2 dismissals Rename "Pre-cyborgification procedure" to "Remove memory"

[Colfer]

Sure, it might be a pre-cyborgification procedure, but instead of naming it something that narrows its suspected uses down to something extremely niche and rare, tell people what it actually does when you preform it, so people can actually use this in round and know what will happen when they do. I dont want to preform multiple "Pre-cyborgification procedures" on people, I want to remove their memories for one reason or another. It has nothing to do with cyborgification if you arent using it for cyborgification. This operation should be clerified to roboticist/mechanists who are preforming the procedure in written or wiki pages.

The reason I suggest this is that I loved doing "Lobotomy" procedures on people as a ninja, and then telling them who they were in their previous life, but the current rename of "Lobotomy" to "Pre-cyborgification procedure" seems really unfitting for what I use it for, and I believe other people dont know/use it because they believe that it can only be used for cyborgification.

[Faye <3]

Removing someone's memory - in essence, making them unable to play their character in a way that isn't just killing them - is very uninteresting as well as borderline griefing of another person's round imo, and reminds me of the way I felt when a wizard staff of change'd someone into a different species. I think this is a bad idea for that reason.

[Carver]

22 hours ago, Faye &lt;3 said:

Removing someone's memory - in essence, making them unable to play their character in a way that isn't just killing them - is very uninteresting as well as borderline griefing of another person's round imo, and reminds me of the way I felt when a wizard staff of change'd someone into a different species. I think this is a bad idea for that reason.

I'm not sure how that's related to the suggestion though. This would simply be renaming an existing mechanic/procedure to more accurately reflect what it does, he didn't suggest any actual mechanical changes.

[Colfer]

For reference, the text you get when your memories are removed is this:
As part of your brain is drilled out, you feel your past self, your memories, your very being slip away...

Your brain has been surgically altered to remove your memory recall. Your ability to recall your former life has been surgically removed from your brain, and while your brain is in this state you remember nothing that ever came before this moment.
 

[Triogenix]

Yea, as Carver said nothing new is being added, this is just renaming an existing procedure. And the rename makes sense, I give a +1

[Gem]

On 04/05/2022 at 23:28, Colfer said:

<snip>

On 05/05/2022 at 22:01, Carver said:

<snip>

17 hours ago, Colfer said:

<snip>

4 hours ago, Triogenix said:

<snip>

"Once the procedure is completed, the MMI controls chemical levels and electronic activity in the brain to produce desired results in the form of thoughts and actions. Laws also dictate how the unit proceeds, as it is still consciously aware of itself."
from the wiki.

"As the braincase comes online, you feel your sense of self ebbing away, your memories suppressed by the onboard software."
"As the suppression systems go offline, your memories of your past life start flooding back..." (when emagging).
from "code/modules/mob/living/carbon/brain/MMI.dm".

"MMIs have been redone to be braincases instead of simple brain-cradles. They have a new description and a new process of completion. Examining it will give you step-by-step instructions. You no longer need to prepare the brain externally either."
"Brain lobotomization has been renamed to be brain preparation."
from geeves' PR on the 5th of june 2021.

hence, it isn't a lobotomy. it isn't the removal of memories either. it's memory suppression, which is done by the MMI itself and not any surgery.

[Colfer]

1 hour ago, Gem said:

hence, it isn't a lobotomy. it isn't the removal of memories either. it's memory suppression, which is done by the MMI itself and not any surgery.

I do not understand this comment.

19 hours ago, Colfer said:

As part of your brain is drilled out, you feel your past self, your memories, your very being slip away...

Your brain has been surgically altered to remove your memory recall. Your ability to recall your former life has been surgically removed from your brain, and while your brain is in this state you remember nothing that ever came before this moment.

"Your brain has been surgically altered to remove your memory recall." And this is a surgery procedure currently in the game (pre-cyborgification procedure) (surgical drill while brain is exposed). This is the exact text that "Pre-cyborgification procedure" gives the victim of the procedure. It is true that this is done by the MMI, which gives all the more reason why this procedure should be renamed.

[Gem]

53 minutes ago, Colfer said:

I do not understand this comment.

it is as written.

 

53 minutes ago, Colfer said:

"Your brain has been surgically altered to remove your memory recall." [...] This is the exact text that "Pre-cyborgification procedure" gives the victim of the procedure.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Gem

[Colfer]

What I am trying to say is that I don't know how this is relevant to the post at hand. It doesn't have to do with MMI's or lobotomies. It has to do with renaming the procedure, and the proceedure states that it removes memory recall, which is effectively memories. 

[Gem]

42 minutes ago, Colfer said:

What I am trying to say is that I don't know how this is relevant to the post at hand. It doesn't have to do with MMI's or lobotomies. It has to do with renaming the procedure, and the proceedure states that it removes memory recall, which is effectively memories. 

if you read my posts, you would know that the surgery doesn't affect memory recall anymore, the MMI does instead, through software. and even then it's just suppression until its turned off. the wiki entry regarding the procedure just hasn't been updated since geeves' PR, thus its info is outdated (this is being fixed btw).

you are claiming the operation/surgery affects memory recall, that its a lobotomy, and/or that the one who has the surgery permitted on them has their memory recall affected because of a message shown to them, when this isn't the case (see my last two posts for why).

i.e. it is very much a "Pre-Cyborgification Procedure", or if you want to be more correct, a "Man-Machine Interface Compatibility Procedure".

Edited May 8, 2022 by Gem

[Arrow768]

Voting for dismissal due to the reason stated by @Gem

In addition to that I am concerned that renaming it to „memory removal surgery“ indicates to players that this can (and should) be used outside of borgification.

[MattAtlas]

Voting for dismissal. This is going to give people the idea that this surgery should be used outside of cyborgification (which it should not). I don't want to see it used that way nor do I want to deal with it, as it'll be extremely uninteresting if not downright removal from the round without murder (remember CMD and how unfun it was for everyone involved? This is that, but worse).

[Colfer]

If this shouldn't be used outside of cyborgification, and the MMI is the suppressing factor, than why does this surgery even need to exist? If it is on an OOC level, not supposed to be used and actively discouraged to be used for the unintended (BUT STILL VERY REAL) purpose of removing peoples memories, why have it in the first place? Sure renaming it would give people the idea that this surgery can be used outside cyborgification, but perhaps the surgery could be renamed and the text could be reflavored to go along with it, suggesting that the persons memories are extremely fuzzy, and they cant fully recall many details about their life, thus not completely removing player agency from the victim, and still allowing them to play the character they made, albeit at a reduced capacity. 

What im struggling to understand is why this surgical procedure exists in the code at all if its absolutely abhorrent to use it outside of cyborgification, if the MMI already does this procedure in the first place.