Mercenary Outfit Overhaul

[AmoryBlaine]

9 minutes ago, Scheveningen said:

You can mostly run with what Kyres did with the hardsuit sprites. Do stuff like actual overalls and jumpers, stuff tuck 'n roll professional mercs would wear. Their outfits should appear 'rough around the edges' like a merc would be.

That's a good idea. I said this a few times outside this thread, and it's somewhat implied at the start with the sweater versions, but I want there to be multiple variations of uniform for them. I was actually going to ask Kyres what he thought would be best as an undersuit for his stuff.

[AmoryBlaine]

[AmoryBlaine]

[Wigglesworth Jones]

I like this.

[AmoryBlaine]

We probably can't have 4 uniforms for Mercs, so which should we use, perhaps.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

10 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said:

We probably can't have 4 uniforms for Mercs

All of these look exactly the same to me. Are you sure woodland camouflage in outer space is the aesthetic we should go for?

[AmoryBlaine]

Just now, Marlon Phoenix said:

All of these look exactly the same to me. Are you sure woodland camouflage in outer space is the aesthetic we should go for?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I dont understand. 

[Scheveningen]

That is ERDL-Woodland Camouflage. Utilized in the Vietnam War.

This is URBAN FLECKTARN. 

compare to this:
 

 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

This doesnt convince me of anything. Its camo. We are in the depths of space. Why is camoflauge our desired theme? All our other main factions, ert, tcfl, kataphracts, station crew, have color to them.

An argument about what specific kind of camo this is isnt interesting to me. Im a civilian. I dont play arma 2.

[Scheveningen]

The jumpsuits are simply not woodland camouflage, they are jumpsuits with the color pallet of urban camouflage. They are not necessarily camouflage pattern (it is almost impossible atm to sprite convincing enough camouflage since it ends up in an awkward shading mess), the jumpsuits fit pretty well for their intended function and purpose. I think they look perfectly fine.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I don't want to see urban fatigue in outer space. only the sol allianced camo worked and it was intended to mske them look bland and faceless.

camo is the opposite of personality.

mercs should have personality.

they look like discharged vets who just got a job for a PMC because their PTSD wont let them them function in the civilian workforce.

they should be red. Or anything else.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[Scheveningen]

23 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

they look like discharged vets who just got a job for a PMC because their PTSD wont let them them function in the civilian workforce.

um, no

[Doc]

Red is exactly what we should stay away from; it's unnecessary attachment to their former Syndicate roots that we should be purposefully avoiding. "We're here to commit terrorism because you're a NanoTrasen station and NanoTrasen is bad" offers very little opportunity for engaging RP; having independent mercs that can develop their own motivations and their own goals is a much more worthy goal, and for that reason their 'standard' uniform should be very generalist. I think these sprites fulfill that purpose nicely.

 

Edit: I only just realized- don't they start with tactical turtlenecks already? Why do we not stick with those? I personally prefer those over these jumpsuits. I had my mind stuck on their blood-red voidsuits and moving away from the Syndicate themes. If anything these can be added to their armory as an alternative uniform, in addition to the turtlenecks.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Doc

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

they should be red. Or anything else.

It should be an option to have a mercenary team with color. Any sort of  color. It does not have to be red.

Camo is designed to make you look unassuming and blend into the background. That isn't what we want in our server. We are not here to play with an Arma 2 aesthetic. You have no idea who these people are. They could be Sol marines, vets time travelling from 1983 soviet occupied aghanistan, or whoever else wears bland camo.

They can be independent mercenaries while having a splash of personality in their uniform.

I know Amory is capable of this because of his good designs in jumpsuits for the contractors that have personality in them. Camo is not one of these good design choices.

 

They look extremely similar to the Sol officers we had during the Frost Invasion but with a different palette. And even here they blend into the floor.

We don't want our characters who are supposed to have personality and rp with people be unassuming, faceless mercenaries. This suppresses personality and promotes milsim rp.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

 

Spoiler

 

Sci-fi is inundated with the bland brown and gray color scheme that was popularized by Gears of War and the rise of 'realistic' shooters spawning from the modern war against terror and military simulators gaining popularity.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

There's so much more potential for our mercenaries to stand out. A color of their shirt or pants, or some whack ass helmet that makes them identifiable. Don't just latch onto something I say then put me on blast over that specific suggestion, I'm throwing out ideas while you're just pooping over the concept of breaking out of camo aesthetic.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Here is some suggestions off the top of my head using stream of consciousness for simple methods to take.

Small details, or different colors on one uniform, can have them stand out.

Anyone that greentexts this in bad faith is going to be obliterated.

[Itanimulli]

I will attempt to re-iterate a point I was trying to get across earlier: You speak as if you, personally, know what everyone wants, and that even the option, as a few on this thread have suggested, of having new outfits, is impossible. Mercs rarely wear the undersuits alone, as they are given voidsuits, and the potential to buy things with TC. In fact, the regular undersuit is literally just the tacticool turtleneck, with which seemingly no one had issue with before. I don't understand why someone who's attempting to preform aggressive, antagonistic ops would wear bright flashy colors in space, where they'd easily be shot to hell and back. The "sci-fi" military dress you attempted to showcase earlier would not be worn into combat, and the image of the rebels hails from old 70s-80s comics. Go look at rogue one to see how even starwars has shown attention to detail on the asthetic changes, especially when it comes to moving away from those god-awful sallets.

I could see if you wanted to add armbands or something similar to denote faction, like how we have medallions on the legion, but scifi can be flashy without insinuating illogicality in purpose. I look to halo in this regard, specifically at noble team, who managed to use saturated colors and not look goofy as all hell. The covenant were flashy because the things they wore were largely ceremonial in regard and they could hide simply by using active camouflage if they *really* wanted to be stealthy.

However. I shall admit. I am partial to decorative shoulder padding, though I'm primarily a "function over form" addict when it comes to any group who'd primarily exist in constant combat. I think that contrasts plenty with the flashiness of the station itself.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Itanimulli

[Scheveningen]

Itani's post aside - Marlon, do it yourself, at this rate. Development lives and dies on personal desire to fulfill their own vision. Amory's vision isn't yours, Marlon, I can already predict that he's going to go with what he wants to mold merc outfit concepts into. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

realism = brown is exactly what dominated scifi's zeitgeist for years.

It's not consistent with what we should want to see in factions. Just about everyone has a distinct style.

etc.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Just now, Scheveningen said:

Itani's post aside - Marlon, do it yourself, at this rate.

No.

 

[Scheveningen]

Then, sorry, unless you find someone to do it for you, your ideas will probably be gone with the wind. Spriting clothing/items is not easy just for a single item. It becomes more complex and difficult when uniform variations are involved, and development/lore already has spoken out countless times against different kinds of bloat. Clothing sprites are very repetitive and un-fun to do, considering how meticulous the process is for a single uniform variant.

[Itanimulli]

2 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

realism = brown is exactly what dominated scifi's zeitgeist for years.

It's not consistent with what we should want to see in factions. Just about everyone has a distinct style.

etc.

Mercs are not a faction. That's kind of the point of this: the merc team of the round is usually it's own gimmick.

Also:
"It's not consistent with what we should want to see in factions."

Me attempting to parody this statement got me a warning. Please stop pushing your notions on everyone else. You can't tell people what they want, or what they SHOULD want. It's borderline bullying. It's like you're attempting to be an "outsider" on purpose because what's "cool" isn't what you think should be cool.

Not to mention the factions you posted are:
TCFL: Purposefully meant to be flashy; they are 9 times out of 10 the 'good guys.'
Phoenix ERT: Literally what I said earlier.
The...captain. I don't think you read my post at all at this point. A captain's not supposed to even be fighting.
Dominia. Okay, seriously, have you even looked at the military assets they have? It's all literally exactly what you said you wanted to avoid.

[FreshRefreshments]

I personally hate the suits for their muddled, desaturated colors. But, if it is an option, alongside others, then I don't see much harm in it.

[AmoryBlaine]

5 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

This doesnt convince me of anything. Its camo. We are in the depths of space. Why is camoflauge our desired theme?

It's not thematic, it's, just reasonable attire for nonaligned Mercenaries to have. They aren't wearing these in space, they wear space suits, in space. These are for wearing indoors, in our grey office space.

5 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

An argument about what specific kind of camo this is isnt interesting to me. Im a civilian. I dont play arma 2.

I don't play Arma, either. What is your problem?

5 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

only the sol allianced camo worked and it was intended to mske them look bland and faceless.

I don't see how camouflage acts to make groups look bland or faceless. Whole armies have become distinct through their camo patterns. Look at CADPAT for Canadians, Flecktarn for the Germans, and Strichtarn for East Germany.

5 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

they look like discharged vets who just got a job for a PMC because their PTSD wont let them them function in the civilian workforce.

What is your problem, seriously.

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Camo is designed to make you look unassuming and blend into the background. That isn't what we want in our server. We are not here to play with an Arma 2 aesthetic.

Stop being a jerk, God.

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

They can be independent mercenaries while having a splash of personality in their uniform.

No one else has this camo, it's specifically colours that make sense for deep space mercenaries who are most likely operating in grey hallways and steel ships.

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

They look extremely similar to the Sol officers we had during the Frost Invasion but with a different palette. And even here they blend into the floor.

I don't know how the old stuff was used for Sol, but I'm changing those as well. I wanted to go with a more classic approach to their look. I sort of want to work in their WW2 frogskin pattern somehow through an alt, or something. The idea is to make them look like a cross between the Killzone's ISA and WW2 US Marines.

Left to right: Officer, Marine, Formal [jacket is separate]

 

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

We don't want our characters who are supposed to have personality and rp with people be unassuming, faceless mercenaries. This suppresses personality and promotes milsim rp.

Having outlandish designs forces people into a specific aesthetic and attitude, whereas leaving the standard uniforms fairly drag allows you to disassociate from what you're wearing and focus on your personalities while keeping it grounded. These mercenaries can be anyone, because they do not have an overwhelming aesthetic to them.

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Sci-fi is inundated with the bland brown and gray color scheme that was popularized by Gears of War and the rise of 'realistic' shooters spawning from the modern war against terror and military simulators gaining popularity.

That's not why, it's literally because we are on the doorstep of the Jetsons' age. It's no longer a pipe dream as to what the future will be- we are nearly in it. So most modern depictions of sci-fi is the modern world with scientific fiction and modern aesthetics, rather than the far off Jetsons' look.

You cannot post photos of Rebel Alliance gear and think that makes any sense for a free-form nonaligned Mercenary group. The Alderaanian Consular Guard are designed specifically to look like a mostly peaceful group in comparison to the Imperial Stormtroopers. The last photo is of an actual uniform, suggesting an allegiance to a faction. Mercenaries in our context are suppose to be easy to paste a gimmick over, so they aren't just some killteam. By forcing them into an aesthetic, that autonomy to choose your own gimmick and 'feel' is lost.

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Here is some suggestions off the top of my head using stream of consciousness for simple methods to take.

1. I'm already working on new armor sprites in a variety of reasonable colours with additional pouches. It's very hard, and annoying.

2. Yes, some colours are awful.

3. I don't think top and bottom differences look good unless you're trying to signify that they are different items. Which is why I went with camo on the sleeves and pantlegs, but not the inner areas.

4. Response 1.

5. Response 3.

6. Decals should be an optional accessory with this sort of uniform, since it's specifically designed to be as generalized as possible so people find an easier job inserting their gimmick.

7. I mean, it's just a hat, for casual wear. Again, it's suppose to be very general in appearance.

2 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

It's not consistent with what we should want to see in factions. Just about everyone has a distinct style.

But the mercenaries aren't suppose to have a distinct factional style. No one should roll Mercenaries and have a definitive idea as to what they are by default. Especially faction wise. The proposed designs are very general so people don't have the links to classic syndies, nor any inclinations to specific attitudes carried by the mercenaries, all the while having a unique look.