Removal of Secborgs

[kyres1]

There are alternatives to this presently being discussed, making me against outright removal. While security borgs can be phased out, they should be replaced with better, more unique, and law-abiding alternatives. Specifically, a peacekeeper module tailored to the specifics of Aurora, and one that falls in line with our lore. I'll get one proposed (perhaps with unique sprites) soon with details on what I specifically would like, and maybe we can build from there.

[Chada1]

5 hours ago, kyres1 said:

There are alternatives to this presently being discussed, making me against outright removal. While security borgs can be phased out, they should be replaced with better, more unique, and law-abiding alternatives. Specifically, a peacekeeper module tailored to the specifics of Aurora, and one that falls in line with our lore. I'll get one proposed (perhaps with unique sprites) soon with details on what I specifically would like, and maybe we can build from there.

Why not let the removal be merged and add Peacekeeper at a later time, then?

Sec as a module only removes from the game as it currently exists. It shouldn't be here.

As an Addendum: I'm totally open to a new, more conducive to roleplay module, I just don't want the Sec module to continue to plague us until then.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Chada1

[Kaed]

I just want to say that I really, really don't like the peacekeeper concept as it was shown.  It's theme derives from an entirely different concept of robot/crew dynamics than we have on the server.  Generating cookies or trauma blankets, screaming HUMAN HARM to daze everyone nearby, an actual hugging tool all of these are of a much sillier nature than I expect from a machine on the aurora and doesn't mesh well.  Our security team does not dispense cuddles or cookies, the robot module should be formed around what they need, other than a bonus officer.  A machine can attempt to empathize with a crew member and be kind to them without literally tucking them into bed with milk and cookies like a mommy bot.

I would much rather we make our own borg model that fits with security support objectives than port in a module from another server wholesale.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Kaed

[kyres1]

Nevermind wait a minute. When I said "peacekeeper," I didn't mean something that is literally a takeaway from another server. It would be similar in overall concept and nothing more.

Edited July 18, 2019 by kyres1
am i high?

[Snakebittenn]

20 minutes ago, Kaed said:

I just want to say that I really, really don't like the peacekeeper concept as it was shown.  It's theme derives from an entirely different concept of robot/crew dynamics than we have on the server.  Generating cookies or trauma blankets, screaming HUMAN HARM to daze everyone nearby, an actual hugging tool all of these are of a much sillier nature than I expect from a machine on the aurora and doesn't mesh well.  Our security team does not dispense cuddles or cookies, the robot module should be formed around what they need, other than a bonus officer.  A machine can attempt to empathize with a crew member and be kind to them without literally tucking them into bed with milk and cookies like a mommy bot.

I would much rather we make our own borg model that fits with security support objectives than port in a module from another server wholesale.

Peacekeeper module is not a part of Security. It's its' own module.

[Cnaym]

I play Kaiser, I find all Borg modules terribly broken and in need of huge rework... But even for me the security one is the worst. It looks like someone tried to copy an officer, when a detective would have worked far better. Now I may sound stupid AF, but giving them a mobile analyzer like the research module has would be awesome. Let a FT or Detective collect prints and the Borg can analyze them. Not only would this make them really useful, but going with Aurora tradition almost useless on their own. Apart from that it needs police tape. We have the deadly killer Borg for the syndicat so the ISD one should be focused on protection. A riot shield would work wonders, or a deployable shield like the inflatable walls. It could give cryo bags to save crew and so on...

Motion alarms are also something it could place in high sec areas and only it would receive their warnings. 

All in all end the valid hunt and make them really helpful so not only sec, but the entire crew can enjoy them and their RP.

[Nekonyan123]

If we really need to remove sec borgs, we should add a replacement like that pacifier they talked about. Security needs a stationbound that can help them open doors and achieve other tasks, other than being a relay with the AI and a mobile camera to look at.

[MrSmooooth]

Removing Secborgs doesn't really appeal unless something else is being implemented to take their space.

While I can agree that the current iteration of Secborg is perhaps too focused on combat with antags, I would support a rework over an outright removal. Perhaps refocusing them on detective/csi assistance or perhaps some of the defensive ideas that have been put out there earlier in this thread would be prudent.

Ultimately, this issue appears to stem from bad behavior by players using the role, but anything on the station has potential for abuse. I think steps should be taken to adress player behavior, and perhaps design elements that encourage bad behavior, before tossing the entire bot in the bin.

[GreenBoi]

55 minutes ago, MrSmooooth said:

Removing Secborgs doesn't really appeal unless something else is being implemented to take their space.

While I can agree that the current iteration of Secborg is perhaps too focused on combat with antags, I would support a rework over an outright removal. Perhaps refocusing them on detective/csi assistance or perhaps some of the defensive ideas that have been put out there earlier in this thread would be prudent.

Ultimately, this issue appears to stem from bad behavior by players using the role, but anything on the station has potential for abuse. I think steps should be taken to adress player behavior, and perhaps design elements that encourage bad behavior, before tossing the entire bot in the bin.

Secborgs have been here since the start of the server, and they've been complained and yelled at through the years. If it's been six years and just 'punishing bad players' and enforcing stricter things doesn't cut it, what will?

[Fortport]

I have seen a small number of secborgs that roleplay well, but I understand that secborgs may damage the balance of the round. I like the concept of secborgs, but many of the arguments proposed for their removal are sound. Their execution is just not acceptable, as is. Cyborgs have a set of laws that they cannot logic or reason with, them or anyone else. Secborgs, therefore, cannot be reasoned with. An IPC can think for itself, whereas a secborg cannot. An IPC, also, can be fought in a much more level playing field.

Without extensive reworking, removing them and allowing IPCs to fill in for the robot security officer meme may be the right thing to do from a gameplay perspective. They have tangible problems that could be rebalanced, however. This is the kinda sloppy solution. I like secborgs and think that suddenly chopping them out is pretty jarring, rather than attempting to fix their problems.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Fortport