Vampire Thrall Murders Vampire, Mods say Okay - Implant ._.

[MagnificentMelkior]

If we played to the code, people would survive in space for upwards of thirty seconds before they die, when realistically their lungs would burst from the pressure and their eyeballs would explode.

 

Realistically it'd be something along the lines of two minutes as none of those things happen in spess because human bodies are robust as fuck. J-just sayin m-man.

People black out at around 15 seconds, and if they make the mistake of holding their breathe their lungs do indeed pop. Eyeballs don't explode though. Death occurs at 90 seconds or 2 minutes, I forget.

[Serveris]

[05:54:08]OOC: JKJudgeX/JKJudgeX : Enthralled people shouldn't kill their vampires, even if they have a loyalty implant. I'm calling BS, and if you ever want to have fun playing a vampire, you should, too.

[05:54:18]ADMIN: AimlessAnalyst/(AimlessAnalyst) toggled OOC.

[05:54:23]ADMIN: MOD: Serveris6/(Serveris6) : Dibs on this.

[05:54:32]ADMIN: PM: Serveris6/(Serveris6)->JKJudgeX/(JKJudgeX): Look, this was discussed. It's over.

[05:54:41]ADMIN: MOD: Garnascus/(Garnascus) : yeah he shouldnt take it to OOC

[05:54:43]ADMIN: PM: Serveris6/(Serveris6)->JKJudgeX/(JKJudgeX): It's time to move on.

[05:54:46]ADMIN: PM: JKJudgeX/(JKJudgeX)->Serveris6/(Serveris6): Adding you to the mod complaint too, then.

 

A brief description of my involvement in this incident, since I was named in the complaint.

After Garn and Jenna spoke with him concerning the incident, the round ended shortly afterwards.

Judge's OOC message, seen at 05:54:08, was said during the pre-round lobby after the reboot.

My only involvement in this incident (aside from delegating in msay with my peers when this issue was first adminhelped) was telling him that it was time to move onto the new round.

[Dea Tacita]

Okay! After a discussion with Skull and other members of staff, I'm going to say this. (After JKJudgeX responds, I intend to close the thread)

This situation was handled somewhat badly, while staff's decision (To allow Loyalty implants to override conversion) still stands (And is actually being given a mechanical "You can't do this" message). Both myself and Skull have agreed that JKJudgeX should have be informed of this failure of conversion. We apologize for this failure to communicate, and are fixing it so that this will not happen again.

[Skull132]

To further add. There are some mechanics that staff override ingame. Usually one of the main ones is lings getting LI-d: we permit them to bypass it, as it makes sense for their race. No one has ever tried to enthrall an LI-d person before, so we assumed it doesn't work. When it did, the admins acted as per the freedom they have in issues like this, and overrode the mechanics. The failure, though, comes from the fact that we didn't inform Judge, as we should have in a case like this. And we apologize for that.

As an aside, the code was patched today to make enthralling LI-d people impossiblé.

[JKJudgeX]

To further add. There are some mechanics that staff override ingame. Usually one of the main ones is lings getting LI-d: we permit them to bypass it, as it makes sense for their race. No one has ever tried to enthrall an LI-d person before, so we assumed it doesn't work. When it did, the admins acted as per the freedom they have in issues like this, and overrode the mechanics. The failure, though, comes from the fact that we didn't inform Judge, as we should have in a case like this. And we apologize for that.

As an aside, the code was patched today to make enthralling LI-d people impossiblé.

 

While it's really sad and an unnecessary nerf to make loyalty implants a free, magical, get-out-of-that-ability-free card that incentivizes vampires to leave heads and other loyalty implanted characters completely out of the round besides as murder targets, I appreciate the acknowledgement that I should have been informed of it "not working".

The drama that arises from a PROPERLY enthralled head of staff is often a very interesting playthrough, as other heads and security come to realize that the HoS/Captain/HoP is behaving strangely, a lot of good and interesting RP emerges. I've seen it happen a few times and those have been what I considered "good" vampire rounds. There's good confusion and suspicion on which to play, and causing conflict within security and command is interesting and different. When you enthrall regular crew, the chances of it being really interesting and involving a lot more people diminish. This encourages me to enthrall a scientist and ask him for bombs/gas canisters, enthrall an engineer and ask him to destroy the engine, or enthrall a chemist and ask him for deadly chemicals, rather than enthralling a head and causing some actually well-RPable drama. I take the line that a traitor's responsibility is to make the round fun for more people, and I always feel bad when I'm a traitor and I can't make that happen (either through my own failing, bad luck, or in this case, awkward rules lawyering). So for what it's worth, count my vote for allowing enthrall to work on anyone and anything, or, reducing its blood cost/time to invoke now that it has been further reduced in effectiveness.

Playing a vampire just became much less interesting... not sure I even want to play it anymore even though that round was really fun. I think the outright removal of loyalty implants from the game except for in revolution and MAYBE cult gamemodes would have been a step in a better direction, even. They are unnecessary "easy-mode" for already well-equipped and defended characters who have entire other crewmembers at their disposal.

I hope the enthrall attempt doesn't even fire, because people who expect this to operate like a normal SS13 server will still blow their own cover in enthrall attempts, and that's potentially just as bad as it not working.

[Skull132]

There are only a maximum of 4 people on the station LI-d at all times, though. All of them known, as well. Only the Captain, HoS, and IAAs (a max of two) are LI-d. Everyone else, 60% of the heads of staff even, are valid for enthrallment. Plus, if you really want to enthrall someone who's LI-d, make it into your objective. Acquire the tools, the minions, the setting to capture a captain/HoS, and to remove their LI. And then make them into your slave.

Anyways. Removal of LIs and their existence can be discussed in the suggestions boards!

[JKJudgeX]

Does it still work on synthetics, though?

I personally think it should if they are fully artificially intelligent, and it's implied that there's a sentient brain inside of them. Being highly injured physically and having some wires stuck in your brain shouldn't necessarily make you immune to a vampire's clearly metaphysical Enthrall (and neither should an implant, but we've been over that).

[Skull132]

It actually does work on IPCs, because bad code.

[Eliot Clef]

I think that it's perfectly logical Enthrallment (and similar) would work on IPCs but not work on station-bound synthetics. I think what would happen is, in the case of slaved synthetics they would in fact be converted but their laws would override the conversion process, making it a bit of a moot point.

IPCs do not have such external impositions on their behavior, and as such, should be able to be mindjacked.

[JKJudgeX]

I think that it's perfectly logical Enthrallment (and similar) would work on IPCs but not work on station-bound synthetics. I think what would happen is, in the case of slaved synthetics they would in fact be converted but their laws would override the conversion process, making it a bit of a moot point.

IPCs do not have such external impositions on their behavior, and as such, should be able to be mindjacked.

 

If it has a brain, or something that works exactly like one, it should be able to be enthralled.

Being enthralled is just really, really, really liking someone and not exactly knowing why or being able to control it... it's a magical psychological domination trick. It can and does give the vampire the ability to essentially dictate laws, that must be followed, just like the A.I. can with borgs.

IPCs already have 9000 advantages and there are a lot of players who dislike them because of that. I really don't think suddenly deciding that they are immune to yet another thing is a good idea.

[Eliot Clef]

I think that it's perfectly logical Enthrallment (and similar) would work on IPCs but not work on station-bound synthetics. I think what would happen is, in the case of slaved synthetics they would in fact be converted but their laws would override the conversion process, making it a bit of a moot point.

IPCs do not have such external impositions on their behavior, and as such, should be able to be mindjacked.

 

If it has a brain, or something that works exactly like one, it should be able to be enthralled.

Being enthralled is just really, really, really liking someone and not exactly knowing why or being able to control it... it's a magical psychological domination trick. It can and does give the vampire the ability to essentially dictate laws, that must be followed, just like the A.I. can with borgs.

IPCs already have 9000 advantages and there are a lot of players who dislike them because of that. I really don't think suddenly deciding that they are immune to yet another thing is a good idea.

 

That is in fact what I said. I defended borgs and AIs not being subject to enthrallment, not IPCs.

[Xelnagahunter]

In the long run I don't care either way, I'll RP however I am informed by staff teams or the code. As far as being an IPC and being enthralled goes, it kinda makes sense. But someone said it happens via a bite... "Here taste my metal neck and influence my electronic brain" simply doesn't have the flavor for positronic IPCs that I'd like. I'm not arguing they should definitely be immune, I'm only arguing the thought process involved in the flavor of the actions. That's my two cents on that topic.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Because it's admin policy that LI's aren't overriden by loyalty implant this state is also supported by the lore. As it stands LI's provide their intended immunity against mind-control and antagonism.

[Garnascus]

Well, the code has been modified (you're awesome skull) to be consistent so you will know the LI people cannot/resist the implant. It looks to me this has been resolved? are there any further thoughts on the OP JKjuidgeX?