Player Complaint

[Resilynn]

BYOND Key: Resilynn

Game ID: b3q-apl8 was the round AFTER that round.

Player Byond Key/Character name: Ksol Skkos, pretty sure it's Shadow.

Staff involved: Paradox, but barely. 

Reason for complaint: So as a non-antag, a fully armed (with a diamond spear) and armored unathi started meme devouring a goat, which was my pet.  Me, and the cargo staff, yelled that it was a pet, he kept going.  We tried to get between him and the goat, he started (as a non-antag) picking us up and throwing us over meme eating a goat.  Security was called, he ran from security to continue eating a goat.  Security had weapons out, he continued eating a goat.

Okay, I get it.  You want to meme eat a goat.  But we still have rules about playing a somewhat believable character, and this unathi ignored screaming crew, got into a physical fight, and got security called, all over wanting to meme eat a goat. It felt MRP at best.  Also, from what I understood, we started cracking down on unathi meme eating things.  In this case, a goat, which was worth fighting the crew and having security called over.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yeah, no one took it for the 10 minutes that remained of the round.  I ahelped again the next round and Paradox said shadow logged off, to make a complaint.

Approximate Date/Time: Like, 20 minutes ago at most.

 

[SatinsPristOTD]

I was there for that.. you touched him first. As a short, non-security skrell, you went after a big seven foot plus tall Unathi to keep him from a goat that was gave to him at near round start by the Captain. He was unaware it was your pet. It was easy to get confused in chat among the logs and text that was going by. It's possible he missed the line saying "that's my pet."

Unathi eat animals whole, all the time. I see it quite often. You're so determined that this Unathi was in the wrong, you fail to realize how bad it looks for your skrell to go up to an unathi eating a goat, an unathi in a breacher rig with a spear, and push/shove him over it.

Shadow never once threw a punch this entire time. If anything, your RP comes into question here more than an Unathi not even FIGHTING. He ate a goat after being promised a goat by the Captain. You came up, grabbed a full giant Unathi ina  breacher rig, and yeeted him on a table. No fear RP with his weapon. No self-perservation from you.



You PICKED UP A FULL GROWN UNATHI AND THREW HIM ON A TABLE WITHOUT A WORD. AS A SKRELL.

 

[Shadow7889]

Hello. Player of Ksol Skkosl here. 

Alright so, I want to start this off with my reason for my actions. I did indeed have the ok' from the Captain as well as Joe Mingle to eat the goat. For some reason, Joe had forgotten his offer of letting me eat the goat. Server logs will show that he did in fact say he'd let me have it. For those of you that don't use RIGs a lot, they are.. extremely heavy hard on your player ICly as well. You get hungry/thirsty rather fast, compared to not wearing them. ICly I saw this as a means to hunt various xenofauna around the station. All the while helping the crew out a bit by dealing with them. Went to go kill a spider for food early on, but the crew handled that already. I got to hunt a carp with the help of the AI and a Vacura officer as well. 

Later on in the round, we ( The merchant and I ) went down to the main level to buy a few items from a tajara, ( Menown's Nawfal ) and even hung out with Uriel Evans at the Kitchen. There I saw the goat box, which I figured had been misplaced. I was certain this was the same goat that I had been offered. So I took a crowbar off my tool belt, poped the box open, and found said goat. As I said, the RIG I was wearing did tax me a good bit, and I was rather hungry at the time, so I decided to actually eat the goat there. Come to find out, apparently either the crew didn't like the idea of me eating the goat raw, or just.. I don't know. So this skrell starts disarming me, trying to knock me over, and finally puts me on a table. 

Now. This is where it gets interesting. I had a fully kitted Breacher RIG on me. A diamond spear that could have just.. really done some damage, and few sets of cuffs on me for anyone that would cause too much issue on the Merchant's shuttle. ( I had plans to cuff and call the Aurora's ISD on anyone that stole from us. To avoid serious conflict. ) I could have used any one of these items to defend myself. However I was under orders to avoid hurting anyone. So instead, I decided to remove the Skrell from my area. I had tossed them out of the way of the goat and thing got.. crazy fast. Even when the ISD was called and nearly fired on me with weapons, I did not attack anyone. Server logs will show this as well. Once I was done eating the goat ( which had moved to the bar. ) I decided to leave the area so as not to further upset anyone, or get shot. I listened to the ISD when they told us to leave as well. 

I had reasonable actions and even confirmation that I was allowed this goat. I do not understand this ' meme ' eating term either. As I don't play Unathi, it didn't seem outside the perview of believeable RP. If I did act in any way outside of the way I was supposed to, I do apologize, and will further work on that. I am intending to strike up a whitelist with that race. 

And as a final piece, I find it odd that a Skrell that short, and not that powerful would think it's smart to disregard the big guy in a RIG with weapons.. And just go ahead and get violent. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Shadow7889

[Garnascus]

What do you mean "meme eating a goat"?

Why cant you just say he was eating a goat?

This all kind of sounds like an IC issue. Unathi have the ability to devour monkies and goats for a reason. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I don't have much involvement as the player Shadow7889 does not have a unathi whitelist. However, I find his conduct as one in this instance to not be below the pale as far as I can see. He kept his blade sheathed when you attacked him, when he could have easily slain you or went super crazy.

Eating animals like he did is normal in the context of unathi. The sheer craziness of it to everyone else around is the intention; they ARE supposed to accept the 'gross!' of the non-unathi around them.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[BRAINOS]

some old ass dude saves his dog from a 300 pound bear:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/05/02/chihuahua-owner-punches-bear-to-save-his-beloved-dog/

same here, dude squares up with a bear to save his dog
https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2018/10/30/Florida-man-kicks-bear-to-rescue-small-dog/1761540916280/

another 75-year-old florida man fights a fucking alligator to save a dog:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsjcjHs9vCg

woman lifts a car off her dad:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/superhero-woman-lifts-car-off-dad/story?id=16907591

dude lifts a car off of a 6-year old girl:
https://www.kansas.com/news/local/article1018475.html

dude literally runs into a burning building to save his dog:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlv_atjHywc

okay, so why am i posting all of these?

i'm kind of annoyed with the constant, you have to freeze up and die every time attitude pushed around here. yeah, i get it, fear RP is important, but it needs to have build-up and tension. if you're in a do or die situation, though? sometimes you pick do,  even though you know better. it's entirely unrealistic to expect someone to freeze up 100% of the time if the situation suddenly pops up like that. yeah, skrells are small and not that ripped, but neither are 75 year old men, and bears are fucking terrifying. cars are heavy as hell and luxury SUV's can weigh over literally 5,000 pounds. that shit doesn't stop real people from saving their pets or children. are these cases rare and newsworthy? yes. are they impossible or unbelievable as we're making it out to be? no.

also, it's important to note: this unathi is a sentient and intelligent crew member who can listen to reason. it's not like kevin was literally saying "throw hands bitch," he was trying to stop him. it's not like he was fighting a pissed off, mindless bear or something. saying that kevin fearlessly stood toe to toe against the unathi is completely wrong. he saw them doing something and physically interrupted them, yeah, but i've got proof people can literally just do that shit. are we saying that unathi have food aggression and getting near them when they eat isn't reasonable fear rp?

to be entirely clear: kevin did not 'pick a fight' with a 7-foot-tall unathi wearing a breacher chassis. he stood in the way of a perfectly sane (albeit hangry) one. there was physical contact, yeah, but it was no fight.

i have a major problem with the idea that what kevin did was entirely unbelievably impossible.

____________________________________________________

about the goat: preston and natalie gave kevin that goat from the warehouse and kevin was carrying it around the whole shift; it kinda was kevin's goat. the captain may have said otherwise, yeah, and we didn't respond to inquiries of 'can i eat a goat?' as we were preoccupied, but it's not like kevin just ran up and decked an unathi square in the jaw for eating some random goat.

i'm pretty sure the unathi did wind up eating the wrong goat, but i can't fault them for that considering it wasn't labeled and it was in the kitchen at the time.

either way, we pro'lly should'a labeled it or something to make that more clear. i'm not gonna jump in anyone's way for talking about the goat-eating incident one way or another, but that thing about ''you need to freeze up and piss your pants at the sight of any breacher suits'' kind of really annoys me. yeah, i get it, i wouldn't pick a fight with one, and if a guy threatened me in one, yeah - then i'd piss my pants. but if a guy tries to take my lunchbox wearing one? you bet your ass i'd try and swipe my lunchbox back and say ''dude you can't have that.''

about the unathi fighting off sec: i saw them benny hilling up and down the hallway once or twice. that's about the extent of it. i don't think the unathi got physical with anyone but the goat.

 

 

[Natiform]

made an account to pop in here and say that, yeah, i agree with brainos, saying that it's impossible to act under pressure is just kinda. whack. i'm chicken shit irl but i live in the desert and i cant tell you how many times ive come near extreme danger to save my dog from a rattlesnake or my cat from the gila monster that happened to get into my house. running barefoot out into the brush in the desert is also a dumb and stupid idea but ive done so when my cat made a break for it and i didnt have time to get shoes.

if the merchant team had stopped and tried to figure out why people were getting so heated over a goat then maybe things would've turned out a bit differently, so, uh, maybe something to consider? and repeating over and over that it was promised to him by the captain isn't reason enough to keep eating the thing despite all the screaming - maybe stop and figure out if that's the same goat you were promised or not. we've had multiple animals in the cargo bay so more than one goat isn't impossible.

i think all this really boils down to is that the goat crate was in the wrong place at the wrong time. resi's character stepped away from the crate the second that the merchant crew happened to be walking by the kitchen. it sucked, and we were yellin IC that it was a pet multiple times, but it just didn't seem to be caught that that's what the situation was. 


edited to add screenshots of the multiple times

Edited September 26, 2019 by Natiform

[Resilynn]

7 hours ago, Garnascus said:

What do you mean "meme eating a goat"?

Why cant you just say he was eating a goat?

This all kind of sounds like an IC issue. Unathi have the ability to devour monkies and goats for a reason. 

As I understand it, we had a problem awhile back with unathi swallowing things whole just because they could in very public areas that was cracked down on by the lore team. That’s what I mean. Disregarding several crew members AND security to eat a goat whole in public seems very silly. 

[Resilynn]

Also, yeah, I tried to just put myself between us first but kept being repositioned. Logs don’t show when someone is grab intent shoving you. 

[SatinsPristOTD]

9 hours ago, BRAINOS said:

to be entirely clear: kevin did not 'pick a fight' with a 7-foot-tall unathi wearing a breacher chassis. he stood in the way of a perfectly sane (albeit hangry) one. there was physical contact, yeah, but it was no fight.

He literally picked the Unathi up and grabbing them aggressive and put him on a table. The word AGGRESSIVE is in that for a reason. Yes, the Skrell came after a seven foot tall Unathi and grabbed them aggressively, then put them onto the kitchen bar table.

You can't get around the fact that they picked a fight with someone twice their size, over a goat they left in a crate the entire shift. Starting a fight isn't just "let me punch this dude". It also involves grabbing people, pushing them, and invading personal space.

So this complaint is about an Unathi eating a goat, when the Skrell themselves decided to pick a fight with a dude twice their height and weight.. over a goat....

Let me say this: It's not out of character for an Unathi to eat a goat.

It's pretty damn weird to imagine a skrell (who isn't security, and see's a massive Unathi in their path) pick up said Unathi and table them over a goat.

[Resilynn]

There was context for the crate and context for caring so much about the goat. 

[Natiform]

you just seem really caught up on the fact that a skrell attempted to stop the unathi when we're trying to give you context here. it's not impossible for someone to do extreme things for their pet, as shown in brainos's post. in my previous post, saving my dog from a rattlesnake? i was 12. my very large (weighing almost as much as i did at the time) dog was about to try to play with a rattlesnake. i picked that dog up and got away from the snake. adrenaline is a hell of a drug.

there is IC reasons for everything that happened, which is what we're trying to explain here. kevin had a pet spider earlier in the shift that got out of it's jar and mutated and was killed by sec, so he was depressed. preston and natalie gave him a new pet and told him to not let it out of the crate so no one would hurt it. kevin had already dealt with the loss of a pet that round and didn't want another instance.

again, most of this was trying to be explained in IC, however no one was stopping what they were doing to listen, which is how the shoving match started. because of course you'll go to whatever lengths you can to save your pet. it's not impossible.

[BRAINOS]

6 hours ago, SatinsPristOTD said:

He literally picked the Unathi up and grabbing them aggressive and put him on a table. The word AGGRESSIVE is in that for a reason. 

he grabbed and pulled the unathi's hands away from his pet and pushed him onto a table.

i don't think unathi have completely senseless food aggression, so if someone's doing something wrong after you're shouting at them, the next step is to get in between them and the thing so you can repeat yourself clearer. it's not as if kevin was ever putting himself in direct, clear danger of being eaten himself. the "fully armed terrifying unathi" doesn't apply when the unathi isn't even a dangerous, hostile or unpredictable person. they're a dude unwittingly doing a thing they're not supposed to. you're allowed to pull someone off of eating your lunch, and you should definitely be allowed to pul someone off of eating your pet. no matter how scary or heavily armed they appear, you shouldn't expect any civilized person to turn those weapons onto you because you dared touch them when they're doing something they shouldn't.

some context re: it's Kevin's pet: as natiform said, kev had a pet spider that got out of his jar, grew into a big one, and was killed by sec. kev was down in the dumps. so we gave him a goat and told him not to take it out of the crate so it wouldn't also grow ten times its size and get killed by sec. kev saw that goat as a gesture of kindness from human crew, as a fascinating, exotic earth animal, and as a pet. he even named the goat. it was the one thing that saved poor kev from having an exceptionally bad day until it was made infinitely worse when he sees someone tear open its crate and start biting it.

the only way this becomes "local skrell puts themselves in mortal danger against a giant dragon to save a goat" is if we also imply that unathi are barbaric savages who go into frenzied bloodlusts any time they eat. 

 

edit:
i must also announce this is my last forum post, for i have achieved my goal.

69 posts. nice

Edited September 26, 2019 by BRAINOS

[Natiform]

also i just wanna say:

imagine you're takin your dog for a walk. now imagine someone runs up and starts stabbing your dog. are you gonna go "hey dude that's not cool" or are you gonna try to stop the dude from stabbing your dog?

[BRAINOS]

even that isn't a reasonable 1:1 comparison considering this unathi had no clear malicious or murderous intent.

a guy with a knife stabbing my dog, yeah. i'd expect to freeze up because what if he stabs me next?

at best you could consider this a big guy about to accidentally step on your dog. you're gonna shove him but neither of you had any intention of harming the other, thus the chances of it escalating are pretty low.

the unathi in this case is just doing what he does, munchin on goats. it's not like he was hostile, just hungry.

[Garnascus]

So, with the help of testimony of a few players and the unathi lore developer i really do think this entire situation is an IC issue. I do not have an issue with unathi devouring animals. Its supposed to be what makes them icky to other races.I believe the conflict over it was perfectly acceptable IC.I will lock and archive this in 24 hours unless there is anything else. 

[Resilynn]

8 hours ago, Garnascus said:

So, with the help of testimony of a few players and the unathi lore developer i really do think this entire situation is an IC issue. I do not have an issue with unathi devouring animals. Its supposed to be what makes them icky to other races.I believe the conflict over it was perfectly acceptable IC.I will lock and archive this in 24 hours unless there is anything else. 

Thanks mom. I wish this had just been resolved in an ahelp. 

[Garnascus]

Locking and archiving.