Complaint : Lucy Sparks

[Guest]

BYOND Key: Inverted_Rectum

Player Byond Key: Seven_Ghost

Reason for complaint:I was minding my own business being a service cyborg, when the syndicate attacked.So I turned myself into a security cyborg to combat this threat, somewhere during this period or before that the roboticist had decided to cut my AI link for some reason, my laws remained corporate and I generally did nothing suspicious, same for another medical cyborg (As far as im aware).I was patrolling the station when both me and the medborg were blown up.The Research Director Lucy Sparks had decided the fact that we're unslaved to the AI was grounds for immediate termination and silently detonated us from her office without even a word of warning or attempt to communicate.Your only motivation for this seems to be your claim we were somehow "Acting up" because the medborg once went in your office.

So im making this complaint because silently blowing the borgs because one of them went in your office is a ridiculously shitty thing to do.

[Skull132]

Player CKey added, player informed.

[Guest]

My reasoning was this: borgs had gone into science, taken down the hazard locks multiple times and shocked the the door to the messaging server, which was shut down. My foot was blown off and I was put into crit touching the door and then armed intruders began invading. When borgs barged into my office and took down the locks one more time, I had enough. I blew both borgs that weren't slaved to the AI.

Perhaps it was a bit rash that I didn't just lock them down, and yes there was no communication; because the messaging server was down. However, I stand by my decision. Borgs should be slaved to AI normally and during an emergency situation where their actions are repeatedly putting my team at risk, I'm going to take the actions necessary to reduce risk.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Guest

[Guest]

I might add that the borg who was slaved was not blown and did not do anything to put my team at risk for the rest of the round.

In the future, consider the risks that being unslaved brings. If you let it happen intentionally, then reconsider what you're putting yourself at risk for. If it was done /to/ you then seek out robotics to be put straight.

However outside of an emergency, this wouldn't have happened.

[ForgottenTraveller]

Side note. You said you were a security borg/droid hen your uplink wire was cut but your laws were normal? Law 4 has an explicit line about modifications without reason. By not turning around and reporting the issue while arresting the robotocist who did it you violate that law. As you were unslaved at the point of this emergency and had effectively operated outside of your laws, locking down/blowing up as part and parcel with the medical unit seems normal. Seven may have acted harshly but as for not communicating it. For all Director Sparks knew you were unlawed and unslaved and mentioning it could have wound up with her tazed or her door shocked as she tried to stop what she deemed a threat.

But as I am not a witness to the issue ignore as you see fit. Just keep law 4 in mind.

[K0NFL1QT]

Having played a borg that was blown with very little cause myself, it's pretty frustrating when it happens. Not that it was Lucy, but just like the Detective with his lethal gun, the killswitch should only be used as a last resort if the borg in question is on a confirmed killspree. Other than that, you should always try to lockdown and recover any borg deemed to be malfunctioning to drag it to a roboticist for a checkup.

That's my take anyway.

[Tenenza]

If you lock down a borg, this gives you time to monologue to them about how they are mere pawns before your might. Or something. Better to not just win one battle, but all of them forever. Instill fear into them, and make them remember that they are forver at the mercy of the Research Department. Then, they will obey. Or something.

I dunno.

I mostly just ignore compaints about the borgs unless they are actually getting in my/the useful members of research's way. Also Engineering.

[Guest]

My reasoning was this: borgs had gone into science, taken down the hazard locks multiple times and shocked the the door to the messaging server, which was shut down. My foot was blown off and I was put into crit touching the door and then armed intruders began invading. When borgs barged into my office and took down the locks one more time, I had enough. I blew both borgs that weren't slaved to the AI.

Perhaps it was a bit rash that I didn't just lock them down, and yes there was no communication; because the messaging server was down. However, I stand by my decision. Borgs should be slaved to AI normally and during an emergency situation where their actions are repeatedly putting my team at risk, I'm going to take the actions necessary to reduce risk.

 

The syndicate had not hit the Communications satelite, and even if they did you have access to radios in the research department.As far as im aware you hadn't announced your door related injury, and didnt ask for the AI or the borgs to explain themselves for it.Further more, the only borg to fuck with the department locks was the medical borg.I had only gone in Research once, and I did so trough maintenance so I dont fuck with the locks.

But this all boils down to the fact that you had the choice between locking the cyborgs and blowing them.As far as you were aware the borgs were unslaved and the AI was on your side, so there was no danger of something unlocking them.You decided to pull the killswitch on a suspected crime which you hadn't even bothered to discuss with security, or your own roboticist.Not to mention you blew up an armored war machine that might as well be on your side (Or be effortlessly converted on your side after being locked) in the middle of the emergency you mentioned.My death was collateral damage since your culprit was the Medborg.This is the equivalent of a sec officer randomly batoning an assistant to death for the crime he saw some other assistant commit, and than batoning that assistant to death too.

I stand by my accusation.You were unable to contain your murderection, and did everything in your power to avoid communication, or a peaceful outcome of the situation.All in your silent quest to soothe your research hermit's bloodboner with glorious synthetic valid kill juice.

[Guest]

Frankly, I don't know why communications were down, but I know I got them running again after my leg was put right and I was out of danger. I communicated with my own team about what was going on thoroughly and they even saved my life. Nobody knew who snipped the borgs, and if they did they were lying. I had no idea if the AI was rogue and I suspected it was but had no desire to call its attention to me, nor the attention of any potentially rogue borgs. The Head of Security and his team were actively engaging another threat, and I couldn't even contact them.

I didn't have the time or health to piss about trying to contact borgs without comms and without leaving my locked department while also in severe critical condition, putting myself and my team at risk in multiple ways. Armed intruders were bearing down on my location, I was dying and I had six lives under my direction to save. I couldn't risk the AI reactivating borgs I had locked down so I blew them. There was no malicious intent in what I did, I don't enjoy or resort to killing outside of a last resort, and I stand by my actions to save my life and the life of my team.

Follow Law 4 and have a safe shift, Inside_Out_Starfish.

[Lessick]

Just as a note, law four states, "Do not allow unauthorized personnel to tamper with your equipment," which I think is slightly open to interpretation, and doesn't strictly mean, "Don't allow modifications without reason" or "don't allow unauthorized [by heads] modifications."

If the wire cut was done by a roboticist, whose job it is to fix and modify borgs, it could be argued that they were, in fact, authorized personnel, and a borg would not be obligated to report this.

[Guest]

Just as a note, law four states, "Do not allow unauthorized personnel to tamper with your equipment," which I think is slightly open to interpretation, and doesn't strictly mean, "Don't allow modifications without reason" or "don't allow unauthorized [by heads] modifications."

If the wire cut was done by a roboticist, whose job it is to fix and modify borgs, it could be argued that they were, in fact, authorized personnel, and a borg would not be obligated to report this.

 

Good point Lessick. I'm not sure who actually did the changes. I talked to my staff about it but nobody said anything.

[Guest]

I had only let a roboticist crack me open, the first time to get another cell, the second one for a module change.My wire was cut on my second visit.It wasn't cut by an assistant, it was cut by someone with the profession which specifically deals with robots.If you suspected the AI was rogue, why did you blow up the two cyborgs free from the AI's control, and leave the one slaved to it alive?The comms were not down at the time of my detonation because people started asking who blew the borgs over the comms seconds after it happened.The syndicate had yet to breach the station at the time, there were no reports of gunfire or hostiles in the station.Further more, I almost immediately flew over to the cyborg console after being blown, believing the kill squad somehow got in without triggering atmos alarms only to find you in front of the console.All your limbs looked like they were in the right position, you were walking despite the supposed loss of your leg and you certainly weren't bleeding.

There were no lives saved by your heroic decision to protect the station from its own cyborgs, but I did see a bunch of poor bastards get shot to bits or left to die in Vacuum with no medborg to drag them out.There was no heroism involved in this, only silence and the occasional audible throb of a murderboner.

[Guest]

You heard my response. Unless you have any screenshots, logs or testimony to bring forward I'm going to consider my part in this complaint to be over.

[Frances]

If you suspected the AI was rogue, why did you blow up the two cyborgs free from the AI's control, and leave the one slaved to it alive?

This is a point which I believe deserves to be addressed.

If I understand correctly, the main fear Lucy had here was that borgs could potentially be reactivated by a rogue AI once locked down. If this were the case, then blowing up unslaved borgs, and leaving the slaved borg active, made no sense. Could there be a miscommunication?

[Tenenza]

You were unable to contain your murderection, and did everything in your power to avoid communication, or a peaceful outcome of the situation.All in your silent quest to soothe your research hermit's bloodboner with glorious synthetic valid kill juice.

 

There was no heroism involved in this, only silence and the occasional audible throb of a murderboner.

 

I'm just going to make a quick side point here: I'm really questioning at this point what you're trying to state as your argument. Are you saying that Seven Ghosts wasn't able to handle the situation properly and failed to properly play as a head, which is a complaint of competence, or are you flat out accusing Seven Ghosts of willfully killing the borgs simply because they could and wanted to. Because these are very different complaints.

Also, language.

[Guest]

You're right, I'm not communicating effectively. I suspected but did not know for certain if the AI was rogue. I didn't want to engage the AI fully until I knew it was a threat, so I blew the borgs not under its control. Anything more would have been a direct attack against the AI who would have turned on me. It was a value judgement fueled by the confusion of knowing we were under attack but not knowing by whom exactly or where. There were many unknowns and I acted on what little knowledge and conjecture I had.

I still don't know who shocked the door that resulted in my maiming and near death. I might also add that I was in my office looking at the exosuit controls by request of the HoS Alex Noels, who was asking if the invading mechs were showing up on the monitors (they weren't). A one footed character can walk slowly and stand and the sprites for prosthetics show both feet even where there is one.

[Guest]

I think given the stir this caused so far and the echoes that it caused long after the round was over, I'll consider more strongly before blowing borgs again. Rather than acting on conjecture, it seems it would be best to make more effort to ascertain whether the AI is corrupted even if it would place myself, my team and my department at risk.

I've grown very attached to science and the people in it and did not consider that saving everyone's life is not always what's best for the story.

Edited to remove a defensive counterstatement

[Guest]

I've been thinking about this complaint for most the day honestly. I've re-examined my attitudes and reactions to being called out as well as my actions in this particular round. While I believe starfish hasn't been entirely civil, I've reacted by becoming defensive and tense, refusing to directly admit error and talking my way around the issue. This is unusual for me, in that I'm usually very quick to admit to my failure.

I never intended to try to be a hero. In fact, I think my actions were decidedly unheroic that round. While its not every crew member's place to be a hero (indeed, the crew could do with a good number less would-be-heroes) I could have done more that round than locking down at first sight of trouble. Instead of seeking information, evaluating and taking calculated risk, I forsook the rest of the station and turned Science into an isolationist, locked down fortress. This extended into ejecting and destroying anyone I viewed with suspicion.

While borgs are more expendable than crew, Science and by extension the RD has a responsibility to ascertain and /insure/ the functionality of the AI and robots. Instead I treated them as useless and outside my responsibility and in doing so probably placed more lives outside Science at risk than I saved. Not only this, but I clearly upset some players. I believe this even breaks IC for Lucy, who feels a kinship to borgs for being mostly synthetic herself.

I no longer stand fully by my decision. I think it was rash, fueled by the stress of the situation, and if I had been thinking straight I would have seen the inconsistencies of my own logic in not confirming the AI as a threat and neither fixing it nor acting against it fully. I think lethal force should always be regarded carefully, because as it does in real life, its consequences have echoes beyond the incident.

I apologize for my conduct and will rectify the situation in several ways

1. More consideration for synthetic characters, not blowing borgs unless they are a /confirmed/ (not suspected) threat

2. Extending my consideration for other's lives beyond Science. I consider Medical to be allies and when I knew for a fact they were under attack, I let them die and hid instead of making any attempt to save the wounded or living.

3. Even when I feel attacked or that the individual is being rude, I'll attempt to address concerns with civility and consider my failures instead of turtling up behind a wall of turgid formality.

[EvilBrage]

2. Extending my consideration for other's lives beyond Science. I consider Medical to be allies and when I knew for a fact they were under attack, I let them die and hid instead of making any attempt to save the wounded or living.

The station isn't cut up into separate nations; you act like security and cargo could be "the enemy" if you do naught but decide it so. Judging from the extended round the other night, I can't say that I'm confident that you've actually taken the above to heart.

A quick recap for those of you who weren't there: The geneticist decided to imbue herself with powers and run around as a hulk and smash walls down. Nothing new there. When she was arrested, however, many individuals jumped to her defense, Lucy Sparks among them. My own character (Casval Bederstadt) was convinced into allowing the geneticist (Katelynn Mcmullen) to stay in the permabrig without restraints either until her powers could be reversed, or the crew transfer shuttle arrived. Apparently, however, Lucy Sparks decided to break the exterior prison windows and aid the geneticist in escaping to the research outpost. Bear in mind that this all happened during an extended round - there were no antagonists. After several threats of mass murder over the radio by McMullen, Bederstadt gets the small security team suited up and begins a manhunt. When the research outpost was searched, Lucy Sparks exited a small room that was found to be housing Katelynn; she was arrested and they were bringing her back to the main station, but Lucy decided to sabotage the door and the shuttle. When questioned, she stated she would not be handing over Katelynn as "the next stage of human evolution," to which Casval responds by accusing the two of them of mutiny and threatening to execute Katelynn if she did not return on the shuttle. Lucy decided to call Casval's bluff, which prompted him to execute Katelynn out of rage and spite (and being the acting captain, he could legally authorize the execution.) They abandoned her body and went back for the shuttle that Lucy had since brought back. Without a word, she then chucks an explosive grenade at Casval's team. He picks it up and tries to throw it back, but since his player clicked on the shuttle like a moron without hitting the throw button, he ended up just standing there. One of the officers is killed shortly after the explosion, and Casval barely survives for the time being along with a third officer who was injured, but not critically so. Before Lucy could escape, she was quickly dispatched by the remaining two members of the team, but Casval died shortly after.

My point is this: It would've been a great round if they were antagonists, but they weren't. From my point of view, Lucy Sparks essentially caused mayhem and murdered two individuals, provoked only by the incarceration of someone who would have been inspected at Central Command; that's not an action becoming of a player, let alone a whitelisted one. Bear in mind that she did not know that Katelynn was executed when she threw the explosive grenade at the three, and that even so, there's really no excuse for taking things to such an extreme level without intense personal provocation which was non-existent in this case.

[LetzShake]

Up until the grenade most of that just sounds like the natural course of roleplay. Extended doesn't mean do nothing.

The grenade... well, that's a bit much. But even then is a bit understandable if she was defending someone's life, or avenging someone's life, I think.

Where's the complaint thread for you executing someone out of spite?

[Guest]

Everything took place in accordance with the developing narrative from several parties, including your own. Execution of unarmed, cuffed prisoners in steady custody of two officers isn't exactly SOP. Charging towards an active grenade to throw it back is a risky move, one that backfired on both of us, which I think is a legitimate outcome. I had expected you to flee to the previous room and be unable to fix the console I suspected you of attempting to repair.

This wasn't just Lucy acting out alone. You mentioned that the geneticist in question received a lot of support. I acted with the aid of my team and their urging, and rescued her and kept her without any violence.

[EvilBrage]

So if something seems fun, anyone can act out and start blowing people up, antag or not? Supporting someone and caring for them is one thing - manufacturing explosives and throwing them at a security team and the acting captain is quite another. If everyone could play an edgy psycho killer with a shady backstory, they would, but the server as a whole is neither fun nor remotely approaching realism with a staff like that.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

So if something seems fun, anyone can act out and start blowing people up, antag or not? Supporting someone and caring for them is one thing - manufacturing explosives and throwing them at a security team and the acting captain is quite another. If everyone could play an edgy psycho killer with a shady backstory, they would, but the server as a whole is neither fun nor remotely approaching realism with a staff like that.

 

I have to agree. The Science department has too many cold blooded killers, and they act like a hive mind.

[Susan]

There is a rule that states there should be no antagonistic actions as a non-antag. This does not cover small to medium crimes such as felony possession or distribution of narcotics but it does cover high crimes that do include basically everything that Lucy Sparks did in that scenario.

Whether or not there was roleplay is irrelevant. Whether or not it was built up to is irrelevant. There is a line that should not be crossed. Don't cross it.

[Guest]

If everyone could play an edgy psycho killer with a shady backstory

 

"Lucy Sparks entire life had lead up to this moment. All she ever felt was cold blooded hatred. She was ready to die in this moment. Casval stood no chance! Today she would finally explode his body for the murder of her parents all those years ago on the mining colony on mars that drove her to become a revolutionary sadistic murderer agent"

Edited November 4, 2014 by Guest