Alternatives to Brigging and Fines

[Jboy2000000]

So, as it stands, theres two ways Security handles people who make trouble, brigging, which is boring 90% of the time, or arbitrary fines that security never seems to use anyway. So, I thought we could make it so there could be some alternatives to those two things.

Labor: Basically, add a shuttle to where the evac pod that security has (had?) that will take people to the asteroid. From there, prisoners can mine to work off their sentences. Crimes and ores would be given a point value, and when a prisoner reaches the point value for their crime, they're released. Borrow some code from TG, with their mining ore redeemer, and you could probably gut the items it usually gives, and put in an ID that just lets them get back to the station. Apparently TG already has labor camp code. But, yeah, could be cool. Beats being alone in a tiny cell, or slightly bigger cell.

Community Service: Prisoners are given temp ID's to use for this, they are either used to work in the kitchen, or as a sanitation engineer. They'll work for the normal time that their crime would carry as a brig sentence.

Thats all I could think of, but if anyone else has anything to add, feel free. These are just so prisoners have some alternatives, since the communal brig wasn't as big as a change as people thought it would be in terms of giving those poor criminal scumbags something to do while brigged.

[DeezyJ]

I was thinking about it a lot as well, and i came to one very interesting question

"Who will control control their atonement?"

If a person made a minor infraction and is a good/willing to be good role-player- maybe

What about obvious griefers/newbies and just general antags...?

Idea is great and i vouch for it but

There's a lot of underwater rocks

[Frances]

I'm afraid some of these simply wouldn't work right off the bat.

Community service takes a while to set up. If you're serving a 5-minute sentence, it'll be over by the time security sets you up with a temp ID and moves you to the kitchen. If you're serving a long sentence, you probably did some pretty bad stuff in which case security would be wary to leave you unsupervised out of a brig cell.

If you really want to give prisoners more stuff to do, I think the communal brig should be the start of it. It's already there, and it's convenient of access.

[Susan]

No.

Security does not have the authority to force people into basically indentured servitude. All they have authority to do is hold people until the actual police take custody.

Stop breaking the law, don't get arrested??????

It's punishment. It's not supposed to be fun.

[Frances]

that's some intensive roleplay then

[Filthyfrankster]

heavy rp amiright

Don't the crime if you can't handle the time

I mean pulling a stealth revolver and blamming someones head, leading security on a man-hunt or being an overall threat to the station would probably get you thrown into the slammer under intense watch

Letting someone go on a community service thing un-supervised usually leads to them escaping/having the chance to fuck off

Then you have the pain staking time for security to go, ask the HoP (If there ever is one) or whatever command staff is available to make a community service level ID for said criminal.

By that time they're sentence is usually up.

[Conservatron]

you can tracking implant the work group

then if prisoners want to run off they can, but if sec is on their game they can find the person.

But it gives prisoners the ability to like, orchestrate escapes. If you only give them enough air for temporary operations it reduces the flight risk but if they have someone ready to resupply air and aid a jail break power to them

[jackfractal]

The biggest issue, like Frances says, is processing time. Everyone knows it can take several orders of magnitude more time to get charged with a crime then you should serve for it. Adding in any complexity to that process is going to annoy everyone involved. I like the idea of community service or a mining camp kind of deal, but unless it were really easy then it won't be done.

I've played on servers where there is the mining prison and it's almost never used, and when it is, someone usually griefs it by digging out into space.

And Sue's right, if the station were in deeeeeep space, where NT is the only law for weeks of travel time in every direction, it would make more sense, but the Aurora is canonically within legal jurisdiction of Biesel, who are an actual government with laws and stuff. We have defanged NT to a degree where having them be 'da law' just doesn't work anymore.

[canon35]

Yeah, I'm against it. The brig is meant to be a punishment, not a happy-dandy-land. Plus, this shit would real hard to regulate and everytime I see a prison mine used it ends horribly.

[Zundy]

"Do you want to be an antag? Remember that if you mess up everyone will be pissed off with you and you'll be brigged for the rest of the round and even if you carry out your objective successfully you will probably still piss other players off."

"...nah."

Jokes aside, I don't see why giving people more opportunities for roleplay (in a good way, we're talking about giving sec and others something to do as well as failed antags something to do) is a bad thing.

Don't forget that NT actually runs this joint (Biesel) pending the outcome of the great spy contest so NT law is Biesel law.

[Susan]

Because.

This is a heavy roleplay server. It has to make sense.

And it doesn't run Biesel yet, does it? So no. NT law is not Biesel law.

[Nightmare]

So its not suppose to be fun, so just so I understand; if you do an IC crime you should be punished OOCLY by sitting and being forgotten in a cell with nothing to do?

[Lady_of_Ravens]

So its not suppose to be fun, so just so I understand; if you do an IC crime you should be punished OOCLY by sitting and being forgotten in a cell with nothing to do?

 

Brig times are inherited from a low-RP server and are intended as punishment for players, near as I can tell. Spending 5-15 minutes in a cell isn't an IC punishment for any character who doesn't suffer from severe ADHD.

[Xelnagahunter]

So its not suppose to be fun, so just so I understand; if you do an IC crime you should be punished OOCLY by sitting and being forgotten in a cell with nothing to do?

 

Brig times are inherited from a low-RP server and are intended as punishment for players, near as I can tell. Spending 5-15 minutes in a cell isn't an IC punishment for any character who doesn't suffer from severe ADHD.

 

But that's the thing, we don't need to be punishing players for generating RP for security. I mean. Lets play a few rounds where NOTHING goes wrong, still wanna play sec and aimlessly wander the halls? Hell I tried to sell drugs to a sec officer once just to give him something to do.

Besides, a real work shift won't be 2 hours, so I'm sure the times are designed to reflect a longer work day in which a punishment actually lasts hours. Sadly we RP in real-ish time. I don't mind brig times, so long as I'm not forgotten.

[Zundy]

What are the actual laws on Biesel anyway? As far as I can tell we have no lore on this so why not say mandatory hard labor is a punishment under those laws.

Only RP can come from this. You can still perma chucklefucks if you so wish BUT you could also give others something to do in the form of labor.

[Guest]

So its not suppose to be fun, so just so I understand; if you do an IC crime you should be punished OOCLY by sitting and being forgotten in a cell with nothing to do?

 

I don't understand why this post has two likes.

Are you saying that the game is less fun when security does their job and arrests people for being criminals?

[Nightmare]

No im asking if trying to make more to be arrested sitting in a 2x3 box, and being forgetten about more enjoyable oocly is a bad thing.

[Dreamix]

So its not suppose to be fun, so just so I understand; if you do an IC crime you should be punished OOCLY by sitting and being forgotten in a cell with nothing to do?

I don't understand why this post has two likes.

Are you saying that the game is less fun when security does their job and arrests people for being criminals?

I think they are saying that being thrown into a cell for 30-ish minutes, with nothing fun to do, is well, not fun. Really, sometimes security acts like it's their hated, IRL job, a really shitty one, "oh god, i need to brig that fucking retard, again, i will kill myself if that continues, god i hate this".

edit: From the OOC stand-point, of course, it's not really fun or interesting. Sure, you can try to mindlessly talk about the weather, or gossip, but it's just not that. From IC view-point, I believe that 15 minute sentence is not the only punishment a character receives after, for example, stealing something. I wish people would roleplay them being screened /interviewed /questioned /interrogated off-work by not-DO's, more. /edit

On topic:

Minor crimes are okay, I guess. Unless you repeatedly do it, to the point of me (or others) thinking that your character probably should be fired, by now. Just remember, that not only DO's can fire your character, you can fire your own character, too.

[Guest]

No im asking if trying to make more to be arrested sitting in a 2x3 box, and being forgetten about more enjoyable oocly is a bad thing.

 

Except this is how it goes on any station, ship, or otherwise. Someone does something stupid, the security force catches them and throws them into the brig for what they did. That person waits until their brig sentence is up, and then they get released.

You have every right to go do something else while waiting for your time to finish for committing felonies.

[Nightmare]

Nah, I'd rather not go do something else. Instead, I like the idea of being able to do something else in game that's enjoyable. I'm not down with people getting punished OOCly just for IC actions, especially if its not griefy or whatever. For more minor situations of course, not like murder or whatever

[Frances]

Punishments shouldn't "seem enjoyable" ICly. Which might be part of why improving brigging is difficult from an OOC perspective (I personally like to think the sentences are fine as they are, but I usually multitask when brigged.)

There's compromises we have to make for the sake of gameplay, though. The suspension of disbelief around five/ten-minute brig sentences is a necessary one, because day-brigging (followed by your character being fired) would cut short the plans of most antags.

Let's face it, a good 95% of people who end up in the brig would instantly lose their job if we had to be realistic about this.

[Killerhurtz]

How about 'danger volunteering'?

Brigged people would be given the offer to do a dangerous task relevant to their expertise (brigged securitycould be offered to deal with capturing advanced threats under supervision, engineers be offered to deal with a breach/blob, so on so on) instead of risking valuable crew on it? And if they succeed, their brig time is greatly reduced, if not eliminated.

[Zundy]

So why not have the forced labor or "danger volunteering" as Killer says? Forced labor isn't fun IRL, that's why it's a punishment. There should be IC consequences of IC actions but the OOC act of stopping the game for ten minutes shouldn't be one of them.

Even the argument of perma-brigging griefers doesn't work because they should be banned for that, not brigged so they can go SSD and log back in with a different account ad nauseum.

Hell, I'd even be for getting a "Prison Ship" in which sec can send characters who have commited major crimes to be dealt with by the Biesel authorities which just logs the player out a la cryo pods and allows them to come back in as a different character for when players have dun goofed as antags so they don't just sit in the brig for the round.

Again, there shouldn't be an OOC punishment for IC actions which have been forced by the game mode (being an antag means you have to commit crimes or ruin the round).

[Frances]

How about 'danger volunteering'?

Brigged people would be given the offer to do a dangerous task relevant to their expertise (brigged securitycould be offered to deal with capturing advanced threats under supervision, engineers be offered to deal with a breach/blob, so on so on) instead of risking valuable crew on it? And if they succeed, their brig time is greatly reduced, if not eliminated.

What are the odds of these situations arising? And again, consider the situations where people get brigged for long periods of time. If a person gets brigged for 20-30 minutes, it's usually for a reason that gives you incentive not to trust them with important tasks.

Anyway, I'd argue that this is already enabled, to a degree. I've seen wardens/heads release arrested or demoted sec officers (when they weren't so bad) to let them help catch dangerous antags.

[Killerhurtz]

So I made this... Thoughts?