer, whatever. I tried to keep the done as business friendly as possible, but suggestions about how head/staff conduct themselves is almost always going to be prompted by a negative experience or outlook. I didn't want to put a big disclaimer of "I think staff are awesome, actually" because if I didn't already think that I wouldn't be playing.

EDITORS NOTE: A lot of what's suggested here was made with a lot of misdirected anger and self-victimizing behind the scenes. I've since apologized to relevant staff, but this disclaimer is going here because it wouldn't feel right keeping the giant laundry list of how I think staff could be more "inclusive" while also trying to act like I'm their friend, and I don't believe in deleting what I said just because I recognize it was stupid; that's not how taking accountability works. You've been warned, this was made by an upset player in the heat of the moment running off about ~4 hrs of sleep. After a short session of brooding (I admit, some things as of late have had me a bit heated) and reminiscing on things like the 2IC XO thread (and a complaint that it was the subject of), I brought it up to another Aurora friend of mine and they suggested I make a policy suggestion to see how it goes and to gauge how the rest of the community feels. In broad strokes, here's what I'm thinking: I think Head Admins and Devs/Hosts should be elected by the community and not the staff team (or not only the staff team). Complaints should be allowed to be filed towards all of the Headmins/Devs at once, or groups of more than one (if applicable). Votes and re-votes should be allowed without exception. Terms of what will happen or be implemented after votes conclude (especially for high-status changes) must be detailed before the vote goes through to the best of staff's ability. As a final suggestion, staff (admins/devs/etc.) that are the subject of a successful complaint should be on a strike system a la player warnings and infractions. Hoh my god, that's a lot of text, and I apologize for everyone who has to read it, but I had a lot on my mind and thought separating it into more than one post would make me look like an idiot and be total overkill.

pinches her nose and exhales slowly follow for more lukewarm translations

It would be as simple as adding the restrictions present on security uniforms to wildlands flagpatches. In regards to an SSMD affiliate being promoted, I didn't mention it in the post (because she's unavailable), but I asked Read specifically if I could make Kira a HOS after I played her for a year straight with next to no breaks. She said yes, followed up with me after the fact to say yes again, and that was the end of it. Loadout items that can be used openly by anyone, or even just anyone part of a specific faction, should be very clear in telling you who is and isn't allowed to use it if there happens to be actual IC justification for such a thing, which is why role restricted items exist. I bring up again that I had no way of knowing this was a no-go back when Kira took the flagpatch as a warden (and prior to the PR implementing them, I used a custom flagpatch), and with the existence of the above examples of otherwise "hostile" groups' paraphernalia and members being allowed into command, I submit that it's unreasonable to limit this one thing when there are far more egregious cases ICly and OOCly (and how odd it is to not limit wardens, who have a lot of mechanical overlap with the HOS role, but that's neither here nor there). If the loadout item isn't allowed to be used by certain roles or demographics, it should be reflected in code like every other restricted item (see: Imperial outfits, faction gear, augments) or else you run the risk of cases like this where people like me are completely blindsided.

BYOND Key: Dessysalta Staff BYOND Key: MattAtlas Game ID: N/A Reason for complaint: I was told that Kira Vasquez, my HOS, can't wear the SSMD flagpatch she's been wearing for over a year and a half total, and as a HOS for 5 months, because it's "anti-corporate." I don't agree with or understand this ruling because not only did I have no way of knowing this (see: the loadout doesn't restrict it from HOS), but this would imply that the SCC knowingly and charitably promoted an SSMD affiliate and Sol patriot into a command position. It's no secret that Kira is a Solarian-aligned individual and moreover that she's ex-SSMD. She has fought and nearly died countless times for the Conglomerate, in particular she lost an actual leg to the Exclusionists attack and was given enough pay/had enough stockpiled to purchase a vatgrown limb. My SSMD custom item application not withstanding (I get that it's military-adjacent and understand that it's overkill to the Conglomerate), this doesn't make any sense. I think: Sol actively invaded Biesel, and their diplomats are banned from making appearances on the Horizon, plus the animal that is Solarian corporate authority, but their flags and their patches are fine. The SSMD "protected" former Solarian territory and were just as anti-corporate as the rest of Sol. While they engaged Biesellite ships, to these ends I don't think it's unreasonable for a flagpatch of all things to be worn especially where loyalty is not a question; moreover, the SSMD is almost a direct extension of Sol and the SCC is meant to be somewhat politically neutral (for instance, helping Konyang, Moghes, really any place in the Spur that asks, allowing consuls of the DPRA, a nation-state headed by military juntas who execute non-Tajarans openly, allowing Trinarist priests on board, the list goes on) and the idea of banning a symbol that represents a legitimate part of another country's government is compromising that neutrality on a much greater scale (made worse and more bizarre by the fact that it's only command that can't wear it). Biesel is not at war with the Sol Alliance or the SSMD (what is now the SSRM) and has little precedent compared to more radical groups like the League and Front; Szalai was a Solarian officer acting in accordance with the wishes of her government (mostly) and as a somewhat legitimate representative of it. The League and Front were terrorist organizations aiming to overthrow their government. The SCC has members formerly based in Solarian space or that have interests there, Idris and Silversun for example. Restricting the rights of Solarians working for the SCC would endanger those interests especially because the Solarians want to go after them anyways. As long as the symbols don't conflict with their work then why would it be a problem in the first place? Grupo Amapola has a peaked officer cap for the HOS in the loadout despite this particular group having a large amount of, and being founded by Samaritans, widely considered terrorists not only for resisting Biesel, but corporate influence in general (see: the Peacekeeper Mandate and the SCC's goods embargo, not to mention how Mictlan handles corpos generally speaking). If both of these things are allowed (Sol flag/patches and Amapola caps), why isn't an SSMD flagpatch allowed to be worn by a trusted and well-known individual? If Kira was suitable for promotion there should be no reason why she can't display a symbol of her military service that she takes pride in, considering that even if the entity it represents has done "anti-corporate" things it's not being used as an anti-corporate symbol in this context. Solarian patriot ex-military captains and bridge crewmen exist. Ex-Himeans don't have to despise every inch of Himeo to have renounced their citizenship (mine did it because she likes money). I mean, DPRA individuals can be approved to be heads of staff, even if subject to background checks and being fired or charged if they're connected to any radicals—but the SSMD isn't radical in the way that, say, the League is or Sol isn't. The ticket below mentions Himeo and I've mentioned it here, but the SSMD is and was nowhere near the scale of an entire anti-corporate planet I'd argue. It's inconsistent and betrays the idea of complex characters who can be trusted officials without giving up everything they ever held dear that even slightly conflicts with the SCC's principles. Evidence/logs/etc: Ticket contents: Additional remarks: Even if this gets dismissed or is ruled against me, would you settle for NSRM/SSRM flagpatches on account of flags for those two entities being in the works last I checked human lore's channel?

Hell fucking yes.

ATG makes lovable, charming characters with a capacity of understanding that I don't think the average player has. I love what they bring to the table and want to see Hayashi Kuri in command LMAO. Glory to the Tau'ha'nor clan. +1

Tones has an innate understanding of what makes roleplay high and how to write well-meant, interesting characters. From the bar, to medical, to ops, I believe they're next in line for a command promotion. +1