Player Complaint (Kinda) Bedshaped

[coolbc2000]

BYOND Key: Coolbc2000

Player Byond Key: Bedshaped

Staff involved: Ricky madenson

Reason for complaint: Right, so this is a doozy...

SO this Complaint is surround by the matters of Hostage situations... And how fucked they are right now. Now Bedshaped is the matter of this Complaint but it he/she is not the Meat of it.

So...What did happen then?: Let's start from the beginning.

Mark was setting up being a Traitor. (It was Auto-Traitor). He built a nice little hideout just behind the Garden with false walls and everything! SO it's going towards the end of the shift and Leon Kawalsky (Bedshaped) see's me opening the doors to my hideout and asks what this is. I screamed in LOOC that I might have to kill him/her if they entered the Hideout. I remember reading on the fourms about Hostage taking and how the Hostages should be let some lee way when being taken hostage! So, I stunned her and tried to cuff her! (She had a hardsuit on so it did not go as planned) So, I shook him/her up and he/she sat down in a Chair. Now... There was a locker full of weaponry and Traitor gear, and I had made him/her see I had a gun with me. Now he/she just starts to drill a fucking hole in the wall. I ask what we should do with them, They only responded with one sentence, that went like this. "Please, don't kill me, I won't tell anyone." Now I was down with this and I was going to let her go and relocate my hideout, THEN THE WALL COMES DOWN AND ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE. You see, we both flew into space (They did not have there helmet on before they went into space) SO I quickly grabbed my gun and gadgets and got the fuck out there. Then I see it on the coms. "HELP, MARK SYION TRIED TO KIDNAPP ME."

Now, I knew the round was just over for me right there, I had bombs in place all over the station and I was ready to start my fun. NOW, I am really fucking pissed while writing this, I should have stated this at the start but fuck it. ANYWAY, That's there part of the complaint over, now onto what I really want to talk about.

Hostage taking is just /fucked/. The hostage taker will always loose in the end. Be it, you let the hostage some lee way and they fuck you over, OR the hostage has no fun and you end up shooting them in the face.

There needs to be something more we hostage takers can do! Some kind of mechanic for the Hostages perhaps! Just something!

Approximate Date/Time: 06/07/2016 About 19:30 GMT +1

[Bedshaped]

I already explained to Ricky madenson that if you had taken me prisoner in another location and there was a genuine "I'm about to die" reason for fear RP I would have complied fully. I was wearing a suit, you weren't. I had an RCD and was standing against a wall with vacuum on the other side. My safest avenue to safety was to deconstruct the wall like I did so we'd both get flung out to space. This isn't a case of me trying to disarm you or pulling out a gun and shooting you mid-hostagemode, you left me a big opportunity to do this and I did it.

Some things I believe are different to your telling:

• "Please, don't kill me, I won't tell anyone.": I actually think I just said "I won't tell anyone." - the difference being the fact that I wasn't truly scared of dying
• "and I had made him/her see I had a gun with me": The only thing I remember seeing was an emag in a closet before you closed it shut on me and baton stunned me

Since Ricky already talked to me and decided there wasn't a problem doesn't this apply?:

If the infractions described in the complaint have already been dealt with by a staff member in-game, a player complaint will not change the outcome of this. If you feel that the outcome was unjust, you are encouraged to post in the Staff Complaints section of the forums.

[Dreamix]

Or, you could like, not try to screw over the antag who is trying to create some rp for people?

At least give the antag a chance, instead of just 'deconstructing the wall and flying into space screaming TRAITOR into comms'.

I mean, there's the newly added rule "Do not rules-lawyer your laws as an AI (to a dumb degree). It’s a form of validhunting/powergaming."

The same should apply to every character. "Don't try to do everything to screw over an antag, escape from him, call security on him, or fuck shit up. The antag just wants to make the round interesting, don't make it the old, boring antag-vs-security game of cat and mouse. It's a form of powergaming."

[coolbc2000]

Or, you could like, not try to screw over the antag who is trying to create some rp for people?

At least give the antag a chance, instead of just 'deconstructing the wall and flying into space screaming TRAITOR into comms'.

I mean, there's the newly added rule "Do not rules-lawyer your laws as an AI (to a dumb degree). It’s a form of validhunting/powergaming."

The same should apply to every character. "Don't try to do everything to screw over an antag, escape from him, call security on him, or fuck shit up. The antag just wants to make the round interesting, don't make it the old, boring antag-vs-security game of cat and mouse. It's a form of powergaming."

 

/This/ this game is about having fun there will always be a loosing side and it is normaly the An-tag. But it is what the An-tag does with that Round is what makes it enjoyable for everyone else. You should create some kind of RP and hear the guy out before you YOLO into space.

[Bedshaped]

Or, you could like, not try to screw over the antag who is trying to create some rp for people?

At least give the antag a chance, instead of just 'deconstructing the wall and flying into space screaming TRAITOR into comms'.

 

RP doesn't stop existing when there's no antags around.

It's unlucky that I happened to be in hydroponics and saw a cool hideout on my mining goggles, I genuinely thought it was something engineers built. I bet it would have been cool RP too to have you blow up the station or whatever. However, I'm not going to unrealistically throw my hands up at someone who doesn't even have the foresight to deal with someone finding their hideout.

We've all had times where our great antag plan goes to shit because someone stumbled in on us, we just don't all make complaint threads about it.

[DatBerry]

Or, you could like, not try to screw over the antag who is trying to create some rp for people?

At least give the antag a chance, instead of just 'deconstructing the wall and flying into space screaming TRAITOR into comms'.

 

RP doesn't stop existing when there's no antags around.

It's unlucky that I happened to be in hydroponics and saw a cool hideout on my mining goggles, I genuinely thought it was something engineers built. I bet it would have been cool RP too to have you blow up the station or whatever. However, I'm not going to unrealistically throw my hands up at someone who doesn't even have the foresight to deal with someone finding their hideout.

We've all had times where our great antag plan goes to shit because someone stumbled in on us, we just don't all make complaint threads about it.

 

You could've interacted with them more, threaten them or just wall yourself off and then get out without KILLING them and risking getting lost in space and then shouting the equal of ;HELP JOHN SMITH IS VALID

the fact they didn't just harmbaton you to death meant they were ready to RP with you.

[Bedshaped]

They didn't die. They went off with their weapons and did whatever they did for the rest of the round. And I did interact with them, I just didn't comply with them.

[coolbc2000]

I got /really/ fucking lucky not dying, I had no o2 or suit or fucking anything! I ran straight back inside grabbed my shit, I was just on the edge of hitting pain crit...

[Alberyk]

Don't try to do everything to screw over an antag, escape from him, call security on him, or fuck shit up."

 

Acting in a different manner that your character would do in certain situations, just because you know oocly that someone is an antag, is a form of metagaming. People should be able, within reasonable bounds, to fight back antags, because it does create conflict. I don't know what is so interesting, or fun if most of you believe it is the point of roleplaying, in allowing antags to do anything they wish.

[Dreamix]

However, I'm not going to unrealistically throw my hands up at someone who doesn't even have the foresight to deal with someone finding their hideout.

Acting in a different manner that your character would do in certain situations, just because you know oocly that someone is an antag, is a form of metagaming. People should be able, within reasonable bounds, to fight back antags, because it does create conflict. I don't know what is so interesting, or fun if most of you believe it is the point of roleplaying, in allowing antags to do anything they wish.

I'm just asking, what is wrong with you, people.

I'm not asking you to surrender completely and go AFK for the rest of the round to "let the antag do antaggy things". What the fuck.

I'm asking you to give the antag a chance, and don't go full ";HELP JOHN SMITH IS VALID" because "my characturs wouldn't want to die, and don't want no meta plz" (yet, I see people memeing shit IC).

You just have to find the equilibrium, the balance between these two, where people oppose the antag, but don't breach walls, disarm-spam and scream into their radios the moment they see a slight sign of antagonistic action.

And I'm not even going to start on the "acting in a different manner that your character would do in certain situations". Because to know "what would the character do", you actually need to be that particular character. And most sane characters on-station would probably have mixed feelings of confusion and shock if something out-of-ordinary happened to them, asking first, acting later. Because, you know, malfunctioning AI's, hostage taking, mercenary raids, all of this doesn't happen every shift.

[Bedshaped]

I engaged with Syion when he stunned me and asked me to take off my hardsuit. But it's not like my character ever saw anything other than a stun baton. So when someone with nothing but a stun baton orders you to do something, I'm not going to act terrified for my life or paralysed with fear. If it was something that could actually make me scared for my life (that doesn't include harmbatoning because normal people don't have the possibility of being bludgeoned to death by a blunt object in their typical thought patterns) like a knife or a gun then I would have complied fully like I explained to Ricky.

I also feel the need to keep posting this:

If the infractions described in the complaint have already been dealt with by a staff member in-game, a player complaint will not change the outcome of this. If you feel that the outcome was unjust, you are encouraged to post in the Staff Complaints section of the forums.

[Guest]

Defending yourself is not a crime. Taking actions to preserve your own life and disable an attacker to prevent them from doing more harm is not unreasonable.

[Ricky_the_banshee]

Defending yourself is not a crime. Taking actions to preserve your own life and disable an attacker to prevent them from doing more harm is not unreasonable.

 

This is the prime example as to what I've based my final decision on. Like it or not, there is a thing such as the fight-or-flight mechanism. Whereas flight OR surrender becomes the most chosen option when things seem less in their favour and FIGHT when ,of course, the opposite.

Now let's apply this logic to the situation where in Bedshaped's character was when he found that hideout, including the officer and ends up getting stunned by mentioned officer. Despite this officer "helping" him up, he was unsure of what was next and his chances were 50-50 as to if he would end up dead or not. Luckily, armor and the complaintant being distracted/not holding them at gunpoint he took his chance to ESCAPE. Going for the option "meh, I'll just sit here and fuck it" when you literally have the opportunity to get out there in a short span of time isn't only unrealistic, but also just turning antag into easy mode.

Providing antagonists the option to complete a certain task is fine, to a degree. Don't assume that everybody is willingfully to cooperate when they are put in a potentionally hazardous situation such as a kidnapping or hostage taking, because That doesn't make sense, period. People are people and they don't like being held captive. His "hostagee" was given the opportunity to escape, and they did. Of course it is to expect that they WILL notify security or call for help.

This is not a case of a hostagee doing it wrong. This is a case of a hostage taker playing it wrong and being ill-prepared.

[Shadow]

This was handled on the server already. Bedshaped handled this situation well.

There won't be any punishments, etc.

Locking and archiving this in 24 hours unless anyone has an objection.

[Shadow]

Locking and archiving.