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Natiform

Player Complaint : WickedCybs

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BYOND Key: Natiform
Game ID: b57-aRzG & b57-ajF4
Player Byond Key/Character name:  WickedCybs. I believe they were playing Val Xiram, but I am not 100% positive
Staff involved: ParadoxSpace was both part of this and someone who I spoke to after the series of events happened.
Reason for complaint: Metagaming
Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? I did not ahelp, as mentioned in the previous section, ParadoxSpace was a part of what happened and we discussed it.
Approximate Date/Time: 3/9/2020

The round b57-ajF4 is where all of the nasty stuff went down and round b57-aRzG is where WickedCybs mentioned that they were metagaming in said previous round.

So, a lot of what turned these rounds into a bit of a mess was lack of context. There was a lot of stuff going on that could really just be blown off as IC issues, but the reason for this complaint was an admittance to metagaming by WickedCybs after everything went down. WickedCybs's metagaming turned what was already a frustrating round into an absolutely exhausting one. 

There was a lot of miscommunication between cargo and medical in the ajF4 round - Cargo and medical were quite frustrated with each other and cargo was venting a bit to each other in the supply comms. Again, this part is very important because they didn't mention it to anyone else - It was solely in their own private communications.

During said miscommunication, Val Xiram joined the round after my character, Natalie Duponte, went to the garden to confront the gardener (who is a friend of hers) as to why the gardener had attacked Preston. All of this was antag related and thus not really relevant to the current issue at hand. While Natalie was speaking with the gardener, Val Xiram appeared and did nothing but stand outside of the garden and listen in on what was going on. At one point, the other cargo tech with me said "If you hurt Preston again, we will not be as civil as we were this time.". Val immediately jumped in and began accusing us of threatening the gardener for, what appeared to them to be (since they had no context) no reason.

I was both ICLY and OOCLY frustrated at this point as this was the third time in the round that cargo had been accused for something they did not do, so Natalie argued a bit back and forth with Val telling them that they did not know all of the details and to mind their business. Even after explaining context, Val continued to berate cargo and threatened to call ISD, so I figured my best bet at this point was to just remove myself from the situation, so I did.

A few minutes later, now that all of cargo was back in the cargo bay, the entire EPMC crew arrives in cargo and asks why cargo is threatening both engineering and medical. At this point, I'm completely confused and I have no idea what is going on. I don't know if this is antag related or not (because I knew OOCLY that this was a borer round and I wasn't sure if we were just being hunted or not.) but ICLY I had no way of knowing, so I did what anyone who was accused of something they did not do and I begged the EPMC to listen to our side of the story and begged them to figure out why people were trying to target cargo.

When the EPMC got even just a part of our story, the rest of them dispersed and one remained to get the full details. We explained, step by step, what had been happening to try to clear our names and we had no idea where these accusations of cargo threatening the other departments were coming from.

EPMC had to leave due to antag issues, but not even a few minutes later, the captain then appears in cargo and asks them the same question: "Why do I hear that cargo is threatening engineering and medical?"

I was completely exasperated at this point and we tried to give an abbreviated version of our events from our side, again, just trying to clear our names because it felt that the entire station had turned against us.

The rest of the round was pretty frustrating and ended on a sour note. There was a bit of salt in OOC from all sides, but I just wanted to figure out what was going on and explain cargo's version of things. Since, again, it felt like the entire station hated us by the end of the round.

The round ends and we go into the next round. The arguing in OOC started back up because WickedCybs mentioned that cargo was bullying the gardener, to which of course cargo went to it's defense to say, no, you do not have the context.

At some point either before or during the second bout of arguing, however, WickedCybs admitted that they were on the fence about joining the around until they heard radio chatter in cargo calling their friend a "bitch" (because again, cargo was venting amongst themselves in their radio and nowhere else.)

What this, to me, means that they had taken OOC information as an observer and used it to influence how their character behaved towards our characters, thus getting the EPMC, all of engineering, the rest of medical, and command angry with cargo. I believe what set them off is that someone in cargo said "Yeah, fork her!" and that would sound like a threat, however when said medical character was kicking cargo out of the medical lobby, she had said to "Get the fork out," and thus was just cargo poking a bit of fun at the situation. Which WickedCybs would have known had they had any context. However, they were a late-joining observer and thus did not even have all of the details.

But again: Even if cargo was threatening the medical player, Val Xiram would have had no knowledge whatsoever of what was happening in the cargo radio. And that is the basis of this player complaint.

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Hello, I will be taking this complaint. I'd like to start off by reminding everyone to post only if you're involved.

 

I'd like to gain @WickedCybs accounts on the situation. 

 

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hey, i'm posting here 'cus i was involved.

so, preston (who i was playing) was thrown out of medical by summer - on his way out of medical to grab food for the unathi, on the CMO and QM's orders. the EPMC drew their gun on him and told him to leave medical - while he was literally on his way out, and on orders from Summer's boss. of course, cargo comms are gonna light up because that's really annoying, but not a huge deal. this is what WickedCybs hears while observing, according to what they said in OOC.

taika comes over to cargo, beats the shit out of preston (antag stuff, that's chill) and within a few seconds of taika leaving, pres is left gasping and stuttering. hanna greene, shaft miner, patches him up and makes sure he's okay, but it's really gonna piss off cargo when you beat the shit out of one of their techs who doesn't fight back. cargo comms go crazy again, and it's around this time that WickedCybs comes on, as Val. Later next round WickedCybs literally admits they weren't thinking about joining until over-hearing cargo comms.

Nat and Courier come back into the department and find pres all fucked up, and go find taika, the gardener, to talk to them, and they have a conversation. this is the conversation that Val then overhears, and immediately jumps to the conclusion that nat, and by extension, of course, all of cargo, are just throwing around threats for no reason at all.

the situation between medical and cargo had been de-escalated from boiling point to simply tense, but this is when Val jumps in, inserting themselves into a situation that didn't need it, with an OOC motive, and starts telling all the other departments that cargo's threatening medical and engineering. suddenly we have medical, engineering, command and the fucking EPMC all over us, and val is painting us as ''hostile idiots.''

later on, in ooc, WickedCybs keeps saying that ''cargo could have handled the situation better'' and was 100% confident they were in the right to call cargo liars. it's one thing to stir the shit-pot ICly, that's chill, but to be so invested in everything to start egging everyone on OOCly is overboard. a cargo tech was beaten, severely, and it's still on us to not bitch about it over private comms that you'd only hear OOCly?

in summary, WickedCybs injected their character on the motivation of OOC information and then continued painting cargo, ICly and OOCly, as villains, without listening to any reason. the metagame-y start of all of this is what's got me irritated.

it turned a frustrating round into something i'm literally ready to retire preston over. it's a good thing a huge portion of that wasn't canon. i've played preston for several years and to have someone inject themselves and join their clique's crusade with meta knowledge and motivation just to screw my character over is something i wouldn't have expected in this community.
 

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Posted (edited)

I used what was happening on the cargo radio strictly as an example when it came to the narrative you were pushing forward of cargo being innocent of any wrongdoing after the round ended during the OOC spat, which was asked to conclude. In the round itself, while the limited view of cargos behaviour was frustrating to watch during my time as a ghost, I carried none of that information with me ICly. I was kind of busy playing an MMO at the same time up until the time I spawned. If I was actually using my knowledge to metagame here, I would have mentioned far more or joined as a HoP I was meaning to test out that day, which I mentioned as something I could've done in dchat. Could've also spoken about that one Unathi attacking medical that was seemingly the source of all this, but I never knew that ICly, all that really happened was... joining the round. Hearing some of the round happenings on the engie comms and my PDA. As Val is about to leave, lingering around for a bit because the gardener had a psi-aura which was pretty curious, they hear what can be considered a threat to someone they consider a rather kind person based on their few interactions, which led to the incident in the garden. A simple "I will let security know about your threats if they continue" had Duponte and Courier crank up their hostility. That is not going to have anyone see them in a good light at all, and it really didn't did it? Based on others who walked by. It set the tone along with all the other information obtained in round after the fact.

As for being on the fence, that was making me not want to join but I ended up doing so because the round had a few cool people on and I figured It'd be interesting considering it was a far more peaceful borer round than usual. I was doing fine with just playing the round once any relevant command staff were informed of the situation, and that is what I did. Of course, at the end of it cargo mentions it again to Roadman. Don't need to say what happened next. That was a big detraction from the otherwise good RP going on, but thankfully short.

Course, the basis of the complaint here is whether I metagamed or not. And to restate, if I did, Val would have a lot more knowledge on the situation. I don't really know any of the characters in the "clique" I was "crusading" with more than superficially and have had no interactions with them on an OOC basis other than LOOC and OOC chatter. Duponte and Prestoff. I do not care about at all. Prestoff was not even a blip on the radar other than the yelling the end of round, and to say I outright wanted to screw him over just speaks to the you-centric mindset being put out here. Did I beeline for the garden or make my way there? No, I spawned pretty much there via cyro and overheard it. Had it been anywhere else, none of this would have happened since non-Skrell having psionics is pretty insane and it would have been a beeline to engineering. Everything that happened, happened because of our characters IC actions, and consequences were going to come of that for certain. Like I said before, realize how things look from an outside perspective. And from an outside perspective, cargo acted the part of school-yard bullies, which my character is never going to abide. That is why they inserted themself into it. Why onlookers such as Viggo Mab did as well when they chanced upon the increasingly hostile cargo department. The "reasoning" supplied to Val were backhanded insults and "you aren't asking questions!". To say I egged any of this on OOC, is disingenuous as well. Considering I made a remark in response to someone about cargos behavior, which then sparked the whole argument about being totally justified.

Suppose I should have heeded the warnings by other cargo players about how badly the cargo clique can react. Maybe I should have listened and stuck out of it if this how it would be. Meta-grudging is not conductive to anything though. Saying I was metagaming based on one statement? That is reaching. 

Now, one last thing

Quote

But again: Even if cargo was threatening the medical player, Val Xiram would have had no knowledge whatsoever of what was happening in the cargo radio. And that is the basis of this player complaint.

As I said before... they did not have any knowledge of what was happening on the cargo radio. This one statement is the entire basis of your complaint and you have not provided even a shred of evidence Val was acting on information obtained from the cargo radio. It was not mentioned or referred to, except in OOC when again... I mentioned I saw it as a ghost. But that was as WickedCybs, not Val Xiram. Be upset all you want about everything else that happened, but you are blatantly lying and coming up with baseless conjecture based on one statement I made in OOC. Is it even relevant that your department was "joking"?. No, it wasn't. Because everything impactful that was learned, were from characters such as Thomson and Summer, and the event in hydroponics that started this all. Cargo was not of any help at all when it came to understanding, your cargo radio communications would not have impacted things much I'm sure. Considering the bulk of this complaint are criticisms and assumptions on the how and why my character acted as they did, rather than anything to back up this complaint's basis, it's rather telling the complaint has its foundations based in malice that things didn't go your way.

Perhaps I'll have more to say later. 

 

 

Edited by WickedCybs
formatting, ack

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Hey, I play Summer; and I do just want to confirm. Val asked Summer what was going on when Summer was walking by hydro to find Taika (Summer heard that Taika was hurt, I can't remember who said it), to find out what was going on. She did explain to Val the situation from her point of view, which by that time she had told to three other people so it was pretty detailed on the whole matter. The claim that we're also some clique is equally frustrating and I can also confirm that Wicked and I have really never spoke outside of the occasional equip in dchat or OOC.

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i shouldn't have to reiterate these two facts:

1. cargo made no threats to any department, at any time, aside from telling taika, "hey, don't beat the shit out of our cargo tech again, or we'll be unhappy."

2. the only hands thrown were at preston, and got him into paincrit, by the antag, for antag reasons.

i want to know where this bs is coming from that cargo was doling out threats like oprah to every department, or that cargo even attacked anyone.

val saw one comment and decided to PDA all of engineering, medical and command that cargo is belligerently violent and threatening the safety of the crew?

you claim to have tried to piece the story together, but completely neglected to hear anything out from cargo, who was attacked in the first place?

if it wasn't metagaming or metagrudge, what even was your, or your character's motivation to make sure every single department had their guns drawn on two dipshit humans and a robot?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, BRAINOS said:

i shouldn't have to reiterate these two facts:

1. cargo made no threats to any department, at any time, aside from telling taika, "hey, don't beat the shit out of our cargo tech again, or we'll be unhappy."

2. the only hands thrown were at preston, and got him into paincrit, by the antag, for antag reasons.

i want to know where this bs is coming from that cargo was doling out threats like oprah to every department, or that cargo even attacked anyone.

val saw one comment and decided to PDA all of engineering, medical and command that cargo is belligerently violent and threatening the safety of the crew?

you claim to have tried to piece the story together, but completely neglected to hear anything out from cargo, who was attacked in the first place?

if it wasn't metagaming or metagrudge, what even was your, or your character's motivation to make sure every single department had their guns drawn on two dipshit humans and a robot?

Yes, apologies for forgetting these. The attacks on my character had me glossing over a few details.

Val only mentioned the "threats" in regards to Thomson. Never said once that they were threatening every other department. The whole "threatening engineering" thing was the captains word, not mine. Though the actions displayed did not have them too confident in what might happen next. As for the second point, yes, this was known. But Thomson and Summer told Val that Prestoff was harassing the medical department. Considering he did not die and Thomson said they kept it light on purpose, they saw it as an entirely deserved albeit misguided response due to the second hand information.

And again, thinking this was all based on one comment? No, it wasn't. I encourage you to read the prior response, but I'll say it again. Cargo certainly was acting belligerent. The statement to Talka? Certainly was threatening crew no matter how you slice it. There was no "We'll be unhappy.". There was a "We'll be back". Completely neglected to hear out cargo? I'm sure listening to the insults of the group and the continued utterances of "Ask questions!" from those who did not ask questions when it came to why medical was acting "boneheaded" would've done my character a whole lot of good. Attacked in the first place? Based on Summer and Thomson's words, it certainly sounded like cargo started the whole situation and a friend was getting revenge, so sympathy was not in the cards.

Anyway, two dipshit humans and a robot? Try one dipshit human and a robot. Prestoff was not even an element Val thought about, beyond being the reason the whole mess happened in the first place. So, what does one do when they see an injustice they want to see corrected? They go to the relevant parties. Command were sent messages. Security was talked to. The whole Eridani PMC thing muddled things somewhat, so the captain herself went to cargo. Everything done was to better ensure the matter would not be overshadowed by antaggary going on throughout the round, and would actually be dealt with rather than fester. That was the motivation, to actually see something done about what Val saw happen in the garden and about the rest of the information pieced together. Nobody who didn't need to know was informed about it. Don't need to scream on common about something you can just hope your higher ups and station security will handle, you know? 

In the end, your character was not even at the garden. We didn't speak at all that round except that bit at the end, yet you act the authority on what went down to cause my character to be upset, as if you saw what you needed to see. Course, you get your information ICly, just like me I hope. Not OOC with the one you know. Decided my character hated you for some reason, when they really didn't even know who you are. Zero reason to care. I was doing other things once the needed messages were sent out, then once at the docks, which was a long time after, obviously you felt the need to shit-stir.

If you act the part of a prick ICly, don't be surprised when you are treated as such and have people seeking consequences for it. Creating a false narrative and pushing it with your friend OOCly? That is not something I expected from the community, but I'm glad It's not overall representative. I hope.

-

This is an edit. I was going to remove the personal attacks from this post, but I figure it should stay up for the benefit of the complaint. I've obviously been getting pretty heated and upset. Apologies again, for that. I'll go ahead and keep things more concise from here on out.

 

 

Edited by WickedCybs
An addition

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1 hour ago, WickedCybs said:

A lot of stuff.

I've been trying to figure out the best way to voice my thoughts on this. There's a bit of back and forth and contradictions going on here, so I'll go through it piece by piece.

 

1 hour ago, WickedCybs said:

Val only mentioned the "threats" in regards to Thomson. Never said once that they were threatening every other department. The whole "threatening engineering" thing was the captains word, not mine. Though the actions displayed did not have them too confident in what might happen next. As for the second point, yes, this was known. But Thomson and Summer told Val that Prestoff was harassing the medical department. Considering he did not die and Thomson said they kept it light on purpose, they saw it as an entirely deserved albeit misguided response due to the second hand information.

I'll say for the Nth time that you did not have all of the context. Neither did Taika, and honestly not even Summer to some extent. I will also say, again, that no one was harassing anyone and it was just some emotions running high, but I'm sure you don't really care about that at this point as you seem to have made up your mind about all of this.

 

1 hour ago, WickedCybs said:

And again, thinking this was all based on one comment? No, it wasn't. I encourage you to read the prior response, but I'll say it again. Cargo certainly was acting belligerent. The statement to Talka? Certainly was threatening crew no matter how you slice it. There was no "We'll be unhappy.". There was a "We'll be back". Completely neglected to hear out cargo? I'm sure listening to the insults of the group and the continued utterances of "Ask questions!" from those who did not ask questions when it came to why medical was acting "boneheaded" would've done my character a whole lot of good. Attacked in the first place? Based on Summer and Thomson's words, it certainly sounded like cargo started the whole situation and a friend was getting revenge, so sympathy was not in the cards.

Saying we were acting belligerent is an extreme reach. The part that you walked in on in the garden was my character talking to a friend who had just beaten her boyfriend into paincrit. Of course she would be upset, but no one was acting "belligerent". There was no "We'll be back" but a "I won't bother trying to talk this out with you if it happens again." Yet again, you did not have the context to anything that was happening but seemed to be going into the situation with your mind made up based on what you had heard on the cargo radio comms. I'll also say that you're being a tad hypocritical if we're in the wrong for not asking medical questions and then also did the same to cargo - We messed up on that point, but as Brainos had said, the miscommunications had been cleared by the time you had joined. People were still frustrated, sure, but there was fuel added to the fire after you had joined. As a side note to this, Taika went on to attack other people on the station - They were an antag and were in the right to do so, but you still seem hung up on the fact that cargo was upset at them for having someone in their department attacked. I guess I just don't see the logic in your character defending an antag the way they did. Maybe at first, but not after they went on to attack others.
 

 

1 hour ago, WickedCybs said:

Anyway, two dipshit humans and a robot? Try one dipshit human and a robot. Prestoff was not even an element Val thought about, beyond being the reason the whole mess happened in the first place. So, what does one do when they see an injustice they want to see corrected? They go to the relevant parties. Command were sent messages. Security was talked to. The whole Eridani PMC thing muddled things somewhat, so the captain herself went to cargo. Everything done was to better ensure the matter would not be overshadowed by antaggary going on throughout the round, and would actually be dealt with rather than fester. That was the motivation, to actually see something done about what Val saw happen in the garden and about the rest of the information pieced together. Nobody who didn't need to know was informed about it. Don't need to scream on common about something you can just hope your higher ups and station security will handle, you know? 


You can't really say that "Prestoff was not an element" and "He was the reason the whole mess started". The statements are just kind of extremely contradictory. Again, based on your comments in OOC, you came into the situation with your mind made up about cargo and I do not believe that you would have so stringently tried to "have cargo brought to justice" had you not taken meta knowledge, but this is just how it appears to me, so take that with a grain of salt. I tried to talk things out with you in OOC after the fact but all I got was hostility and insults, which is another reason why I thought this complaint should be made so that we could clear the air and get things set straight. I am sorry that this comes off as an attack on your character, but I'll say it felt the same way going in my direction.

 

1 hour ago, WickedCybs said:

In the end, your character was not even at the garden. We didn't speak at all that round except that bit at the end, yet you act the authority on what went down to cause my character to be upset, as if you saw what you needed to see. Course, you get your information ICly, just like me I hope. Not OOC with the one you know. Decided my character hated you for some reason, when they really didn't even know who you are. Zero reason to care. I was doing other things once the needed messages were sent out, then once at the docks, which was a long time after, obviously you felt the need to shit-stir.

His character was not at the garden, but was attacked by the gardener. That's the point. The attempt to turn this around and insinuate that Brainos and I were metagaming the situation is frustrating to say the least and feels like a deflection. Yes, his character had IC information. That is all any of our characters ever acted on, but after a round like that we're not NOT going to speak OOCly about it afterwards to try to figure out what the hell just happened. Nat and Preston did not speak to you at all at the docks until you yet again inserted yourself into a situation in which they were venting to a friend.

 

1 hour ago, WickedCybs said:

If you act the part of a prick ICly, don't be surprised when you are treated as such and have people seeking consequences for it. Creating a false narrative and pushing it with your friend OOCly? That is not something I expected from the community, but I'm glad It's not overall representative. I hope.

And you end on another contradiction - You say that your character had zero reason to care about Prestoff, and yet still felt the need to "seek consequences" after hearsay. The namecalling is also not needed here and is just flat out rude. No one is creating a false narrative, we are just trying to explain things from our side of the story because, again, I just want to have this straightened out. Saying our experience is a false narrative is kinda, well. That sucks a lot.

Again, I didn't mean for any of this to be an attack on your character, but when you openly admit OOCly that you were not planning on joining until you heard the radio in cargo, of course we're going to assume that it meant you had been metagaming. What other conclusion would we come to in that situation? You can't say one thing in-game, in OOC, and say something completely different here on the forums.

All I have left to say on this is that the logs will speak for themselves and I'll refrain from posting further until an admin has come in to handle things. If an exact play-by-play is needed to better understand the situation from my POV, I'll happily give one.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Natiform said:

I'll say for the Nth time that you did not have all of the context. Neither did Taika, and honestly not even Summer to some extent. I will also say, again, that no one was harassing anyone and it was just some emotions running high, but I'm sure you don't really care about that at this point as you seem to have made up your mind about all of this.

That is sort of an IC issue then, I'm sure you would agree? This was all an RP matter to me regardless of how poor it went. Your basis is that I'm metagaming, yet It's clear everyone at this point was going off of incomplete information.

51 minutes ago, Natiform said:

Saying we were acting belligerent is an extreme reach. The part that you walked in on in the garden was my character talking to a friend who had just beaten her boyfriend into paincrit. Of course she would be upset, but no one was acting "belligerent". There was no "We'll be back" but a "I won't bother trying to talk this out with you if it happens again." Yet again, you did not have the context to anything that was happening but seemed to be going into the situation with your mind made up based on what you had heard on the cargo radio comms. I'll also say that you're being a tad hypocritical if we're in the wrong for not asking medical questions and then also did the same to cargo - We messed up on that point, but as Brainos had said, the miscommunications had been cleared by the time you had joined. People were still frustrated, sure, but there was fuel added to the fire after you had joined. As a side note to this, Taika went on to attack other people on the station - They were an antag and were in the right to do so, but you still seem hung up on the fact that cargo was upset at them for having someone in their department attacked. I guess I just don't see the logic in your character defending an antag the way they did. Maybe at first, but not after they went on to attack others.

I do not really think it is, and I know what was stated. However it was phrased, it was outright stated you and Courier would be back. Duponte made up Val's mind based on how she acted, and it they certainly seemed hostile to her. Viggo's player has told me they felt the hostility as well, but they do not have a forum account here, so I'm relaying those words.

Val did not approve of Taika attacking other people at all as part of their further antagonist action, so don't claim they did, you never saw Val's interactions with others discussing how what he did was wrong.

51 minutes ago, Natiform said:

You can't really say that "Prestoff was not an element" and "He was the reason the whole mess started". The statements are just kind of extremely contradictory. Again, based on your comments in OOC, you came into the situation with your mind made up about cargo and I do not believe that you would have so stringently tried to "have cargo brought to justice" had you not taken meta knowledge, but this is just how it appears to me, so take that with a grain of salt. I tried to talk things out with you in OOC after the fact but all I got was hostility and insults, which is another reason why I thought this complaint should be made so that we could clear the air and get things set straight. I am sorry that this comes off as an attack on your character, but I'll say it felt the same way going in my direction.

I can. He was not an element to Val, because Val never spoke to him at all. She was more focused on Duponte and Courier. She can still do that and acknowledge he is one of the focal points since the entire reason the garden incident even happened was due to Taika harming him.

As for the OOC chatter, I did not really say any insults? I just stated my thoughts on everything after the fact. Then we ceased the discussion after we were told to stop. I was being spoken to by about three people at the same time so it was kind of hard to focus on any one specific person. It's not a good place for an actual discussion.

Anyway, all else I can say is that Val absolutely would have tried to have justice brought to cargo, whether I ghosted or not. Val is one of my characters who just does what they think is right rather than act the bystander. Things are more interesting that way.

51 minutes ago, Natiform said:

His character was not at the garden, but was attacked by the gardener. That's the point. The attempt to turn this around and insinuate that Brainos and I were metagaming the situation is frustrating to say the least and feels like a deflection. Yes, his character had IC information. That is all any of our characters ever acted on, but after a round like that we're not NOT going to speak OOCly about it afterwards to try to figure out what the hell just happened. Nat and Preston did not speak to you at all at the docks until you yet again inserted yourself into a situation in which they were venting to a friend.

I apologize, but that is really what it seems like to me. Especially with these accusations considering I have only acted on IC information as well.

As for what happened to the docks? You were "venting" to Val's friend and boss, Roadman. Inquiring as to if the engineering department still "hated cargo". How would it feel if I was loudly saying to Roadman how irritating cargo was? You absolutely would have tried to defend yourself, and I'd have expected you to.

51 minutes ago, Natiform said:

And you end on another contradiction - You say that your character had zero reason to care about Prestoff, and yet still felt the need to "seek consequences" after hearsay. The namecalling is also not needed here and is just flat out rude. No one is creating a false narrative, we are just trying to explain things from our side of the story because, again, I just want to have this straightened out. Saying our experience is a false narrative is kinda, well. That sucks a lot.

Yes, seek consequences on the two I saw. Based on not only hearsay, but the behaviour displayed at the garden. It was reason enough.

Your accusations are that everything I have done was to screw over you and your friend. It hinges on me being a malicious actor who only wanted to screw over your round. That is far from the case and since it is the basis of your complaint, well that is what I am focusing on. It is what is it is. It does suck a lot to be reduced to that by a group of, from what I hear, long standing players saying my actions were in the defence of some clique, especially when I kind of barely know anyone OOC beyond chatter.

51 minutes ago, Natiform said:

Again, I didn't mean for any of this to be an attack on your character, but when you openly admit OOCly that you were not planning on joining until you heard the radio in cargo, of course we're going to assume that it meant you had been metagaming. What other conclusion would we come to in that situation? You can't say one thing in-game, in OOC, and say something completely different here on the forums.

I cannot really say I have any perfect recall here. I'll reiterate that I was on the fence about joining, didn't like what I was seeing regarding cargo but eventually just joined because I figured it'd be interesting with all the psionically activated people. That was why I joined as Val. The logs will show me debating on whether to join as a HoP instead, but I concluded to myself that'd be a pretty bad idea, bordering metagamey based on how that would impact the round.

So this is all still based on one statement made, and even if hypothetically that was the trigger to me joining, there was still zero out of round information used after the fact, the logs will certainly prove that. Cargo dug its own grave, I did not seek them out and that all could've been avoided if the pair in the garden did not open with hostility in the face of a concerned onlooker who heard they were threatening another, but instead kept it civil and cleared things up.

In the end, if I was really so focused on a group of players to ruin their round, I ought to have done more to hamper them. Once all was said and done, I had a rather enjoyable time in engineering exploring the dynamics of non-Skrell with psionics. I can also promise you at this point, I will simply stay out of your way when possible since I'm sure this will have your group second guessing whatever I do.

 

 

Edited by WickedCybs
a few more words

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Alright, I've reviewed the logs and gathered a general progression of events. It was about a 10 minute conversation before it was reported to the Chief Engineer.

1. Val woke up in cryo to the middle of the conversation at this time.

[2020-03-10 03:06:40.965] b57-ajF4 ACCESS: Login: wickedcybs/(abstract mob) from IP:xxxxxxxx || BYOND v512

2. Val stayed out of their own curiosity with Taika being psionically active. 

3. Conversation is going with Val idly listening to it.

4. Val telepathically communicates with Taika telling to not trust cargo five minutes later with no previous context.

[2020-03-10 03:11:09.839] b57-ajF4 SAY: wickedcybs/(Val Xiram) communed to ---------/(Taika Thomson): Do not trust cargo, though.

5. Val enters an argument claiming that cargo was harassing Taika despite them previously admitting that they DID attack Preston in response to previous conversation.
 

[2020-03-10 03:08:48.922] b57-ajF4 SAY: ---------/(Taika Thomson) : (Ceti Basic) I don't think you're going to get an apology out of me for my action, but I should have stopped at one prod.

6. Val tells Oliver that cargo is harassing Taika and medical, which progressed to the entirety of the station going against cargo.

[2020-03-10 03:16:05.834] b57-ajF4 SAY: wickedcybs/(Val Xiram) : (Ceti Basic) Roadman, get cargo under control if you can.
[2020-03-10 03:16:09.603] b57-ajF4 SAY: wickedcybs/(Val Xiram) : (Ceti Basic) They are harassing people.
[2020-03-10 03:16:25.250] b57-ajF4 SAY: wickedcybs/(Val Xiram) : (Ceti Basic) Currently yelling at Thomson.
[2020-03-10 03:16:31.332] b57-ajF4 SAY: wickedcybs/(Val Xiram) : (Ceti Basic) For backing up medical after they harrassed them as a department.
[2020-03-10 03:17:51.417] b57-ajF4 SAY: wickedcybs/(Val Xiram) : (Ceti Basic) Apparently they have been acting against medical too.
(Engineering Communications)

I conclude that @WickedCybs was in fact metagaming during this particular instance and ICly reporting information that they have no IC context for.

1. Val did not ask for any context. They casually sat in the conversation before telepathically communicating with Taika asking if they'd like to call security.

2. The conversation was a disagreement between both sides. Cargo wasn't happy Taika attacked Preston, which Taika admitted to attacking Preston.

3. I see no context in the bases of medical being harassed. There was only brief mentions about how Summer was a bitch and the worst Preston could do was stop a shipment.

 

Due to previous notes about metagaming behavior, I will be placing a warning against WickedCybs. Their character, Val Xiram, had zero context of the situation. This leads me to believe that WickedCybs was using information from observing when reporting cargo to command. This lead to the entire station negatively interacting with the department. Nor did they have a conversation with Viggo during this ten minute time frame.

 

[2020-03-10 02:47:06.317] b57-ajF4 SAY: Ghost/wickedcybs : cargo doesn't value their jobs and is telling command/medical to go fuck themselves
[2020-03-10 02:47:15.479] b57-ajF4 SAY: Ghost/wickedcybs : because they wish to protect the poor, poor unathi
(Ten minutes before they respawned into the round)

 

Unless something else is brought up, I will be locking and archiving this complaint in 24 hours. 

 

 

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Really only a few things I have to add.

1. Asking for the context sort of comes after addressing an immediate threat and making the other comfortable. So again, they got their context after that, from others. Would rather make someone comfortable first.

2. Already known.

3. Didn't hear any of that ICly, again. Was going off of what was stated by Summer and Taika. Taika especially since by the point those radio statements were made, their words were what Val knew.

Other than that, Viggo was there, I distinctly remember the back and forth and then the last meeting with them outside the brig when Taika pursued further antagonist action, should be there in the logs, though his presence was minor during the main thing. As for the bit at the end? I did say I was observing here and there, didn't like what I saw. Commentary on the round is just that, commentary. The basis here was whether another statement "revealed" that I wanted to join the round earlier based on an OOC comment, to metagame.

Annnd that's about it 👋

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Taika's player here. Yeah, most of this was being an antag with a pretty persuasive cortical borer. However, that being said, this really looked like a game of telephone gone bad at every corner. 
I don't know if Val was the weakest link, but somehow everything got out of order to such an extent the cortical borer brought me info I didn't see, but I trusted OOCLY because:
1. I know I get shit for this, and I'm not trying to use it as a crutch, but I'm legally blind. It does effect my situational awareness. I just do my best.

2. Taika did admit to attacking Preston, but tried to play off being in the right. So, depending where they entered that convo, Val would have had a very different impression. It didn't turn violent however. At least, no more than a high school cafeteria argument.

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sonic's post was very enlightening and confirmed my suspicions.

taika did great, and everything they did, to my knowledge, had a clear motivation, whether that's just what taika would do or general antaggery, they did a good job at providing and escalating conflict in the round.

val, however, i cannot see why they'd wake up and hop out of cryo with the first thing on their mind being "don't trust cargo," and interpreting "hey don't assault us" as such a serious danger that they need to notify command staff, which is the beef of this complaint without the salt. 

from our perspective, it seemed like cybs didn't like what cargo was doing while observing and deliberately injected val into the situation with the intent to interfere. at no point did val even attempt to get both sides of the story, because their mind was already made up based on what they'd observed. 

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1 hour ago, Estoytrucha said:

Taika's player here. Yeah, most of this was being an antag with a pretty persuasive cortical borer. However, that being said, this really looked like a game of telephone gone bad at every corner. 
I don't know if Val was the weakest link, but somehow everything got out of order to such an extent the cortical borer brought me info I didn't see, but I trusted OOCLY because:
1. I know I get shit for this, and I'm not trying to use it as a crutch, but I'm legally blind. It does effect my situational awareness. I just do my best.

2. Taika did admit to attacking Preston, but tried to play off being in the right. So, depending where they entered that convo, Val would have had a very different impression. It didn't turn violent however. At least, no more than a high school cafeteria argument.

Just wanted to confirm what Brainos already did and let you know that there's no bad blood between us. You were in the right to act the way you did as an antag, and I hope you know how much I adore Taika as a character 😄

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That would be because it was not the first thing on their mind. The logs certainly show they didn't interject with anything until the threat was uttered. Reducing what was said to "Hey don't assault us." is still false. As for getting both sides of the story, like I said earlier, the hostility and what limited context those at the garden deigned to provide did not give them hopes for any civil conversation.

I separate myself from my characters, always. I am glad at least the bad faith arguments of being in a clique has not had the others warned, whatever is thought.

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We can argue in circles all we want, but I really don't think it will get us anywhere. You obviously have no intention of changing your mind on the matter, but I will say that the logs speak for themselves and the objective of this thread has been met.

I am fine with this being locked and archived.

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I only referred to what was mentioned by your group. There was no shadow clique out to ruin your round, as proven by multiple players at this point. Whether you think so or not, that's up to you I suppose.

 

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No additional points have been brought up and we don't need a loose thread open with circling disagreement when the decision has been concluded.

Locking and Archiving

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