11/22/15 - Complaint: Kazkin

[Hackie]

BYOND Key: Hackie Mhan

Player Byond Key: Kazkin

Staff involved: Tablespoon

Reason for complaint:

It was an autotraitor round, I spawned in as a bald assistant trator. Minimalist records, bare minimum flavor text, perfect for being anonymous a blank slate to do what I wish that round. It had hit the third hour mark, the clock's ticking and if someone rocks the boat we're getting a C-T. I spawn in a revolver and energy sword and later find an Energy pistol. I stash it into a disposal chute, deactivate the pump. A perfect spot for hiding gear, and a good safety net incase Security tries to brig me for being bald. I begin moving around, thinking and I finally have an idea. I'll roleplay as a sort of Bladerunner-esque character. I'll take down IPC's, extract their Positronic cores and try to call the shuttle, move them off station. A great conflict, some good RP, I think it's a fantastic idea. I convince Canon (Azeazikal Karnakai) to assist me as a sort of surgeon to extract the Positronic Brain. I begin attempting to bait Hypatia (Inquisitor John) into the Robotics lab, and she isn't biting. I don't have assistance but it's just her and Kazkin (I don't remember the character's name). Should be a piece of cake, right? I pull out my Energy pistol, and fire enough round to blow off Hypatia's leg. I've got a gun, and a good four tiles of distance from the pair. I begin typing to tell Kazkin to back off, and not to scream and I won't shoot her. Midway through she charges, and flashes me fully aware of my lethal capability and strips me naked on the spot. She then moves me to a maintenance closet, shuts the door and calls for Security to respond. Karnakai helps me out, as he's my homie as of the moment and lets me out. I move to my pile of clothes, put on the gear and stalk Kazkin. I find she's given the backpack full of my hot guns to Ash Callahan (FridayGus). I run over, push him down and grab the backpack and immediately bolt. I don't need to perpetuate conflict any further. However, Kazkin goes in pursuit, flash in hand. I won't make the same mistake again. I pull out my revolver and begin blowing caps in his leg until he stops coming. I shot at least four rounds before she quit following me, which I believe is the point she collapsed. I run to the right of the hallway, on my way to meet Karnakai so we can hunker up, however Ash Callahan is in pursuit with a taser. I fire two rounds to the head, instantly decapitating him and keep moving forward. Another player, a new one who was spoken to by Tablespoon had killed me with a drill and I ghosted at that point.

Summary:

Kazkin charged at me with a flash twice, while I was equipped with lethals. And had attempted to detain me, resulting in multiple unnecessary deaths. Thus crushing any antagonist plans thereafter.

Approximate Date/Time: (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada) 7:00 - 8:30 PM.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Guest

[Garnascus]

Four tiles away and you where armed with lethal AND you had given a warning to back off and she still rushed you? This seems way more than a little powergamey to me. Lets make sure that kaz want spoken too of course but from what you said it looks like spoon only spoke to one who killed you in the end.

If he was not spoken too ill see how about getting him to post his side of things here and check some server logs.

[canon35]

Yeah, this seems pretty power-gamey to me. Also. I was considering telling you to GTFO, but I realized if I was in your shoes, that would be the last thing I would want to happen. You had an idea that I've never really seen done before on this server well.

[Kazkin]

First time I flashed him he was within 1 tile of my character and didn't have sunglasses on, his complaint there is invalid as he pulled a gun within arms reach of a (technically) off-duty security personal who had a flash. After disarming him and taking his gear I left to turn in his guns to the actual security.

Then the guy rushes three security guards and me completely unarmed to take his backpack back after I robusted him for damn near randomly shooting Hypatia's foot off for saying no to coming with him. I was 2 tiles from him before he opened fire after stealing his guns back, I was hoping to catch him before he could kill us because at the time he was playing a bald assistant that literal shot Hypatia for refusing to come with him once. I assumed grey tide and my character is security trained. From a roleplay standpoint a madman shot her friends foot off and was disabled then rushed four armed and trained security guards with no weapon.

Why would I bother to let him get away or take him seriously ic if A) I'm a security guard and he is close to me while I'm armed and B) He is obviously insane and will hurt people, meaning he would open fire on Keyli and her friends Ash and Hypatia regardless of what happens. Antag or not his escalation was far to fast so he came off as murder boning and/or greytide.

Summary: He got robusted after escalating far to fast, tried to rambo three SEC officers and an off-duty SEC officer (me) and got killed for his efforts.

[Alberyk]

Besides flashing someone that had a lethal weapon, which could get your character hurt, I just think that stripping someone naked on spot is also really unrealistic, not to say powergamey. Besides, having sec training is not an excuse to act like an officer or don't call for security help.If you don't take armed people seriously, if they are insane or not, you will get killed which is what happened at the round.Also, he was an antag, by the rules, he was free to use any tool he could to stop sec, like pushing them.

Also, people were yelling murderbone on deadchat, while they were the ones trying to fight a guy armed with a revolver with a taser or a flash. I don't really know what people expect when they try to fight people that only have lethals,that they try to push them or use the weapons they have? If try to punch a guy with gun, I am pretty sure he is going to use the only weapon he has.

[Kazkin]

Kind of a moot point when I highlight the fact the first time he opened fire he was literally right next to me while my flash was in my pocket close at hand.

[Alberyk]

What about the second time which ended with people being killed?

[Kazkin]

He bum rushed three (technically four) armed security guards that had weapons out and in there hands. If anyone is guilty of rambo-ing its him, I tried to disable him because icly he was obviously insane and at the time both ic and ooc I thought he was going to start shooting us on the spot.

Also, he was directly next to me then moved two tiles from me when he stole the guns off the armed security guards, who had there own guns out, I figured I could disable him before it got worse. The only reason I didn't disable him the moment he walked next to me and tried to disarm Ash is because I wasn't expecting it as he ran in and wordlessly started disarming.

[Hackie]

Time to whip out some pictures.

Alright, allow me to explain this to you. I responded to that situation because I had the element of surprise. You can't play dirty and expect a trained, hyped up operative to not do the same. I ran in, grabbed my gear and tried to get out. You were directly in their line of fire, if I wanted to grab that bag that was my best chance. It wasn't a spur of a moment decision, it was calculated and well thought out. I can grab my bag from Ash Callahan.

 

You and the other officer were blocking the doorway, meaning hey, this is a safe zone. As far as I know, none of them have lethals. What did you expect me to do, to walk in and smile and say, 'Hey you guys can I have all my guns back?'. You have to give something for a return, and so far you've shown me that you weren't interested at all in cooperating with me, why should I give you a second chance, at that point in time? Regardless, I'm not going to kill you, or try at all. It wouldn't be necessary unless you tried chasing me, which you did. At this point, you had brought the conflict, the items of interest to Security, to a hotspot with bad geography. So I retreated, it was entirely your fault you got gunned down.

 

At this point I wasn't even trying to escalate conflict, I was attempting to flee from a crazy Tajara roboticist with a flash. I had fired an entire laser magazine into you, and you kept chasing me. I had to fire four rounds in addition. This was you trying to be the hero plain out simple. Ash, had tried to follow me later, with a taser in hand, which I responded with a pair of caps to the skull.

Let's circle back to the first incident, since that's the real centerpoint of the complaint, it was the action that spoiled the round.

 

 

So, my attempts to lure my prey (Hypatia) into a trap has failed. Well, shit. I go in for the forceful approach, I've made it clear by now I'm not some run-of-the-mill baldie griffer. I used me's, I RP'd and I tried going the path of least resistance instead of just plain out frying Hypatia. I fire at her leg 'till it blows, off, gun ready to be fired off into this bystander as I try to secure my target. I begin typing to provide a warning an- bam! A flash, followed by being stripped naked and shoved into maintenance. Regardless of you being a Security Officer off-duty. It's not really that fun for anyone. I hadn't killed her even, just went for the leg.

Either to protect your friend, or just out of wanting to be a plain out hero, you purposefully escalated conflict and caused multiple unnecessary deaths indirectly. You prevented me from doing some genuinely fun RP, or at least attempting to.

[Kazkin]

A lot of effort with drawings but also a lot of bullshit, I was alot closer both times and in far different spots then what you are putting drawing. We were further inside medical below the right corner of the front desk with ash on the other side. Equally in the halls you were directly next to me within easy disarm range and I was south of Hypatia. Check the logs if you disagree cause they will show you are wrong. Lastly, you "calculated" a plan on rushing effectively four armed security guards with guns out and one of them (me) reacted fast enough to try and stop you. Though, just saying, I didn't get killed by you shooting me.

My injuries weren't even bad enough to have me bleed out, died to Mal-practise from a new doctor though so least I technically died somehow. Consider it collateral damage.

It's also interesting how you claimed to have "rp'd" it and shown you weren't greytide by walking up to someone and saying:

"Hey, come with me to robotics."

"No"

*pulls gun and opens fire*

Seems right reasonable escalation of force to me. Great rp and I can see how you had no other choice so resorting to gun fire just outside medical was reasonable. Though me stripping you down to your skivvies was more a sake of expedience then anything else. I had to remove the backpack that had guns in it so I removed everything to save time hunting around for the backpack slot as Hypatia had a limb blown off and needed medical attention. I threw you into maintenance for security to pick you up since I didn't have cuffs.

Also, if I'm reading the OP correctly you convinced tge non-antag Karnaikai to remove an unwilling players brain and effectively remove them from the round as nothing more then a transported (probably swearing) posi-brain.

You are also ignoring the fact that your "calculated plan" was RUSHING THREE ON DUTY SECURITY OFFICERS WITH GUNS OUT AND ONE OFF-DUTY SECURITY OFFICER CARRYING LETHAL GUNS (that were yours) AND A FLASH. I did all caps and used everything so it couldn't be ignored further seeing as you definitely will have seen this fact by now.

[canon35]

The whole plan was to try and incapacitate Hypatia to remove the brain. Just saying. It wound up escalating into violence.

[Hackie]

I'm feeling very tired, and something happened irl that needs to be attended, expect a reply in one to two days.

[Kazkin]

The whole plan was to try and incapacitate Hypatia to remove the brain. Just saying. It wound up escalating into violence.

 

Good plan but it was literally "Hey, come with me" "No" then violence. Ask Hypatia, unless there was PDA messages going on before hand that is all I was and still currently am aware of.

[canon35]

The whole plan was to try and incapacitate Hypatia to remove the brain. Just saying. It wound up escalating into violence.

 

Good plan but it was literally "Hey, come with me" "No" then violence. Ask Hypatia, unless there was PDA messages going on before hand that is all I was and still currently am aware of.

 

I was trying to get to make her think Hackie wanted to know what it's like to be an IPC. Sadly, I don't think he caught on quick.

[Kazkin]

The whole plan was to try and incapacitate Hypatia to remove the brain. Just saying. It wound up escalating into violence.

 

Good plan but it was literally "Hey, come with me" "No" then violence. Ask Hypatia, unless there was PDA messages going on before hand that is all I was and still currently am aware of.

 

I was trying to get to make her think Hackie wanted to know what it's like to be an IPC. Sadly, I don't think he caught on quick.

 

The intent doesn't really matter when the shooting started nearly instantly.

[Hackie]

Sorry about the late reply, I've been feeling pretty bad with some IRL sickness.

 

Good plan but it was literally "Hey, come with me" "No" then violence. Ask Hypatia, unless there was PDA messages going on before hand that is all I was and still currently am aware of.

 

I caught on quick, we were trying to convince her to stay there. Welp, it failed, I had a goal and rather than abandoning it I moved forward. While certainly abrupt the escalation was necessary at that point if I had wanted to continue with my plan.

I'm not particularly fond of you trying to shift the focus away from the center of the complaint. Regardless of your Character being a Security Officer, Engineer and Roboticist, it doesn't particularly rub me the right way that you're implementing that training or skill into your non-security shifts. I understand, yeah some of us want to play multiple roles with the same character, but implementing that training is pretty bad.

Let's cut to the main piece. You flashed an antagonist, okay not too terrible. I can still recover from that and scrounge up something interesting. But you had insisted on A. Stripping me of my weapons B. Locking me into Maintenance. Regardless of any past impression you might have had of my character, that is blatant hamstringing. If your character is Security off-duty, it does not justify smashing antags because they hurt your friend.

[Kazkin]

Sorry about the late reply, I've been feeling pretty bad with some IRL sickness.

 

Good plan but it was literally "Hey, come with me" "No" then violence. Ask Hypatia, unless there was PDA messages going on before hand that is all I was and still currently am aware of.

 

I caught on quick, we were trying to convince her to stay there. Welp, it failed, I had a goal and rather than abandoning it I moved forward. While certainly abrupt the escalation was necessary at that point if I had wanted to continue with my plan.

I'm not particularly fond of you trying to shift the focus away from the center of the complaint. Regardless of your Character being a Security Officer, Engineer and Roboticist, it doesn't particularly rub me the right way that you're implementing that training or skill into your non-security shifts. I understand, yeah some of us want to play multiple roles with the same character, but implementing that training is pretty bad.

Let's cut to the main piece. You flashed an antagonist, okay not too terrible. I can still recover from that and scrounge up something interesting. But you had insisted on A. Stripping me of my weapons B. Locking me into Maintenance. Regardless of any past impression you might have had of my character, that is blatant hamstringing. If your character is Security off-duty, it does not justify smashing antags because they hurt your friend.

 

I had no cuffs and had to work fast before my flash blew out. If I had been security it would have been brigging but I wasn't so I made do with what I had. I'll ignore you complaining about me shifting focus by....well shifting focus and go to the brunt of the matter. You fucked up as an antag and lodged a complaint against the person that started it by exploiting your mistake. You opened fire when within arms reach of someone not only trained to deal with that type of situation but who had the items to easily handle it. What happened after was you, oddly enough for this complaint, going full rambo and having your round ruined because people came down hard on you.

Get over it.

[Kazkin]

Also, I'm going to request Inquisitor John to give his side of the story since he was clearly involved. Possibly the guy who plays Ash Callahan as well since he was on the scene when you rushed and disarmed him, he can verify that your map is a clear lie if he remembers the incident.

[Garnascus]

At this point its a bit of he said she said.... But ill say this after thinking about it. Even if you where right next to Jackie, flashing him while he had his weapon drawn is.....questionable. I also don't know how I feel about you ignoring any sort of fear RP simply because your character is an officer sometimes. Even aurora security officers don't get guns drawn on them everyday and you also weren't playing as security.

[Shadow]

InquisitorJohn is inactive for a good while by now.

Since this doesn't lead anywhere I'll mark this as inactive, it will be reopened in case John comes back.