Science Remap

[Rabid Animal]

There are currently a few remap projects in place and I wanted to wait till after the security remap was done to mess around too much with this idea, BUT; seeing as there is a another small remap that posted and minor sec changes will likely happen for the next little while, I figure I'd get some feedback on some vague sketches so I had a plan going into this.

The sketch below was my personal favorite of what I'd done, the actual position of everything remains mostly the same but the layouts change quite a bit. Things might need to be scooted around to account for the extra space security now takes up but this still feels like a good start.

 

Red is science, blue is maintenance, black is walls and items, white is doors.

 

General Science;

• Rnd is moved closer to the desk
• Circuits gets a wider, more dedicated space
• Chem swaps sides

Administration;

• The AI entrance shrinks a little bit to make up for chem taking up more room
• The AI waiting room is much smaller
• RD office is unchanged
• The server room is pushed back behind xenobot/xenobio

Common areas;

• Meeting room is nudged over and made slightly bigger
• Science storage is totally removed. The lockers inside of it are moved to the "general science" space save for the weapon lockers which will be moved to the science firing range
• Science now has a break room. Celibrate.

Xenobotany;

• Total layout change, the secure entrance is nixed entirely and replaced with an isolation room for dangerous plants
• The lab is moved closer to general plants, making it easier to run back and forth
• Overall the layout mimics the old map slightly

Xenobiology;

This is the only area that I felt needed any real additions. The actual slime pens are 10/10 and the closeness of everything feels nice, HOWEVER, xenobiology has the potential to be a little more than slimes. Elaborated below.

• The entrance is shrunk down to make room for an actual lab. At the moment there is no mechanical purpose behind it, though this can change with hopeful additions.
• In addition to that, the surgical room is expanded and changed into a dissection room. As there is a slime core extractor, there is no reason for xenobiology to have a surgical room, so this makes it feel more justified. 
• They are given an auxiliary pen, something to store any non-slime research projects.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

I’m down for this. Contact me on discord and I will start a mock-up/WIP PR while feedback is gathered.

[Rabid Animal]

PR here; https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/16099

[limette]

I'll be honest; I hate this.

Science being split off into its own corridor rather than in the central ring is already pretty bad. Most of the interaction we get right now is at the RND desk and from people walking up.
Splintering telesci and chemistry away from RND, which is again historically the core of the department, also serves to split up internal interactions and limit things further; nevermind that chemistry is now behind two access-locked airlocks as well, meaning you won't get to see the public anymore at all. Telesci also seems to be set up so that you can't really interact with the hall while operating it.
As a xenoarch main, and perhaps the second longest-standing one after CNEGecko, I really liked the first deck being accessible to the public (with all the scary bad things behind glass so you can't get to them.) It allowed for a lot of interaction with people helping with anomalies, and I generally preferred it as a storage area for changelings and the like when RD for this reason - people could come in and out and interact, rather than being trapped in the xenobio cuck cage.

I do like unnecessary things like the giant storage room being cut to size, and xenobio + xenobot are substantial improvements to a massive degree, but in general this seems like it'd slash interaction by stuffing science into a separate, less likely to be trafficked corridor and then locking half of it behind access.

Edited March 25, 2023 by limette

[Agatasa]

As a machinist player I like the workshop move. It's a much more sensible location for part of operations.

In this PR Science is not by the atrium, which is designed to interchange all these connections, but via a 2-wide side hallway that connects four major traffic sources(res deck, everything connected via the atrium, and two departments). This is poor traffic design.

The science/machinist/security maintenance area was already severely compacted, but now it's all featureless and 1-tile wide. Most of this area was taken up by redundant hallway space and closet areas. I think it could have been left somewhat intact.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

8 hours ago, limette said:

I'll be honest; I hate this.

Science being split off into its own corridor rather than in the central ring is already pretty bad. Most of the interaction we get right now is at the RND desk and from people walking up.
Splintering telesci and chemistry away from RND, which is again historically the core of the department, also serves to split up internal interactions and limit things further; nevermind that chemistry is now behind two access-locked airlocks as well, meaning you won't get to see the public anymore at all. Telesci also seems to be set up so that you can't really interact with the hall while operating it.
As a xenoarch main, and perhaps the second longest-standing one after CNEGecko, I really liked the first deck being accessible to the public (with all the scary bad things behind glass so you can't get to them.) It allowed for a lot of interaction with people helping with anomalies, and I generally preferred it as a storage area for changelings and the like when RD for this reason - people could come in and out and interact, rather than being trapped in the xenobio cuck cage.

I do like unnecessary things like the giant storage room being cut to size, and xenobio + xenobot are substantial improvements to a massive degree, but in general this seems like it'd slash interaction by stuffing science into a separate, less likely to be trafficked corridor and then locking half of it behind access.

The closed off design will not impact role play or exposure in anyway because Xenobot and Xenobio are already restricted areas. Exploratory chemistry is the only “loss” here, and it was to give them more space rather than the closet they’ve been working with. 
 

RnD is still easily accessible, and the department has their own lobby - similar to engineering, to encourage people to sit and hangout. 

[ReadThisNamePlz]

6 hours ago, Agatasa said:

As a machinist player I like the workshop move. It's a much more sensible location for part of operations.

In this PR Science is not by the atrium, which is designed to interchange all these connections, but via a 2-wide side hallway that connects four major traffic sources(res deck, everything connected via the atrium, and two departments). This is poor traffic design.

The science/machinist/security maintenance area was already severely compacted, but now it's all featureless and 1-tile wide. Most of this area was taken up by redundant hallway space and closet areas. I think it could have been left somewhat intact.

See above.

moving a hallways entrance up and disconnecting it from the main square by a single airlock isn’t going to break the flow of traffic, it’s just going to redirect it.
 

the maintenance tunnel will be tweaked, I’ll see what I can do. 

[party]

How do you feel traffic will be redirected? The current setup in the central ring routes players past the RnD desk and the machinist workshop if they're moving between the elevator/engineering and security/the stairwell. The new setup requires that players make the choice to visit RnD; traffic doesn't need to pass through there at any point, you can't see inside RnD from the central ring except from a couple tiles next to the windows, and there's nowhere else to go in that hallway if you don't have research access. 

 

Engineering lobby doesn't really feel like a good counterpoint. It's very uncommon for anyone to just be hanging out outside their monitoring room unless they've got business there--which isn't usually a problem, at least, since engineering is called on often to handle problems that keep them from being cut off from the events of a round.

[Gem]

i think research is fine as-is.

[KingOfThePing]

I agree with gem

 

if it has to be remapped then I agree with limette.

[Nagito Komaeda]

Relatively new and I mainly play Xenobotany, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I think the general layout is more interesting: R&D, Circuitry and the Server Room being in the same location seems fitting to me. I personally like the 'central' meeting room. It just gives a certain vibe. Separating Chemistry, in my opinion, is also good. However let me make clear that I mainly interact with Xenobotany and R&D.

Xenobiology looks great! Increased space to work with other lifeforms, as well as having an observation room creates much more RP. Xenobotany is amazing, from my view. More trays, less roundabout walking (god, I love Xenobotany but walking for half the round to actually process your reagents will be the devil).

I can understand the feedback given by others, though! Research does get a bit closed off now, no? Perhaps it's possible to do a change like this? Open up the normal airlock where the 'containment airlock' was before, and move the containment one to here. Maybe add a ringer here as well, so that Xenobiology/Botany/Chemistry can link to it to take requests? That way, Limette's concern of Xenoarchaeology being inaccessible is alleviated.

I can't really speak on the new design of Telescience, it's a bit less roundabout, I suppose.

Also, I feel this little nook here is going to be VERY annoying, not sure if something can be done about that, but that's an opinion moreso than fact.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

1 minute ago, Nagito Komaeda said:

Relatively new and I mainly play Xenobotany, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I think the general layout is more interesting: R&D, Circuitry and the Server Room being in the same location seems fitting to me. I personally like the 'central' meeting room. It just gives a certain vibe. Separating Chemistry, in my opinion, is also good. However let me make clear that I mainly interact with Xenobotany and R&D.

Xenobiology looks great! Increased space to work with other lifeforms, as well as having an observation room creates much more RP. Xenobotany is amazing, from my view. More trays, less roundabout walking (god, I love Xenobotany but walking for half the round to actually process your reagents will be the devil).

I can understand the feedback given by others, though! Research does get a bit closed off now, no? Perhaps it's possible to do a change like this? Open up the normal airlock where the 'containment airlock' was before, and move the containment one to here. Maybe add a ringer here as well, so that Xenobiology/Botany/Chemistry can link to it to take requests? That way, Limette's concern of Xenoarchaeology being inaccessible is alleviated.

I can't really speak on the new design of Telescience, it's a bit less roundabout, I suppose.

Also, I feel this little nook here is going to be VERY annoying, not sure if something can be done about that, but that's an opinion moreso than fact.

I like these changes. I’ll make this happen, while still having the other airlock in place in order to allow proper lockdown of the “Research Wing”

[ReadThisNamePlz]

The issues that have been brought up are all relatively easy to fix. I will have changes/alterations up soon.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

The containment airlock now has no access requirements at all, but can be bolted down by someone who wants to do a "soft lock" as long as they have RnD (7) access. This means all of science staff can close it down if they want to. Of course, The Captain, a warrant from security, or the Director can remove this lock by simply pressing a button. It is similar to the Xenobio doors. 

[Hunt]

If I can give my two cents, I am not the biggest fan of the layout for this remap.

I do not play research so I will try/stray from providing feedback based on the size of fabrication, xenobiology, etc.

However, my main concerns are the major removal of maintenance areas and the huge but unnecessary hallways that now are within Research. First off, comparing the old -> new images shows that research was shifted two tiles to the right but also expanded into the entirety of the maintenance that was previously beside xenobiology. There is a loss of something like 72 maintenance tiles minimum, making the present issue with the Horizon map (the lack of maintenance for antags) worse. I do not see a reason for research needing to expand by so many tiles, where it is either equal to or now surpassing the size of engineering. A solution to this could be the removal of that center ring that research has now in your map, moving the meeting room to the side, and filling in the space with maintenance areas for antag mischief/blank space.

 

Second, in part to the above issues I have with the remap, there are so many hallways in research now that seem to do nothing but take up space. The current map has a single central hall, which extends all the way through deck-2 research and connects all the labs by that same hall. There is now a hallway connected to the elevator area, a hallway going to the research central ring, hallways all around the research meeting room, and a hallway going towards xeno bot/bio.  All in all I would rather see research condensed, similar to other departments with a single central hall, attached labs/work areas, and taking up minimal space so that the ship retains maintenance halls, antag areas, and limits having 'squares' poking off the diagonal ship sides as best as possible.

 

I'm excited to see what you do with research but right now the remap looks like it improves the laboratory areas/aesthetics but uses space for hallways, room sizes, etc. poorly.

[Evandorf]

I know this would be more involved than a simple remap but if people like it then it may be worth discussing how it could be implemented.

What do people think of the xenobio lab being able to be jettisoned as a map entity?  It would be disconnected from power and have no engines but thematically it could makes sense. 

[Dreamix]

The Good:

• Xenobiology additions are nice.
• Xenobotany kinda looks nicer.

The Okay:

• I do not really care about the position of mechanist's workshop. But wasn't it moved to the central ring, so the role could be closer to the people, and hopefully see more engagement? Though putting it near ops could maybe do the same. Dunno. I don't really care either way.

The Bad:

• The overall layout is just... Strange.
• Currently, science lab is connected to the central ring hallway - this is nice for even the simplest things like saying "hello" while walking past. New science, there is literally zero reason for non-science crew to walk up to science, other than to specifically go there. There isn't even a maint tunnel accessible from new science lobby. This is bad.
• If science really needs to have a lobby, then it should be directly connected to the central ring. In this remap, it is connected to the elevator hallway, via a waiting room (?) with 3 chairs and 2 vending machines. That waiting room is just weird and useless, and I cannot imagine anyone using it ever. Its only purpose seems like is to make the way from central ring to science longer.
• Telesci lab is at the front and connected to the new lobby, but it sees basically no use ever, so. Why? It's just space that could be better used by literally anything else.
• This remap somewhat removes/reduces some maintenance tunnels. Like behind xenobio.
• New science has that hallway ring around the conference room. It's really useless and a waste of space, and does not connect anything. The whole U shape under the new conference room could be replaced with maintenance.
• The "airlock" connecting new sci lobby and the rest of science is really strange. It is going to do nothing else, but annoy anyone walking through there. Especially since it is basically a 4-tiles-long 1-tile-wide tight corridor.
• I second Limette's concerns. Science should be easily accessible to non-sci crew, so they can easily get to the lower science deck, be allowed to participate in experiments, and the like.
• Currently it takes something like 22 tiles to get from central hallway to the science elevator. This remap pushes it to something like 51, more than double than currently.
• I do not like the new mechanist workshop protruding from the hull, like the new brig does. I really hate it breaking up the nice and smooth hull of Horizon. It looks really bad aesthetically. Like at that point we might as well abandon the nice smooth angled walls, and make everything blocky.

 

Overall, I do not think this is an improvement over current science. It makes it more isolated, and the layout more complicated for no reason.

[Scheveningen]

Strongly opposed to this layout. This is, for the most part, a downgrade in every way that matters.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Tweaks will be made, for now the PR will be closed until I finish some alterations with everyone's feedback in mind. 

[La Villa Strangiato]

I don't really like this layout and I'd second all of the concerns expressed above. RND is fine as it is, IMHO.