Player Complaint - Sophia Cynthai

[Ublicto]

BYOND Key: Ublicto
Game ID: coZ-aGT1
Staff involved: Melariara, WickedCybs
Reason for complaint: Unreasonable and bad Captain play.

During this round I came up with a gimmick for a merc team. The Horizon would be sent 100 years in the future to 2565 where the new political entity called the "Solarian-Jargon Federation" owns everything and has outlawed synthetic life. I thought this was a very creative and interesting gimmick, but when we arrived the Captain almost immediately began shutting us down. We attracted a crowd and it seemed almost everyone was interested, but when we finally got to talk to the Captain they started being extremely hostile. This is not something it is reasonable to do if you believe you are in space controlled by a potentially hostile foreign power and making first contact with them. They tried to confine us to the conference room and refused any attempt at compromise or negotiation. Then a gunfight broke out. The entire merc team except for one guy who got sent to the brig was destroyed and the round for the antags was cut short early because of one player's obstructionism.

 

Essentially:

-Captain acted unreasonably hostile

-Captain shut down the gimmick early, ending any role play we could have done in the rest of the ship

-Captain refused to compromise on any points we raised and planned to shut us in a room. They never even gave a counter-offer to anything, just unilateral and unreasonable demands even though I tried to compromise as the "leader" of the mercs several times

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation?: Yes, I was directed to make a player complaint.
Approximate Date/Time: 7/25/23 at around 1 AM EST.

[LordPwner]

Heyo, LordPwner/Birdie here. Your resident fuck-up and horrible person/RPer™®©

I was in this round as Marcus Zhao, the XO and have been given permission from Mela to respond to this complaint to give a deeper walkthrough.

Joining the Round:

Spoiler

So, I did late join, but I joined just before the gimmick 'kicked off' in full. With the start off of Ublicto, or whoever was playing Arther Anderson using the hailing channel for the 'unknown ship' to identify itself. We did, as the SCCV Horizon. Right after this, we are told- 'Well- the SCCV Doesn't exist anymore- that was seventy years ago.' Marcus takes this as a prank, and tosses some banter about that. This then follows up with them saying 'We are going to board you'. While everyone was preparing for the boarders, Marcus/Sophia were on the holo with the rangers, asked them the year in front of the Captain- who confirmed it to be 2465- asked them to prepare for a fight- just incase. Since these are, for all anyone knows- solarians in coalition space.

Thats when it became from 'funny prank on hailing' to- you're just 'going' to board us. ICly this was that fight moment 'We're about to be board- prepare to send off intruders who said "We are going to board you" '. Then Security was mobilized and @Fluffy as the HoS to go and negotiate with them. During this and up to the point they demanded to speak w/ the Captain. The crew, including the XO were tossing insults, and banter and getting it back in turn. 

I made even a point of emoting when they talked about the Empire being destroyed and Moroz being bombed later in the gimmick (When first speaking to the Captain).

The Security conference at the docking arm

Spoiler

Fluffy speaks with them for... I want to say a whole of rest of the first hour? so 20-30 minutes? Every chills out and comes outside the bridge. Which we were held up in this whole time. They demanded to speak with Sophia, so Sophia and Marcus went out to meet them. 

The Captain (Of the Mercs) introduced himself and reached out to shake hands. I believe Sophia did the same. They then began talking- and it was rather amicable. Just a 'hey- whats going on? Why are you on my ship? Whats the matter' etc. etc. The aggression starts to kick up when they once again go 'All your homes are destroyed' to answers as to why it's the future- and why we should believe them. The Empire, the Republic- basically every governing body and key planet bombed or captured. This turns up the ire a bit, and everyone is a tad hostile- but we move into the conference room at their suggestion.

Marcus actively blocks the rest of the team because get fecked mercs He doesn't like the fact that they're marines with Ion's and regular long guns in gargoyle suits- and he wasn't 100% sold on the 'oh, it's the future' yet. Anything that could have really been used to 'prove it' was 'that was destroyed or conquered by X, or is actually this now'. It is the one struggle of timetravel gimmicks.

The conference room 'fun party time'

Spoiler

When we get into the conference room, things are a little heated, true, as Sophia starts to put on the heat a little. Starting to grill them more on what they wanted- who they were, why the should listen- etc. With an ending up idea that 'Ya know what- you could be right. THIS COULD BE the future. So we'll turn and head for Buriza- and you can follow us- or stay aboard... And we'll get it sorted in port.'

Which is in direct violation of this 

24 minutes ago, Ublicto said:

-Captain shut down the gimmick early, ending any role play we could have done in the rest of the ship

-Captain refused to compromise on any points we raised and planned to shut us in a room. They never even gave a counter-offer to anything, just unilateral and unreasonable demands even though I tried to compromise as the "leader" of the mercs several times

The INSTANT response was 'Oh no, Buriza is a military port- you'll get shot down.' Which lead to something more along the lines of 'so just listen to us, and we'll search your ship.'

This is when the PICKLE happened. Pickle, the IPC chef came into the conference room- I have zero idea how or why @kyres1maybe can explain  But they INSTANTLY saw them as a synth (The Rep of the round, synth as wel- asked their view on synths- which the Solarians responded with 'yeah- strictly illegal- those die'. 

The marines all flick around- steadying ion rifles at Pickle and stepping towards her going 'It's a synth! SYNTH!' Which the helmsman of the round body blocked like a champ till Pickle escaped. Security was a bit more up-in arms now. As they CHASED a crewmember with weapons lethal to them. They do calm down- both mercs and security, before the mercs demand that all synth crew be brigged- both Captain and HoS deny this request because they are in important positions, etc. 

This is when the captain of the Horizon, Sophia, orders them to put their weapons down (the mercs)- Then...someone aims at the Captain. I have zero idea if security shot first, or the antags- but like the shot heard around the world- someone did. I have a /feeling/ that it was the antags due to their aim 'disallows' of radio use or something. That's normally what happens. Then the fire fight kicks off- Captain, Helmsman- officers with laser weapons are firing through the window. Officer Kuri and Levsaai are inside unloading ont heir flank. The Marines flip the table for cover and engage. 

The mercs then say 'cease fire' and for a moment- none of security is firing- Until we glance in, and some of the antags are still exchanging shots- It's unclear if ISD was still fighting them- or if they were putting someone down. The HoS orders a cease fire. Three of the antags are still firing/being shot at now. Officers enter and see the situation and start to fire. XO and Helm provide support cover from the window. All the mercs are down- only 1- maybe two dead? 

Ublicto while being in the front was the second or third down. Security moves in to secure prisoners, medical is on site, rushing officers to the medical department. That is when Ublicto stands up and throws a primed frag nade- destroying the wall and coating officers and medical in a spread of bullets. Security shoots him a few more times. S/He/They drop again.. They stand up AGAIN and throw another nade. It's clear they're going to keep fighting- so Officers keep shooting till S/He/They fully stop fighting- in this case, meaning they're dead. 

This is when Command sat down and began to discuss what had happened, to get our story straight. We were going to announce more than just the outcome and lower to green- but RP and the explosion of the Adhomaian ghost role ship caught up to us.

If there is anything that needs clarifying, or more information- Please reach out to myself or any of the officers/Command who were present (as needed of course). Spoilered long post for ease of reading

[Ublicto]

I immediately attempted to compromise. The HoS suggested Vysoka as a nearby planet, and I agreed to that. I also ceded ground on the synth issue and demanded they only be confined to the brig. The merc who aimed first was me and I deliberately had all the automatic shooting settings off. It was a different merc who may have shot first, and I immediately told them to cease fire. That didn't work out, but this situation would never have happened if the Captain wasn't so unreasonably hostile. We could have worked something out, but the captain abruptly declared that were confined to that room and I drew my rifle to aim it at them because the alternative was being prisoners. You omitted my numerous attempts at negotiation and the Captain's mounting hostility which I never could tell the reason for, especially because I was sincerely trying to negotiate and backed down on basically every big demand because they were being so hostile about it. We did not even chase the synth out of the room - I told the merc who wanted to do that to stand down. We never left the room for all of this stand off and fight.

I attempted de-escalation at every point. I was yelling "Cease fire!" until I was laying on the ground going in and out of paralysis which is when i said "kill them all" and started throwing grenades. I have a very hard time believing that you were planning on lowering to green because the Captain continued to get more and more hostile for no discernible reason even as I offered compromise after compromise. I even said that the Skrell could help the Horizon go back to its time and the Captain basically just ignored that, which seems incredibly strange considering they should want to not be marooned in the future. To me it looked like the Captain was trying to provoke a fight and end our gimmick early. What is the explanation for demanding us remain in a room rather than go back to our ship? What is the explanation for stonewalling me at every turn in the talks? What is the explanation for abruptly cutting off all communication and declaring we were prisoners suddenly? It feels totally arbitrary.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Ublicto

[Fluffy]

I was playing in this round as a Commander, so I believe I can offer my perspective, if not, feel free to delete this post.

As soon as the mercs came aboard to "inspect" us, I have received an order to treat the intruders as boarders, despite noone having seen them yet and thus ICly unknown if they were armed or not, though it's permissible to presume as such in my opinion, and ordered to arm up to deal with them.

I have armed up the officers and made my way near the bridge to talk with the mercs, at which I got a message on the command channel on the lines of "Treat them like boarders" (I don't remember the exact words, but the sense was that), and it was around 00.35.

I have then attempted to clarify that they didn't seem hostile and that it would have been a very dumb idea to start a war in hostile territory with no backup, the corporate representative was agreeing with me, and I think @LordPwner (which was the XO) too.

The Captain wants to burn for a nearby ports, and says to tell them to go away, and we will head to the nearest port.

In around the same time, we also receive a ghost role (gunboat) holocall, which the Captain uses to "confirm" the year, I make up some bullshit to indicate that it's not confirmed (along the line of "their clock would not be updated like ours").

I don't remember exactly the proceeding after that, but we sent away the Journalist and some other non-security non-medical members (which I would have preferred not to, because they would have been able to see a bit of the gimmick, but since it didn't made sense to say no to the request ICly, I had to go along with it), and got soon after another message on the sense of "what do they want?" (suggesting that they were being considered hostile boarders even before knowing what they were here to do), to which I have relayed the intentions of them back to the Captain (which was something on the line of inspecting the vessel, IIRC), got an answer that I think was on the line of "no" (I am very unsure about this one, given I was talking with the mercs, security, the passengers, and command at the same time), to which they demanded to talk with the Captain.

I have relayed to the Captain the request, to which I got back that they didn't speak Basic, the XO offered to translate and I have relayed the information that they do indeed speak basic (suggesting that there was no attempted form of communication whatsoever, besides the hailing, I think).

The Captain comes out, the XO alongside, they talk with the mercs for a little, then move to the meeting room, the mercs go in, the Captain goes in, an Officer goes in on the side of the Captain, I stage the rest of the Officers outside the meeting room.

Some talking back and forth, in which I step in two or three times to suggest some agreeable solution (like the use of a different port) because it was IMHO derailing towards a bloodbath, and it seems it's more or less stable, we're around 1.20 into the round I think?

Then, an IPC walks in, in which they point weapons to him, but ultimately let him go, stow the weapons back, and indicate that IPCs are an illegal technology. I do not remember them saying they have to die, but I remember them saying they would have to requisition them; The Captain says something on the lines of "Not gonna happen", and I interject once again, indicating that they are essential for the operations of the ship, but they will not be allowed to leave it, as a more agreeable solution, the merc asks something on the line of "do they cover essential positions?", I reply with yes and some back and forth, the mercs say they would allow it but they would have to be secluded to the Brig.

 

At around this time, the Captain says something (in reply to something else I don't recall) on the line of "You're not gonna leave here", and something else that I don't recall apart from it feeling very hostile, at which point weapons are drawn, I order on comms to be ready to scramble, then someone (I think it was a merc) shoot, at which point there's some shots exchange, I open the meeting room door and order on the comms to scramble in, but it doesn't seem anyone of those outside the meeting room has clicked yet that we're already shooting, so I run in with the shotgun that I had left, get shot once or twice (which fucks my arm), run back out and open the door again.

One of the mercs screams to cease fire, which I order too on the comms, but it doesn't seem to reach everyone, so I repeat it screaming too. I see a BC and the XO on the lower door still shooting with a carabine for some other shots, then one of the mercs go down and screams "Kill them all!", to which I order to neutralize the hostiles, open the door again, and run back in.

I aim one of the mercs with a recovered shotgun (that turns out to be empty and not mine, or mine but expended), he stands back up and shoot at us, I try to shoot but it's empty, I order again to move in and secure them, in the meantime one of the mercs stands up and use some grenades before being contained/killed, the remaining hostiles are handcuffed, medical rush in, every one of them but one dies, I get hauled to Medbay where I find the Captain, and the rest is pretty much irrelevant for the complain I believe.

 

My opinion is probably not worth much, also considering I'm a trialee, but I do believe the initial requested escalations were unreasonable; though, I believe permissible - if premature and sudden - the one in the meeting room.

[WickedCybs]

I'm not the one handling this complaint because I was involved as a player and staff member. I've still been asked to provide my point of view though. It's limited.

From the staff-side, I took in concerns from the mercenaries that Command may have been getting third-parties involved to try and deconfirm the gimmick. I'm not sure if the Horizon was seeking them out or not, but I let the Ranger know that round they absolutely can't get involved without permission and that they should play along with the gimmick with permission (which they received from the mercs), so they shifted to also believing they were potentially struck by a temporal anomaly. I think nothing came of that unfortunately though. It was a pretty busy round and I was alone at the time, so that's the most significant thing I remember. When things started getting a bit overwhelming at the end, Mel took over for me.

From the player-side. I joined in as the RD and after being filled in and reading the announcements on newscaster, informed the rest of Command I'd like to send out the Intrepid to investigate the nearby area to see if we could confirm the situation by doing scans and dating the nearby asteroid as they were ready to go. The Captain gave permission for that given the situation. The Intrepid had to return once soon after that conversation because the consular ended up hiding in it, then it set out a second time a while after but by then the firefight already happened. I had no discussions with the mercs themselves, only the rest of Command and my own department. I can say at least that in terms of how everyone was reacting, it appeared that the Head of Security fully bought into the gimmick and was trying to give them leeway. The XO was open to the possibility the mercenaries were telling the truth. I was not really in a position to speak at length with the Captain so I only really know about the initial approach where the mercenaries were treated as potential hostiles. I cannot comment on the right or wrong for it.

At the end I was told that by their account (XO, HoS and some onlookers) that they tried to follow through with the ceasefire, but an Officer kept firing at the mercenaries (potentially because they didn't catch the HoS saying to ceasefire as well) which led to a retaliation. The crew was very split on this as some of them watched it happen.

Edited July 26, 2023 by WickedCybs
a full stop

[kyres1]

4 hours ago, LordPwner said:

This is when the PICKLE happened. Pickle, the IPC chef came into the conference room- I have zero idea how or why

I latejoined so my character didn't have any context as to what the antagonists were. So, my character, upon learning they were magical time travelers, lied and said she had drinks to deliver to the conference room to take a look. They ended up being a bunch of fully armed Solarians, hence her walking out immediately. My involvement basically begins and ends there. After that I sat around doing other things and eventually left the round just before it ended.

[ATGiltspire]

Hi, puppeteer of Hayashi Kuri here. I was the officer awkwardly standing next to the captain during the unpleasantness. Let me explain how things looked from my point of view for a couple of them. Remember that this is 100% biased from my point of view

 

For a lot of the direct stonewalling, you effectively just came on and say "we are taking your ship", which looked a bit suspicious. One of the problems with Future Gimmicks is that the gear you were wearing was literally just current day stuff, since there aren't really any future suits. When you mentioned Synthetic Life being "outlawed", that's where some of the miscommunication happened with people saying you wanted to wipe them all out. At least from my experience, a bunch of heavily armed people saying "this existence is illegal" means a murder is about to happen.

 

When Pickle came in and I shoved them out of the door, I was 100% convinced your person was going to triple tap me and chase after them with the specific IPC-killing weapon in hand. At that point, I wouldn't have wanted you to leave either, since your team had previously expressed their wish to kill crew.

 

As for the shooting, a few notes. At least on my end, the first shot was an Ion blast to Kuri's chest, which I think wrecked my lungs, since they are prosthetics. I did continue firing after you all called for ceasefire, because I had stopped earlier and gotten shot twice for it. If the commander said anything, I didn't see it past the wall of Redtext. 

 

Overall, at the end of the round, I think both sides had a bit of an issue. While the captain was a lot more dismissive of the marines and antagonized them, they also had demonstrated a destructive attitude towards crew. Personally, I wish the Captain had explained why she was refusing to let them leave first, but she was not given a chance to after. Add onto that the violent comments from the marines, and it did feel like they would try to frag the IPCs regardless of what we did, and that brigging them would only be putting them in a single spot for the marines to wipe them out.

 

As I said, this is a 100% biased opinion from the resident Forever Box character, so it does have biases based on only having a small amount of the information.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Hello, I will be handling this alongside @Loorey. Give me some time to gather logs, and review all of it with the assisting moderator. 

I will need @Lent23 to weigh in as well. Thanks!

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Also, @LordPwner Why did you fax central command asking for the confirmation of the date after there was an announcement made that confirmed the date/setup the mercenaries gimmick?

[LordPwner]

1 hour ago, ReadThisNamePlz said:

Also, @LordPwner Why did you fax central command asking for the confirmation of the date after there was an announcement made that confirmed the date/setup the mercenaries gimmick?

The Captain asked me to send the fax, during the start of the conference room discussion (So I did miss a minute or so of it). I did LOOC let the tags know that we were doing that so they could AOOC/Ahelp ask for central to go respond w/

'SCC? Odin? Nah Chief, this is insert new name, it's 2565, Are you trying to punk us right now?'

Or if they wanted the fight, say

'It's 2465- are you fit for command?'

OOCly it was also to try to give antags another tool, which it almost always is, to help solidify their gimmick

As in terms of the announcement, didn't actually read it (I joined after it, no idea how long). Stuffed it into my folder because I had glanced at the paper's title and thought it to be an automatic announce like 'Warden Authority', they mentioned it in LOOC while talking in the hallway, that they announced. So, I double checked my folder and handed the paper to the cappy

[Lent23]

Alright, so here we go:

At the beginning of the round, the bridge crewman and I were sitting and chatting when we got a communication that the Horizon was suddenly shifted 100 years into the future. The immediate result was a mixture of radio panic at everyone losing their loved ones and being forced into the future and complete skepticism. About fifteen seconds later, we were set upon by a cruiser coming to dock with the ship. The captain's first instinct in this situation must be to protect her crew and preserve the peace. It was around this time that Marcus Zhao showed up on shift, and the captain called both Marcus and the commander to the bridge to discuss the situation at hand.

It was right about the time that they arrived on the bridge that we started to get hails from the boarding ship, entirely in sol common. Sophia does not speak Sol common, so Marcus and the commander were translating for her. What was told to her was that the people on the inbound ship were "Going to board." with emphasis placed on the going, as if there was no choice in the matter. At this point, it's the captain's primary concern is to meet with them on at the very least an equal field. When people tell you that they are going to board you, you can assume with relative certainty that they are armed enough to back up their claim. Captain Cynthai orders the commander to "Arm up your forces." This is because it's much easier to debate with someone when you're on an even level - much harder when one side has weapons to point at you.

At this point, the bridge has witnessed the boarders on the camera. Just as she expected, they are touting what appears to be solarian hardsuits as well as multiple long-arms (with what appears to be some of them carrying two long arms). A captain of a ship that has had two solarian incursions in the past is not going to take well to heavily armed solarian boarders. Adding onto the fact that everyone she knows off-ship may be completely gone at this point, she is extremely stressed out and believed the situation was best left to the commander to deal with - their de-escalation skills are going to be much better than hers at the moment.

It was about this time that rangers contacted the ship to see if we needed any assistance with anything. The bridge asked them if they detected any temporal disturbances, to which they told us they had not, and that we were still as of their knowledge in the year 2465. Relaying this information, I believe the commander supplied the alternative that perhaps their sensors weren't able to identify any shift, as their ship would be far less advanced than theirs. The captain was willing to accept this explanation, and the Rangers were sent on their way.

After the rangers left, the solarians requested a meeting with the captain herself. While still upset, she knew that she had to do this for the crew, so she agreed to come outside and meet them. Marcus came with her to translate, as she expressed concern that they were only speaking in sol common. Upon meeting with them, they demanded that we speak somewhere "more private." We moved to the conference room, and started discussing what they wanted.

Their demands were that we start moving the ship to skrell federation space. Captain Cynthai's response to this was that we would move to the closest port. At this point, the lead marine told her that the closest port was Burzsia, a completely-military planet that would "Fire this ship out of the sky on approach." Cynthai considered it her due diligence to get a reading from the nearest port - If the current system had been warped into the future, as the presence of the rangers would imply, then the closest port being 3 days away would likely be in the future timeline, so she could get an actual answer. She spent this time in the conference room with the boarders trying to get them to lower their weapons, as half of their team had weapons in-hand, almost as if readying their trigger fingers. The idea was to get the boarders to lower their guard and create an easier time to get to the port. Drinks were on the proverbial table, and they would be able to chat while they moved to the port. The boarders declined this concession.

Pickle is let in by the bridge crew. Weapons are aimed, and sol common is shouted. Tensions are high at this moment, and Pickle rushes out. Now, the boarder is no longer speaking to the Captain, he is speaking to the commander through the glass. His demand is that all synths are locked away in the brig, and their life is put into question. "Do synths play a vital role in the operation of this ship?" Yes. They do. We are not going to lock up our crewmembers. The boarders get angry, and weapons are raised. "You're not leaving this room right now."

Shooting commences, started by the boarders.

Captain runs out after taking a couple bullets, security runs in. I didn't get to witness much, but I did see the boarder leader calling for a ceasefire. Shooting was still commencing at that point, from what appeared to be both sides, though most seemed to have stopped as the commander also called for a ceasefire. Due to a couple members still shooting, it evolved into an all-out explosive fight, with security taking the eventual victory with one lost officer.

 

At this point, I had to deal with explaining the entire round to Melariara, so I was mostly checked out of IC affairs and ghosted shortly after being informed that this would likely result in a player complaint, all my desire to play the round promptly sapped.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Lent23
Posted before I meant to, adding more info.

[Lent23]

Now let's talk about the OOC perspective:

14 hours ago, Ublicto said:

The Horizon would be sent 100 years in the future to 2565 where the new political entity called the "Solarian-Jargon Federation" owns everything and has outlawed synthetic life.

A goofy gimmick, sure, but let's hear it out. Do most people think that Solarians and the Skrell would combine into a super-government and own the entire spur? Probably not, but let's work to verify it.

14 hours ago, Ublicto said:

when we arrived the Captain almost immediately began shutting us down.

The captain's job is to protect the crew, the ship and company assets from any potential threat. It is her job to ensure that this opposing force is dealt with, first through efforts of de-escalation, then by force if necessary.

14 hours ago, Ublicto said:

They tried to confine us to the conference room and refused any attempt at compromise or negotiation.

Our attempts to confine the boarders were exclusively after tensions and weapons were raised, and a direct threat to the life of the crew happened.

14 hours ago, Ublicto said:

Then a gunfight broke out.

It's worth noting that the gunfight was started by the boarders shooting at the captain, not by security.

14 hours ago, Ublicto said:

The entire merc team except for one guy who got sent to the brig was destroyed and the round for the antags was cut short early

This situation lasted more than half the round, from the entrance of the mercenaries to the gunfight they started. I wouldn't say it was cut short early by any means.

14 hours ago, Ublicto said:

-Captain acted unreasonably hostile

You demanded access to the ship, and then came aboard with a heavily armed and armoured team of solarian marines. I don't know if the Captain was the one being hostile.

14 hours ago, Ublicto said:

-Captain refused to compromise on any points we raised and planned to shut us in a room. They never even gave a counter-offer to anything, just unilateral and unreasonable demands even though I tried to compromise as the "leader" of the mercs several times

Our compromise was to go to the nearest port, to which you said No. You did not let up on your side of the deal, saying only that "The ship will turn around and go to Jargon space" and that "All synths will be locked up.

13 hours ago, Ublicto said:

I also ceded ground on the synth issue and demanded they only be confined to the brig.

"We're only going to lock up your crew [in one place to make them easier to kill] rather than hunt them down one by one" isn't exactly ceded ground.

13 hours ago, Ublicto said:

I have a very hard time believing that you were planning on lowering to green

The plan from the beginning was to move to a nearby port, disarm the mercenaries and get confirmation from outside of the sector.

13 hours ago, Ublicto said:

What is the explanation for demanding us remain in a room rather than go back to our ship?

As stated above. I wanted to integrate more roleplay into your round rather than just ending it.

13 hours ago, Ublicto said:

What is the explanation for abruptly cutting off all communication and declaring we were prisoners suddenly?

I said you couldn't leave the room to hunt down synths, then you started blasting. I was still open to conversation.

9 hours ago, WickedCybs said:

I took in concerns from the mercenaries that Command may have been getting third-parties involved to try and deconfirm the gimmick

They called us, we asked out of convenience, then accepted the fact that, for the gimmick's sake, the whole system was brought in.

7 hours ago, ATGiltspire said:

Personally, I wish the Captain had explained why she was refusing to let them leave first, but she was not given a chance to after.

This is also my main problem with the escalation. I was open to conversation after this point, but was not given the chance.

4 hours ago, LordPwner said:

The Captain asked me to send the fax, during the start of the conference room discussion (So I did miss a minute or so of it). I did LOOC let the tags know that we were doing that so they could AOOC/Ahelp ask for central to go respond w/

I was hoping for some sort of admin intervention on this part, as it would clear up where we wanted to go with the gimmick from our side. I would have absolutely conceded to either response.

 

I'll also say: due to the commander being the person that spoke to them the most, @Fluffy's perspective on this situation is fairly important and mostly accurate from what I can see, especially from the IC perspective.

In addition to this, the main OOC reason I felt the hostility would be welcome was because a divided command makes for a more compelling story. With the Head of Security and the Representative pushing for hard compliance with the solarians and Marcus and Sophia pushing against it, it added another layer of contention that would be much more interesting than all of command rolling over and letting the group of mercenaries do whatever they want with the ship. The alternatives given to me in the conference room were: "End your synth players' rounds by killing them" or "end your synth players' rounds by jailing them until the end of the round." Neither of these are good solutions for everyone. 

10 hours ago, Fluffy said:

we sent away the Journalist and some other non-security non-medical members (which I would have preferred not to, because they would have been able to see a bit of the gimmick

At this point, my IC concern was a firefight breaking out in the halls and innocent people getting hurt because of it. The OOC idea was to get them to at least partially disarm and then let them loose on crew to talk about the situation in the bar or around the ship, and allow people to ask questions about situation - what happened to their families, what happened during the war, etc. Unfortunately, after I ghosted, I was there witnessing Ublicto talking about how peace gimmicks never work, and how "bar rp is boring" and that "antags should use all of their equipment if they can" To which I assume they meant weapons and armor. These thoughts weren't in my head during the round itself, but I realized afterwards that no matter what, peace was not an option from the mercenaries' perspective, which makes this feel like a somewhat frivolous player complaint, if I'm honest.

[Ublicto]

6 hours ago, Lent23 said:

Alright, so here we go:

At the beginning of the round, the bridge crewman and I were sitting and chatting when we got a communication that the Horizon was suddenly shifted 100 years into the future. The immediate result was a mixture of radio panic at everyone losing their loved ones and being forced into the future and complete skepticism. About fifteen seconds later, we were set upon by a cruiser coming to dock with the ship. The captain's first instinct in this situation must be to protect her crew and preserve the peace. It was around this time that Marcus Zhao showed up on shift, and the captain called both Marcus and the commander to the bridge to discuss the situation at hand.

It was right about the time that they arrived on the bridge that we started to get hails from the boarding ship, entirely in sol common. Sophia does not speak Sol common, so Marcus and the commander were translating for her. What was told to her was that the people on the inbound ship were "Going to board." with emphasis placed on the going, as if there was no choice in the matter. At this point, it's the captain's primary concern is to meet with them on at the very least an equal field. When people tell you that they are going to board you, you can assume with relative certainty that they are armed enough to back up their claim. Captain Cynthai orders the commander to "Arm up your forces." This is because it's much easier to debate with someone when you're on an even level - much harder when one side has weapons to point at you.

At this point, the bridge has witnessed the boarders on the camera. Just as she expected, they are touting what appears to be solarian hardsuits as well as multiple long-arms (with what appears to be some of them carrying two long arms). A captain of a ship that has had two solarian incursions in the past is not going to take well to heavily armed solarian boarders. Adding onto the fact that everyone she knows off-ship may be completely gone at this point, she is extremely stressed out and believed the situation was best left to the commander to deal with - their de-escalation skills are going to be much better than hers at the moment.

It was about this time that rangers contacted the ship to see if we needed any assistance with anything. The bridge asked them if they detected any temporal disturbances, to which they told us they had not, and that we were still as of their knowledge in the year 2465. Relaying this information, I believe the commander supplied the alternative that perhaps their sensors weren't able to identify any shift, as their ship would be far less advanced than theirs. The captain was willing to accept this explanation, and the Rangers were sent on their way.

After the rangers left, the solarians requested a meeting with the captain herself. While still upset, she knew that she had to do this for the crew, so she agreed to come outside and meet them. Marcus came with her to translate, as she expressed concern that they were only speaking in sol common. Upon meeting with them, they demanded that we speak somewhere "more private." We moved to the conference room, and started discussing what they wanted.

Their demands were that we start moving the ship to skrell federation space. Captain Cynthai's response to this was that we would move to the closest port. At this point, the lead marine told her that the closest port was Burzsia, a completely-military planet that would "Fire this ship out of the sky on approach." Cynthai considered it her due diligence to get a reading from the nearest port - If the current system had been warped into the future, as the presence of the rangers would imply, then the closest port being 3 days away would likely be in the future timeline, so she could get an actual answer. She spent this time in the conference room with the boarders trying to get them to lower their weapons, as half of their team had weapons in-hand, almost as if readying their trigger fingers. The idea was to get the boarders to lower their guard and create an easier time to get to the port. Drinks were on the proverbial table, and they would be able to chat while they moved to the port. The boarders declined this concession.

Pickle is let in by the bridge crew. Weapons are aimed, and sol common is shouted. Tensions are high at this moment, and Pickle rushes out. Now, the boarder is no longer speaking to the Captain, he is speaking to the commander through the glass. His demand is that all synths are locked away in the brig, and their life is put into question. "Do synths play a vital role in the operation of this ship?" Yes. They do. We are not going to lock up our crewmembers. The boarders get angry, and weapons are raised. "You're not leaving this room right now."

Shooting commences, started by the boarders.

Captain runs out after taking a couple bullets, security runs in. I didn't get to witness much, but I did see the boarder leader calling for a ceasefire. Shooting was still commencing at that point, from what appeared to be both sides, though most seemed to have stopped as the commander also called for a ceasefire. Due to a couple members still shooting, it evolved into an all-out explosive fight, with security taking the eventual victory with one lost officer.

 

At this point, I had to deal with explaining the entire round to Melariara, so I was mostly checked out of IC affairs and ghosted shortly after being informed that this would likely result in a player complaint, all my desire to play the round promptly sapped.

You did not mention how I tried to reach a middle ground on every single issue that you raised. You said you wanted to go to Burzia, the HoS suggested Vysoka instead and I agreed with him. I said I wanted to get rid of the synthetics, you said that wasn't possible so I suggested you brig them. You never explained your objections to this, even when no merc had a weapon out and several even put their weapons on the table. I had to ask them to pick their weapons back up at one point.

You did not mention you were putting us in the conference room for any specific reason, you were being extremely rude and stated abruptly that we would be confined there. This was both unrealistic and incredibly annoying. Whatever justifications you give for your actions were not apparent to me or the other mercs. When I aimed my gun at you I meant to take you hostage because I had no other option at that point. There was no reason why with your prior actions and attitude towards the mercs I would not have thought you weren't going to have security storm the room the moment you were out of the firing line. You gave zero reasons for anything you did and from my perspective acted to obstruct the gimmick in an unfair and unfun way. I do not blame you for the "CEASE FIRE!!" shouting not working because that was the fault of security officers who kept firing and causing responses from the mercs.

 

6 hours ago, Lent23 said:

Now let's talk about the OOC perspective:

A goofy gimmick, sure, but let's hear it out. Do most people think that Solarians and the Skrell would combine into a super-government and own the entire spur? Probably not, but let's work to verify it.

The captain's job is to protect the crew, the ship and company assets from any potential threat. It is her job to ensure that this opposing force is dealt with, first through efforts of de-escalation, then by force if necessary.

Our attempts to confine the boarders were exclusively after tensions and weapons were raised, and a direct threat to the life of the crew happened.

It's worth noting that the gunfight was started by the boarders shooting at the captain, not by security.

This situation lasted more than half the round, from the entrance of the mercenaries to the gunfight they started. I wouldn't say it was cut short early by any means.

You demanded access to the ship, and then came aboard with a heavily armed and armoured team of solarian marines. I don't know if the Captain was the one being hostile.

Our compromise was to go to the nearest port, to which you said No. You did not let up on your side of the deal, saying only that "The ship will turn around and go to Jargon space" and that "All synths will be locked up.

"We're only going to lock up your crew [in one place to make them easier to kill] rather than hunt them down one by one" isn't exactly ceded ground.

The plan from the beginning was to move to a nearby port, disarm the mercenaries and get confirmation from outside of the sector.

As stated above. I wanted to integrate more roleplay into your round rather than just ending it.

I said you couldn't leave the room to hunt down synths, then you started blasting. I was still open to conversation.

They called us, we asked out of convenience, then accepted the fact that, for the gimmick's sake, the whole system was brought in.

This is also my main problem with the escalation. I was open to conversation after this point, but was not given the chance.

I was hoping for some sort of admin intervention on this part, as it would clear up where we wanted to go with the gimmick from our side. I would have absolutely conceded to either response.

 

I'll also say: due to the commander being the person that spoke to them the most, @Fluffy's perspective on this situation is fairly important and mostly accurate from what I can see, especially from the IC perspective.

In addition to this, the main OOC reason I felt the hostility would be welcome was because a divided command makes for a more compelling story. With the Head of Security and the Representative pushing for hard compliance with the solarians and Marcus and Sophia pushing against it, it added another layer of contention that would be much more interesting than all of command rolling over and letting the group of mercenaries do whatever they want with the ship. The alternatives given to me in the conference room were: "End your synth players' rounds by killing them" or "end your synth players' rounds by jailing them until the end of the round." Neither of these are good solutions for everyone. 

At this point, my IC concern was a firefight breaking out in the halls and innocent people getting hurt because of it. The OOC idea was to get them to at least partially disarm and then let them loose on crew to talk about the situation in the bar or around the ship, and allow people to ask questions about situation - what happened to their families, what happened during the war, etc. Unfortunately, after I ghosted, I was there witnessing Ublicto talking about how peace gimmicks never work, and how "bar rp is boring" and that "antags should use all of their equipment if they can" To which I assume they meant weapons and armor. These thoughts weren't in my head during the round itself, but I realized afterwards that no matter what, peace was not an option from the mercenaries' perspective, which makes this feel like a somewhat frivolous player complaint, if I'm honest.

Every allegation you make against me is categorically wrong. You never even attempted to talk about my conditions or negotiate them down - I negotiated them down for you! The HoS was the only one who I could actually talk to. I also suggested the synths be sent to the brig and not destroyed - you know very well that the brig would have been overseen by Horizon's security officers and not the four mercs. Us shooting the synths there makes no sense at all because then we'd have to fight our way out. If we wanted to destroy the synths so badly wouldn't we simply call back up to blow up the Horizon entirely? Your reasoning makes no sense to me. The "gimmick" you ran of constantly insulting us and stonewalling our gimmick was very bad and whatever your OOC intentions were they did not translate into anything I or the other mercs could see. Your discussion of what I said when I was filled with salt in dead chat is irrelevant and also out of context because I was discussing alternative gimmicks with a number of the people who were also there. It's simply not important to this complaint so i will not go into it.

[Ublicto]

16 hours ago, Fluffy said:

I was playing in this round as a Commander, so I believe I can offer my perspective, if not, feel free to delete this post.

As soon as the mercs came aboard to "inspect" us, I have received an order to treat the intruders as boarders, despite noone having seen them yet and thus ICly unknown if they were armed or not, though it's permissible to presume as such in my opinion, and ordered to arm up to deal with them.

I have armed up the officers and made my way near the bridge to talk with the mercs, at which I got a message on the command channel on the lines of "Treat them like boarders" (I don't remember the exact words, but the sense was that), and it was around 00.35.

I have then attempted to clarify that they didn't seem hostile and that it would have been a very dumb idea to start a war in hostile territory with no backup, the corporate representative was agreeing with me, and I think @LordPwner (which was the XO) too.

The Captain wants to burn for a nearby ports, and says to tell them to go away, and we will head to the nearest port.

In around the same time, we also receive a ghost role (gunboat) holocall, which the Captain uses to "confirm" the year, I make up some bullshit to indicate that it's not confirmed (along the line of "their clock would not be updated like ours").

I don't remember exactly the proceeding after that, but we sent away the Journalist and some other non-security non-medical members (which I would have preferred not to, because they would have been able to see a bit of the gimmick, but since it didn't made sense to say no to the request ICly, I had to go along with it), and got soon after another message on the sense of "what do they want?" (suggesting that they were being considered hostile boarders even before knowing what they were here to do), to which I have relayed the intentions of them back to the Captain (which was something on the line of inspecting the vessel, IIRC), got an answer that I think was on the line of "no" (I am very unsure about this one, given I was talking with the mercs, security, the passengers, and command at the same time), to which they demanded to talk with the Captain.

I have relayed to the Captain the request, to which I got back that they didn't speak Basic, the XO offered to translate and I have relayed the information that they do indeed speak basic (suggesting that there was no attempted form of communication whatsoever, besides the hailing, I think).

The Captain comes out, the XO alongside, they talk with the mercs for a little, then move to the meeting room, the mercs go in, the Captain goes in, an Officer goes in on the side of the Captain, I stage the rest of the Officers outside the meeting room.

Some talking back and forth, in which I step in two or three times to suggest some agreeable solution (like the use of a different port) because it was IMHO derailing towards a bloodbath, and it seems it's more or less stable, we're around 1.20 into the round I think?

Then, an IPC walks in, in which they point weapons to him, but ultimately let him go, stow the weapons back, and indicate that IPCs are an illegal technology. I do not remember them saying they have to die, but I remember them saying they would have to requisition them; The Captain says something on the lines of "Not gonna happen", and I interject once again, indicating that they are essential for the operations of the ship, but they will not be allowed to leave it, as a more agreeable solution, the merc asks something on the line of "do they cover essential positions?", I reply with yes and some back and forth, the mercs say they would allow it but they would have to be secluded to the Brig.

 

At around this time, the Captain says something (in reply to something else I don't recall) on the line of "You're not gonna leave here", and something else that I don't recall apart from it feeling very hostile, at which point weapons are drawn, I order on comms to be ready to scramble, then someone (I think it was a merc) shoot, at which point there's some shots exchange, I open the meeting room door and order on the comms to scramble in, but it doesn't seem anyone of those outside the meeting room has clicked yet that we're already shooting, so I run in with the shotgun that I had left, get shot once or twice (which fucks my arm), run back out and open the door again.

One of the mercs screams to cease fire, which I order too on the comms, but it doesn't seem to reach everyone, so I repeat it screaming too. I see a BC and the XO on the lower door still shooting with a carabine for some other shots, then one of the mercs go down and screams "Kill them all!", to which I order to neutralize the hostiles, open the door again, and run back in.

I aim one of the mercs with a recovered shotgun (that turns out to be empty and not mine, or mine but expended), he stands back up and shoot at us, I try to shoot but it's empty, I order again to move in and secure them, in the meantime one of the mercs stands up and use some grenades before being contained/killed, the remaining hostiles are handcuffed, medical rush in, every one of them but one dies, I get hauled to Medbay where I find the Captain, and the rest is pretty much irrelevant for the complain I believe.

 

My opinion is probably not worth much, also considering I'm a trialee, but I do believe the initial requested escalations were unreasonable; though, I believe permissible - if premature and sudden - the one in the meeting room.

This is all very accurate with the exception that I had repeatedly ordered a cease fire and only said "kill them all" when it was clear that would not happen and more security was entering the room. I should also add that the HoS and I almost immediately came up with compromises that made sense IC and would allow us to continue the gimmick and round. I was not able to compromise even once with the Captain. The contrast here is notable.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Alright, sorry for the delay. It has been a busy two days.  @Loorey and I have to come to the following conclusion. While it may not have been intentional, the Captain and XO did indeed railroad the gimmick. The Captain and XO player will be receiving a note about this type of thing. We do not want to see command players sending out faxes to ask for confirmation on gimmicks if there is an announcement about said gimmick beforehand. We also do not want command staff to use third party ships to try and circumvent gimmicks. 

We recognize that this may not have been your intention, but nonetheless it is what happened.