Staff Complaint - Pratepresidenten

[BurgerBB]

BYOND Key: BurgerBB
Staff BYOND Key: Pratepresidenten
Game ID: bZk-dEsn
Reason for complaint: Poor handling of ahelp
Evidence/logs/etc: None provided. Alberyk said to make the complaint for logs.

Right. So I was reminded to make a player complaint by Alberyk after mocking me on discord. Basically I don't think the ahelp I made was professionally handled. I understand mods are volunteers, but good lord it was just infuriating to deal with.

A player (Name was Ned Kazynski) who was clearly new was causing issues in medical, generally being annoying. They were asking for drugs, painkillers, bumping into other doctors trying to treat patients, cleaning ACTIVE crime scenes, taking medicine from medical and putting it elsewhere, drinking bleach, being a nuisance. 

I stated all this, and the response I got was "It's not against the rules to be annoying."

Kinda gave me a bit of a shock considering last round I was told to ahelp someone who pushed me once via disarm. So I tried explaining to them that this behavior is not okay and clearly against the rules for characters. I was pretty pissed off before the ahelp, so I was quite confrontational. I explained everything they did again and they didn't seem to give that much of a care. They asked me if I had any screenshots of this, and I provided them with this.

https://imgur.com/a/m6mjIxA

They then seemed to act a little passive aggressive and give me shit for not directly stating a name, which I apologized for, but they were (at the time of the complaint) the only janitor on the manifest. I mean the player was eventually dealt with, but it should not have took this long and with the attitude given. There were points where I asked for a different admin to handle this, which I regret, but it seemed reasonable at the time considering they weren't very happy in dealing with me and I wasn't happy with dealing with them. There was also a previous ahelp where I was bwoinked for bringing the syringe gun to the main level which was a bit weird.

[AmoryBlaine]

I had a similar run-in with Prate. They didn't seem to think a player who was clearly new, playing an overtly racist character with literally no depth into them at the time, was not worth handling, and then had me break down my own opinion and suggestions for the standard of RP. This player has since wizened up, as I understand, but the point still stands that these sorts need to be directed in the right direction. I honestly thought this was just because the player I had ahelp'd hadn't done anything but annoy everyone over comms, but if he's also not attempting to deal with players acting as the one above, that's totally an issue.

[Garnascus]

Normally i would jump in here and wax philosophical about "WELL THE LINE CAN BE HARD TO DRAW BETWEEN ANNOYING ROLEPLAY AND RULEBREAKING ROLEPLAY". Then i read the log of him drinking space cleaner and.... yeah...  @Pratepresidenten This does seem like a player that should have been spoken too. What are your thoughts on that?

[Pratepresidenten]

The player in question was spoken to, after I had questioned the wrong janitor for some time, as burger failed to follow the rules outlined:

When sending adminhelps, be CLEAR and CONCISE - it makes things a lot easier for us to deal with. Try to include character names if possible. As you very well know, we're having an influx of new players, and that means an influx of problems. Just ahelping This fucking janitor is really getting on my fucking nerves. Is not clear, concise or even remotely helpful in dealing with a possible violation of rules. You outlined four issues in the matter. 1: They're asking for space drugs. Not a crime as the drug is legal, also an IC issue that can be redirected to security if needed. 2: Getting in people's way. This is not against the rules either. Just tell them to get lost. 3: Drinking chemicals. This is an actual issue. 4: Cleaning an active crime scene. Also an IC issue. Now I am sorry for not being verbose in my initial response with you as I was handling 6 or so ahelps at the time, but I did ask in the same sentence what they had been drinking, which you werent all that interested in it seems. I was given the answer "Literal bleach" after some time, which isnt helpful either, until you finally gave me something useful, which was the space cleaner. So at this point, I went barking after the only janitor on scene after you ahelped about it, and I questioned them fruitlessly, which is why I returned for screenshots as I couldnt find any solid issues with them. And what do you know, it was the wrong janitor. So with this new and useful information, I could actually do my job. They were spoken to and asked to shape up, and play a sane, well-rounded character instead of an unrealistic, space cleaner chugging dipshit.

[BurgerBB]

1 hour ago, Pratepresidenten said:

The player in question was spoken to, after I had questioned the wrong janitor for some time, as burger failed to follow the rules outlined:

When sending adminhelps, be CLEAR and CONCISE - it makes things a lot easier for us to deal with. Try to include character names if possible. As you very well know, we're having an influx of new players, and that means an influx of problems. Just ahelping This fucking janitor is really getting on my fucking nerves. Is not clear, concise or even remotely helpful in dealing with a possible violation of rules. You outlined four issues in the matter. 1: They're asking for space drugs. Not a crime as the drug is legal, also an IC issue that can be redirected to security if needed. 2: Getting in people's way. This is not against the rules either. Just tell them to get lost. 3: Drinking chemicals. This is an actual issue. 4: Cleaning an active crime scene. Also an IC issue. Now I am sorry for not being verbose in my initial response with you as I was handling 6 or so ahelps at the time, but I did ask in the same sentence what they had been drinking, which you werent all that interested in it seems. I was given the answer "Literal bleach" after some time, which isnt helpful either, until you finally gave me something useful, which was the space cleaner. So at this point, I went barking after the only janitor on scene after you ahelped about it, and I questioned them fruitlessly, which is why I returned for screenshots as I couldnt find any solid issues with them. And what do you know, it was the wrong janitor. So with this new and useful information, I could actually do my job. They were spoken to and asked to shape up, and play a sane, well-rounded character instead of an unrealistic, space cleaner chugging dipshit.

At the time when, you even admitted, there was only one janitor, unless I misread what you said. It was the only janitor I've seen all shift so I assumed it was the only janitor. I fucked up on my part, but perhaps I'm asking too much when you probably should've asked for clarification. I know I should've been clearer, but if there were two janitors perhaps you should've asked which janitor it was.

Bothering chemistry while chemistry is very hard at work for space drugs because of memes and not roleplay is a pretty huge dick move. It delays the production of vital chemicals and it wastes my time on effort on someone who's only here because they think it's goon and didn't bother to read the rules. I'm fine with new players; I'm just not fine with new players who didn't take 2 seconds to read the first paragraph of the rules and realise this isn't goonstation. They interrupted work. They didn't put effort into typing. They used their Janitor all-access to literally go to the chemistry back counter to bug me, blocking doctors from getting chems, and as I mentioned, taking chems that I left out for other doctors.

They were also bumping into doctors constantly. They were asked to leave several times but they would eventually come back via their Janitor all access. They would also get in the way of treatment and go "r u okay" to those with their head split open while a doctor behind them was trying to fix them. It is also one of the WORST things you can do to a dionaea who needs to get there because you're slowing them down SIGNIFICANTLY more by swapping with them several times. In recent days, I've had to walk around with disarm intent so no one swaps with me, but usually they'd just go on harm intent and push me out of the way or straight up disarm me as Yonnimer witnessed one time.

Cleaning an active crime scene while security is literally around it placing tape everywhere is an OOC issue because realistically a janitor with the amount of disregard for security would never be hired. They were going to be arrested, but Evandorf who was playing HoS at the time stepped in and just gave them a warning, very likely because they were new and didn't want to subject a new player to a timeout and not like the server.

Also I believe you do not remember the series of events correctly. I said they were drinking chemicals, you asked what chemicals. I said bleach, you said "What specifically." and I gave you Space Cleaner. This was all in the span of a few messages. This was not "After quite some time."

Quote

PM to-: This fucking janitor is really getting on my fucking nerves

: [Secondary Admin PM]PratepresidentenWhat they do?

to : PratepresidentenThey're asking for spacedrugs. Getting in people's way. Drinking chemicals.

to : PratepresidentenCleaning an active crime scene.

: [Secondary Admin PM]PratepresidentenNot exactly.. Rulebreaking. Do you know what they've been drinking?

to : Pratepresidenten"Not exactly rulebreaking."

: [Secondary Admin PM]PratepresidentenSpace drugs are legal, cleaning is their job

to : PratepresidentenYes it is my dude. They're playing an incredibly unrealistic character. They're drinking literal bleach.

to : PratepresidentenOkay. I don't think you understand. They were pushing me out of the way while the CMO was injured.

to : PratepresidentenThey were constantly annoying me for prescriptions.

to : PratepresidentenThey annoyed the CMO for prescriptions.

: [Secondary Admin PM]PratepresidentenAnnoying people isnt against the rules. Take a moment here. You said they were drinking bleach? Ammonia?

to : PratepresidentenThey were drinking Space Cleaner.

to : PratepresidentenAnd Going "AHHHHHHHH refreshing."

: [Secondary Admin PM]PratepresidentenNow see, this I can work with

to : PratepresidentenCan I get another admin to look at this?

: [Secondary Admin PM]PratepresidentenNo, you get me.

to : PratepresidentenThe millions of things I just listed you do not warrant the response "Well they're not exactly breaking any rules."

: [Secondary Admin PM]PratepresidentenYou listed three things. Space drugs; Legal. Getting in people's way; You didnt elaborate shit here, which is not a violation in itself. IC issue. Drinking chemicals, which is the sole thing I can work with as you shouldnt drink chemicals.

to : PratepresidentenSpace Lube.

to : PratepresidentenSorry, Space cleaner.

to : PratepresidentenThey were pushing doctors trying to get to treatment. They were trying to clean up active crime scenes.

: [Secondary Admin PM]PratepresidentenYes you said so after I asked about it. So please try to work with me here instead of questioning the validity of my work.

to : PratepresidentenI am working with you. I stated everything that needed to be stated and you took everything at face value.

to : PratepresidentenI would appreciate it if I had someone else.

: [Secondary Admin PM]PratepresidentenDo you have any screenshots of their interactions? The drinking, the space drug pestering?

to : PratepresidentenWhy on earth would I have screenshots on hand? I'll try to scroll up for logs.

: [Secondary Admin PM]PratepresidentenPlease do

When I asked for another admin to deal with this, I was just sick of the situation and sick of how they were handling it. I sensed a little hostility by them too (not to say I wasn't being aggressive either) By contrast, a greytide disarm pushed me once, which I didn't have an issue with, and Yonnimer bwoinked me saying that I should report bad behavior like that before. Another greytider, a cadet who absolutely could not stop drinking phoron soda after being told not to by medical three times and had to treat them for toxins three times, was ahelped by me. Alberyk said that he talked to him about it.

Again, by contrast, a janitor who was drinking bleach for the memes, asking for space drugs without a prescription for the memes, and cleaning blood for the memes, and basically doing everything for the memes got a "Being annoying isn't against the rules."

 

[BurgerBB]

Also those are partial logs. I would very much like access to the full logs because there is a lot more that was said after it.

[Arrow768]

@BurgerBB
Here are the logs of that ahelp:

[2019-03-19 00:28:48.190] ADMIN: HELP: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): This fucking janitor is really getting on my fucking nerves.
[2019-03-19 00:29:06.144] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): What they do?
[2019-03-19 00:29:18.983] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): They're asking for spacedrugs. Getting in people's way. Drinking chemicals.
[2019-03-19 00:29:31.201] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): Cleaning an active crime scene.
[2019-03-19 00:31:39.041] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): Not exactly.. Rulebreaking. Do you know what they've been drinking?
[2019-03-19 00:31:47.248] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): "Not exactly rulebreaking."
[2019-03-19 00:32:09.623] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): Space drugs are legal, cleaning is their job
[2019-03-19 00:32:11.722] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): Yes it is my dude. They're playing an incredibly unrealistic character. They're drinking literal bleach.
[2019-03-19 00:32:26.739] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): Okay. I don't think you understand. They were pushing me out of the way while the CMO was injured.
[2019-03-19 00:32:35.501] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): They were constantly annoying me for prescriptions.
[2019-03-19 00:32:43.474] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): They annoyed the CMO for prescriptions.
[2019-03-19 00:33:08.070] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): Annoying people isnt against the rules. Take a moment here. You said they were drinking bleach? Ammonia?
[2019-03-19 00:33:20.007] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): They were drinking Space Cleaner.
[2019-03-19 00:33:27.257] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): And Going "AHHHHHHHH refreshing."
[2019-03-19 00:33:30.048] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): Now see, this I can work with
[2019-03-19 00:33:33.157] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): Can I get another admin to look at this?
[2019-03-19 00:33:48.310] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): No, you get me.
[2019-03-19 00:34:38.692] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): The millions of things I just listed you do not warrant the response "Well they're not exactly breaking any rules."
[2019-03-19 00:35:38.769] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): You listed three things. Space drugs; Legal. Getting in people's way; You didnt elaborate shit here, which is not a violation in itself. IC issue. Drinking chemicals, which is the sole thing I can work with as you shouldnt drink chemicals.
[2019-03-19 00:35:43.675] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): Space Lube.
[2019-03-19 00:35:49.744] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): Sorry, Space cleaner.
[2019-03-19 00:36:17.259] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): They were pushing doctors trying to get to treatment. They were trying to clean up active crime scenes.
[2019-03-19 00:36:21.464] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): Yes you said so after I asked about it. So please try to work with me here instead of questioning the validity of my work.
[2019-03-19 00:36:35.837] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): I am working with you. I stated everything that needed to be stated and you took everything at face value.
[2019-03-19 00:36:44.754] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): I would appreciate it if I had someone else.
[2019-03-19 00:39:50.757] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): Do you have any screenshots of their interactions? The drinking, the space drug pestering?
[2019-03-19 00:40:05.854] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): Why on earth would I have screenshots on hand? I'll try to scroll up for logs.
[2019-03-19 00:40:11.522] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): Please do
[2019-03-19 00:42:33.399] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): https://i.imgur.com/fWSqk4f.png
[2019-03-19 00:43:27.334] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): https://i.imgur.com/ajHx993.png
[2019-03-19 00:44:06.070] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): So you've sent me after the wrong janitor as you failed to provide a name.
[2019-03-19 00:44:11.544] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): https://i.imgur.com/jvjEJxH.png
[2019-03-19 00:44:34.433] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): My bad, but you should've asked which one. Didn't know there were two janitors.
[2019-03-19 00:45:05.144] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): There was only one present when you ahelped, and you said "This fucking janitor" But Ill deal with them.
[2019-03-19 00:45:42.283] ADMIN: PM: BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw)->Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta): https://i.imgur.com/ouisrQO.png
[2019-03-19 00:57:13.391] ADMIN: PM: Pratepresidenten/(Arrashi M'rta)->BurgerBB/(Diamond With Flaw): Alright, Ive had a talk with the guy, and they should shape the fuck up now. 

 

[Garnascus]

On 19/03/2019 at 13:18, BurgerBB said:

At the time when, you even admitted, there was only one janitor, unless I misread what you said. It was the only janitor I've seen all shift so I assumed it was the only janitor. I fucked up on my part, but perhaps I'm asking too much when you probably should've asked for clarification. I know I should've been clearer, but if there were two janitors perhaps you should've asked which janitor it was.

Yeah this is fair. Though im sorry to say that prate is pretty correct. Historically those are things we treat as IC issues. At best we might bwoink people if they are being a meme which is what it sounds like prate did? I dont think there is much else to say here.

[Garnascus]

locking and archiving cuz i forgot.