Character Complaint - Nukes 8.25.2015

[Japak121]

BYOND Key: Japak121

Player Byond Key: Saintsbury, DRUZ IM NOT DRUGZ

Staff involved: Myself, Tainavaa, Doomberg

Reason for complaint: Poor antagging, Gank, Powergaming

Approximate Date/Time: AUGUST.25th.2015, between 2:00 - 3:00pm EST

I'm writing this up due to the amount of ahelps at one time and the number of players involved all at once.

Basically, the Nuke Ops came aboard and immediately went for the captain's spare ID and thermite. They then went and ordered LWAPs from cargo. After that, they bombed the AI core room. During this time they gunned down multiple security (to be expected), and shot several civilians (not to be expected) with little to no interaction at all. This essentially turned the station into a sort of warzone.

I'd like to pull up a few rules the antag players SHOULD know already:

-Being an antagonist does not exempt you from any server rules.

-The primary goal of antags is to CONTRIBUTE TO OTHERS' ENJOYMENT. Be creative when coming up with objective, and try to do things which will be fun for others, not only for yourself.

-Only resort to killing if it makes sense. Randomly killing someone because you’re a traitor will get you removed right quick. However, in certain situations, murder can serve as a tool, if none other applicable. If you’re uncertain, ask for guidance via adminhelps.

-No ganking. While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. Collateral damage is acceptable within reason, but this means you must use common sense, and avoid creating scenarios with a lot of potential for collateral (setting bombs in high-traffic areas, etc.)

-Avoid pain. A sane, well-rounded character would not engage in actions that are overly painful, or put themselves in harm's way without consideration (e.g. going EVA without a suit, stabbing themselves repeatedly, or continue to run at someone after being shot multiple times.)

Powergaming = Also know as 'playing to win'. If you're trying to complete your objectives, kill the antagonists, or 'win', at all costs and ignore RP, you may be better off somewhere else.

Every single one of these was ignored. Nothing about this was creative (although I get that can be difficult), The killing was pretty random considering there was no clear objective from the antags except 'arm up and kill what moves', and there was no roleplay. When it comes to antag vs security, OF COURSE you're going to shoot first in most situations as a Nuke. We get that. But shooting doctors AT ALL is ridiculous and ganky.

Before you say 'oh, what ELSE are nukes supposed to do?!' .. keep in mind there have been PLENTY of rounds that lots of people enjoyed where this DID NOT happen. Nukes still shot at people, still blew things up.. but everyone had fun.

[Jboy2000000]

I can see why someone who wasn't a mod/admin would make a complaint about this, but, you're a mod, and isn't Doomy an admin? Why didn't you just take disciplinary actions in game? Isn't it redundant to wait until the round ends to make a complaint, even though you have the means to give them punishment immediately? And, if they did break so many rules, wouldn't this be a ban complaint rather than a player complaint?

[witchbells]

Because these people need to justify themselves publicly.

This is a heavy roleplay server. Rules regarding roleplay were not adhered to, and very few of the operatives actions made sense, as if they had never planned at all. Considering how the majority of them conducted themselves, I'm quite convinced that they didn't.

Civilians and security were reportedly shot on sight with very little interaction, with operatives charging forth even when under fire. They broke into high security areas, sabotaged communications and the medical bay, and generally did very little outside of the generic nuke round formula. If I didn't know better, I'd have thought I was playing on Hippie Station.

[Japak121]

1. I made the complaint because of the sheer amount of stuff that would have to go into an ahelp. Could you imagine filling an antag screen with all that? Especially with the back and forth? What happened already happened, no reason to basically ruin any chance of fun for others after the fact. I let it end instead of having to simultaneously bwoink FOUR people, tell them all of that, and then discuss it back and forth and THEN modify there notes. It's more convenient for everyone involved.

2. It fosters discussion and leaves this open for those who participated but didn't ahelp to make there thoughts known and provide insight.

3. I don't want to see them banned. For several of them, it isn't ban worthy as it's a first offense. For others, it's likely to just end up as an antag-ban and nothing more. All of which shouldn't be decided by one person (everyone else was involved, even Doom) who is dealing with all of it PLUS numerous other ahelps that were coming in ranging from other incidents of rule violations to game mechanic questions.

[Guest Menown]

From a Security Officer's View during the round.

Run into Nuke Ops causing breaches with god knows how much thermite all over the station. Told to get down. I flee the scene, as I was around a corner, and had the opportunity to. I however didn't report this Op over my radio, 1) They took out Tcomms as their first act of the round, 2) I felt the Op wouldn't chase me down and kill me if he didn't hear me give out his little plan.

Instantly take two shots in a dark hallway near arrivals from a LWAP. I barely get up after the first shot before I'm dropped again. Get told 'Run away, Cat' over the radio as I flee the scene.

Ops breach enter from the command pods. I see them, and again I flee. However, I re-enter the tunnel, to see if they've left, and I'm put down with another LWAP shot. Again, the shooter nowhere to be seen. Laying out suppressive fire, I flee the tunnel and re-enter with backup, having acquired my shotgun I had been forced to drop. Myself and another officer down an Op, and while trying to get the Op in custody, more sniper fire takes me down, and I'm put into crit. The officer quickly becomes surrounded, and he throws down his weapon in surrender, hands up high.

The Op that had been downed, steps over and aims at him, and proceeds to put three laser shots in his chest, putting the officer in crit, before taking him along as a dying hostage.

FAST FORWARD TO MEDICAL!

Ops enter medical. Phoebe is in the middle of cloning me, and Ops charge in. The one that shot the previous officer then proceeds to shoot her. She is killed of course. Unfortunately, he is the High King of Skyrim. This same Op, holds the medical bay down, while an ERT is dispatched with Dark Gygaxes. In a true fashion of avoid pain, he is shot, beaten, ect, and lit full of what I assume is several rounds from a ballistic( I was still in a body bag with my old corpse, as well as Yinzr's, who was also shot dead without a word ). I make it through the halls in the bag, as the newly cloned Yinzr drags me to a cryo tube. I get to observe the Operative fighting toe to toe with two Gygaxes, avoid any RP, or any pain from the fact that he's being shot and beaten to death.

From what I saw during this all. Starting with the Operatives stealing the Spare ID, and rushing cargo to get LWAPs, there wasn't any effort to RP. Only to either kill as many people as possible, and not even to get dat disk. They came to kill, as /many/ people as they could. Which, they did.

[Japak121]

I'm logical enough to know that your entire tirade of personal insults won you zero points with anyone and did little to reinforce any facts you made.

I wasn't there and the reasons I gave for doing it here are something I stand by.

You make some good points for you personally. Did you ever consider that maybe without all the insults, your points alone would have garnered you a pass? No. You got angry and decided to include a personal attack, even though I never pointed you out specifically.

I hope you don't understand me because that post was so vile, I would never want to be on the same level as you.

[Alberyk]

I was a not aware that the nukes ops were at the command pod, so I didn't exactly plan to flank them, I was returning from the core, because the officers said that the operatives were inside the station, but, anyway, seeing the situation ghosting after being killed makes more sense shooting at Yinzr right straight. Also, due to the lack of comms, I was really unware of how the confrontation between both forces were unfolding.

Still, one of the nuclear operatives shoot Essel with lethals, if his energy carbine was empty or anything, that is quite clear, since, she was running from them. About "speedmurder, I get boinked and yelled at too. The only issues I kinda had with the round was the surrendering officer being shoot twice, which can be due to how aiming works, and Essel being shoot with the smg.

But, anyway, I kinda understand that you all had to deal with a lot of problems, such as squad members getting lost, like what happened to the diona, and etc. Nuke rounds can be a messy and people can be salty due to the heat of the moment.

[Guest Menown]

The thing I disliked the most, and what I had the most issue with, was the straight powerplay to blitz for the ID and get LWAPs. That's where my issue lies. Went straight for Tcomms to handicap us, then raided for the LWAPs, then proceeded to take out whatever armed security you could, Delta.

I don't care what happened, or how, I just want to know why. What decided that the round would be 'No RP, Kill Time Nuke'.

[Jboy2000000]

Right, at this point you're both now throwing a bit of dirt at each other. Im not usually the one to step into things, but maybe I can throw a shilling into the well just this once?

Now, I wasn't in the server during this round, not even for a second, so I can't and won't judge Delta's or any of the Nuke Op's decisions, but I can say some stuff about whats been said.

Like, Delta, you said that would understand more about what Aurora is supposed to be "about" because you've been playing Aurora for so long, but that might not automatically make you in the right. Remember "Ho-Lee Shit."? The whole fiasco with Farcry and Hive? I can't recall correctly if it was the forums or the server's OOC, but somewhere Skull said this may have been in part because Farcry had been since Aurora since the way back times, and stuff like implanted staff torturing people was acceptable, and you yourself said you were firmly in the stands of saying they were wrong and outside of the rules to do it, even though it was how things were when Farcry was still a regular. Im not saying this pairs perfectly with this situation, but food for thought.

In the very same thread mentioned above, you also said you'd have a better chance getting RP out of a piss pot over a security member, thats how 99% of people see nuke ops too, because in your own words, you said its a game mode about terrorists and terrorism, and it looks like most people here agree that the nuke ops here are the "piss pots" in this situation.

Id love to say more, but I can't really look down and cite or re read through what was said anymore since your post is gone. So, what I said here, food for thought, etc, etc.

[Guest]

I was a not aware that the nukes ops were at the command pod, so I didn't exactly plan to flank them, I was returning from the core, because the officers said that the operatives were inside the station, but, anyway, seeing the situation ghosting after being killed makes more sense shooting at Yinzr right straight. Also, due to the lack of comms, I was really unware of how the confrontation between both forces were unfolding.

 

You could be a complete stranger and I would still say it's really hard to believe you happened there by chance. The fact you came into my FLIR vision completely shocked me, I didn't anticipate you being around there. I was anticipating an immediate shutdown based on how you've dealt with antagonists in the past, and I didn't want to be a repeat because I figured I still had a whole round to go. I unloaded half a magazine onto you, knowing you would be found and cloned. We were in an extremely tight spot and it was extremely inconvenient you were there.

 

Still, one of the nuclear operatives shoot Essel with lethals, if his energy carbine was empty or anything, that is quite clear, since, she was running from them. About "speedmurder, I get boinked and yelled at too. The only issues I kinda had with the round was the surrendering officer being shoot twice, which can be due to how aiming works, and Essel being shoot with the smg.

 

I've no idea why this happened, but it led to an absolutely painstaking effort of trying to heal this person after being shot randomly by another antagonist who I presumed to be extremely new, considering they didn't know how to use a sniper rifle. I really apologize for this painful turn of events, this was completely out of my control and it frustrated me to an absolutely ridiculous degree that I lost control of the team at this point even though I wasn't intending to lead it.

 

But, anyway, I kinda understand that you all had to deal with a lot of problems, such as squad members getting lost, like what happened to the diona, and etc. Nuke rounds can be a messy and people can be salty due to the heat of the moment.

 

This round was part frustrating and part not. I didn't know any of the people in the squad, so I immediately decided on doing my own thing and dicking around on the station stealing worthless items. My intention was to be completely meaningless and to test-drive the amount of mobility I can get from tearing up maintenance with thermite without the need for the spare ID. Soon, security got its claws out and I nearly got shot at. I figured I'd do what was expected of me and make an effort to shoot back. When I got word over a bounce radio they were armed to the teeth, I opted on LWAPs to make things interesting and make the security officers run like hell because we had bigger teeth.

 

The thing I disliked the most, and what I had the most issue with, was the straight powerplay to blitz for the ID and get LWAPs. That's where my issue lies. Went straight for Tcomms to handicap us, then raided for the LWAPs, then proceeded to take out whatever armed security you could, Delta.

 

Tcomms wasn't my decision. Fighting wasn't my intention, until I nearly got into a fatal scrape with the detective just by stealing Lamarr. LWAPs were to even the odds and to make security afraid of looking for us/fighting us. Apparently, I ended up using them to be more effective than they were originally intended to be.

 

I don't care what happened, or how, I just want to know why. What decided that the round would be 'No RP, Kill Time Nuke'.

 

It was exactly what the other ops wanted, and I had no choice nor any power to guide the nuke team into a direction that would be roleplaying. I missed the briefing because I was busy cooking up mac'n'cheese for the nephew, so I had no fucking clue what we were doing, and I ended up deciding I didn't care.

 

Like, Delta, you said that would understand more about what Aurora is supposed to be "about" because you've been playing Aurora for so long, but that might not automatically make you in the right. Remember "Ho-Lee Shit."? The whole fiasco with Farcry and Hive? I can't recall correctly if it was the forums or the server's OOC, but somewhere Skull said this may have been in part because Farcry had been since Aurora since the way back times, and stuff like implanted staff torturing people was acceptable, and you yourself said you were firmly in the stands of saying they were wrong and outside of the rules to do it, even though it was how things were when Farcry was still a regular. Im not saying this pairs perfectly with this situation, but food for thought.

 

Partly because Farcry was absolutely and unequivocally wrong here for shooting people as a non-antagonist. Hurting people, as a non-antagonist, when the situation didn't even call for it. Their decision-making made no sense and it set an awful precedent, they were rather lucky nobody else got hurt. The damage was controlled, so he got away with it.

The difference here was this: I felt like I got lumped into the rest of the ops bad decision making and terrible judgement calls. I did know what I was doing, but it was neither for the intention of griefing or taking people out of the round.

[Guest Menown]

I missed the briefing because I was busy cooking up mac'n'cheese for the nephew

 

With this revelation, I vote we move for dismissal and issue a ban in place for Delta's nephew.

[LordFowl]

This player complaint, as has been pointed out before, is not only about Boss. The personal input of the other nuke operatives present may be useful.

[Boltersam]

I'm sorry, but I was miles away from the station. earlier on in the round I had been thrown into a force field by the singularity and got shot miles away, into an asteroid. the only place I was able to get to that was even remotely connected to the station was the mining outpost, but the shuttle wasn't there so I still couldn't get back, so I spent a while wandering around trying to find the station before getting bored and ghosting.

If you want my input on my teammates actions, the original plan was to blow up telecoms, and disable the generator of the station, and then move over to medical and take the crew in medical hostage. and also to steal their organs to sell, but that was later on.

[Japak121]

Alright, given that two people made some good points about how they were playing and what there intent was, I've removed OneOneThreeEight and Boltersam from the offenders in this complaint, as it seems to me that Boltersam was lost in space for the majority of the game and 1138 was simply caught in a tight spot while one or two of the other nukes did whatever they wanted.

[Frances]

It would be nice to know why medbay doctors (Phoebe, at least?) were shot.

Some of the other things presented here aren't bad per se, but should be considered simply for the context they provide to the reported "kill-all" attitude of the ops. But I don't think people should be judged for stealing the spare ID, ordering weapons from cargo, or taking down Tcomms alone. There is nothing wrong with these actions, they're just here to explain why the other "bad" actions looked especially bad in context.

Dunno if that was obvious or not - from the way the OP was phrased I was getting sorta afraid it wasn't. If it is then you can all ignore me and I'll shut up now

[Saintsbury]

I can't really remember that round to be honest.

I know of three I played over the last couple of days. One was with josh1133 as CoSyndicate, so I doubt that you meant that round.

The other two are kind of tricky, because I'm confused what happened in what round.

Well in both of those rounds I got hit by the singularity emitters as unrobust as I am.

In one of them, I went back to the syndicate ship and patched myself up as far as I could, from that point on I was alone, then I went full undercover, got myself completly patched up in MedBay by Echoes Of Ancient Times, thanks to OneOneThreeEight busting open the CMO office from maintanance with thermite. I used the CMO's biosuit to conceal myself and stole a crewmembers (The dead xenobiologists) identity with the Syndie ID and Syndie Mask, then tried to follow up with my teammates who had a shoot out with some security guys inside maintanance above the cryostorages. I succumbed to my infection soon after as far as I remember. In that round I didn't kill anybody, I was even unarmed because I left all my syndi stuff in a stash in MedBay maintanance and never got it back. If something happened afterwards, I already can't remember what happened and I would appriciate if an admin could look up in the logs what I actually did. I had neither sniper or my machinegun or any weaponary at all with me as far as I can remember.That round got then fucked over by Doomberg's heavily armed Gygax. But we didn't blow the AI up as far as I remember.

The other round we wrecked havok in engineering. I once again got shot by an emitter, but that round I killed a cyborg and a hartsuited security officer. Then we moved to medbay, where I got crit due to infections, and the AI, I think it was even played by Japak121, bullied me out of cryo all the time. I soon after died to my infections. We got rushed over by security soon afterwards at the surgery room.

Sorry I answered so late, Tenenza just told me that someone complained about me. If I confused some evernts, please enlighten me with you superior memory, for I am too dumb to remember what actually happened.

[Guest]

The first one was the one you were talking about, I recall your role in this round.

That leaves the other guy, with the funny, mostly unrecognizable ckey. They were the only one rather hellbent on killing everything. Pretty sure they were the only one who opened fire on a single civilian who didn't outright deserve it/had the situation escalated upon.

[Tenenza]

An update on this:

DRUZ IM NOT DRUGZ has not logged onto the server since this event has happened, so they have been unavailable for comment regarding this.

[Shadow]

The player 'DRUZ IM NOT DRUGZ' has not logged onto the server since this event.

Locked and archived because of inactivity. If the player in question returns the complaint will be re-opened.