Add Hoverbeds to the the "Stairs are Dangerous" PR or Allow Pushing To Be Safe

[Acetrea]

I can see how the addition of this PR adds a sense of realism, I believe as it is now is currently detrimental to red-tagged patients on deck one or three and inconvenient without additions.

Red-tagged patients do not have the time to wait for the elevator, and there is no doubt in my mind that players will simply unbuckle the patient from the bed, drag them up the stairs, and then place them back onto the bed. I bring this up now because I witnessed multiple people unable to be saved from bone-breaking, arterial rupturing, amputating vines in this past round because we simply took too much time to get them up the stairs, and the elevators were unreachable. It was mentioned in the PR the addition of hoverbeds, but this was never added and I find it to be in bad taste to remove the ability to use stairs with roller beds and crates but not add the planned workaround at the same time.

Many places are stair-locked, like the Morgue, the storage area for materials in the machine shop, the front area of the bridge, and I'm sure there are a few more somewhere.

 

Therefore, I feel like there needs to be logical workarounds added to this PR.

Edited May 17 by Acetrea

[greenjoe]

There is a PR to add hoverbeds up currently, though they are only being added to research at first, since the adding them for first responders part was contested, and removed to not hold up the PR.

[Fluffy]

I'll copy-paste what I already said in another similar thread:

 

New additions are protected by the "one month no revert" rule

This does not prevent the submitter of the original PR or anyone else from improving or tweaking the work, in fact it is kind of expected for the work to be tweaked in said month by the original PR submitter

It does however prevent reverts or effectively-reverts from happening within the aforementioned period of time, possibly with the exclusion of the original submitter changing mind? I'm not sure on this last part

 

As this suggestion is suggesting a revert before the aforementioned time has elapsed, it appears to be an attempt to circumvent the aforementioned rule; If you want to discuss improvements/tweaks, the title and OP should reflect that instead

[Crozarius]

I like the spirit of the stairs are dangerous PR. If anything, this just exposes the unrealistic mapping of Medical, and medical should be remapped with this in mind instead of reverting the dangerous stairs thing

[Sparky_hotdog]

2 minutes ago, Acetrea said:

It was mentioned in the PR the addition of hoverbeds, but this was never added

As the author of that PR, it's in it's waiting period. Unfortunately the stairs PR was merged without much thought for accessibility, but there are steps being taken to resolve this. The only part of that PR that has changed was the removal of the starting beds for FRs, as I felt having producible beds in game took priority over that debate. They can still be added at round start later if there is support for that.

5 minutes ago, Acetrea said:

Many places are stair-locked, like the Morgue, the storage area for materials in the machine shop, the front area of the bridge, and I'm sure there are a few more somewhere

Speaking of things being worked on, this is another - I coded and made ramps to allow places like the morgue, bridge, machinists and service areas accessible to all. It's currently being held back by a weird map merge issue, but again, this is in the works. It also features a lift to deck 3 medical for extra ease.

I do think this PR shouldn't have been fully merged without modifications made before hand - Ideally a test merge, find the really grievous issues, fix, then full merge - and I think that should probably be a consideration in future. But the one month rule exists for good reason, and I do think we can make this work with time, to the benefit of the game.

[Acetrea]

17 minutes ago, Sparky_hotdog said:

Ideally a test merge, find the really grievous issues, fix, then full merge - and I think that should probably be a consideration in future.

I absolutely agree with this.

The other main point that I'm trying to get at here is my example of what happened in the previous round. 

Killer vines, which can even appear on extended, completely made the elevators inaccessible and the stairs contributed to the deaths of most of the 8 people that died since we really had no way of using them besides grabbing and pulling people up the stairs. And I don't believe not being able to get to elevators will be a very rare occurrence either.

I really like the idea of hover beds, but I think that being locked behind research levels makes it too difficult to get them. I feel like being able to push up and down stairs could accomplish what this PR is trying to get at, by forcing those trying to move roller beds up and down stairs to stop pulling, move behind the bed or crate, and push it up the stairs, then having to move back around and start pulling again.

Edited May 17 by Acetrea

[greenjoe]

1 minute ago, Acetrea said:

I really like the idea of hover beds, but I think that being locked behind research levels makes it too difficult to get them.

hopefully after the initial rollerbeds PR is in, one can be put up to be added for FRs
depends if maintainers will accept that however.

[Desven]

Maybe derailing the topic, but I don’t want hoverbeds to just become the reason why we avoid accessibility and better mapping. I think remapping Medical should be priority now with the dangerous stairs in mind.

[Acetrea]

36 minutes ago, Desven said:

Maybe derailing the topic, but I don’t want hoverbeds to just become the reason why we avoid accessibility and better mapping. I think remapping Medical should be priority now with the dangerous stairs in mind.

I wouldn't mind a remap of medical, like giving medical a lift to all decks I imagine is what people are thinking? The thing is we need to get someone to do it. I have no idea how to map, I barely know how to code very basic things, and I think it was Read who was doing a ton of remapping but they are on hiatus.

44 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

hopefully after the initial rollerbeds PR is in, one can be put up to be added for FRs
depends if maintainers will accept that however.

Definitely worth a shot, I don't think that would be super hard to map in either.

[CatsinHD]

Imma go ahead and throw my 2 cents in. Full disclosure, I am an FR-main.

Right now, my chief concern is getting patients to and fro, as that is both MY gameplay loop AND enables the rest of medical's gameplay loop. I like the stairs are dangerous PR, but as Sparky Hotdog put it, it would've been better as a test-merge. While idc as much about crates, given those are not time sensitive, it does cause major issues for FR in many situations. As a gentle reminder, while the MAIN elevator is incredibly fast, the unprotected elevators by security and the morgue are horrendously slow. I sincerely mean slow. A red tag would die waiting for one those elevators to reach your floor. Ask me how I know.

So, what about the proposed "fixes" (fixes is a bad term but I'm not a wordsmith)? Remapping the Horizon to meet ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act for those not aware) standards would be amazing. Ensuring the depressed wheelchair main can get their daily allotment of booze from the bar would be nice, rather than being blocked by the deadly stairs and a lack of maintenance access. This is the ideal, and ultimate end goal. HOWEVER, I am very concerned about the proposed 3 deck elevator for Medical.
1. Those elevators are an OSHA nightmare (please dear god can we code in safety locks on the doors?) and
2. they are ungodly slow making it unviable for most critical cases
That being said, those 2 points are either going to cause a flame war and a debate I don't have the energy for or can be fixed with relatively simple code changes afaik.

What about hoverbeds? I like hoverbeds, they're neat. While I would normally say yes to adding 2 of them to FRs, if the Horizon really can be remapped (and the above concerns are addressed), then I'd honestly say no and instead leave them to science for production. You'll see why in the next paragraph.

Do I want to completely get around the PR? No. It is more "realistic", but as has been pointed out before, the Horizon is a shitshow in terms of design when you take the stairs changes into account. However, we should also mind the difference between a hard counter and soft counter. Dangerous stairs but free elevators is only a soft counter. A hard counter is dangerous stairs and NO elevator, or unviable elevators (in the case of the vines outbreak). Soft counters generate RP and force changes in strategy. Hard counters make me want to cryo and stop playing the role. The soft fix is remapping the Horizon, the hard fix is hoverbeds.

TLDR; remap the Horizon and let science produce hoverbeds. Am I a salty FR main? Yes.

[Rabid Animal]

Honestly rollerbeds in life are designed to be able to go up and down stairs, in an emergency you don't know if you're going to need go up someone's stairs in their home. I see no reason the rollerbeds do not work this way on the horizon, genuinely. At worst I'd suggest a slowdown, but otherwise they really ought not to be affected by stairs, esp the smaller ones.

 

Remapping the horizon to have less stairs removes a lot of the dimensionality that stairs added in the first place. I think the ramps look bad and I'd rather see rooms flattened than have ramps.

[Fluffy]

As the original PR was reverted, this suggestion is considered effectively implemented

Locking and archiving