Frances - Moderator Application

[hivefleetchicken]

A gleaming +1 from me.

Frances has it all - humor, intelligence, max typing speeds, looks , and above all, an excellent reasoning skill.

Frances is an extremely pleasant staff member and has a really good skill at solving things diplomatically.

I literally can't think of a reason they're unfit for a moderator position besides people getting on them for assumptions about things, which is still fair, even if I don't agree with it.

[Dea Tacita]

I'm just going to bring this up. Since no-one else has. (tldr -1)

Ffrances used to be really awesome, astute, to a point charming and very perceptive. However, while she continues to be so on the forums, Frances doesn't really act like this on the server, and hasn't for quite some time. She's gained quite a few notes, the vast majority of which being a mix of meta-communication and just....really stupid shit.

For instance, there's been at-least one instance of Frances joining with another individual as chemists, not speaking to anyone, producing massive amounts of space-drugs while ignoring all requests for actual medical drugs that were needed. And then ODing in the bar, vomiting everywhere while running from security. From what I remember of this situation (Which was right before I retired I think) when questioned about how this behavior was excusable, she essentially went "I'm creating interesting RP!" and argued with the staff involved for a significant length about how she was making the server a better RP environment...by being a bald, metabuddying, drug dealing chemist. I dunno about how you guys feel about it, but I don't feel like this is excusable behavior, especially for someone who wants to moderate the server.

[Frances]

I'm just going to bring this up. Since no-one else has. (tldr -1)

Ffrances used to be really awesome, astute, to a point charming and very perceptive. However, while she continues to be so on the forums, Frances doesn't really act like this on the server, and hasn't for quite some time. She's gained quite a few notes, the vast majority of which being a mix of meta-communication and just....really stupid shit.

For instance, there's been at-least one instance of Frances joining with another individual as chemists, not speaking to anyone, producing massive amounts of space-drugs while ignoring all requests for actual medical drugs that were needed. And then ODing in the bar, vomiting everywhere while running from security. From what I remember of this situation (Which was right before I retired I think) when questioned about how this behavior was excusable, she essentially went "I'm creating interesting RP!" and argued with the staff involved for a significant length about how she was making the server a better RP environment...by being a bald, metabuddying, drug dealing chemist. I dunno about how you guys feel about it, but I don't feel like this is excusable behavior, especially for someone who wants to moderate the server.

I'm afraid some of this is a vast exaggeration

The event you're describing has essentially been removed from context, and is missing some essential details. While yes, it was an instance of chucklefucking with a friend, I feel like there are some facts that need consideration here:

-We didn't remain absolutely silent as you say, but rather communicated people, although we might've sounded closer to Badger and Skinny Pete from Breaking Bad than we did to normal scientists

-It was low-pop extended, which meant there was little need for chemistry, but I remember making a point to fill any chemistry requests so our cover as drug suppliers wasn't blown, so the accusation we ignored all requests isn't true

-We spent a while trying to find distributors for our drugs. A Tajaran agreed to help us, then sold us out, leading to our arrest in the bar. At this point, I encouraged my colleague to "dispose of the evidence" by simultaneously consuming every pill we had produced, while myself doing the same, which is how we met our untimely demise. This was the most extreme action I think I've ever taken during extended, and I recognize it was wrong, though I believe I wrote myself into a corner, as having my chemist die from his own stupidity through a hilarious overdose seemed like a funnier and easier resolution to the conflict we created than forcing security to put us in cells and deal with us for the next two hours it would take for the round to transfer out.

-Most of the long argument which I had with Viking didn't have to do with our specific actions - he believed that individuals should never self-antag, act like criminals, or intentionally break corporate regs during extended.

-It's not like I'm literally unable to stop myself from acting like a mongoloid whenever I play on the server. I thought it was a fun thing to do, I knew it skirted with the rules (for god's sake I wrote those rules), and I stopped when an admin provided me with a genuinely decent reason why I should stop (which I already talked about before). This event was more than six months ago and isn't representative of my current contribution to the game, as I have started to play 100% straight, law-abiding goody two-shoes characters exclusively once again. I don't really blame you for still having those misconceptions, though, since you just came back to the server.

I hope this is enough to provide some context. Tl;dr, I actually think that this is probably the worst thing I've done on the server, rules-wise, and it stemmed from what was essentially good intentions turned wrong by circumstances. It was a while ago, and I stopped creating risque situations since then because it makes people salty.

Lastly, the accusation of metacommunication is false, unless you consider frequently playing with somebody you know OOCly to be metacommunication alone, because a lot of people do that

---

---

The rule is neither changed; nor is that complaint closed. The post was also a debate on whether that IR could be considered IC, rather than the previous IR post informing us of the fact that the cause of the IR was OOC.

Two different situations.

I thought these were the exact same situations, though? I had information I thought was relevant to the IR, and I figured the best place to post it was on the IR where everyone could see it, not in a single person's inbox where the person can easily ignore, miss it, or just take three weeks to process it because they're away. I also don't think there's been given a good reason why people can't make OOC posts on IRs as long as they're relevant, because posts of people trying to rabidly defend their characters could be moderated, and immersion isn't a concern either as I've seen staff make OOC posts on the forum.

Anyway, the precedent set by Doomberg essentially said "this kind of rule is badly formulated and can be altered". I don't know why it hasn't been changed yet, but I thought this could be posted without having to face technicalities such as "the rule is still standing because no one bothered to change it", although you also seem to be believing my latest post is of a wholly different nature - something I'd argue it is not.

[Jakers457]

This is mainly because I've yet to have any positive experiences interacting with you, but the idea of you on the staffing team only fills me with skepticism. As a politician, you'd be great with your silver tongue and precision in bringing up what people have said in the past to contradict them. But this shouldn't be treated as such, personally I look for a moderator I can trust.

To treat this as it were politics, what would you say to give me some faith in your practice.

[Frances]

This is mainly because I've yet to have any positive experiences interacting with you, but the idea of you on the staffing team only fills me with skepticism. As a politician, you'd be great with your silver tongue and precision in bringing up what people have said in the past to contradict them. But this shouldn't be treated as such, personally I look for a moderator I can trust.

To treat this as it were politics, what would you say to give me some faith in your practice.

I don't think I really try to contradict people to refute their arguments - that'd be an incomplete and frustrating resolution to a problem at best, and sophistry at worst

I try to refute arguments directly, when I can. To use my post above as an example, I had information to share that Dea omitted from her comment. I don't think she posted with malicious intent, and it's really understandable that she'd overlook or forget some of the facts after such a long time, especially considering it was just one of many cases she dealt with as an admin, while it's something that touches me directly and thus something I remember better. And technically she's right about the whole thing, I'm not even denying that haha. The explosive resolution to our chemist antics was far from an ideal one, and I'd change a lot of things about it if I could - I just don't think the account that was given is representative of what truly happened, and it paints a particularly bad picture of the intents behind these events.

Anyway! To answer your question...

I spoke a bit of my intents as a mod applicant in the OP to this thread, though I don't mind expanding on them again. What I want, and the real reason why I enjoy doing this, is to help people. I want Aurora to be a server where people can have fun, where they can engage in the genuine interactions that make tabletop among a group of friends enjoyable: sometimes funny, sometimes cool, sometimes epic, but always surrounded by a sense that you're among friends and that everyone is there to have a good time.

I want Aurora to be a server where people shouldn't have to be afraid of the staff or the players - where when people make a honest mistake they can expect to be met with friendly discussion about what went wrong, rather than a punishment and some angry curses. I think this requires a lot of effort both from the players and the staff (some of the mods/admins are too aggressive and enforce the rules too mindlessly, while some of the players have a bad habit of getting OOCly-aggressive when things don't go their way), but I think the best way to bring change is to show example.

That's why what I always wanted was discussion. Friendly, reasonable, open discussion. When I get myself involved in issues, it's usually to give people a voice, or make them feel like they're not alone, especially when they're ignored by everyone else. If not, it's because I try to encourage someone to be friendlier than they are being (though this is more of a problem in-game and something I do in LOOC). I won't try to sell myself as a politician because politicians tend to lie a lot, but if you wanted me to sum up what my "desires" were I'd say that those are it. And I believe they're objectives which are 100% compatible with being a mod.

[Jakers457]

Alright last thing, when I last engaged with this community. It was uneasy times where people were mashing against each other over internet ethics. At this time, and I only speak from how I perceived my experience, you were very invested in speaking for, say, the people to put it one way. For me, like other people's actions, your's seemed a bit questionable at the time.

With that in mind, and that time has passed. How would you, as a member of staff, deal with a situation that's nothing but a large can of worms with no real objective solution. One that is based on ethics and one's own constitution more than anything else. (Going a bit deep for a voluntary position on some internet community, but eh.)

[Frances]

Alright last thing, when I last engaged with this community. It was uneasy times where people were mashing against each other over internet ethics. At this time, and I only speak from how I perceived my experience, you were very invested in speaking for, say, the people to put it one way. For me, like other people's actions, your's seemed a bit questionable at the time.

With that in mind, and that time has passed. How would you, as a member of staff, deal with a situation that's nothing but a large can of worms with no real objective solution. One that is based on ethics and one's own constitution more than anything else. (Going a bit deep for a voluntary position on some internet community, but eh.)

Do you mean the Cassie drama?

What happens on other servers stays on other servers, in my opinion. If someone does something bad on another server and starts doing the same thing here, knowledge of their history can be used against them, but if someone does something bad elsewhere and does nothing here, they shouldn't get punished for it.

That specific situation was a pretty simple one, imo: there was a group of small friends who had their own private server, then other people came on, engaged in bad ERP on the server, and the initial group laughed at the ERP. I don't think it's an ethical breach - it's just ERP. A few things I noted, which led to me backing Cassie's group on this:

 

• The server was originally yes, really meant for something private. It was a group of 5-6 friends just having their own adventures. People from Aurora eventually started to come to it out of curiosity (and some of them were pretty rude), but Cassie never stated at any point that the server was meant to cater to Aurora regulars, nor that she was taking on any obligations or responsibilities towards them
• ERP wasn't allowed when the logs were taken.
  
• The logs were shared among a small group, not publicly spread to shame the involved individuals.
  
• The reason why this whole affair blew up was because of two parties: a person who decided to stir drama by sharing the logs from this group of friend, and Aurora admins who made an announcement out of banning Cassie. I think neither of those things were smart decisions, and neither are Cassie's fault.
  
• This is basically like if you ran a little game server, random people came on it and did something hilarious (in a bad way) and you laughed at it with your friends, then someone from your friends reported it to the authorities of a different place and said authorities made a big spectacle of the whole thing while banning you from their (unrelated) place.
  
• The whole "some of them were minors" thing is honestly quite negligible, considering there are I-dunno-who-many minors who participate in lewd chats all across the internet on a daily basis and the police/FBI doesn't get sent to deal with any of them.

 

What I would have done was most likely nothing at all, while turning away whoever saw fit to post logs from Cassie's chat and suggesting they stop trying to stir trouble. If I personally felt like helping the dignity of the people involved in the ERP I'd discretely suggest to them they keep their ERP to Skype or ERP servers, rather than going on some random person's server to textfuck.

Iiii think that should cover everything?

[Jakers457]

Ehh somewhat I guess. I'll abstain for now and will see how the thread progresses.

[Dea Tacita]

I'm afraid some of this is a vast exaggeration

 

As I said, this was awhile ago and might not be 100% accurate. But some of the details are still relevant

 

To clarify, I still think you're pretty good as an individual. I just don't think Modship would be the best thing

[keinto]

Ffrances used to be really awesome, astute, to a point charming and very perceptive. However, while she continues to be so on the forums, Frances doesn't really act like this on the server, and hasn't for quite some time. She's gained quite a few notes, the vast majority of which being a mix of meta-communication and just....really stupid shit.

 

This is the first post I've seen that addresses Ffrance's change in behavior. At this point, I am convinced she is being a troll and deliberately trying to lower the quality of RP in the server, specially when her tone and grammar in forums and ingame are compared. I was involved in the round that Sierra's complaint is about. This was the round where I decided to take another break from the server due to how bad the RP was that round. I was yet again disappointed when I learned one of the worst RPers that round was Ffrances possibly on an alternate account. Not clear which one was used during the round.

If she decided to change her ingame behavior, I am sure she would make a great moderator. But for now, I have to strongly oppose this application.

-1

[Frances]

This is the first post I've seen that addresses Ffrance's change in behavior. At this point, I am convinced she is being a troll and deliberately trying to lower the quality of RP in the server, specially when her tone and grammar in forums and ingame are compared. I was involved in the round that Sierra's complaint is about. This was the round where I decided to take another break from the server due to how bad the RP was that round. I was yet again disappointed when I learned one of the worst RPers that round was Ffrances possibly on an alternate account. Not clear which one was used during the round.

If she decided to change her ingame behavior, I am sure she would make a great moderator. But for now, I have to strongly oppose this application.

-1

Do take note that out of the 30+ rounds I played in the last month, two of them involved joke characters. (One was during this nuke round, another was during a nations round.)

I tried to explain my justifications a little bit on the player complaint which is still open. If you believe my character was genuinely "bad", feel free to explain why there, if you'd like?

[nbielinski]

Right, gonna slip in and just post this.

-1

Why? Well because Frances has this little issue with pride and deception. As it stands they've constantly seemed to pop up on discussions where they have no right to be and deliberately sparked issues with folks already trying to get shit solved. Now, this wouldn't be a bad thing and hell even I like debate. But its gotten to the point where, "Making Aurora Great." Seems to involve alienating everyone she deems unworthy of RPing. None the less, I have a few finals to study for so I won't get too involved. It just seems silly to me to elect someone to a mod position who seems to keep up to date with the server via arguments on the forums.

[LetzShake]

Changed my +1 to a -1 here. I didn't really expect to have to do this, a couple of days ago. If you'd told me a member of the lore team was going to be playing a character named 'halo' talking about Runescape and Call of Duty in-character, and laughing as they choke up blood from a ruptured lung, and encouraging similar behavior from others. I wouldn't go as far as calling Frances a troll and I don't think she's a bad person or anything like that because of our disagreements but... honestly I don't know what's bringing this all on, I just know, someone who thinks that is acceptable roleplay really needs to be far away from the server staff as possible.

[Nogo3]

Frances (in my experience on the forums atleast) seems able to actively disengage from a bad situation to take a step back, generally presents their points in a clear way, and seems extremely level headed in how they treat people. As said I've little on-server experience with them however I do know that the roleplay doesn't make the administrator. It really feels like to me that they have a cool head, a cool personality, and can likely deal with issues in a reasonable and just manner.

They've got my +1

I might swing with more information down the line, but we'll see how it goes. This is certainly an uninformed decision on my part, so I'm still looking out for evidence of the latter.

[Frances]

Why? Well because Frances has this little issue with pride and deception. As it stands they've constantly seemed to pop up on discussions where they have no right to be and deliberately sparked issues with folks already trying to get shit solved. Now, this wouldn't be a bad thing and hell even I like debate. But its gotten to the point where, "Making Aurora Great." Seems to involve alienating everyone she deems unworthy of RPing. None the less, I have a few finals to study for so I won't get too involved. It just seems silly to me to elect someone to a mod position who seems to keep up to date with the server via arguments on the forums.

Hm, really? Where have I tried to alienate anyone for their roleplay? I've only made one complaint about the quality of roleplay in the past... year, and it was because someone was trying to turn a Tajaran into a sparkling fursona. In general, my objective is more to allow as many people to do their thing as possible, without everybody getting upset.

 

Changed my +1 to a -1 here. I didn't really expect to have to do this, a couple of days ago. If you'd told me a member of the lore team was going to be playing a character named 'halo' talking about Runescape and Call of Duty in-character, and laughing as they choke up blood from a ruptured lung, and encouraging similar behavior from others. I wouldn't go as far as calling Frances a troll and I don't think she's a bad person or anything like that because of our disagreements but... honestly I don't know what's bringing this all on, I just know, someone who thinks that is acceptable roleplay really needs to be far away from the server staff as possible.

Don't get me wrong, I understand well the difference between a serious character and a joke character. I just enjoy joke characters, and play them (very rarely now) because I think they're an enjoyable break from the constant drama most rounds represent (storytelling drama, not internet drama).

Historically, joke characters and events have always been a small part of Aurora (and if you want to discuss their quality rather than their presence then I'd ask that you look beyond the mention of a single videogame - which is what you seem to be upset that I did). I actually don't mind - and am perfectly capable of - enforcing whatever it is that mods want, rather than what I personally want. I might try to convince others to give players some leeway if I see good reason to, but my plan isn't to make Aurora chucklefucking galore, and even though it saddens me a bit, I'm well aware that being a mod means telling individuals like Halo to lay off when they do things that are a little too ridiculous.

I don't think I've been acting like a complete idiot, though, because the current issue is that a few vocal users are disagreeing with the precedent that has been set with joke rounds and characters (that they're allowed to exist in moderation). As we haven't established yet whether your demands are legitimate and something that should be enforced, I think it's rather unfair to say I'd make a bad mod simply for getting caught in this.

I understand it might leave a bad taste in some people's mouths at first glance, but I believe it actually shows I'm concerned with the actual "fun' of the players (not for joking, for thinking it's okay to joke) and for the intents behind people's actions, rather than just being invested in enforcing the rules because "we srs now".

Lastly I didn't encourage other people to play silly characters at any point - it's something I believe people should do when they feel it's actually appropriate (such as in silly rounds) and with a decent concept behind it.

[LetzShake]

You can try to oversimplify it to the 'mention of a single video game' but there was a lot more bad RP from you in that round than that. "Hello Dank ops!" "We have the dankest lawyers" "We are terrorists haha" "I'm dying haha". It was all on a level that, if anyone else had done it, I don't think most people would've tolerated it at all.

Again it's not about 'silly characters'. Lets not get that terrible strawman going, again. As skull put it

 

We went from a nuanced, lighthearted character like Felix to just being blatant and boring about how we joke around. Like, seriously, memes ingame for days. It's just not quality anymore, it's lazy and it doesn't offer much beyond a kek. That is to say, it doesn't offer substance. The entire point of memes is that they lack substance.

You are actively making the server worse with this behavior.

[Nogo3]

I honestly think the whole deal with goofy memes and what-not is just blown way out of proportion. I just don't understand the felony behind saying a few dumb things and a little bit of role play on the dumb side. There's the argument to be made of breaking immersion but-... Really. I don't see it at all. I also don't see how role play conduct affects their ability to moderate over something.

I'm not sure what the point of so many complaints against the two are, even in the face of a heavy RP server. Sure. The tag says Heavy RP. And they might be goof trooping it up a bit. But, considering what they've done, don't you think this thing has gone on long enough?

Memes aren't a cancer to the server. There's more things that need fixing then "Dank Ops" without going on a full crusade. I'm not saying they're particularly tasteful or funny, but they really don't need to be to be able to be considered acceptable. Just that it's not /THIS/ big of a deal.

Sorry. Just reading the forums for the past couple of days has really started to piss me off with the transparency of the complaints. I'm just going to focus on how Frances is able to deal with stuff rather than how they play a game. I'd actually really like to see them in a trial and see how that goes, and hoping to see good things should that happen. All wait and see, I guess.

Forums are drowned in salt, by this point.

[rrrrrr]

+1. Frances is a good lad that's been around the block.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Guest

[Frances]

I don't want to not address these things, but pretty much the exact same discussion is taking place in the complaint in parallel, so I'd rather we continue it there to avoid redundancy, any arguments being lost, and making this application super long over a single debate.

As for how this reflects on my ability to moderate the server, I'll simply refer to what I already said earlier in this topic:

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand well the difference between a serious character and a joke character. I just enjoy joke characters, and play them (very rarely now) because I think they're an enjoyable break from the constant drama most rounds represent (storytelling drama, not internet drama).

Historically, joke characters and events have always been a small part of Aurora (and if you want to discuss their quality rather than their presence then I'd ask that you look beyond the mention of a single videogame - which is what you seem to be upset that I did). I actually don't mind - and am perfectly capable of - enforcing whatever it is that mods want, rather than what I personally want. I might try to convince others to give players some leeway if I see good reason to, but my plan isn't to make Aurora chucklefucking galore, and even though it saddens me a bit, I'm well aware that being a mod means telling individuals like Halo to lay off when they do things that are a little too ridiculous.

I don't think I've been acting like a complete idiot, though, because the current issue is that a few vocal users are disagreeing with the precedent that has been set with joke rounds and characters (that they're allowed to exist in moderation). As we haven't established yet whether your demands are legitimate and something that should be enforced, I think it's rather unfair to say I'd make a bad mod simply for getting caught in this.

I understand it might leave a bad taste in some people's mouths at first glance, but I believe it actually shows I'm concerned with the actual "fun' of the players (not for joking, for thinking it's okay to joke) and for the intents behind people's actions, rather than just being invested in enforcing the rules because "we srs now".

[SierraKomodo]

+1. Frances is a good lad that's been around the block. Letz Shake is a nerd and cannot stand against the Memelord Mafia.

 

You're calling yourselves the Memelord Mafia now? Seriously? This has become some sort of clan?

And you wonder why people are starting to have an issue with you lot.

[Frances]

+1. Frances is a good lad that's been around the block. Letz Shake is a nerd and cannot stand against the Memelord Mafia.

 

You're calling yourselves the Memelord Mafia now? Seriously? This has become some sort of clan?

And you wonder why people are starting to have an issue with you lot.

You might be taking this a bit too seriously.

I believe some people have started throwing accusations that a group of disjointed people formed a "memelord clan" or something of the like for sharing similar opinions. Other people are simply making fun of it.

[SierraKomodo]

+1. Frances is a good lad that's been around the block. Letz Shake is a nerd and cannot stand against the Memelord Mafia.

 

You're calling yourselves the Memelord Mafia now? Seriously? This has become some sort of clan?

And you wonder why people are starting to have an issue with you lot.

You might be taking this a bit too seriously.

I believe some people have started throwing accusations that a group of disjointed people formed a "memelord clan" or something of the like for sharing similar opinions. Other people are simply making fun of it.

 

Honestly? With how you lot keep saying it, and acting like you're in some kind of clique, can you really be surprised people might be thinking that?

[Frances]

Honestly? With how you lot keep saying it, and acting like you're in some kind of clique, can you really be surprised people might be thinking that?

I don't believe I did anything to act as if I was part of a clique, and I'm rather confused by these accusations seeing as I have never interacted with most of these people out of the game besides Halo.

[rrrrrr]

Honestly? With how you lot keep saying it, and acting like you're in some kind of clique, can you really be surprised people might be thinking that?

 

The only one who's implied we're in a clique is you and Letz Shake. I'm just making fun of that. Calm down, large lad.

[josh1133]

I think I'll comment, though my opinion should be very clear.

I will not, nor will I support this application until a drastic change in attitude changes. On the forums, the applicant is a fantastic writer, though it seems they try to spark fights by some of their post. On the server, they play silly characters round after round it seems, not just a couple of times as they seem to claim.

Maybe I'm just anti-fun and joy though, and simply a bunching multiple incidents into a short time span. But the problem of them having multiple incidents still is there.

They, at this point, seem more like a very clever troll in multiple ways instead of the player many of us know them as. So until there is a change:

-1