Natiform

give this man his fucking whitelist +10000000000 (real talk though danse is the most solid rper ive ever had the pleasure of rping with and he's very good. give him whatever he wants. please. Please. he's threatening me. im no longer saf)

i also think that this would be a fun way to get IPC’s involved in antag business again. i feel like they’ve been kinda left in the dust now that the main game mode that affected them has been removed from the rotation. as stationcrab said, as long as it’s high-risk high-reward, i’m all for this!

We can argue in circles all we want, but I really don't think it will get us anywhere. You obviously have no intention of changing your mind on the matter, but I will say that the logs speak for themselves and the objective of this thread has been met. I am fine with this being locked and archived.

Just wanted to confirm what Brainos already did and let you know that there's no bad blood between us. You were in the right to act the way you did as an antag, and I hope you know how much I adore Taika as a character ?

I've been trying to figure out the best way to voice my thoughts on this. There's a bit of back and forth and contradictions going on here, so I'll go through it piece by piece. I'll say for the Nth time that you did not have all of the context. Neither did Taika, and honestly not even Summer to some extent. I will also say, again, that no one was harassing anyone and it was just some emotions running high, but I'm sure you don't really care about that at this point as you seem to have made up your mind about all of this. Saying we were acting belligerent is an extreme reach. The part that you walked in on in the garden was my character talking to a friend who had just beaten her boyfriend into paincrit. Of course she would be upset, but no one was acting "belligerent". There was no "We'll be back" but a "I won't bother trying to talk this out with you if it happens again." Yet again, you did not have the context to anything that was happening but seemed to be going into the situation with your mind made up based on what you had heard on the cargo radio comms. I'll also say that you're being a tad hypocritical if we're in the wrong for not asking medical questions and then also did the same to cargo - We messed up on that point, but as Brainos had said, the miscommunications had been cleared by the time you had joined. People were still frustrated, sure, but there was fuel added to the fire after you had joined. As a side note to this, Taika went on to attack other people on the station - They were an antag and were in the right to do so, but you still seem hung up on the fact that cargo was upset at them for having someone in their department attacked. I guess I just don't see the logic in your character defending an antag the way they did. Maybe at first, but not after they went on to attack others. You can't really say that "Prestoff was not an element" and "He was the reason the whole mess started". The statements are just kind of extremely contradictory. Again, based on your comments in OOC, you came into the situation with your mind made up about cargo and I do not believe that you would have so stringently tried to "have cargo brought to justice" had you not taken meta knowledge, but this is just how it appears to me, so take that with a grain of salt. I tried to talk things out with you in OOC after the fact but all I got was hostility and insults, which is another reason why I thought this complaint should be made so that we could clear the air and get things set straight. I am sorry that this comes off as an attack on your character, but I'll say it felt the same way going in my direction. His character was not at the garden, but was attacked by the gardener. That's the point. The attempt to turn this around and insinuate that Brainos and I were metagaming the situation is frustrating to say the least and feels like a deflection. Yes, his character had IC information. That is all any of our characters ever acted on, but after a round like that we're not NOT going to speak OOCly about it afterwards to try to figure out what the hell just happened. Nat and Preston did not speak to you at all at the docks until you yet again inserted yourself into a situation in which they were venting to a friend. And you end on another contradiction - You say that your character had zero reason to care about Prestoff, and yet still felt the need to "seek consequences" after hearsay. The namecalling is also not needed here and is just flat out rude. No one is creating a false narrative, we are just trying to explain things from our side of the story because, again, I just want to have this straightened out. Saying our experience is a false narrative is kinda, well. That sucks a lot. Again, I didn't mean for any of this to be an attack on your character, but when you openly admit OOCly that you were not planning on joining until you heard the radio in cargo, of course we're going to assume that it meant you had been metagaming. What other conclusion would we come to in that situation? You can't say one thing in-game, in OOC, and say something completely different here on the forums. All I have left to say on this is that the logs will speak for themselves and I'll refrain from posting further until an admin has come in to handle things. If an exact play-by-play is needed to better understand the situation from my POV, I'll happily give one.

BYOND Key: Natiform Game ID: b57-aRzG & b57-ajF4 Player Byond Key/Character name: WickedCybs. I believe they were playing Val Xiram, but I am not 100% positive Staff involved: ParadoxSpace was both part of this and someone who I spoke to after the series of events happened. Reason for complaint: Metagaming Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? I did not ahelp, as mentioned in the previous section, ParadoxSpace was a part of what happened and we discussed it. Approximate Date/Time: 3/9/2020 The round b57-ajF4 is where all of the nasty stuff went down and round b57-aRzG is where WickedCybs mentioned that they were metagaming in said previous round. So, a lot of what turned these rounds into a bit of a mess was lack of context. There was a lot of stuff going on that could really just be blown off as IC issues, but the reason for this complaint was an admittance to metagaming by WickedCybs after everything went down. WickedCybs's metagaming turned what was already a frustrating round into an absolutely exhausting one. There was a lot of miscommunication between cargo and medical in the ajF4 round - Cargo and medical were quite frustrated with each other and cargo was venting a bit to each other in the supply comms. Again, this part is very important because they didn't mention it to anyone else - It was solely in their own private communications. During said miscommunication, Val Xiram joined the round after my character, Natalie Duponte, went to the garden to confront the gardener (who is a friend of hers) as to why the gardener had attacked Preston. All of this was antag related and thus not really relevant to the current issue at hand. While Natalie was speaking with the gardener, Val Xiram appeared and did nothing but stand outside of the garden and listen in on what was going on. At one point, the other cargo tech with me said "If you hurt Preston again, we will not be as civil as we were this time.". Val immediately jumped in and began accusing us of threatening the gardener for, what appeared to them to be (since they had no context) no reason. I was both ICLY and OOCLY frustrated at this point as this was the third time in the round that cargo had been accused for something they did not do, so Natalie argued a bit back and forth with Val telling them that they did not know all of the details and to mind their business. Even after explaining context, Val continued to berate cargo and threatened to call ISD, so I figured my best bet at this point was to just remove myself from the situation, so I did. A few minutes later, now that all of cargo was back in the cargo bay, the entire EPMC crew arrives in cargo and asks why cargo is threatening both engineering and medical. At this point, I'm completely confused and I have no idea what is going on. I don't know if this is antag related or not (because I knew OOCLY that this was a borer round and I wasn't sure if we were just being hunted or not.) but ICLY I had no way of knowing, so I did what anyone who was accused of something they did not do and I begged the EPMC to listen to our side of the story and begged them to figure out why people were trying to target cargo. When the EPMC got even just a part of our story, the rest of them dispersed and one remained to get the full details. We explained, step by step, what had been happening to try to clear our names and we had no idea where these accusations of cargo threatening the other departments were coming from. EPMC had to leave due to antag issues, but not even a few minutes later, the captain then appears in cargo and asks them the same question: "Why do I hear that cargo is threatening engineering and medical?" I was completely exasperated at this point and we tried to give an abbreviated version of our events from our side, again, just trying to clear our names because it felt that the entire station had turned against us. The rest of the round was pretty frustrating and ended on a sour note. There was a bit of salt in OOC from all sides, but I just wanted to figure out what was going on and explain cargo's version of things. Since, again, it felt like the entire station hated us by the end of the round. The round ends and we go into the next round. The arguing in OOC started back up because WickedCybs mentioned that cargo was bullying the gardener, to which of course cargo went to it's defense to say, no, you do not have the context. At some point either before or during the second bout of arguing, however, WickedCybs admitted that they were on the fence about joining the around until they heard radio chatter in cargo calling their friend a "bitch" (because again, cargo was venting amongst themselves in their radio and nowhere else.) What this, to me, means that they had taken OOC information as an observer and used it to influence how their character behaved towards our characters, thus getting the EPMC, all of engineering, the rest of medical, and command angry with cargo. I believe what set them off is that someone in cargo said "Yeah, fork her!" and that would sound like a threat, however when said medical character was kicking cargo out of the medical lobby, she had said to "Get the fork out," and thus was just cargo poking a bit of fun at the situation. Which WickedCybs would have known had they had any context. However, they were a late-joining observer and thus did not even have all of the details. But again: Even if cargo was threatening the medical player, Val Xiram would have had no knowledge whatsoever of what was happening in the cargo radio. And that is the basis of this player complaint.

i do agree with a lot of this. my only question would be since the QM isn't exactly considered a head... (i mean, they don't even have access to their depsec office (but i also don't know if other heads do)) and the fact that qm is, at least, afaik, still not even soft-whitelisted, would that still mean that depsec needs to listen to the qm as well? i mean what do we do if Shitter McGee comes in as qm and starts ordering the officer to do shit way out of their scope and/or jurisdiction? and how would we go about making sure that officers listen to the qm anyway? so far, the latter that you mentioned is the only kind of interaction i've ever seen. right now, depsec feels more like we're having an officer loaned to our department instead of actual departmental security, if that makes sense. i know that a more thorough mesh will come with time, i'd just like to figure out how we do that sooner rather than later. i do really like depsec and like i said in an earlier post, it definitely has kinks to be worked out. i'm at least willing to work with it because it really has helped drive RP and has increased cross-departmental bonds a bit.

wow way to dogpile guys........................... kyres is my dad...................

hi! i sure hope i'm posting this in the right thread i was really against department security at first, but it's really started to grow on me. however, i do get other people's complaints about warrants being kinda useless and validhunting becoming a bit more of an issue. i DO very much enjoy the fact that it's helping people stop with the "security man bad" mentality, at least. i could go either way with it, at this point. ANYWAY: my main reason for posting here. i just wanted to talk about issues that i've noticed in the cargo department as far as mapping and access goes. i'm so happy that we finally fixed the abyss that was just outside of cargo in the vending machine area. there's still two main issues in cargo, however: in the warehouse, the bottom right corner is COMPLETELY dark. there used to be a light in that corner before the warehouse was made a bit smaller to fit the security office, and i think the light in that corner was just forgotten about after it was shrunk a bit. the second thing is that there's weird access issues on the security doors. QM, Techs and miners can't get in through the main entrance, which i'm assuming it's supposed to be like that. however, (and i dunno if this is just for QM or not since that's what i main) the door leading to maintenance from the security office in supply seems to have no ID lock on it whatsoever, and as QM i can bypass the main door very easily. again, i dunno if this is a feature or if it's just leftover from changing stuff around either way, i appreciate the work that's gone into this merge and i'm sure we can work out the kinks with time!

also gotta pop in here to talk about what a good boy bear #2 is i dont think ive ever actually seen the dude upset at anything - he's good at keepin his head cool in just about any situation and is amazingly good at handling stress; probably part of being a stinky sec main. he's not afraid to take responsibility for his actions and apologize when something is pointed out to him, either. he's one of the first friends i made on the aurora, when i wasnt so sure about reaching out and talking to other people that much; that alone says a lot to me, as he's very inviting and good at getting people out of their shells. good personality, good attitude, good boy. he'd make a good mod, i think.

so, like... i can get where people are coming from when they say it looks like a science tool. honestly, i think it's... a little silly that our tools have to be color coded- departments and uniforms i can understand, but... tools not so much. that being said, if it makes people happy, then why not... just... do this? and, like... if the pointed part is also something people dislike, then... it's like... 5 pixels to erase...

honestly? i'd be down for this. it would be nice to finally finally see the construction level put to use instead of being the one we have to pass just to get back up to the surface. it'd also give a spot for people who just want to rp and hang out other than the kitchen or the bar, or for more sensitive conversations that require privacy other than dragging the other person deep into a department and hoping an assistant doesn't pop up right in the middle of your story about how your dad died asking if you wanna play cards. +1

all of this effort for something that only works half of the time, too, as the shuttle typically refuses to send with a mob on it unless you're lucky, use some weird voodoo, and pray a lot. i would love to have some different bounty items for cargo. i think this is a great idea, the bounty system really just needs an update imo. another annoying one that i used to see a lot (though not as often lately- maybe it was removed?) was the spare ID from the captain and the reward was only something like... 1500 credits. while a burger with like 5 ingredients from the kitchen would net you 12000 credits. the scaling just doesn't make sense sometimes. i don't really have any ideas as to what to add to cargo bounties atm as i'm running on no sleep- i'll probably return later with some more thoughts, but i'm glad that people are at least talking about this.

i have to big agree with brainos here. along with: as someone who works at a "nice office" with a "cushy job", as long as it is appropriate, (i.e. not like a party dress or short-shorts or something) i get to wear whatever i want. i don't see what purpose it would have to make everyone conform to a uniform, other than killing individuality. the jobs that are high-risk are recognized at a glance already, which is all we need. big no thank you from me, sorry

Seriously. There's, like, not a single thing here that I don't disagree with. Please please please do not punish an entire department because of the actions of the few. To go through your list: I don't think removing weapons would be a good idea only because of the points Doxxmedearly brought up- And as it was already stated, locking them behind a head or QM role would be best. And if we're worried about QM shitters doing the "rise up" bullshit anyway, then that can be fixed with- Absolutely this. All of the issues brought up with Quartermasters are seemingly issues that come from people that are new to the server and don't really care for a high RP environment. And yes, the department still functions without a Quartermaster - Any department can function without some kind of head - But the QM does best as a teacher role and that's what it should be used as. Leaving the department to the responsibility to the HoP only means that new players get less attention than they should, because more often than not, the HoP is a good target for antags and they end up getting caught up in what is going on elsewhere in the station and have no time for cargo at all. This one... Makes me iffy, because I have personally never seen a QM do this and if they ARE doing it then they should be reported immediately, because, just... No. That's not how this should go at all. It's powergaming and unrealistic and not in line with what a high RP environment should be. Again, this would be fixed by just adding a play-time restriction on the role to weed out the bad QMs that are here for their enjoyment and their enjoyment alone. This one has got to be a hard no for me. Again, as others have already stated, the purpose that KA's serve is to help miners get their job done and get back onto the station in a timely manner so that they can actually enjoy RP. KAs do almost no damage as it is as long as they are in a pressurized environment, so nerfing them isn't entirely necessary as it's basically useless when inside the station. And blobs still do plenty of damage before a good enough KA comes around to finish up the job - The default ones in the locker don't really do much of anything and if science has worked hard on making a strong KA for the miners then that should be rewarded by making "easy" work of a blob. Random crates should just be removed, imo. They don't contribute to much of anything and are, more often than not, filled with junk. If we are worried about cargo using KAs to open crates that are not for their department, then why don't we make it so that if a crate is opened via KA, everything inside just gets blasted to bits? Hacking it would have to be a group effort with science. I sincerely hope that people already do this but I know that it just needs to be pushed- Pretty, pretty please, if you see someone powergaming in cargo - Ahelp it. I'm begging you. As I said at the beginning of my post - Please do not punish an entire department for the actions of a few. We just need to fix the mentality around the department, not removing what makes it unique. Edit: Forgot to talk about the antique sniper rifle. It should just... Have a lock be put on it. The fact that it does not have a lock on it already is just silly. It's a quick and easy fix. And Seeli said: Increase the amount ordered for some things (a SINGLE chicken for 200 when a normal spawned crate comes with multiple). What about ready to cook carp meat (ie no carpotoxin in it)? Or more medicines? I also think that this is a really good idea, as sometimes a hectic round with few medical players can be overwhelming when they don't have the proper medicines. Only thing to watch out for here would be the players that order medical supply crates and hoard them - But again, that's powergaming and should be ahelped or at least talked to in LOOC.

gowet BIG BOOLY CONFWOWMED!!! i has.... ebidence!!!

uwu

while i think this is a cute idea, i'm not sure if it would be a good idea because all i can think about is the cacophony that would be crew transfer on highpop.

the amount of RP i've seen stemming from just one little laptop game alone is incredible. danny so easily sucks people in to his game and it really drives discussion- ive spent entire 2 hour rounds just talking with other people about the game, ideas for it, what we liked, etc- never noticed the time passing. plus, like, the fact that this madlad is making a fucking game within a game is something to be rewarded. that shit is stupidly difficult, (though i say this as someone who only has basic knowledge of html) and the amount of work he's already put into it is kind of incredible. plus, it's genuinely fun! i once even saw an antag sit down to play it- it just draws people in that someone is actually working successfully with NTSL, something that maybe 2 or 3 people actually know. i've yet to see one character that didn't enjoy it in one way or another. even the beefiest of beefheads like this weird nerd shit. also- ive been in that poor student life. you know this dude actually having his own laptop would be, like, bare minimum. you cant really live as a student without your own computer and renting one every single day just would not be in a starving student's budget. you gotta spend what little money you have on coffee, obviously. ... anyway. tl;dr, brainos is a good boy, give him the laptop. bls. +1

yeah..... no that's a hard no from me dawg you don't see female police officers in skirts. thats because they are not practical at best and get absolutely in the way at worst. there is zero reason to have gendered uniforms, and if female security officers want to be feminine, they have their off hours to do so. which is why some people are currently working on more female outfits- feminity isn't bad but there is a time and place for that, security not being one of them. please please please, just, no.

i really like the part where hes dark and mysterious +1

ahhh i was there for your very first liaison round! exciting! we didnt get to rp a WHOLE whole lot together, but he seemed really interesting for the little bit we got to do! got to crack a few jokes here and there, and it was nice to have someone seek me out for RP as i was trying out a brand new role and brand new character, so i was a bit lonely- i appreciated you reaching out to the civilian roles and giving us all some interaction in what was a rather hectic round that left us ignored for the most of it. but i mean, your RP is always spot on, so once i realized that it was you playing, it all made sense ^^ biiiiiiig ol +1 from me!