[Resolved] Staff Complaint - Yonnimer

[BurgerBB]

BYOND Key: BurgerBB

Staff BYOND Key: Yonnimer

Game ID: bXD-dpos

Evidence/logs/etc: Everyone will post their say here.

Reason for complaint: "Bad" ruling.

 

Right.

I have nothing against Yonnimer as a person. I have nothing against the people who played antag that round as people. What I do have a problem with is the decisions made by the antags involved and the decision to validate the antag's actions.

So this is my story, as short as possible

I was a chemist. I had to remain in medical because there were no doctors who could watch the suit sensors, and a few amount of people were dying because of shootings, the first one being the gardener. The crew transfer shuttle was called. The SM delaminated for whatever reason, but I don't care about that. I got on the shuttle, in medical. Security set up a checkpoint. 30 seconds before the shuttle was supposed to take off, there was gunfire and laser shots near the checkpoint, including sounds of a laser sword or something. Security retreated to the shuttle.

Next thing that happens, some person decides to throw 2 EMP grenades on the shuttle. They ended up killing an IPC. Fucked over most people's cyborg limbs, including my own. I was a little annoyed because of this, but not enough to warrant a staff complaint or an ahelp by me. Next thing that happened just gave me terminal depression. I don't know who or what, but some person decided that it would be absolutely quality roleplay to start chucking frag grenades on the shuttle security bay. This seriously injured the antag who was arrested beforehand, most of security, a bunch of engineers who were standing around for some reason, and a few medical personal. Worse, it vented the entire shuttle and killed 8 more.

I'm used to suffering from the actions of antag. It comes from being with medical, but this went beyond what should've been acceptable as an antag. I'm "fine" with having my chem lab raided wordlessly. I'm "fine" with having to treat a k'ois outbreak as a single chemist. I'm "fine" with an antag blowing up medical with a fuel tank bomb. What I'm not fine with is antags, without any clear motivation, or for that matter, RP, blowing up the shuttle and killing everyone who is unfortunate enough to not have a dionaea or vaurca whitelist.

However, the person handling it, Yonnimer, was fine with it. It should've been a clear-cut antag ban, or at least, a warning. Not even a note was applied, from what I understand. From what I'm getting from others who are too scared or lazy to make a staff complaint, it was all perfectly escalated because "well security shot first." I find this to be an absolutely terrible ruling, and I don't know who to blame since this sort of decision happens all the time.

If an antag bombs a place with civilians in it, with little to no warning, it's deemed okay despite no RP gained by the victims. It's justified because "They RPed with security/command before hand."

If an antag goes into a bar, whips out a .45 SMG and starts shooting at people, it's deemed okay despite no RP gained by the victims. It's justified because "They RPed with security/command before hand."

If an antag buys an Anti-Material Rifle, starts taking pot shots at security's groin and head, it's deemed okay despite no RP gained by the victims. It's justified because "They RPed with other members of security/command."

This very incident, from what I'm understanding, is justified for the exact same reason. They bombed a shuttle full of people who had no idea of their gimmick (if any) and ended up killing most of them, but it was deemed okay because they interacted with security. It was "escalated." I would be fine with shuttle bombing if there were ways for crew to prevent it. I would be fine with it if this was /tg/station and I could validhunt, or more appropriately, defend myself from valids without getting a bwoink. I would be fine with this if the antags themselves actually put effort into their gimmicks instead of purchasing a box of frag grenades and a box of emp grenades from an ownerless uplink (???).

If the antags involved happen to come across this thread, I would very much like two questions answered if it isn't any trouble.

1. Why did you feel it was necessary to spam frag and EMP towards the shuttle?

2. Where or how did you obtain an ownerless uplink?

3. What was your gimmick or goal?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Coalf

[CommanderXor]

I guess I'll throw in my input since I witnessed parts of the round.

 

I was playing Internal Affairs Agent Hallowed Quill. I was talking to medical when they rushed off to the library, I followed suit while talking to them only to come across a gardener dragging a Cargo Tech and trying to headgib them, who shot at me as well. I fled to robotics to get repairs, all good. I presume there was some escalation. It was the only thing in the entire round that had happened until the two-hour mark. As soon as the shuttle was called, the supermatter instantly delamed. I presume because an antag bombed it or such. I was heading to the elevator when I noticed a Unathi stepped out of science in a voidsuit with an energy glave and lawgiver. I reported it to security and went on my way. Everything is fine and dandy and the shuttle docks and we pile on. I go and make an announcement about everyone boarding neat and orderly, however, I am cut off by smashing glass and the like. I come out of the shuttle cockpit to find security firing on someone with a glave and shield, the Unathi from earlier.

Instantly the shuttle is EMPed and I am nearly killed by the double-grenade. I'm pulled in to the shuttle bridge once more by a roboticist as the antags wordlessly grenade the shuttle and vent it, killing nearly everyone on board. During the flight, they wordlessly start trying to glave their way into the shuttle cockpit but the shuttle docks and some District Officer and CCIA board and put a stop to it. I ahelped it and found that the entire incident had been deemed valid since 'security had interacted with them'. I know this was false as I was with the HoS and security the entire time and nothing had happened until they tried to forcefully take over the shuttle. I think it's absolutely horrible RP for them to wordlessly do nothing all round, and as soon as the shuttle is called, grab weapons, bomb the station and then launch a full-on siege of the shuttle with no build up at all.

[Coalf]

I'll be taking this complaint along with @ShameOnTurtles

@Yonnimer

Edited December 4, 2018 by Coalf

[Yonnimer]

I'll admit off the start that my memory of the round isn't the best.

First thing I wanna mention, the uplink was spawned by a admin, I forgot the reasons why as I was half tabbed in at the time. Just for a quick note on that.

The main conflict on the shuttle was deemed valid by me, as it was part of a ongoing conflict from before the shuttle docking with the main station.  The traitors had a plan to raid the vault, and were supplied by RnD via a traitor lab assistant. This took a bit of the round to setup.  But before they could start the SM blew up from being set up incorrectly. So they made their way to the shuttle, and got into a fight with security once before this. Later the head of security gave orders to fire on them if they wouldn't surrender at the checkpoint, and this started the fighting, which got to the shuttle after a bit. Shots were fired, and grenades were tossed by both sides. Although no civilians were hit at this point besides from the EMPs, as far I was aware. Eventually the shuttle doors closed, and the unathi traitor broke in via a window, and started fighting those who attacked them. I did talk to them a bit about this, as it did kill a few civilians due to the breach, and they did kill a few who attacked them. I deemed it valid due to the conflict that was mentioned here. It seemed their motivation started as a failed hope of getting to the vault, and later turned to going to the shuttle, and trying to get on it with security fighting them.

 

[Pratepresidenten]

On 12/4/2018 at 1:59 AM, BurgerBB said:

2. Where or how did you obtain an ownerless uplink? 

Uplink was spawned in after they fell into space, dropping their own uplink and faffing about for 30-40 minutes. It was an effort to get them back on track so their round wouldnt just be "Do nothing" as I know you hate.

[Coalf]

Alright both me and Shame looked through logs and we found the same conclusive evidence, that a very critical misstep in the investigation was made. Yonni's statement supports this too.

To clarify, there were two antags at round end, the Unathi played by @Vizendel and a Tajara1 played by @ReadThisNamePlz.

The Tajara1 wished to rescue Tajara2 who had a bomb inside them, security refused to let them interact and thus Tajara1 decided to force their way to Tajara2.
At the checkpoint, Tajara1 was approached and aimed at (with a lethal laser rifle) by an officer and told to surrender. Seeing no alternative, Tajara1 began fighting the officer, killing them, the Unathi was present according to the logs as they had created an alliance beforehand.

After this the HoS gives an order to shoot lethally at armed people approaching the shuttle, this is logical. Then an officer tosses a single flashbang, this flashbang hits the Unathi and Tajara1.
At this point, the Unathi buys frag grenades and EMP grenades. Some fire is exchanged and allegedly the Tajara dies/collapses which, the Unathi breaks into the shuttle and frag grenades/EMP grenades begin being tossed. Logs also include a lot of glaiving, attempted disarms, etc.

Here is the issue, the fighting on the shuttle was indeed carried over from the hallway, sure, acceptable, that is included in the rules.
HOWEVER
No ganking. While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. This does not mean that you need to monologue your opponent before killing them: roleplay leading up to a murder can take place over the course of the entire round, for example, leaving the murder scene itself to be “wordless”. Collateral damage is acceptable within reason, but this means you must use common sense, and avoid creating scenarios with a lot of potential for collateral (setting bombs in high-traffic areas, etc.)

This rule is violated via tossing the grenades into a packed, near completely glass shuttle full of Civilians when your goal is to allegedly save someone inside that shuttle. To me, this seems like prioritizing effectivity and DPS.
Both I and ShameOnTurtles read the logs INDIVIDUALLY and concluded this. I decided to also read up on all dialogue said that round from the Unathi and Tajara1 and the intent of the Unathi on why exactly they wanted to help was very paper-thin as there seemed to be zero dialogue about any plan, idea or anything else.

IN SHORT
We have concluded the investigation carried out by @Yonnimer was erroneous.
All relevant parties will be talked to.

Locking and Archiving in 24 hours unless more evidence pops up, however, do bear in mind that all presented above is OBJECTIVE evidence read directly from the logs which include all words, aims, attacks, and grenade priming and hitting.

[Coalf]

Additional comment; the supermatter was fucked up by a player ramming into it as a mouse, he was handled in the round by @Pratepresidenten

[BurgerBB]

I just want to add that they did not DIRECTLY throw grenades into the shuttle, they threw it into the security section, but as evidence by the round that was enough to kill several crewmembers because it vented the shuttle and it EMP'd several people, including the person who was implanted. If RNG was having a bad day, that implant would've exploded and instantly killed several crewmembers.

[Coalf]

Aknowledged.

[Coalf]

Considering as resolved, locking and archiving.