New weapons in the armory

[Skull132]

what you're effectively talking about is an event, Plahunter. And you missed EvilBrage's point. If you want to increase armoury loadout, then you need to deal with the fact that it's there every single round like that. Brage is saying that such a thing would negatively affect an already disheartening situation.

[Theplahunter]

what you're effectively talking about is an event, Plahunter. And you missed EvilBrage's point. If you want to increase armoury loadout, then you need to deal with the fact that it's there every single round like that. Brage is saying that such a thing would negatively affect an already disheartening situation.

 

Can you explain a Bit more? I do not seem to get it well.

[Rusty Shackleford]

There's really no point to this. Tens of thousands of different guns can and probably do exist in-universe, but large organizations with paramilitary/dedicated security personnel are going to have a small set of standard issue weapons, partially because it simplifies training and procurement, and partially because it's highly likely that contracts will be made with manufacturers to supply the organization's firearm needs. There wouldn't be a huge selection of firearms available to the employees, and any self-respecting organization is going to provide gear to their personnel rather than have them buy and use their own.

[Guest]

Personally. I don't care about lore justification, it's detracting with the core issue here. And that's gameplay.

Gameplay in terms of combat balance. In FPSes, there are certain weapons within classes or types of weaponry that are simply objectively better than anything else within its class. Because of this, the meta shifts around the player community almost exclusively using that weapon and that weapon only because it is statistically better than the rest in its class. In itself, this is not too terrible as the FPS game is focused on weapon or class diversity anyway.

However, SS13 really isn't. Especially Aurora. At this time, we have maybe 3 devs in total, 1 of them is maintaining the server and focusing on other job-related things, 1 of them is currently taking state exams and the other had a compooter blowout just recently, delaying their ability to code.

In terms of foresight, this is a huge project for an effort that isn't quite worth the trouble. Perhaps we could add a few new weapons, but we shouldn't try walking the path of adding 14 new weapons for one class that all fulfill the same role/effort. It's a waste of time and uses up quite a bit of space that could be used for other QoL-related projects or even something that would accomplish a lot more than this.

No offense, or anything, but I don't think the development team has time on its hands to do this. It's not worth the effort.

[Theplahunter]

There's really no point to this. Tens of thousands of different guns can and probably do exist in-universe, but large organizations with paramilitary/dedicated security personnel are going to have a small set of standard issue weapons, partially because it simplifies training and procurement, and partially because it's highly likely that contracts will be made with manufacturers to supply the organization's firearm needs. There wouldn't be a huge selection of firearms available to the employees, and any self-respecting organization is going to provide gear to their personnel rather than have them buy and use their own.

 

Well the Romans did have their soldiers buy their own equipment but that's besides the point. We could probably simplify the weapon selection down a little to more specific companies.

 

Personally. I don't care about lore justification, it's detracting with the core issue here. And that's gameplay.

Gameplay in terms of combat balance. In FPSes, there are certain weapons within classes or types of weaponry that are simply objectively better than anything else within its class. Because of this, the meta shifts around the player community almost exclusively using that weapon and that weapon only because it is statistically better than the rest in its class. In itself, this is not too terrible as the FPS game is focused on weapon or class diversity anyway.

However, SS13 really isn't. Especially Aurora. At this time, we have maybe 3 devs in total, 1 of them is maintaining the server and focusing on other job-related things, 1 of them is currently taking state exams and the other had a compooter blowout just recently, delaying their ability to code.

In terms of foresight, this is a huge project for an effort that isn't quite worth the trouble. Perhaps we could add a few new weapons, but we shouldn't try walking the path of adding 14 new weapons for one class that all fulfill the same role/effort. It's a waste of time and uses up quite a bit of space that could be used for other QoL-related projects or even something that would accomplish a lot more than this.

No offense, or anything, but I don't think the development team has time on its hands to do this. It's not worth the effort.

 

Well, maybe we can just hold onto this until we have a bigger dev team, and I could help code and sprite and get some of my friends to work on it with me.

And Kane did have THIS: http://i.gyazo.com/020d95169bf094fbd7fd21aa461fc136.png

[SgtSammac]

Not gonna go into great detail because most points have been covered, but I don't really see the need to add more crap that won't get used barring once in a blue moon.

[Skull132]

Similar arguments that were raised by myself, and that should help explain what Brage is bringing up:

Arming security to the teeth would remove the excitement and crunch of a difficult situation from the game, and diminish greatly the antagonist's abilities. An explanation of the last note: the entire premise of the nuke ops is that they outgun security under normal circumstances. And unless the staff ingame take active measures to counter it, that's how it should be.

 

If you scale up the weapons for both sides, then most confrontations will escalate nearly immediately to the lethal stage, and more of than not, the station will be left a giant battleground. You can already witness this is you see ERT deployed against a nuke team. Arming the security staff to be on par with present ERT, even if we increase the combat capacity of the nuke teams, will simply result in that situation becoming a thing. I don't think that's beneficial.

[Theplahunter]

Similar arguments that were raised by myself, and that should help explain what Brage is bringing up:

Arming security to the teeth would remove the excitement and crunch of a difficult situation from the game, and diminish greatly the antagonist's abilities. An explanation of the last note: the entire premise of the nuke ops is that they outgun security under normal circumstances. And unless the staff ingame take active measures to counter it, that's how it should be.

 

If you scale up the weapons for both sides, then most confrontations will escalate nearly immediately to the lethal stage, and more of than not, the station will be left a giant battleground. You can already witness this is you see ERT deployed against a nuke team. Arming the security staff to be on par with present ERT, even if we increase the combat capacity of the nuke teams, will simply result in that situation becoming a thing. I don't think that's beneficial.

 

I don't really have anything else to say, right now. I a little stumped and if I could discuss it with you on the teamspeak this weekend where I can speak and use my words instead of typing I would appreciate it, i'm just better vocally.

Currently my only arguement about it now is I'd be willing to help sprite and code it and get some friends to help as well, and that I would just appreciate a little bit of weapon diversity because of the RP it could add.

[Skull132]

Development time can be planned and squared.

Lore can be bent over backwards if need be.

The gameplay aspect is the one in question.

[Theplahunter]

Development time can be planned and squared.

Lore can be bent over backwards if need be.

The gameplay aspect is the one in question.

 

Well I'm trying to think about game play, it would add a new "meta" of flanking but I am starting to agree with the variables. Currently all I can think up is: "Operation | How to load it | Firerate | Caliber | Sound | Sprites | Damage | Possibility of damaging/jamming | Use in space. Maybe the Nuke ops Bizon can fire in space while early NT ballistics can't? Or if you set the KTC and a walther 22 next to each other and detonate an explosive the KTC will still be operational while the Walther is completely fucked up, or you fire a .22 and a 5.56 at a target, the .22 stays in the body and causes more internal damage while the 5.56 goes through. But the .22 has no effect against anybody with armor.

But the heavy weapons for security is something I can think up, instead of giving them multiple rifles, carbines, SMG. one M16A6. 3 SMGs. And regular amount of pistols. So Nuke Ops and ERT still has the advantage with hi-powered rifles and you can order rifles and shotguns from cargo (Sorry I am going back to lore a little.) but could be modified with weapons during the test events (done with that.) and handling could somehow be implemented with slower loading times and harder maintenance when your gun breaks/gets damaged.

To Sammac

Well, it may not be used by you (I hope this does not come out as insulting.) but some others might prefer the ballistics over Gauss over Rail over laser thing, it could be used by others or by people who want to get an edge against lighter armored opponents (or non armored)

And uh... Lore/RP... Yes, i'm sorry.

We could add 'Specialties' like you could be better in: Gauss weapons | Ballistic weapons | Lasers | Rail. That could affect your handling with a percentage, like with Ballistic training you could fire a pistol faster and more accurate with quicker loading, but if you use a rail rifle, you aren't adiquitely trained to use it and you get knocked over, and you get to only chose one type of weapon, and then: Pistol | Rifle | Carbine | Shotgun | Long rifle. That could add on as well, so you could be an expert with a Laser Carbine but utter shit with a Gauss Pistol, which would give "specialists" or "unique styles."

[Skull132]

Well I'm trying to think about game play, it would add a new "meta" of flanking but I am starting to agree with the variables [...]

 

...A mechanic which would be completely unaffected by what you're suggesting, regardless of whether or not we wish to implement it.

The "meta" that it would modify is the balance of power. It would give Security more arms, which would lead them to feel more comfortable in situations where they really shouldn't be. A research facility has no need for military grade weaponry. Not even Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works has an armoury filled with military level equipment in it. And that is probably the easiest real life comparison that I can think up.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well I'm trying to think about game play, it would add a new "meta" of flanking but I am starting to agree with the variables. Currently all I can think up is: "Operation | How to load it | Firerate | Caliber | Sound | Sprites | Damage | Possibility of damaging/jamming | Use in space. Maybe the Nuke ops Bizon can fire in space while early NT ballistics can't? Or if you set the KTC and a walther 22 next to each other and detonate an explosive the KTC will still be operational while the Walther is completely fucked up, or you fire a .22 and a 5.56 at a target, the .22 stays in the body and causes more internal damage while the 5.56 goes through. But the .22 has no effect against anybody with armor.

 

Pla... that's not how guns work.

Also, while any bullet can kill you provided it hits a vital area, a .22LR round will not cause more internal damage than a 5.56 NATO round. If the bullet stays in you (without hitting a vital), that's actually a good thing. People who are shot often have the bullets left inside them because it's safer to do that than remove them and potentially cause further damage. Meanwhile, exit wounds will cause heavy bleeding and will potentially be fatal.

 

 

And regarding body armor, there's no such thing as armor that can simply shrug off bullets. If you get shot, it's going to feel like you got punched in the gut (or worse), no matter what kind of ammunition is being used. That's if you're lucky enough to not have the bullet just straight up pierce the armor, even.

[Theplahunter]

Well I'm trying to think about game play, it would add a new "meta" of flanking but I am starting to agree with the variables [...]

 

...A mechanic which would be completely unaffected by what you're suggesting, regardless of whether or not we wish to implement it.

The "meta" that it would modify is the balance of power. It would give Security more arms, which would lead them to feel more comfortable in situations where they really shouldn't be. A research facility has no need for military grade weaponry. Not even Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works has an armoury filled with military level equipment in it. And that is probably the easiest real life comparison that I can think up.

 

Well, how about Police grade instead of military grade? (unless that's the same thing to you. But i'm american, police grade is only a tiny bit below military grade.)

EDIT: Something I thought about military grade, this is a highly protected plasma research station (with top notch scientists, alien artifacts, plasma refining trade secrets, ectera.) with an emergency response team who could probably boast the size of a private army. Nanotransen is a mega company, and Tau Ceti has started to be a bit more unstable like Xander said. Aaand Lockheed doesn't have agents with the ability to detonate a nuke on the station knocking on their doors every few shifts.

Rusty:

Doesn't 22lr bounce around the inside or am I crazy? And i'm not talking about shrugging it off, i'm talking about stopping a .22 but not stopping a 5.56 and having it penetrate. Also we DO have advanced hard suits and space stations, i'm pretty sure somebody would invent a protective enough vest to stop .22 with minimal impact shock.

P.S: And flanking would be a mechanic that effects it because if you're flanked and hit in the side, your vest could not take any of the damage and you'd be hit directly, so it'd be a mechanic with the new armor.

[mrimatool]

Well I'm trying to think about game play, it would add a new "meta" of flanking but I am starting to agree with the variables [...]

 

...A mechanic which would be completely unaffected by what you're suggesting, regardless of whether or not we wish to implement it.

The "meta" that it would modify is the balance of power. It would give Security more arms, which would lead them to feel more comfortable in situations where they really shouldn't be. A research facility has no need for military grade weaponry. Not even Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works has an armoury filled with military level equipment in it. And that is probably the easiest real life comparison that I can think up.

 

Well, how about Police grade instead of military grade? (unless that's the same thing to you. But i'm american, police grade is only a tiny bit below military grade.)

EDIT: Something I thought about military grade, this is a highly protected plasma research station (with top notch scientists, alien artifacts, plasma refining trade secrets, ectera.) with an emergency response team who could probably boast the size of a private army. Nanotransen is a mega company, and Tau Ceti has started to be a bit more unstable like Xander said. Aaand Lockheed doesn't have agents with the ability to detonate a nuke on the station knocking on their doors every few shifts.

Rusty:

Doesn't 22lr bounce around the inside or am I crazy? And i'm not talking about shrugging it off, i'm talking about stopping a .22 but not stopping a 5.56 and having it penetrate. Also we DO have advanced hard suits and space stations, i'm pretty sure somebody would invent a protective enough vest to stop .22 with minimal impact shock.

P.S: And flanking would be a mechanic that effects it because if you're flanked and hit in the side, your vest could not take any of the damage and you'd be hit directly, so it'd be a mechanic with the new armor.

 

You're referring to hollow point rounds, they're the ones that shatter and fuck up your insides, but lack as much penetration power.

[Theplahunter]

(Snip)

You're referring to hollow point rounds, they're the ones that shatter and fuck up your insides, but lack as much penetration power.

Ohhhhhhhh.... Well uh, that could also add a variant of ammo.

[swat43]

I am actually curios.. as to why people do not want plasma weaponry or Mag weaponry?

Plasma, nearly like a combination of ballistics and energy weapons, fires projectiles but can melt you down into a puddle.

And Mag weaponry as to magnetic. Coil guns, rail guns, you name it. (though both have different mechanics and are built differently, but nearly the same objects and materials required)

[Hackie]

plasma weaponry

 

Plasma isn't even a weapon type in this universe I believe even then, plasma weaponry is really fuggin' strong in comparison to everything else, probably expensive.

[Theplahunter]

I am actually curios.. as to why people do not want plasma weaponry or Mag weaponry?

Plasma, nearly like a combination of ballistics and energy weapons, fires projectiles but can melt you down into a puddle.

And Mag weaponry as to magnetic. Coil guns, rail guns, you name it. (though both have different mechanics and are built differently, but nearly the same objects and materials required)

 

I have no issue with plasma or MAG. I actually would be happy if people came up with designs for MAG and plasma, i'd be more than happy to help design and balance it and make it gameplay worthy.

[mrimatool]

I am actually curios.. as to why people do not want plasma weaponry or Mag weaponry?

Plasma, nearly like a combination of ballistics and energy weapons, fires projectiles but can melt you down into a puddle.

And Mag weaponry as to magnetic. Coil guns, rail guns, you name it. (though both have different mechanics and are built differently, but nearly the same objects and materials required)

 

I coded in a plasma rifle a long time ago, but I think it was lost on one of the bay join ups.

[Theplahunter]

I am actually curios.. as to why people do not want plasma weaponry or Mag weaponry?

Plasma, nearly like a combination of ballistics and energy weapons, fires projectiles but can melt you down into a puddle.

And Mag weaponry as to magnetic. Coil guns, rail guns, you name it. (though both have different mechanics and are built differently, but nearly the same objects and materials required)

 

I coded in a plasma rifle a long time ago, but I think it was lost on one of the bay join ups.

 

I think plasma is not a good idea, it could fit in to the different weapons for different factions thing.

[swat43]

Heh, then why dont be have BFG2000? ingame? I mean it's better to have green deathball flying towards you vaporazing you into tiny bitty pieces

[Theplahunter]

Heh, then why dont be have BFG2000? ingame? I mean it's better to have green deathball flying towards you vaporazing you into tiny bitty pieces

 

You can apply for one of the companies that I have currently, only R&R is taken. I'd encourage you to take one and make the BFG2000 (as long as it's not named the BFG2000)

[Valkrae]

I'm in agreement with all of the previously stated points.

We really do not need more guns in the Sec. Armory. As it is now, Security has a tendency to be completely gung-ho and violent in terms to fighting antagonists. With even more guns, they're going to be even more gung-ho.

Source: Am Security.

[Theplahunter]

I'm in agreement with all of the previously stated points.

We really do not need more guns in the Sec. Armory. As it is now, Security has a tendency to be completely gung-ho and violent in terms to fighting antagonists. With even more guns, they're going to be even more gung-ho.

Source: Am Security.

 

But le pew pew....

An edit: One of my ideas was to keep them behind heavy duty blast doors that open during certain codes, code blue: Pistols, SMGs, and lower class shotguns. Code Red: Full armory opened up.

[Killerhurtz]

Shameless plug of my research idea that involves custom-made weapons

But yes, ballistics need more love.