Camera Removal II

[Butterrobber202]

Two Years ago I made a post about the incredibly pervasive camera placement on the Horizon. It was deemed null and void for two primary reasons

1. AI players need cameras to see to look at and interact with things.

2. Security (very recently) began to only have access to most Cameras on Code Blue.

Mainly point 2 was used as justification to install a camera in every single departmental room on the Horizon. There are barely hide or hair of any blind spots for the AI or Security on the current camera layout. You can not stash antagonist or contraband anywhere in a department without Security finding it. And no, it is not a matter of if Security finds it, its when. Investigators routinely make it their habit to cycle through every single camera on the ship until they find what they are looking for.

This makes it incredibly stressful on antagonists for no good reason. Especially since that their safe haven for camera-less space, Maintenance is filled to the brim with specialized rooms that contain cameras, sometimes even motion alarms.

Below, I am listing every single space in the Horizon that should have its cameras removed for the following reasons:

1. Antagonists need breathing room from Security and the AI on Codes besides Green. If someone yelps the wrong way, Command is often willing to raise to Blue and activate ship-wide cameras.

2. I think it would be nice if Security had a reason to issue search warrants beyond needing to physically show up to shake around potted plants.

The list of spaces have been chosen on the following qualities:

1. Remoteness

2. Need of AI coverage.

3. Security risk if uncovered by a camera. (Meaning if its not at risk if not covered.)

The list:

Spoiler

Command:

None. Command areas are important and are justified in being covered.

Medical:

1. The Morgue's off-rooms. Cremation and Emergency Supply Storage.

2. Staff Facilities (the break room). 

3. Medical Equipment Storage (Deck 3)

4. The Recovery Room

Operations:

1. Warehouse Side Rooms.

2. Mining Equipment (Locker Room)

3. Commissary Backroom

Security:

1. Interrogation Monitoring

Engineering:

1. All Departmental Substations. These are in maintenance and do not need oversight. Engineering and the AI can control them via RCON remotely. If something is wrong with them, an Engineer should need to go look at them.

2. Auxiliary Atmospherics. These are largely located in maintenance and contain nothing the AI can interact with. 

3. Engineering Break Room

4. Engineering Storage (Deck 1)

5. Drone Fabrication

Science:

1. Research Storage

2. Xenobiology Entrance (both doors can still be interacted with by the AI from the exterior hallway and interior cameras)

3. Suit Storage (Xenoarcheology Storage)

4. Spectrometry

Service:

1. Kitchen Freezer

2. Deck 1 Hydroponics Garden

3. Disposals/Crusher

4. Bar Backroom

5. Custodial Closet Storage (Deck 1)

6. Bar - Private Lounge

7. Chapel Backrooms

 

 

Edited April 9, 2024 by Butterrobber202
forgot about the chapel

[Roostercat]

I think this is a good idea, though I do disagree with a couple of the cameras. Namely, Interrogation Monitoring (its a place likely to have shit go down), Bar Backroom (its relatively open anyway and is generally viewable from the hallway anyway), and Private Lounge (public space, unneccesary to remove the camera here), Hydro garden (has access to command stairwell), and medical equipment storage (has too much shit in it for it to NOT be monitored). Otherwise, good suggestion.

[Butterrobber202]

12 hours ago, Roostercat said:

I think this is a good idea, though I do disagree with a couple of the cameras. Namely, Interrogation Monitoring (its a place likely to have shit go down), Bar Backroom (its relatively open anyway and is generally viewable from the hallway anyway), and Private Lounge (public space, unneccesary to remove the camera here), Hydro garden (has access to command stairwell), and medical equipment storage (has too much shit in it for it to NOT be monitored). Otherwise, good suggestion.

1. Interrogations Monitoring is not a room that is likely to have shit go down. Technically, its covered by the interior Interrogations camera until the windows are tinted. This is to provide someone in Security one more blindspot besides the bathrooms. This one I am willing to let go though.

2. The windows can be tinted, as far as I am aware. The point of it is to allow Bartenders to stow things unnoticed.

3. Private Lounge is a public space, but one that can be tinted. No need for it to be directly monitored in the first place. Additionally, while the windows are untinted, you can see into it from the nearby Bar Cameras.

4. Command Stairwell has its own camera, Hydro Garden does not need one.

5. Medical Equipment storage isn't being monitored because it has shit to steal in it, and its not a high-risk secure area, like the Vault or EVA. Also, it generally has little to no foot traffic after the round start prep is over, making it an ideal blind spot.

[Arrow768]

From the title I expected this to be a revive of one of the more controversial camera suggestions.
But this is actually pretty reasonable and could be interesting to try out.

[Carver]

Interrogation monitoring I don't agree with, but I definitely think that any little (aka not the warehouse lol) storage rooms shouldn't need cameras. I wouldn't really feel comfortable with the recovery room lacking one, or any room where you could reasonably expect people to be hanging out - but storage rooms are tailor made for 'walk in, walk out' and should be pushed to be more antag-friendly spaces.

If this was in the past, I'd express a fear of people abusing this to hide bodies where they'll never be found, but that's fairly ahelpable these days at the least.

[Sniblet]

As far as I know, the only tintable windows on the ship are the psychologist’s, the recovery room, the consulars’ offices, all command offices, the chaplain’s office, and interrogation. There used to be no window in the bar back room, but now there is one. There are exterior shutters for brushing off carp. Two tables can be shut off with curtains for four sets of two tiles of walkable space in which you can do a murder where everyone can hear the public domain combat noises. The bar can similarly be split in two with curtains, which does not impede camera coverage. Nothing in the fore service area tints.

Edited April 10, 2024 by Sniblet

[NerdyVampire]

Like everyone else here, there are some I agree with and some I don't. Speaking as an AI main I actually don't mind exchanging some oversight, if it helps antagonists a bit - and maybe leads to more antagonist players.

I'll quickly go over my list of objections.

Medical:
Equipment and recovery are areas that make sense to monitor, due to the value of the equipment and the patients inside.

Engineering:
The break room is very large and I don't see why it shouldn't be monitored. Engineers can easily access hiding places across the ship, they do not need their break room unmonitored. In general I do prefer meeting rooms, like this, to also be monitored so the AI can holocall into it to join meetings or conduct briefings - rare though that is.

Drone Fabrication -> There is a niche mechanic that allows the AI (and others) to use the drone console to request a drone to an area. I actually use it when I see active drones, I would like to continue being able to do that. But we could move the console to the AI core instead.

Science:
Research storage -> is meant to house valuable items, so I believe it is well justified in having a camera installed.

Service:
Custodial closet deck 1 -> janitors have easy access to many hiding places including other departments. As it is an "active" workplace, I do feel it is warranted as well.

I might suggest removing the window into the bar backroom instead. Why do crew need to look into that anyway?

All the other suggestions you put forward, I don't have any big issue with.  In the same remapping, I would appreciate a few cameras added to command though, in the conference room (as AI is often involved in the conferences here) and XO's office (it's just an annoying black spot).

Edited April 12, 2024 by NerdyVampire
use -> move

[Butterrobber202]

1 hour ago, NerdyVampire said:

snipped

1. The recovery area on Deck 3 is almost never used. Patients usually just sprint out of medical. Its a RP place that is not secure or highly valued. The Medical Equipment room contains medical belts, hypo-sprays and the syringe gun. The Syringe Gun is the only notable thing worth monitoring, but it does not warrant a camera on its own.

2. The break room is a break room. It is not an important area. If the AI needs to attend a meeting, it can be held in their office near the main hallway. As for drone fabrication, yes, the console should definitely be moved. I was unaware of that functionality.

3. Research Storage is an auxiliary storage bay. Any significant items are usually stored in Xenoarch's containment rooms or inside the Labs themselves. Round start, it contains lockers and an empty table.

4. Its a closet. Its not an active work place. A normal janitor isn't expected to spend much time here. Its on the same level as all of the other locker rooms. Even then, that specific area I'm mentioning is the Deck 1 Janitor Area's backroom. Yeah, I agree with the window being weird a the bar.

[Carver]

3 hours ago, Butterrobber202 said:

1. The recovery area on Deck 3 is almost never used. Patients usually just sprint out of medical. Its a RP place that is not secure or highly valued.

Why not? This is an RP server, it being an 'RP place' shouldn't mean it's overlooked. Patients should be kept safe.

[Butterrobber202]

1 hour ago, Carver said:

Why not? This is an RP server, it being an 'RP place' shouldn't mean it's overlooked. Patients should be kept safe.

Yes, and its medical's job to monitor them. Not Security or the AI.

[Carver]

11 minutes ago, Butterrobber202 said:

Yes, and its medical's job to monitor them. Not Security or the AI.

Who in medical, the non-existent Nurses?

[Butterrobber202]

7 minutes ago, Carver said:

Who in medical, the non-existent Nurses?

This does not change whose job it belongs to. If a patient is wishing to do recovery RP, it falls to medical to facilitate it.

That said, its not like Security is going to provide much RP staring at them through a camera.

[Carver]

1 minute ago, Butterrobber202 said:

This does not change whose job it belongs to. If a patient is wishing to do recovery RP, it falls to medical to facilitate it.

That said, its not like Security is going to provide much RP staring at them through a camera.

Which they can’t do on code green. If it’s a higher alert, then keeping an eye on disabled crew during an emergency is a more than wise move given they’re highly vulnerable to begin with.

[NerdyVampire]

On 12/04/2024 at 00:26, Butterrobber202 said:

1. The recovery area on Deck 3 is almost never used. Patients usually just sprint out of medical. Its a RP place that is not secure or highly valued. The Medical Equipment room contains medical belts, hypo-sprays and the syringe gun. The Syringe Gun is the only notable thing worth monitoring, but it does not warrant a camera on its own.

2. The break room is a break room. It is not an important area. If the AI needs to attend a meeting, it can be held in their office near the main hallway. As for drone fabrication, yes, the console should definitely be moved. I was unaware of that functionality.

3. Research Storage is an auxiliary storage bay. Any significant items are usually stored in Xenoarch's containment rooms or inside the Labs themselves. Round start, it contains lockers and an empty table.

4. Its a closet. Its not an active work place. A normal janitor isn't expected to spend much time here. Its on the same level as all of the other locker rooms. Even then, that specific area I'm mentioning is the Deck 1 Janitor Area's backroom. Yeah, I agree with the window being weird a the bar.

1. Just can't agree with you on these. The equipment room has a clear purpose and it makes sense to monitor it, even if mechanically the items aren't worth much. Do we really need to remove it, if we remove the break room camera? Patient recovery seems like a reasonable place to monitor from an IC standpoint, even if we OOC'ly know it isn't used much. Ideally a future medical remap will make better use of the space. An alternative is to remove the window in the medical office on deck 2, so it can actually be used for scummy activity. (Personally I would put psychiatry on deck 3 and some recovery rooms on deck 2 instead)

2. It's a meeting room just like security, medical and research have meeting rooms. It just doubles as a break room and I can't agree that it isn't used enough to warrant a camera. But we can remove the Indra reactor office, that plus your other suggestions should further give enough options to antag engineering players.

3. Its purpose is to store experimental weaponry, circuitry and other non-anomaly material. It makes sense for there to be a camera, even if it isn't used IC'ly.

4. I can agree with the backroom, but janitor is the one I see the least reason for giving help as said. They have access to many places and multiple departments after all.

In general I agree with many of your suggestions, but I don't want to advocate more removal than is necessary for each department to have just enough antag-wiggleroom to make sense.