Making the Internal Affairs Agent Playable

[Rechkalov]

Except being a head requires expertise and good knowledge of a department - having a single person with the possibility of overlooking any department is a bad idea, both IC-wise and OOCly.

 

Now, let's not be hasty! Imagine the RP potential!

It ICly makes sense (to me, anyhow) that the IA Agents would be capable of taking the positions of authorithy, if no heads were present and were badly required -true, with regard to their relationship to CentComm, I always saw them more as bureaucratic "commisars", politruks, but let's face it, we need more people to fill the authorithy positions; and should the IAAs be whitelisted as suggested in this thread, you could be fairly certain that the agents would be generally decent roleplayers.

Where I am going with this; the point you make is exactly what would make the game interesting.

Legally, the IAAs would have the power to order people around, but practically, the would likely have some crucial gaps in their knowledge of the department's functioning = POTENTIAL

The agent would have to dance this super-complicated dance in which he acknowledges his ignorance and gives his "subordinates" enough room to do their job effectively, while trying to bring some order into the dept., and at the same time he would have to win their loyalty or at least maintain an aura of authorithy and -if possible- competence -within his field, anyhow.

Personally, I believe that even in the case things go real bad (real bad with regard to the RP ability I would expect of a whitelisted player), the game is still going to be interesting to say at least (edit: I have this Major Major Major image in my head) - and if things go right, then you can have some real nice atmosphere and perhaps even bonding between the characters who learn to trust each other to each do their part.

All in all, I really like this and support it with all my +1s (heck, I'd like to play such a role right away!) - except the part where IAAs stand in as security officers. That seems off for me.

[Frances]

Alright, then in this case, two questions:

1. Why would this be a thing? ICly, why employ one role, which can overlook and direct any and all departments, even with limited authority, when it's impossible to assume said role would have the required knowledge to direct anything?

2. OOCly, this requires whitelisting IAAs. If I want to control a bunch of departments that aren't mine, I'll just go captain and offer my assistance (recognizing, obviously, that I'm outmatched by my staff, should I be in a field that is not my area of expertise). How is this any different, other than being more annoying? (Because IAAs go from being neutral third parties to being your ignorant supervisor you can do nothing about.)

[Skull132]

It ICly makes sense (to me, anyhow) that the IA Agents would be capable of taking the positions of authorithy, if no heads were present and were badly required -true, with regard to their relationship to CentComm, I always saw them more as bureaucratic "commisars", politruks, but let's face it, we need more people to fill the authorithy positions; and should the IAAs be whitelisted as suggested in this thread, you could be fairly certain that the agents would be generally decent roleplayers.

 

Okay, their relationship to CentralCommand does not, in my eyes, put them in a more favoured position to take command. However, it does enable them to ask for instruction, guidance and directive on a matter. Does this give them the authority to conduct the execution of the orders required? No. Does it give them the authority to say, "These are orders from Central Command regarding this situation, here is the stamped fax that describes them, you are to carry these out to the letter," and then watch? Yes.

Also, as FFrances already pointed out, whitelisting IAA will only make it less played than it already is.

 

Where I am going with this; the point you make is exactly what would make the game interesting.

Legally, the IAAs would have the power to order people around, but practically, the would likely have some crucial gaps in their knowledge of the department's functioning = POTENTIAL

The agent would have to dance this super-complicated dance in which he acknowledges his ignorance and gives his "subordinates" enough room to do their job effectively, while trying to bring some order into the dept., and at the same time he would have to win their loyalty or at least maintain an aura of authorithy and -if possible- competence -within his field, anyhow.

 

They already have this function, kinda. This move requires no step other than actually talking to people without taking charge of a situation. Is some random department bickering amongst themselves while no head is present? Okay, go and resolve it -- do your job. Talk with people, interview people, resolve the matter and restore a state of functionality. But do not interrupt their work. If the work they are doing is in charge of Corporate Regs, then request to elevate the issue for Internal Security investigation and intervention.

 

Personally, I believe that even in the case things go real bad (real bad with regard to the RP ability I would expect of a whitelisted player), the game is still going to be interesting to say at least (edit: I have this Major Major Major image in my head) - and if things go right, then you can have some real nice atmosphere and perhaps even bonding between the characters who learn to trust each other to each do their part.

 

I'm going to have to disagree on this one. Leadership mentality should not be expected from an IAA. If a department needs a leader, then under perhaps the guidance and advisement of the IAA, they can have someone take initiative, or work together. However, to directly appoint someone without any leadership expectation in a command position like that is utterly foolish, to me.

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I tried answering these points in a manner where I'd bring out alternatives that are already feasible, as opposed to just flat out saying that they should not be done.

The thing is, an IAA already fields enough say to resolve just about every conflict that I have seen brought up in this thread, if they communicate with the right people and speak the right words.

[Jakers457]

I propose a means for them to Fax centcomm and an improved design for their office. That's all they really need, the suggestions that have been put out will only bork the job.

[Frances]

I propose a means for them to Fax centcomm and an improved design for their office. That's all they really need, the suggestions that have been put out will only bork the job.

They have a fax machine.

What would you like to see in their office? I believe the coming update will give them a clipboard, but I can't think of anything else that would be needed they don't already have.

[Jakers457]

I propose a means for them to Fax centcomm and an improved design for their office. That's all they really need, the suggestions that have been put out will only bork the job.

They have a fax machine.

What would you like to see in their office? I believe the coming update will give them a clipboard, but I can't think of anything else that would be needed they don't already have.

 

Hmm perhaps if we gave them some more space, if possible, and potentially their own individual work desks so they can work on their own individual cases without clutter. It would be nice if there was a waiting room for those who are making a complaint or waiting for an interview. Perhaps a desk for people to fill out complaint forms too. I mean, space is always an issue though.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I love playing IA. Mishka Tepes is my IA agent, and I enjoy putting her on the station. In general, when played correctly Internal Affairs is a name that should make people either IC'ly uneasy or relieved because they are on the station to observe it like a hawk.

This is the main job description of the IAA:

Observe, advise, report.

I've said it before in OOC, and I'll say it again here: IA already have an immense deal of power even with this job description. Xander's HoP that was being bitched out for requiring paperwork? If that character had contacted an IAA, that IAA could 'advise' the Heads of Staff that paperwork is required. If the IAA was rebuffed, then a simple fax to CC could bring the hammer down with CC reaffirming the necessity of paperwork. Don't underestimate the power of the fax machine combined with active admins.

IAA should not be permitted to take command of a department. The only way this could be acceptable would telling security what they could legally do and what they shouldn't do when there is no HoS. They know SoP by heart and can tell when a department is being run poorly, but they can't run it themselves. However, I do believe that they should be given Command channel access. This would open up more RP potential, and make a bit of sense IC'ly. IA are snitches in fancy suits, and should be given a way to observe the Heads of staff and ensure what they're doing is legal - or if it's not legal, finding to see if there's a very good reason for it happening at all.

The few times Mishka Tepes was given a command headset, that's what I used it for. "I advise [x]" or "I suggest [y]" when there's a discussion/disagreement on anything in the Command channel. IAA cannot give orders to anyone on the station unless they have a fax permitting them to, but they are an advisor for SoP and procedures in general.

Inspections are also something that can be done more. It's also something that shouldn't be IC'ly denied without a good reason. I've created an IA paperwork for department inspections/periodic reports to CC about the station in general and its status, but I'll have to find it again.

In conclusion:

IAA is the eyes and ears of CC on the station. They advise on SoP, ensure everything is done legally and according to procedure (which in itself means they handle disputes) as well as keeping CC updated and occasionally bringing down the wrath of CCIA.

[Frances]

The few times Mishka Tepes was given a command headset

Alright, that is actually something I like.

Giving IAAs access to the command channel, Y/N? Arguments? Moom's IAA was always super useful to me when playing HoS (they can already advise you about law on the sec channel), and having them work as kind of secretaries/advisers to heads in addition to their regular duties does sound like a very attractive idea.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The few times Mishka Tepes was given a command headset

Alright, that is actually something I like.

Giving IAAs access to the command channel, Y/N? Arguments? Moom's IAA was always super useful to me when playing HoS (they can already advise you about law on the sec channel), and having them work as kind of secretaries/advisers to heads in addition to their regular duties does sound like a very attractive idea.

 

Y. This would be a boon; it would give IAA more stuff to do, and engage them with the Heads of staff in both RP and general observance and advisement. The only downsides would be the usual buttfaces being dumb or not knowing SoP enough to advise the Heads, but those could be dealt with by admins like usual.

[K0NFL1QT]

The few times Mishka Tepes was given a command headset

Alright, that is actually something I like.

Giving IAAs access to the command channel, Y/N? Arguments? Moom's IAA was always super useful to me when playing HoS (they can already advise you about law on the sec channel), and having them work as kind of secretaries/advisers to heads in addition to their regular duties does sound like a very attractive idea.

 

I support the idea, but it will make some rounds excellent and some rounds terrible. Some IAA's already act like they are secondary Captains, and some completely ignore the fact they have Loyalty Implants. Granting a non-whitelist role access to Command channels will confuse IAA's into thinking they actually are command.

[Skull132]

I support the idea, but it will make some rounds excellent and some rounds terrible. Some IAA's already act like they are secondary Captains, and some completely ignore the fact they have Loyalty Implants. Granting a non-whitelist role access to Command channels will confuse IAA's into thinking they actually are command.

 

Two very simple actions: curb them, report them, done. Idiotic IAAs can be very easily dealt with in a running fashion, meaning you ahelp their conduct, it'll be reviewed, and dealt with usually on the spot.

[Frances]

Agreed with Skull. Most people already know what the IAA role is from playing on other baycode servers. And those that do not can easily be informed.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The few times Mishka Tepes was given a command headset

Alright, that is actually something I like.

Giving IAAs access to the command channel, Y/N? Arguments? Moom's IAA was always super useful to me when playing HoS (they can already advise you about law on the sec channel), and having them work as kind of secretaries/advisers to heads in addition to their regular duties does sound like a very attractive idea.

 

I support the idea, but it will make some rounds excellent and some rounds terrible. Some IAA's already act like they are secondary Captains, and some completely ignore the fact they have Loyalty Implants. Granting a non-whitelist role access to Command channels will confuse IAA's into thinking they actually are command.

 

If it was possible there should be a note somewhere that is visible to IAA players that says in bold "You are not command. You are here to observe and advise. You report to CC first and Captain second."

[Guest]

If it was possible there should be a note somewhere that is visible to IAA players that says in bold "You are not command. You are here to observe and advise. You report to CC first and Captain second."

Can be done easily, there is already a message for when you become a head telling you the role is important.

[Guest]

Moom's IAA was always super useful to me when playing HoS

 

I am honestly surprised that this statement has been made.

[Guest]

The few times Mishka Tepes was given a command headset

Alright, that is actually something I like.

Giving IAAs access to the command channel, Y/N? Arguments? Moom's IAA was always super useful to me when playing HoS (they can already advise you about law on the sec channel), and having them work as kind of secretaries/advisers to heads in addition to their regular duties does sound like a very attractive idea.

 

Y. If there is a Head of Personnel, and I am IAA, I usually ask for their spare headset. Having command access generally just makes it easier than PDAing them every time you have a query, and is much easier than calling a full command meeting to discuss an issue. Overall, it will promote better communication between Internal Affairs and Command.

[Davidchan]

I'm actually torn on this one. I'm going to vote No.

On the one hand, the IAA has the right to stick his/her nose anywhere they believe events or actions that CentCom/Corporate would not approve of. If they can dig up enough reasonable doubt that something bad is going on, CentCom can give them the authority to requisition any item they need to do any task, up to the Nuclear Authentication Disk to set the Nuke. An extreme example, but that doesn't mean for day to day operations the IAA has the power to just demand the secure briefcase/disk without reason.

The start of every shift, how ever, is assumed to be normal operations. IAA is still a civilian-esque role and having access to every single channel from the get go might give players new to the role the wrong impression, worse still if they start talking to people on department channels. I would consider voting yes if they had a partially disabled headset that could only transmit on public radio, but intercepted all the channels of a Command Headset, if the IAA discovered anything to warrant needing a command headset all they need to do is Fax CentCom.

In short, the IAA is an extension of CentComs will, upgrading the IAAs starting position to grant them additional access, equipment or authority is removing a Fax to CentCom, RP and a chance for the IAA to do their damn job. If we REALLY wanted to go batshit off the deepend for emergencies where the heads of staff are not present/dead or otherwise not doing their jobs, I vote we have a locked safe in the IAA's office, within the safe is an all access ID card and maybe a CentCom hat or other item to help them take charge of the situation. The catch here being that only CentCom has the passcode to the safe and the IAA would need to Fax out the situation and request the authority to correct it or at least salvage it.

[K0NFL1QT]

You could take it one step further and give the IAA essentially a copy of the Captains headset, giving them access to all department channels. Better fits the theme of them being, essentially, CentCom spies there to ensure smooth running and strict adherance to CentCom procedures, alerting them to any potential misdeeds that require investigation in the event that a Head doesn't feel like reporting them through the Command Channel. A break of protocol unreported is still a break in protocol.

Taking it further would be to grant them access to PDA messaging, but that might be a little too invasive.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I'm actually torn on this one. I'm going to vote No.

On the one hand, the IAA has the right to stick his/her nose anywhere they believe events or actions that CentCom/Corporate would not approve of. If they can dig up enough reasonable doubt that something bad is going on, CentCom can give them the authority to requisition any item they need to do any task, up to the Nuclear Authentication Disk to set the Nuke. An extreme example, but that doesn't mean for day to day operations the IAA has the power to just demand the secure briefcase/disk without reason.

The start of every shift, how ever, is assumed to be normal operations. IAA is still a civilian-esque role and having access to every single channel from the get go might give players new to the role the wrong impression, worse still if they start talking to people on department channels. I would consider voting yes if they had a partially disabled headset that could only transmit on public radio, but intercepted all the channels of a Command Headset, if the IAA discovered anything to warrant needing a command headset all they need to do is Fax CentCom.

In short, the IAA is an extension of CentComs will, upgrading the IAAs starting position to grant them additional access, equipment or authority is removing a Fax to CentCom, RP and a chance for the IAA to do their damn job. If we REALLY wanted to go batshit off the deepend for emergencies where the heads of staff are not present/dead or otherwise not doing their jobs, I vote we have a locked safe in the IAA's office, within the safe is an all access ID card and maybe a CentCom hat or other item to help them take charge of the situation. The catch here being that only CentCom has the passcode to the safe and the IAA would need to Fax out the situation and request the authority to correct it or at least salvage it.

 

Have you experienced IAA on the command headset or have examples of IAA abusing their headset? IAA is there in a civilian role yes, but they're also there to advise and monitor the Heads of Staff. It's hard to do that when you're completely in the dark and have to use your PDA to coordinate between a bunch of different Heads to figure out what's going on. I mean, there's no authority behind the IA outside what the fax machine tells them they do, so the potential of annoying people with their command headset access is limited the the buttheadedness of the player. Giving them access to /all/ channels would just be overkill, and just... Too much; probably even violate privacy laws

And as to the safe... I think that's a bad idea. If the station really was in that dire of a strait, they'd send in an ERT or an actual NT official. IAA investigate, and are an extension of CCIA. They do not have training to command a vessel or a department. The only thing near to this is security officers deferring to an IA's judgement in the absence of an HoS, but that's on legal and procedural matters rather than any tactical or strategic planning.

Even from an IC perspective, giving an IA agent a command position would be a massive conflict of interest. While they are on the station they aren't supposed to have ties to it; they're detached from the crew and aren't supposed to fraternize. And since IAA are hardwired to always follow SoP no matter what, putting them in charge during a crisis would just drive everyone insane.

"I don't care if the nuclear operatives are mowing down civilians in the bar. We are not officially on red alert so you officers will have to make due with pepper-spray and stun sticks. Please be sure to tell the operatives their charges when you arrest them or they'll have to be released."

[Davidchan]

Have you experienced IAA on the command headset or have examples of IAA abusing their headset? IAA is there in a civilian role yes, but they're also there to advise and monitor the Heads of Staff. It's hard to do that when you're completely in the dark and have to use your PDA to coordinate between a bunch of different Heads to figure out what's going on. I mean, there's no authority behind the IA outside what the fax machine tells them they do, so the potential of annoying people with their command headset access is limited the the buttheadedness of the player. Giving them access to /all/ channels would just be overkill, and just... Too much; probably even violate privacy laws

 

I think I was mistaking the command headset with the captain's headset, but still there something to be said about right vs privilege when it comes to the IAA. They have the right to ask for damn near anything on the station, but not the privilege to have it on their own authority. The Head of Personnel refusing the headset for any reason gives the Heads and IAA a chance to roleplay, without a Fax from CentCom the IAA has literally no power but to advise, but with that Fax they can practically change space law. They don't start out with any special equipment or access to sensitive areas, having unrestricted access to Command Channel would be incredibly over powered in my opinion.

 

And as to the safe... I think that's a bad idea. If the station really was in that dire of a strait, they'd send in an ERT or an actual NT official. IAA investigate, and are an extension of CCIA. They do not have training to command a vessel or a department. The only thing near to this is security officers deferring to an IA's judgement in the absence of an HoS, but that's on legal and procedural matters rather than any tactical or strategic planning.

 

Again, this was emergency situation, much like the Captain's Spare ID when the people who SHOULD deal with it can not. OOC This could mean they are SSD, Dead or just not doing their job. And only CentCom would have the code to activate the safe to allow the IAA to get the ID card. This is an emergency powers thing, once the situation has been resolved or dealt with, the IAA would be expected to surrender the power and go back to being a normal agent for NanoTrasen. This is not trump card card for the IAA to use on any active heads of staff, but this is a contingency plan (albeit forced by OOC circumstances as this server rarely has enough heads to deal with a round) set by NT. If any heads of staff are active to deal with the threat, the request by the IAA would be denied, but if he can prove they are incompetent, rogue or just making the situation worse, he can have them demoted and himself temporarily promoted until someone actually qualified to deal with the situation comes along.

[Serveris]

I for one am in favor of IA recieving command comms access. This would make briefing them on situations and communication between command much simpler.

Whilst playing as a head of security, I find internal affairs invaluable in maintaining order and productivity throughout the station. Every round, I am constantly communicating with IA though my earpiece, my PDA, the fax machine in the bridge, using officers and assistants as message runners when comms are down, and in person. Hell. I would probably communicate with Dorian Bonds with smoke signals, were they implemented.

All of this coordinating,whilst also trying to keep the other command staff aware of their activities, is exhausting. As if keeping my officers from beating prisoners, and ensuring proper escalation of force was being used wasn't enough.

Them being able to keep themselves informed of command activities would take a load off for sure. +1.

[BlueScope]

I'd also like to raise the issue of IAA's simply being ignored. I spent two hours investigating a CSI, and every officer on the station ignored me when I asked he be arrested as a result of that investigation. When I referred to them earlier as lacking teeth, this is the kind of thing I mean.

[BlueScope]

What would you like to see in their office? I believe the coming update will give them a clipboard, but I can't think of anything else that would be needed they don't already have.

 

Another camera and universal recorder would be nice.

[Frances]

I'd clarify the plan would be to give them access to the command channel, not a command headset. They'd have a HoS headset basically, not captain. (Security + command)

[Guest]

I'd clarify the plan would be to give them access to the command channel, not a command headset. They'd have a HoS headset basically, not captain. (Security + command)

 

About adding things to their office! Remove about, all of the folders, there is simply no need for 7 folders in the damned office