Player Complaint - 1138 - Forums

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

BYOND Key: Jackboot

Player Byond Key: 1138

Staff involved: forum mods but idk if they responded to the reports

Reason for complaint: He turned a simple personal analogy of an experience dealing with paperwork happy command, in which i said i wouldn't name him, into a massive blow up and personal attacks. He then PM'd me on discord telling me to delete my account.

http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6322#p62918

http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6322#p62928

http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6322#p62933

http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6322&start=10#p62984

The only post where he didn't riddle it with personal attacks was this one, for reference, to show he knows how to engage in a debate with civility.

http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6322#p62941

 

What the portion of the community that establishes itself as the anti-paperwork circlejerk fails to realize

Jackboot went extremely moreso autistically apeshit than he's describing of me.

I'm blasting you because you're totally incapable of getting any of the facts straight and you seem way more comfortable pushing a narrative, overdressing your own complaints on falsehoods and inaccuracy rather than telling the truth.

Before Jackboot's character went full metal autist

Delete your account, you are embarrassing.

I literally just agreed with you, if you actually sought out verbal permission from a head of staff in that case then it would've been fine. But you didn't, and now you're trying to say that you did and everything needs to change around you because you got in trouble for a legitimately stupid thing to do. Please delete your forum account.

This is a really simple, yet unheard-of concept likely due to the fact that human nature likes to irrationally demonize anything they don't like. They call this confirmation bias, and it's a huge logical sin, because it leads to incivility and general stupidity and dumb behavior stemming from it.

 

I sat on this for a few days and asked a few people if I was just being defensive about this since I was on the receiving end. They and I still feel this is unreasonable and unacceptable behavior.

Approximate Date/Time: June 12th

[Guest]

Firstly on the discord issue: http://prntscr.com/bhdqua

That was it. Single sentence. From last Sunday. The other posts? Lemme ask this, is that grounds to be taken as offense in any way? You've sat on this for several days now, so it can be assumed you had some thought about this.

Secondly, I want you to answer a question. Did you in any way feel compromised or offended on the basis of me blasting you rather loudly for generally being unable to get the facts straight and telling various levels of falsehood?

Thirdly. Is it wrong by any community guidelines for one user to call out other forum users for distributing misinformation?

Fourth, was anything I said was specifically wrong or nonfactual? Or are you particularly focusing on personal interpretation?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

As we already said at length in that thread you derailed. Several witnesses and players in the specific round in question said you were unreasonable. You fought with vikakti, engineering left the station, we spend a long time building an outpost in the middle of space where engineers slowly went SSD one after another, i popped a lung, i went to medical, i got patched up, i went cryo. You are being dramatic and exaggerating in your version of the events. But that's not the focus of the complaint. You presented yourself full steam ahead and used patronizing, condescending, and immature behavior and personal attacks which violate the Do Not Be A Dick rule.

[Guest]

You presented yourself full steam ahead and used patronizing, condescending, and immature behavior and personal attacks which violate the Do Not Be A Dick rule.

 

I don't agree. We've exchanged this sort of OOC banter all the time with associated shitflinging and non-serious character attacks. You chose this basis to make a complaint on so you could win an internet argument and have the last laugh over such a petty issue like airlocks, lol.

You're basically implying it was unwarranted and more than just the same inane petty banter we've engaged in more than one occasion for the sake of collective amusement.

Like really, this is one of our conversations about John Oliver and how I thought he was not the kind of comedian I was interested in listening to, and you thought he was a revolutionary concept-maker because he opposes trump or whatever:

http://prntscr.com/bhe2qm

http://prntscr.com/bhe2xi

http://prntscr.com/bhe30u

Here's one where we discussed being unable to see post dates,

http://prntscr.com/bhe2et

Like, really? None of us got offended here, it was all shitty banter.

I could easily take any of these to the forums and spin this concept as a "jackboot is harassing me boohoohoo they aren't giving constructive answers to lore questions ahuhuhuhu~" but I wouldn't do that because I'm not literally out for your job. It is banter you are not at all unfamilar with.

So, what's changed? Are you taking statements like "delete your account" as a threat to your community position or an attack on your character now?

[Bygonehero]

Like, really? None of us got offended here, it was all shitty banter.

 

 

You being salty on OOC isn't offensive, it's just rude and your 'shitty banter' mostly consists of memes and ripping on other people, generally not a nice thing. I get you have strong opinions, but everyone has opinions. You should realize that some people don't want to hear them during a round, more so if it criticizes their play in a unconstructive way.

[rrrrrr]

there's been a button you can press for about 7 years since the old goonstation days it's called "disable OOC" and it makes it so that you cannot see OOC and get triggered

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

This isn't about OOC. It's about his behavior on the forums. If you have issues with Delta's OOC behavior you should make a separate complaint thread. If you have evidence of delta being a meanie poopoo head to you that breaks forums rules then, idk, that probably has a place here?? it's whatever the handling admin thinks counts as involvement i guess.

Since I'm already posting I might as well add,

Delta there is a difference between having a conversation about John Oliver where I was exploring why he wasn't funny to you (in which you went on long rambling shit flings on progressives for some reason and claimed all progressives are selfish assholes, like out of no where. Like I cannot articulate how weird this is.

 

 

If you honestly think this conversation in which you get kinda weird and obsessive and political over a comedy skit pointing out its cheaper to give every single man, woman, and child in america waffle irons than build a wall on the border according to trumps blueprints.... is exactly the same "haha it's just good fun fam :)" as telling me to delete my account, calling me autistic, and hurling personal attacks in your forum posts, like saying the only reason I'm in this community is because I'm bitter and want to ruin everyone's time???? I don't know???? Stop that????

[Guest]

You're getting weird and obsessive over forum posts my man, especially when I didn't even violate community standards. You're only choosing to get offended. I've been able to step away from a lot of discussions with you by simply saying "ok this is bait" and I go back to playing another video game. For instance, the first time you "accused" me of gank jokingly, I didn't get it and I legitimately took you seriously. That was my mistake. It's great that the tables have flip-flopped in this regard, I now see how you saw awhile ago.

I won't even mention the stuff on the discord, I will say that about 80-90% of it was not serious and I was intentionally yanking your chain. Pretty much a mirror to the things you try and yank my chain about. No biggie though, right?

Well, I'm wrong here. Poe's law. Despite being the current year, most people have minimal or no understanding of irony, humor or non-seriousness.

You honestly don't even have to toggle ooc on/off if you don't care about it, just close your eyes, tell yourself it isn't real and that the text being displayed does not matter. You'd be telling the truth for once, at least! Being real with yourself is very important.

I mean hey, consider this: staff didn't respond to your reports, could it be that the mods/admins found zero actual issue with it and saw it as shitty banter?

Either that or it was neglect, but I invite you to prove that, at least. I can easily call the forum mod team in here to chime in, as they're primarily responsible for watching the queue of reports. We'd have many questions answered, at the very least.

But hey, did you consider that perhaps you were overreacting, my dude?..

..The way you're pushing with this probably says no.

Also, I should probably add, in regards to the "autistic" argument. I called out your behavior as autistic. Not you! How you were acting? Yes. Did I say you were socially crippled? No. Did I say you were acting socially crippled? Absolutely. These two statements are not the same, however, and only one end is very much malicious and indicative of ad hom.

some citations, actually:

Jackboot went extremely moreso autistically apeshit than he's describing of me.

 

Before Jackboot's character went full metal autist

 

Think on this, will ya? Was this a direct insult to you personally, your character or is this describing in a vulgar manner how the character was acting?

I'm thinking that you believe in the former. I phrased it otherwise.

It's OK though, it's natural human bias. People look for ways to get back at each other all the time. I'm not mad, even if you are.

And if you seriously took the "delete your account" with any degree of offense or seriousness, you need to rethink your rationale and your decision-making. Not me.

You making a giant deal out of this is the only reason I'm still bothering to talk about it, lol.

[Serveris]

Right. Going to mull over this with the other staff over player complaints, and in the meanwhile, will be locking this topic to try and prevent the spill-out that it's turning into. Thread will be unlocked with the verdict/action, if needed.

[Skull132]

Complant, resume.

Tbh, not counting the shit on Discord (because really, discord is an optional mode of communication and both Delta and or Jackboot are free to block each other to high heaven there), Jackboot has a point.

Delta's posts rather regularly out of opinionated bile that very rarely actually contribute to the discussion, as opposed to well reasoned opinions on the issue presented. It may not break the the rules per say, because, "Hey, I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your character!" But let's be frank. The posts illustrate a mode of conduct that can be easily referred to as, "hounding". You go full blast, and you literally don't stop going until the other side no longer wants to deal with your shit.

Literally compare these two posts:

A reasoned display of opinion that is on topic and furthers the discussion by, at the very least, adding an alternate viewpoint - http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6322#p62941

A post which contains no constructive proposition, opinion, or even comments on the issue, and instead goes after specific circumstances and attempts to undermine the original post - http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6322#p62918

You obviously know the difference, Delta. So, what gives?

[Guest]

Delta's posts rather regularly out of opinionated bile

 

Because this is so unlike the other miserable attempts at forum posting, from other regular forum users. Most certainly.

 

It may not break the the rules per say, because,

 

If it doesn't break the rules either in verbatim or spirit, why push further?

 

The posts illustrate a mode of conduct that can be easily referred to as, "hounding".

 

This implies I'm harking on Jackboot every day on Discord/Skype/in-game whenever I get the opportunity.

 

You go full blast, and you literally don't stop going until the other side no longer wants to deal with your shit.

 

It's shock and awe tactics. People are too unreasonable to level with others because they rarely ever want to see a fencesitter express reasonable opunions that express misgivings to either extreme. Overall, moderate expression of opinion does absolutely nothing when there's enough of either extreme. So either you go hard or you go home, and I must admit I'm very much tired of the same put-down condescending asshole rhetoric spawned from wherever they came from.

So sorry that I became just another asshole and that I'm basically a hypocrite, but this is how I choose to respond to this crap. I'm not a fan of "I can do whatever I want because I have the occupational capacity to do so regardless if I'm just a low-level employee" type of attitudes, I'm not a fan of those entitled attitudes taking root in OOC and I'm not a fan of unnecessarily progressive attitudes seeking to change everything on the baseline that suits their ideal comfort zone fantasy they have in their head.

And I'm definitely tired of having to feel the sharp end of the spear for keeping the best interests of roleplay stability in mind before agreeing to any sort of change in regards to that. The OOC matters little to me, the player interaction has its own varying value but it doesn't measure up to quality of character interaction in addition to the overall roleplay standards we've claimed to have in place since the beginning. This is not me excusing myself for being argumentatively inconsistent because the server attitude has been incredible inconsistent, this is me identifying that the latter is a trend and people will adapt to it. Was I right in that regard? You decide, you're the server admin about to make an imminent decision here.

Pardon me if you think I'm going about this the wrong way, but I've attempted every other kind of attitude and it does not achieve results in the best interests of the server. We can argue about the moral side of it all day but what matters if the server-side change that results in making groundbreaking decisions on silly whims. Jackboot can have hurt feelings about it all he wants, or he can not have hurt feelings about it. It would not affect anything one bit when it comes to that.

 

You obviously know the difference, Delta. So, what gives?

 

Like every other poster, whether composed of sweet bread or not, everyone chooses to post how they want, and there's really nothing you can do about that aside from dealing with every single individual that you see as "problematic" in posting. Don't take this as "I do what I want", while probably true or possible untrue, I will take responsibility for the words I used if it comes down to that. I can be a man about this, sure.

Ball's in your court now, though. Thoughts?

[Bedshaped]

You should calm down. Take it easy. Let things go.

Jackboot probably should too.

Constantly writing out textblocks can't be good for your health.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

You should calm down. Take it easy. Let things go.

Jackboot probably should too.

Constantly writing out textblocks can't be good for your health.

 

I'm fine, I'm just waiting for it to be handled.

[Bygonehero]

http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6515

This is where your opinions stop being opinions and start becoming attacks.

From your post it seems like you are doing it for fun. The Aurora forums exist for the Aurora community to communicate, not to spread attacks.

Poking fun is all well and good, but from your wording it's obvious you aren't trying for that.

In the literal forum rules, Do not use ad hominem. This means do not attack a person's character (character in this case meaning the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual). You are expected to argue the presented ideas, not the person. If someone were to attack you, don’t take matters into your own hands, report it to us.

 

Power to the people to shame other people into roleplaying better, I say!

 

^^This is against forum rules.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

Only post if involved. If you are not a moderator or administrator and were not involved in the incident(s) referred to, you may not post or reply to a player complaint regarding said incident(s).

OK, backseat mod. I should absolutely take your say on the matter with 100% seriousness as you proceed to break a forum rule yourself.

Skull, will you actually decide to do something instead of leaving yet another complaint thread in complaint limbo as you always do?

[Bygonehero]

This isn't about OOC. It's about his behavior on the forums. If you have issues with Delta's OOC behavior you should make a separate complaint thread. If you have evidence of delta being a meanie poopoo head to you that breaks forums rules then, idk, that probably has a place here?? it's whatever the handling admin thinks counts as involvement i guess.

 

I was asked, and so I provided evidence. As for my initial involvement, it did include several attacks you made upon people in OOC which will be handled in a separate thread at the conclusion of this one.

[Guest]

This isn't about OOC. It's about his behavior on the forums. If you have issues with Delta's OOC behavior you should make a separate complaint thread. If you have evidence of delta being a meanie poopoo head to you that breaks forums rules then, idk, that probably has a place here?? it's whatever the handling admin thinks counts as involvement i guess.

 

I was asked, and so I provided evidence. As for my initial involvement, it did include several attacks you made upon people in OOC which will be handled in a separate thread at the conclusion of this one.

 

Nobody directly asked you, and that "evidence" does not apply in this current case. That is up right on the general board where anyone can see it. By your own logic, anyone and everyone who sees the thread at this time is involved at this point and is free to compost at will.

Except, no, that's not allowed either.

The primary complaint is about the exchanges between myself and Jackboot. Kindly butt out unless you have actual evidence relating to the current case, Sparkles.

[Garnascus]

Skull is asleep, and will handle this in the morning. Until then i am locking this thread.

[Skull132]

Bygone literally has a point, though. As does Bedshaped.

And you failed to understand my own stance of, "I literally don't care how badly you want to gut each other on Skype, your conduct on the forums, with Jackboot involved or otherwise, is awful and needs to stop." As I said in my first post here: block each other to high heaven on the discord, if you cannot deal with each other's world views. (Which is the case. The failure of both sides to back off as needed over the instant messaging services.)

This, though. This shit is in a league of its own. And it is not a league that I ever want to see here. Consider yourself forum banned for two weeks. Take that time to think, cool off, and collect your damned thoughts. As necessary, you can reach me via Discord or Skype or BYOND.

Complaint resolved and archived.