Remove security's uniform regulations

[Boggle08]

25 minutes ago, Marlon P. said:

The visuals of our sprites is the most immediate way for a player to express their character, even more than flavortext. More control/freedom in how they dress will be good.

Eh, we can't ignore the utilitarian function of visuals. It's best if I don't have to shift examine just to tell if it's an officer. If something comes of this thread, it's likely going to be substituting a dress code for the uniform mandate.

21 minutes ago, Marlon P. said:

NT could be fine with skirts if we chose. For most of human history women wearing pants was a crime.

Lol. Lmao. Maybe if it doesn't get in the way of all the body armor security has to wear on code blue onwards. I don't want to see black tango dress officers in heels.

[Marlon P.]

43 minutes ago, Boggle08 said:

Eh, we can't ignore the utilitarian function of visuals. It's best if I don't have to shift examine just to tell if it's an officer. If something comes of this thread, it's likely going to be substituting a dress code for the uniform mandate.

Oh i dont disagree at all. Something that screams "IM SEC" at all 4 orientations of a sprite.

43 minutes ago, Boggle08 said:

I don't want to see black tango dress officers in heels.

Counterpoint on the skirt.... but we agree on the heels not being reasonable.....

 

Lol ok but yeah i getcha totally fair im just pointing out its entirely a cultural matter and dress codes dont HAVE to be how we have them for sec.

 

Edit:

Video is relevant to OP and above posts to illustrate portrayals of non-aurora standard based dress codes in other media and societies.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Marlon P.

[Dreamix]

Okay. I want to reiterate my point/stance on this.

I'd love it if sec officers had to wear faction colors and/or accessories, so they're easily identifiable that they are security, on a first glance. This would allow lots of freedom, while at the same time, having officers be easily identifiable as security.

- Want shorts? They should be green if you're Idris. Or white, with green accessories, etc. You get the idea.
- No wearing brown/blue-gray/red as PCMG, as those are Zavod colors. Or jade-green/white as Zavod, as those are Idris colors. Etc, etc.
- Want a full business suit? That's a bit weird I guess, but you better reference the company colors somehow, like with a tie, gloves, shirt, headwear, or something.
- Just the standard gray assistant's jumpsuit? Sure, if you wear company accessories, like the awesome Idris labcoat or something.
- Normal jacket over the default uniform? Sure.

 

Being restricted to only the default clothes that they start with would definitely suck, since there's no variations right now.

And also the whole confusion and mess with the uniforms PRs or whatever, really needs to be un-confused and un-messed.

Also... The security factions really lack some of the clothes options, that are seen in other departments. Like the "department jackets selection" or "poncho selection".

[WickedCybs]

Would say the better idea out of all this is essentially keeping security to a consistent theme and having them in their corporate colours. On that note, it would be pretty good to provide a solid list of colour values on each megacorp page anyway. 

I don't really buy into the fearmongering that this would relax standards to the point that people will feel emboldened to start wearing skirts/shorts and whatever else. Those have always had people take notice faster, and on subject of skirts, has been enough of a problem where we actually do talk to people about it since that doesn't really make a lot of sense. We can more than easily take a look at things like this. If the price is being less laissez faire overall about the regulation mainly being an in character thing that is okay to me.

[SinfulBehaviors]

18 hours ago, WickedCybs said:

If you believe that's what is actually being argued for, you may have missed the bit of the main post which still advocated for an overall business casual style. 

 

i mean, Ronald Monday was wearing short shorts for a while. It's not unheard of.

[WickedCybs]

35 minutes ago, SinfulBehaviors said:

i mean, Ronald Monday was wearing short shorts for a while. It's not unheard of.

Whether it was unheard of isn't really relevant. Again, there is nothing in this thread advocating for security to totally relax its restrictions. Nobody has said that people wearing short shorts has never happened before.

This does just seem to reinforce the point here that people that do want to cross the line will do so and that giving more options isn't going to suddenly open the floodgates.

Edited June 3, 2022 by WickedCybs

[Zelmana]

The pendulum swings!

This is the type of suggestions that we will get when you nueter the uniform options. It's almost like we struck a balance by having a healthy option of uniform styles that also were able to be fairly identifiable as security. 

[Flpfs]

On 02/06/2022 at 13:06, Marlon P. said:

The visuals of our sprites is the most immediate way for a player to express their character, even more than flavortext. More control/freedom in how they dress will be good.

"Corporate regs say" is a misnomer because corporate regs can be whatever we want. NT is not real not does it have to follow 2022 american dress standards imagined by young adults. NT could be fine with skirts if we chose. For most of human history women wearing pants was a crime.

Culture changes.

Let our culture give security sweaters and flannel shirts.

NOW.

 

I am against this change because we will surely get people abusing good faith and we'll begin seeing the cringe screenshot merry go round of officers wearing dresses, cheongsams, short shorts, cat t-shirts and more.

The skirt idea is especially bad, skirt jumpsuits are literally a Skyrat idea, not fit for an actual HRP server. Sec is not meant to be a bunch of secretaries nor beach boys, regularly security engages in gunfights, dragging people away from danger, physical combat with antags and much more. Having them be dressed up like they're about to hang out at the mall is dumb.

"NT is not real" is a bad argument. We base all of our judgements on our real life experiences, you cannot come up with lore based off of nothing. Literally all our thoughts are influenced by our previous experiences, and in real life we do see security guards dressing professionally because it makes sense. You do not see paramedics, police or firemen in real life wearing high heels and a t-shirt, not because of "oppressive regulations" but because of safety standards and uniformization, which makes professionals easier to be seen in an emergency situation.

It is very obvious that the contractors would want their employees to look professional and represent their parent company, and uniforms are a part of that. Players who regularly disregard this IC rule should be punished OOCly, because it is unbelievable that a character would regularly violate one of their job's requirements and still remain employed.

 

[Peppermint]

The only time I've ever seen it OOCly enforced was back when we had separate rules for contractors. Other than that, I've never seen anybody really care and removing it would just make it official. Especially as sec has gone from having some of the best uniform sprites to some of the absolute worst since the changes, I'd be more likely to raise my eyebrows at folks using them than not.

I also think the people getting uppity about skirts and feminine wear for security or otherwise have zero actual idea how a) women work and b) how women's clothing works due to the sheer amount of BS that they come out with, but I've died on that hill already and some arguments just aren't worth it. That 'let's relax uniforms' always leads to 'but then people will wear skirts!!!' is also pretty damning as to where thoughts come from in these cases, but hey.

Plus, so many of the arguments of why sec should use their uniforms work for every other department, where it seems character freedom of expression and lore is much more important, as it should be. I'd much rather see some cool outfits the player has come up with to show off their character's personality and heritage than boring jumpsuits for 'muh realism', which is very much not the reason I'd imagine many people play Aurora for anyway. So long as it's identifiable as security in some small way, I don't see any problem.

Though I am against corp colours as a new goal post. A lot of them are pretty garish and unfortunate, so forcing that would just recreate the issue with a new taste - some kind of beret, emblem, whatever should work just fine.

[Zelmana]

As this is an IC matter, I have historically always dealt with this ICly as Command.

Some rules are more solid than others. While yes, there is a uniform rule, this is typically only broken out when a Cadet is wearing jeans and a flannel on duty. Otherwise, it is overlooked as long as the player character looks professional and is appropriately dressed. Investigators always have a pass, yet some officers can have some flair- i.e. cowboy hat and boots, a scarf, even an entirely customized colored jumpsuit if appropriately "meshing" with the rest of the uniform (belt, a beret or hat, definitely a badge).

There is some desire for rule following Idris sticklers to be able to roleplay looking down on dregs who bend the corporate policy, and this scenario would remove some of that. I would wish we keep the policy.

[Marlon P.]

18 hours ago, Flpfs said:

 

I am against this change because we will surely get people abusing good faith and we'll begin seeing the cringe screenshot merry go round of officers wearing dresses, cheongsams, short shorts, cat t-shirts and more.

The skirt idea is especially bad, skirt jumpsuits are literally a Skyrat idea, not fit for an actual HRP server. Sec is not meant to be a bunch of secretaries nor beach boys, regularly security engages in gunfights, dragging people away from danger, physical combat with antags and much more. Having them be dressed up like they're about to hang out at the mall is dumb.

"NT is not real" is a bad argument. We base all of our judgements on our real life experiences, you cannot come up with lore based off of nothing. Literally all our thoughts are influenced by our previous experiences, and in real life we do see security guards dressing professionally because it makes sense. You do not see paramedics, police or firemen in real life wearing high heels and a t-shirt, not because of "oppressive regulations" but because of safety standards and uniformization, which makes professionals easier to be seen in an emergency situation.

It is very obvious that the contractors would want their employees to look professional and represent their parent company, and uniforms are a part of that. Players who regularly disregard this IC rule should be punished OOCly, because it is unbelievable that a character would regularly violate one of their job's requirements and still remain employed.

 

I didn't say NT isn't real as a reason. I said dress codes are cultural thing and can be whatever we want.

And, skirts and heels used to be required attire for lady cops. In many places lady cops still have the option to wear skirts. It's realistic. That said, I don't think heels would be a good idea either. Nor would a cheongsams because that's a formal dress.

This isnt a realism problem. Its a personal taste problem.

Youre also being uncharitable. This isnt a suggestion to abolish all uniform regulations. Letting amoryblaine wear jeans when he clocks in as sec will hardly lead to rampant abuse of helpless admins and unenforcable clothing-based chaos.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Marlon P.

[Rookie Eyes]

So if I am understanding correctly the point of this thread is to loosen the often unenforced regulation that security members must be fully in uniform at all times. If that's correct then I agree - security members shouldn't be required to be fully in uniform because I think it stifles player creativity for almost no actual gain ICly. In the case of players taking advantage of command leniency the punishment ICly should only fall on the character rather than the department as a whole. 

I agree with the people saying that within reason characters should be allowed some leniency with their clothing so long as they are identifiable as an officer at a glance, and are dressed in a way that still allows them to perform their job duties. 

[Tristan63]

I support this as the current sec uniforms aren't very good, im sorry but they just aren't.