Tajaran Fluff Myth Debunking or something

[hivefleetchicken]

Hi I'm Hivefleetchicken, and regretfully I'm in control of the Tajaran race, a race that I despise almost as much as the Diona.

I would glass Adhomai if I could. But fortunately for the Taj players, I'm not here to doom the race, I'm here to try my best to save it! That involves me making the race something that can be taken seriously like the other races, and the Taj playerbase is famously not very cooperative with that goal.

In my time as loremaster I've done a lot of work in trying to set up a uniform method of playing the Taj like the other races have, but a lot of people seem to disagree with it, and come up with their own fluff seemingly out of nowhere. So I'm gonna' go through this thread and explain why a lot of the Taj people see these days just don't work or conflict with the lore.

I have no format set up for this thread so warning, it's gonna' be really messy and sloppy. Good luck reading through everything without going cross-eyed.

 

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Myth 1: There is no set personality for the Tajaran race/Tajara are as diverse as humans.

When's the last time you've seen a bashful Unathi who thinks honor is overrated and says "okies" in confirmation to everything? When's the last time you've seen a skrell who curses at everyone and calls them "fuckin racists" openly while getting angry and threatening to break skulls? These are aliens, and they have their own tropes. The way we design alien personalities in ss13 is:

-We take a human personality trait, or trope.

-We ramp it up to 11.

-We make an entire culture revolving around this one trope or personality trait.

Unathi players, Skrell players, Vaurca players, Diona players, they're all really good at sticking to their tropes. You'll rarely see an Unathi who isn't totally absorbed in honor and tradition. You'll rarely see a Skrell player who cries and attacks people out of anger. But you'll always see two cats who act completely opposite of one another on station. This is because of the myth that Tajara are super diverse and can have any personality!

Wrong.

The common Tajaran personality is one I'd best describe as Chummy commies, view-able here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChummyCommies

They all say comrade to one another, they all have strong facial hair and 1940s Russian Propaganda mannerisms. They all love the industry and the glory of the motherland. Some act a bit more Middle Eastern and call one another brother (especially in the ALA). This is the defined personality for the race. So why do so few people want to follow it? Well, because a lot of the players think that Tajara act exactly like humans and are just humans in cat form (I blame the furries).

You might want to say "But Hive! This is cruel! You can't make me change my fursona to a different personality just because of your lore!" And to that, I say:

Get out. This is an independent race from Aurora Station. This race is not a fursona-conversion tool. This is a unique alien kind with its own history and culture and people. Your fursona is not welcome here. Make a character that's Tajaran. Don't make a Tajara that's your character. Simple. If you don't like the way the race is portrayed, just don't play it. It has nothing to do with your fursona and thus you shouldn't feel threatened by the personality of the race and the personality of your fursona clashing. Just don't play the stupid fursona then.

 

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Myth 2: Hyperactive cats are normal and to be tolerated.

There are a lot of things wrong with the Tajaran playerbase right now. We used to have problems with promiscuous cats who were fucking in closets and ignoring the civil war. Now we have something that I get equal complaints about, and that's obnoxious cats. I've been loremaster for a good amount of time now, long enough for me to track down every last member of this really annoying demographic. The following acts:

-Snickering excessively like a snarky fuck

-Saying "Okies" or anything like a 10 year old in Siik'mas or Tau Ceti Basic

-*Qwag (a verb that triggers a constant loop of the tail swishing graphic)

-Making puns 24/7 to the point of misuse of comms

-Being obnoxious, hyperactive, rude or aggressive to races other than Tajara

Are all things that are telltale signs that you're being an annoying cat. While these acts are not criminally sexual and anything I'd remove a whitelist or character over, they are ALL signs of social humanization and puts you on tier as a cat with down's syndrome to normal Tajara. Jumping up and down and swishing your tail is not normal for a 20-something year old cat. It's about like that kid on the playground who is always making screaming noises and putting things up his nose, except you're doing it as a full grown adult and at work. It's embarrassing to other cats and you should be getting shunned for it. Life as a cat is cruel and cats are really judging and racist. That's just the way they are, man.

 

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Myth 3: Dick scorpions

They're real, get used to it dude

 

See you on the other side, brothers!

For the Hadii! For victory!

[NebulaFlare]

Alright, I'm going to do it. No one is going to come out and say it so I'm going to take the bullet.

First off, I am very, highly certain most of the Tajaran community get the idea that they are aliens with fur, not furries. I don't have anything against furries, their quirks are their quirks. I don't judge, and honestly, I don't care. And in my time of playing, I've seen only one or two Tajara who was overly sexual. Just two at max. And I haven't seen those characters since forever.

You're degrading the race itself by consistently pairing it with furries. Maybe I'm blind to the furry community but I myself don't see any furry behavior. At all. I'm either blind or it's not there. Whitelist players get it - they're aliens. There's likely more furry strife coming from humans than from Tajarans.

 

That involves me making the race something that can be taken seriously like the other races, and the Taj playerbase is famously not very cooperative with that goal.

In my time as loremaster I've done a lot of work in trying to set up a uniform method of playing the Taj like the other races have, but a lot of people seem to disagree with it, and come up with their own fluff seemingly out of nowhere. So I'm gonna' go through this thread and explain why a lot of the Taj people see these days just don't work or conflict with the lore.

 

It's not because we're coming up with our own fluff and going 'screw lore I'll play what I want'. No. It's because the Tajaran species has been stuffed into a teeny-tiny, strained little box of rules and regulations with no room for our characters to grow or interact. Lore is supposed to be expanded on, built up, not downsized and marginalized. Not only that, but a lot of Tajaran characters were developed much earlier before current Lore, and those characters are based off that early lore. Lore is literally being forced upon these already-constructed characters. It's being shoved down our throats in a, 'do it or else' threat. These characters are being stifled and slowly killed.

I will not name names, but there are people literally afraid to play Tajara because they don't want to see their whitelist stripped.

 

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Myth 1: There is no set personality for the Tajaran race/Tajara are as diverse as humans.

When's the last time you've seen a bashful Unathi who thinks honor is overrated and says "okies" in confirmation to everything? When's the last time you've seen a skrell who curses at everyone and calls them "fuckin racists" openly while getting angry and threatening to break skulls? These are aliens, and they have their own tropes. The way we design alien personalities in ss13 is:

-We take a human personality trait, or trope.

-We ramp it up to 11.

-We make an entire culture revolving around this one trope or personality trait.

Unathi players, Skrell players, Vaurca players, Diona players, they're all really good at sticking to their tropes. You'll rarely see an Unathi who isn't totally absorbed in honor and tradition. You'll rarely see a Skrell player who cries and attacks people out of anger. But you'll always see two cats who act completely opposite of one another on station. This is because of the myth that Tajara are super diverse and can have any personality!

Wrong.

The common Tajaran personality is one I'd best describe as Chummy commies, view-able here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChummyCommies

They all say comrade to one another, they all have strong facial hair and 1940s Russian Propaganda mannerisms. They all love the industry and the glory of the motherland. Some act a bit more Middle Eastern and call one another brother (especially in the ALA). This is the defined personality for the race. So why do so few people want to follow it? Well, because a lot of the players think that Tajara act exactly like humans and are just humans in cat form (I blame the furries).

 

I disagree. Again, what the heck do you got against furries?

Let me tell you what I see. I see an Alien Race that is torn from their homeland and trying to find a niche in this strange human-controlled universe. A race who's had every opportunity of prosperity cruelly ripped away from them, be it by their own people or the human supremacy. Their history is embarrassingly tarnished, but yet, they've grown from that and become a resilient people. I see a race that has no other choice but to stand together through the thick and thin, brothers and sisters, kin, and become tight-knitted for the sake of survival. I see a race that must scour whatever meager culture they have left. I see a race that was taken advantage of, time and time again, glowered and mocked by other races, and must make a desperate stand for acceptance.

Is...is that right? Isn't that what the Tajara is all about? A race of resiliant people who have been trashed through mud and must find a place in this unforgiving galaxy? Because that is what I see the Tajaran as. Every antic, every action, every thought and word - my skeptical rose-tinted glasses perceive that when I interact with the players

 

You might want to say "But Hive! This is cruel! You can't make me change my fursona to a different personality just because of your lore!" And to that, I say:

Get out. This is an independent race from Aurora Station. This race is not a fursona-conversion tool. This is a unique alien kind with its own history and culture and people. Your fursona is not welcome here. Make a character that's Tajaran. Don't make a Tajara that's your character. Simple. If you don't like the way the race is portrayed, just don't play it. It has nothing to do with your fursona and thus you shouldn't feel threatened by the personality of the race and the personality of your fursona clashing. Just don't play the stupid fursona then.

 

Again with the furries...my gosh. Lay off. I must be very blind, because I don't see any human cat furries.

 

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Myth 2: Hyperactive cats are normal and to be tolerated.

There are a lot of things wrong with the Tajaran playerbase right now. We used to have problems with promiscuous cats who were fucking in closets and ignoring the civil war. Now we have something that I get equal complaints about, and that's obnoxious cats. I've been loremaster for a good amount of time now, long enough for me to track down every last member of this really annoying demographic. The following acts:

-Snickering excessively like a snarky fuck

-Saying "Okies" or anything like a 10 year old in Siik'mas or Tau Ceti Basic

-*Qwag (a verb that triggers a constant loop of the tail swishing graphic)

-Making puns 24/7 to the point of misuse of comms

-Being obnoxious, hyperactive, rude or aggressive to races other than Tajara

Are all things that are telltale signs that you're being an annoying cat. While these acts are not criminally sexual and anything I'd remove a whitelist or character over, they are ALL signs of social humanization and puts you on tier as a cat with down's syndrome to normal Tajara. Jumping up and down and swishing your tail is not normal for a 20-something year old cat. It's about like that kid on the playground who is always making screaming noises and putting things up his nose, except you're doing it as a full grown adult and at work. It's embarrassing to other cats and you should be getting shunned for it. Life as a cat is cruel and cats are really judging and racist. That's just the way they are, man.

 

You know what? This is Karima. This is Kyyir'ry'avii 'Karima' Ille'nagri Al'Ghul-Mo'Taki. Minus the pun making and the 'okies'...this is her.

One of my prized characters. One of my oldest, most developed characters. My character who matured and grew over the many years and achieved her goal of becoming a well-respected researcher. Someone who went from a timid, terrified lab assistant to a proud, assertive scientist. Someone who's interacted with various crewmembers, made close alliances, and given the gracious opportunity to expand in their stories as well. Someone who tends to twitch her ears a lot because _that's tajaran body language_.

She's fucking hyper.

She's not being a furry, she's being Tajaran. She's twitching her tail when she gets excited at making a new discovery. She gets happy when she meets friends. She's folding her ears back when she's peeved because she struggles with the Tau Ceti Basic. Let her wag her tail because she's got a bubbly personality. And she gets caught singing on the comms because she likes to sing in her lab with her Tajaran cultural love for music which accidentally leaks over into comms.

And on another note.

Tajarans are self-centered rebels because they've been built up that way from their history. They have to make their own stand. They're gonna sneer, they're gonna spit, and they're gonna get defensive. Tell me, what other logical actions would they be doing? They went through a war, and now they're going through another. They're not pushovers.

I'm not defending criminal behavior - I'm pointing out the flaw in this logic. Unless every single last one is supposed to go, 'Oooooooh sorrrrrry...ourrrr bad, we won't speak up forrr ourrrselves. We'll just submit and be goooood serrrrvants to the nice humans..." I'm...pretty sure they won't do that. A human tells a Taj to 'know their place' and there will be a backlash. Claws? No, doesn't need to come to claws. I will give that much. That's assault with a deadly weapon. Spew fighting words? Demand respect? Well...yes?

Unless that's supposedly all wrong.

Third point: most of our characters were built up from old lore - can't expect everyone to sweep that all under the rug and start fresh. that's just not possible. Like I said, lore is meant to be expanded on, not shrunken down.

Some points:

-Tajarans don't support homosexuality. Maybe this is something tied to furries..............again.............but I explicitly remember that in the past, Tajarans didn't give a shit if someone was gay or not. Just shrug it off and say, 'whatever'. And now there's this 180 degree turn of no it's all bad. People don't change overnight. My only explanation is that the republic wants to stamp this out for whatever reason, or needs an excuse for cheap labor in their rehab camps.

-Racism. Tajarans used to be so excepting of the three big races - Hharar, M'Sai, and Zhan. Hharar were the common majority, with some alcoves of intelligent people, M'Sai were the resilient warriors, and Zhan were the strong backbones of society. And t hey all loved each other and worked together as kin to overthrow the evil N'jarir. So everyone hates those self-centered noble bitches who CLEARLY deserve their place above in society. But now the tables are flipped again and they're supposed to start being racist to each and every other race, starting with the Zhan. After being such a support group for each other. Yeaaaaah...unless this is more communism propaganda, it...doesn't quite fit. And they're not supposed to be racist against humans. Okay. Makes perfect sense.

And lastly...get off your high horse. Yes, you're loremaster, but please...the way you project yourself, it's annoying. I don't want to sound condescending or mean, and with utmost sincerity....please. We respect the fact you put time, dedication, and effort in the Tajaran Lore, but do you really have to go about holding the whitelists hostage just because a Tajara sneezed? I'm serious. That's basically what's going on right now.

I really love the Tajaran race. I like their steampunk-esqe modern culture, how it clashes with sci-fi space, their unique history, their four races, and their drive to be respected. But they've been broken up so much, I just don't know.

[SierraKomodo]

I think Nebula covered quite a bit of my own thoughts on this. But, I just want to add that I'm one of those people who's basically stopped playing my Tajara except on rare occasions because I'm, quite frankly, concerned of either A: Being told my character's been permanently shipped off to the gulag, or B: Having my whitelist revoked. Every single one of my characters has at least one of the traits you consistantly name as being bad.

Ziva's supposed to be a light-hearted, friendly, open-minded sort of character.

Rasine's supposed to be a moody, self-sufficient, crippled loner that angers easily but has been undergoing anger management (with some difficulties). She even has a history/backstory that tells /why/ she's like this.

Sai'da's supposed to be a character raised on Biesel, in the Little Adhomai district where it's basically been described as Space Detroit, and is supposed to have an attitude as a result.

I had to leave a round while playing Ziva last night because I couldn't comfortably portray her friendliness or open-mindedness without being worried about getting a PM from Hive. I've outright stopped playing Rasine, Sai'da, and D'ar'rhe because of similar concerns. Miraj, Azaela, and Mimirkra I've stopped playing because the lore's changed so much regarding inter-Tajara racism that their backstories from Adhomai just don't seem to fit anymore.

I'm basically at a point here where I'm not comfortable playing any of my tajara characters, even the one that I'd been developing for over a year on Aurora, who was my whitelist character and everyone enjoyed interacting with.

Hell, I had to completely retcon and changedefining traits about Rasine's past and personality just to be able to play her again, and now things have gotten more strict. Couple that with the fact you're, quite literally, coming on station ICly just to stalk tajara players and find IC reasons to ship those characters off to the mines doesn't help matters much.

P.S.: Going to add in here that while yes, I am a furry, that has little influence in any of my characters. The closest thing to a 'self insert/personafied' character I played was a human, Sairis Helosi.

[Skull132]

Imma sidestep the discussion in earnest, because I don't play enough to make a call on whether or not these points are valid.

One thing I would like to direct your attention to, however, is how we communicate. Or in this case, how we are literally trying anything but direct communication. If there's an issue with a specific player's conduct as Tajaran, then that player should be sidelined for a few and the problem discussed. If possible, a solution reached and agreed upon. Right now, we've tried the IC NKVD/Stasi approach, and now we're doing the "general, point fingers at everyone without committing to calling out individuals," spiel. Both of which are great for raising an amazing bruahaha and racket, but not actually solving the issues.

Seriously, grab the dudes who are causing issues and have a chat with them. Get their side of the picture, give them yours, see if you can come to an agreeable solution.

[Bedshaped]

Myth 3: Dick scorpions

They're real, get used to it dude

 

[hivefleetchicken]

This post utterly broke

Edited August 28, 2016 by Guest

[hivefleetchicken]

Alright, I'm going to do it. No one is going to come out and say it so I'm going to take the bullet.

First off, I am very, highly certain most of the Tajaran community get the idea that they are aliens with fur, not furries. I don't have anything against furries, their quirks are their quirks. I don't judge, and honestly, I don't care. And in my time of playing, I've seen only one or two Tajara who was overly sexual. Just two at max. And I haven't seen those characters since forever.

 

Well then you're missing out on some hilarious logs from just last night.

Tajara are free to be whatever they want in private. It's the doing disgusting shit in public and over comms that puts them in danger.

 

You're degrading the race itself by consistently pairing it with furries. Maybe I'm blind to the furry community but I myself don't see any furry behavior. At all. I'm either blind or it's not there. Whitelist players get it - they're aliens. There's likely more furry strife coming from humans than from Tajarans.

 

That involves me making the race something that can be taken seriously like the other races, and the Taj playerbase is famously not very cooperative with that goal.

In my time as loremaster I've done a lot of work in trying to set up a uniform method of playing the Taj like the other races have, but a lot of people seem to disagree with it, and come up with their own fluff seemingly out of nowhere. So I'm gonna' go through this thread and explain why a lot of the Taj people see these days just don't work or conflict with the lore.

 

It's not because we're coming up with our own fluff and going 'screw lore I'll play what I want'. No. It's because the Tajaran species has been stuffed into a teeny-tiny, strained little box of rules and regulations with no room for our characters to grow or interact. Lore is supposed to be expanded on, built up, not downsized and marginalized. Not only that, but a lot of Tajaran characters were developed much earlier before current Lore, and those characters are based off that early lore. Lore is literally being forced upon these already-constructed characters. It's being shoved down our throats in a, 'do it or else' threat. These characters are being stifled and slowly killed.

 

The Tajaran race literally has the loosest character design net of the Whitelists besides the IPCs. Can you really tell me that Tajara have less personality diversity than Diona? What about Skrell? The Tajara have SO MUCH room. You shouldn't feel threatened in the slightest, anyways. I just think hyperactive cats are just that - hyperactive. They won't get killed for it, by God, it's just that if you play a hyperactive character be ready to get called autistic by another cat. I think you can remember what the other cats had to say when you were singing over the radio. Same thing in person.

 

I will not name names, but there are people literally afraid to play Tajara because they don't want to see their whitelist stripped.

 

Well why are they afraid? I've never stripped a whitelist.

None of the things I've stated above are things that I'd remove a whitelist over. I just want Taj players to work towards a common goal of setting a flavor for the race (that agrees with your idea below) instead of being overly cliquey humans in cat form.

What I really see are players who use their whitelist for very little more than relationship/erotic RP. I want people to feel beaten because of racism and threatened because of the loss of culture. But what does singing over comms add to that narrative?

 

Myth 1: There is no set personality for the Tajaran race/Tajara are as diverse as humans.

When's the last time you've seen a bashful Unathi who thinks honor is overrated and says "okies" in confirmation to everything? When's the last time you've seen a skrell who curses at everyone and calls them "fuckin racists" openly while getting angry and threatening to break skulls? These are aliens, and they have their own tropes. The way we design alien personalities in ss13 is:

-We take a human personality trait, or trope.

-We ramp it up to 11.

-We make an entire culture revolving around this one trope or personality trait.

Unathi players, Skrell players, Vaurca players, Diona players, they're all really good at sticking to their tropes. You'll rarely see an Unathi who isn't totally absorbed in honor and tradition. You'll rarely see a Skrell player who cries and attacks people out of anger. But you'll always see two cats who act completely opposite of one another on station. This is because of the myth that Tajara are super diverse and can have any personality!

Wrong.

The common Tajaran personality is one I'd best describe as Chummy commies, view-able here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChummyCommies

They all say comrade to one another, they all have strong facial hair and 1940s Russian Propaganda mannerisms. They all love the industry and the glory of the motherland. Some act a bit more Middle Eastern and call one another brother (especially in the ALA). This is the defined personality for the race. So why do so few people want to follow it? Well, because a lot of the players think that Tajara act exactly like humans and are just humans in cat form (I blame the furries).

 

I disagree. Again, what the heck do you got against furries?

 

Many of them feel like they have no business in the below narrative, and instead ignore it entirely to romance.

 

Let me tell you what I see. I see an Alien Race that is torn from their homeland and trying to find a niche in this strange human-controlled universe. A race who's had every opportunity of prosperity cruelly ripped away from them, be it by their own people or the human supremacy. Their history is embarrassingly tarnished, but yet, they've grown from that and become a resilient people. I see a race that has no other choice but to stand together through the thick and thin, brothers and sisters, kin, and become tight-knitted for the sake of survival. I see a race that must scour whatever meager culture they have left. I see a race that was taken advantage of, time and time again, glowered and mocked by other races, and must make a desperate stand for acceptance.

 

Yep.

 

Is...is that right? Isn't that what the Tajara is all about? A race of resiliant people who have been trashed through mud and must find a place in this unforgiving galaxy? Because that is what I see the Tajaran as. Every antic, every action, every thought and word - my skeptical rose-tinted glasses perceive that when I interact with the players

 

That's very charming, because I completely agree and I've been trying to convey that in the race for so long. However my interactions and observations as a ghost, and even records from other players convey something different.

 

You might want to say "But Hive! This is cruel! You can't make me change my fursona to a different personality just because of your lore!" And to that' date=' I say:

Get out. This is an independent race from Aurora Station. This race is not a fursona-conversion tool. This is a unique alien kind with its own history and culture and people. Your fursona is not welcome here. Make a character that's Tajaran. Don't make a Tajara that's your character. Simple. If you don't like the way the race is portrayed, just don't play it. It has nothing to do with your fursona and thus you shouldn't feel threatened by the personality of the race and the personality of your fursona clashing. Just don't play the stupid fursona then.[/quote']

 

Again with the furries...my gosh. Lay off. I must be very blind, because I don't see any human cat furries.

 

I get lots of logs. I don't wanna talk about it.

 

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Myth 2: Hyperactive cats are normal and to be tolerated.

There are a lot of things wrong with the Tajaran playerbase right now. We used to have problems with promiscuous cats who were fucking in closets and ignoring the civil war. Now we have something that I get equal complaints about' date=' and that's [b']obnoxious cats[/b]. I've been loremaster for a good amount of time now, long enough for me to track down every last member of this really annoying demographic. The following acts:

-Snickering excessively like a snarky fuck

-Saying "Okies" or anything like a 10 year old in Siik'mas or Tau Ceti Basic

-*Qwag (a verb that triggers a constant loop of the tail swishing graphic)

-Making puns 24/7 to the point of misuse of comms

-Being obnoxious, hyperactive, rude or aggressive to races other than Tajara

Are all things that are telltale signs that you're being an lannoying cat. While these acts are not criminally sexual and anything I'd remove a whitelist or character over, they are ALL signs of social humanization and puts you on tier as a cat with down's syndrome to normal Tajara. Jumping up and down and swishing your tail is not normal for a 20-something year old cat. It's about like that kid on the playground who is always making screaming noises and putting things up his nose, except you're doing it as a full grown adult and at work. It's embarrassing to other cats and you should be getting shunned for it. Life as a cat is cruel and cats are really judging and racist. That's just the way they are, man.

 

You know what? This is Karima. This is Kyyir'ry'avii 'Karima' Ille'nagri Al'Ghul-Mo'Taki. Minus the pun making and the 'okies'...this is her.

 

I didn't know she said Okies. Holy cow.

 

One of my prized characters. One of my oldest, most developed characters. My character who matured and grew over the many years and achieved her goal of becoming a well-respected researcher. Someone who went from a timid, terrified lab assistant to a proud, assertive scientist. Someone who's interacted with various crewmembers, made close alliances, and given the gracious opportunity to expand in their stories as well. Someone who tends to twitch her ears a lot because _that's tajaran body language_.

 

That's fine, that's all fine. The singing over comms is fine. The qwag and screaming is fine. It's ALL fine and you're in no threat from playing her ten times more obnoxious.

What I was trying to convey that you're in threat of, is bullying from other cats for being so obnoxious. That's all.

 

She's fucking hyper.

She's not being a furry, she's being Tajaran. She's twitching her tail when she gets excited at making a new discovery. She gets happy when she meets friends. She's folding her ears back when she's peeved because she struggles with the Tau Ceti Basic. Let her wag her tail because she's got a bubbly personality. And she gets caught singing on the comms because she likes to sing in her lab with her Tajaran cultural love for music which accidentally leaks over into comms.

 

All A-okay with me. Just be careful of getting slapped upside the head with a newspaper for singing over comms. Because it's happened before and will happen again. Me being loremaster has nothing to do with it, no matter how many people complain about the obnoxious cat singing and purposefully pressing on her headset mic to annoy everyone.

 

And on another note.

Tajarans are self-centered rebels because they've been built up that way from their history. They have to make their own stand. They're gonna sneer, they're gonna spit, and they're gonna get defensive. Tell me, what other logical actions would they be doing? They went through a war, and now they're going through another. They're not pushovers.

 

Exactly! See, we're in agreement. The other week a human was threatening a cat if his fur was flammable. The cat said "whatever, mister", clawed him across the face, and kicked him out of the department. I was fine with it.

Then the week after an Unathi joined the ship and a Tajara said "Ew, go home stupid unathi".

Two different examples. Two different reactions from me.

 

I'm not defending criminal behavior - I'm pointing out the flaw in this logic. Unless every single last one is supposed to go, 'Oooooooh sorrrrrry...ourrrr bad, we won't speak up forrr ourrrselves. We'll just submit and be goooood serrrrvants to the nice humans..." I'm...pretty sure they won't do that. A human tells a Taj to 'know their place' and there will be a backlash. Claws? No, doesn't need to come to claws. I will give that much. That's assault with a deadly weapon. Spew fighting words? Demand respect? Well...yes?

Already explained this is moot, claw them if they're being absolute assholes, but don't be racist towards humans (to their faces), but additionally I might add that the Tajara were designed from the start of bay to be cheap servants who didn't question orders or the humans openly.

 

Unless that's supposedly all wrong.

Third point: most of our characters were built up from old lore - can't expect everyone to sweep that all under the rug and start fresh. that's just not possible. Like I said, lore is meant to be expanded on, not shrunken down.

 

I agree. However, many people believe the lore right now is TOO expansive. I kind of have to agree considering the race has the largest white listed race net, and uses IC punishment after extensive EXTENSIVE lore breaking so that no one loses a whitelist ever.

 

Some points:

-Tajarans don't support homosexuality. Maybe this is something tied to furries..............again.............but I explicitly remember that in the past, Tajarans didn't give a shit if someone was gay or not. Just shrug it off and say, 'whatever'. And now there's this 180 degree turn of no it's all bad. People don't change overnight. My only explanation is that the republic wants to stamp this out for whatever reason, or needs an excuse for cheap labor in their rehab camps.

 

This was already a thing when I got forced to take the Taj race. I merely enforce it as law now. Cats can be homo as fuck in the privacy of wherever. It's only "SHE LOVES EATIG PUSSY" on general comms and the like that will catch my attention, and the many eyes of the Hadii.

 

-Racism. Tajarans used to be so excepting of the three big races - Hharar, M'Sai, and Zhan. Hharar were the common majority, with some alcoves of intelligent people, M'Sai were the resilient warriors, and Zhan were the strong backbones of society. And t hey all loved each other and worked together as kin to overthrow the evil N'jarir. So everyone hates those self-centered noble bitches who CLEARLY deserve their place above in society. But now the tables are flipped again and they're supposed to start being racist to each and every other race, starting with the Zhan. After being such a support group for each other. Yeaaaaah...unless this is more communism propaganda, it...doesn't quite fit. And they're not supposed to be racist against humans. Okay. Makes perfect sense.

 

Again, not my choice to dislike the Zhan. It was already a thing when I got pushed onto the platter. None of my characters are racist against Zhan despite them obviously being dirty fucking criminals (just look at engineering some time).

 

And lastly...get off your high horse. Yes, you're loremaster, but please...the way you project yourself, it's annoying. I don't want to sound condescending or mean, and with utmost sincerity....please. We respect the fact you put time, dedication, and effort in the Tajaran Lore, but do you really have to go about holding the whitelists hostage just because a Tajara sneezed? I'm serious. That's basically what's going on right now.

 

It's really not. No one has lost a single character yet. No one should feel afraid unless their character is literally just that bad. Myth three was going to be me explaining that you can be whatever you want in private as a Taj, but I forgot because it was like 4am and I was half dreaming. It's spouting shit over comms or in public that's really dirty or lore breaking that gets you in trouble.

 

I really love the Tajaran race. I like their steampunk-esqe modern culture, how it clashes with sci-fi space, their unique history, their four races, and their drive to be respected. But they've been broken up so much, I just don't know.

 

I just can't agree with you on the broken up part. Sorry if you feel that way. There's a ton of wiggle room still - take a look at the other alien races lmao these guys are all one personality type - and you should only feel asphyxiated in that Karima's culture is being chipped away more and more every day, comrade.

[hivefleetchicken]

I think Nebula covered quite a bit of my own thoughts on this. But, I just want to add that I'm one of those people who's basically stopped playing my Tajara except on rare occasions because I'm, quite frankly, concerned of either A: Being told my character's been permanently shipped off to the gulag, or B: Having my whitelist revoked. Every single one of my characters has at least one of the traits you consistantly name as being bad.

 

Well, you don't have to change them or stop playing them. Just tone it down, or if you think it's toned down enough, play them freely. And go hog wild when you're not on comms or in the middle of 20 people.

 

Ziva's supposed to be a light-hearted, friendly, open-minded sort of character.

Rasine's supposed to be a moody, self-sufficient, crippled loner that angers easily but has been undergoing anger management (with some difficulties). She even has a history/backstory that tells /why/ she's like this.

Sai'da's supposed to be a character raised on Biesel, in the Little Adhomai district where it's basically been described as Space Detroit, and is supposed to have an attitude as a result.

I see no problems with these characters. Fighting humans in retaliation is something I tolerate these days. But to be honest I've seen a surprising amount of open Taj racism against humans as opposed to humans against cats. Yes, there's the occasional burn the catbeast and all ICly, but that's about it.

 

I had to leave a round while playing Ziva last night because I couldn't comfortably portray her friendliness or open-mindedness without being worried about getting a PM from Hive. I've outright stopped playing Rasine, Sai'da, and D'ar'rhe because of similar concerns. Miraj, Azaela, and Mimirkra I've stopped playing because the lore's changed so much regarding inter-Tajara racism that their backstories from Adhomai just don't seem to fit anymore.

 

The backstory of Adhomai has always been grimdark. It's a snowy, hellish world that's been locked in civil war for almost its entire (recorded) history.

This race has ALWAYS been a race of unending war and genocidal tendencies. I've just made the government more overstepping and strangleholdish to portray that realistically.

What I don't see is Tajaran characters reacting to the strengthened policies on Adhomai by changing their behavior in public or acting somewhat angry at the Republic. What I see is players simply refusing to play their nerd cat girls because other cats who are fresh out of a war zone find it disgusting to see someone so self-absorbed.

 

I'm basically at a point here where I'm not comfortable playing any of my tajara characters, even the one that I'd been developing for over a year on Aurora, who was my whitelist character and everyone enjoyed interacting with.

 

If everyone enjoyed it, why don't you keep playing it? You do realize you're one of the better taj players, right?

 

Hell, I had to completely retcon and changedefining traits about Rasine's past and personality just to be able to play her again, and now things have gotten more strict. Couple that with the fact you're, quite literally, coming on station ICly just to stalk tajara players and find IC reasons to ship those characters off to the mines doesn't help matters much.

Rasine can be whatever she wants in private, I don't care so long as it doesn't become a scene. That's the point - keep your weird stuff to yourself and whoever else you really want to know. The only cats that ever get yelled at for being promiscuous are the ones I always hear about spouting over comms and boasting about their sexual endeavors on the escape shuttle.

I don't find logs. Regular taj players see something that disgusts them and they send it to me.

 

P.S.: Going to add in here that while yes, I am a furry, that has little influence in any of my characters. The closest thing to a 'self insert/personafied' character I played was a human, Sairis Helosi.

 

owo what's this??

[Guest]

Let's keep in mind a couple facts here.

1.) Sierra, Nebula, neither of you are at immediate risk for whitelist removal, nor are there any plans on the end of the lore team to start skimming over current whitelistees in some half-baked plot to hit the NUKE button to wipe the whole slate clean. Hive has been tracking specific individuals who have been violating chief tenets of Tajaran behavior and breaking RP to an awful extent. I've seen these screenshots of one particular individual, I will confirm they exist, and that it presents a rather large problem and risk as it's upturned. Rest assured, the entities in the midst of the reticle of an Trijicon ACOG 4x are ones that went beyond the line of acceptability, even for human characters much of the same in characteristics. There is no OOC final solution for Tajaran whitelistees, this is mostly going to be carried out in IC. Even then, not a lot of folks are at risk.

2.) None of you can speak for the whole of the Tajaran playerbase, do not even try. You are still one person with an understanding of your own context, and much less when trying to comprehend the experiences of others. An unfortunate mistake in regards to developing the Tajaran race was allowing the range of character traits to be applied to Taj characters to be as liberal and wide of a spread as possible. This effectively makes them no more different than humans, which mandated lore changes to better preserve the remaining integrity of the Tajaran userbase wanting to still preserve the sanctity and quality of decent roleplay.

There exists a silent majority that does not want to outright stick their neck out and speak out about this shit, as they do not wish to have their carotid sliced or bitten open by internet keyboard warrior-cats. We've been through this song and dance before, we would rather avoid a cataclysmic meltdown from the community. Whether they identify as a furry or not, I don't think anyone gives a damn about that point. RP is important to us all as it is the main goal of playing on this server for.

3.) Tajaran lore is meant to be inclusive as possible, but the majority of Tajaran whitelist holders act in such ways that are exclusive to their own personal inner circle and constantly shutting out whom they perceive as outsiders. The clique mentality, I'll say that buzzphrase one more time if I have to so it's easily identifiable as to what it is.

Other than that, I humbly invite participants with stake in this subject to come up with a better solution than the one Jackboot, Hivefleet and co advisors have been cooking up in relation to this subject.

I will lastly iterate just to reflect the above statements in addition to discussions with hive has produced, you would know beforehand if you were at full risk of losing your whitelist or having your character becoming perma-dead and unplayable. I don't think anyone on the lore team would hide it from you.

Tone it down now on all accounts, loves?

[Skull132]

I will lastly iterate, you would know if you were at full risk of losing your whitelist. I don't think anyone on the lore team would hide it from you.

 

Except. Would they? As someone with access to staff channels, ya, sure, you can say that they would. But lemme paint this from the perspective of a random player.

Wake up one day, open inbox, see this beauty lying there. Your next step is to try to figure out what the fuck is going on, and what the fuck you missed. Well, hey, two days later an explanation is posted here. And as far as I've been told, some personal inquiries into this matter have been ignored. The sum of all of this is a viewpoint whereby the Lore Master just does shit first, and thinks about communicating it later. Which is a very basic, very fundamental violation of trust that needs to exist between the playerbase and the admins.

Communication, communication, communication.

Right now, we've been lacking in that department.

[Guest]

Saddening to see that, it adds a lot of perspective, unfortunate as it might be, it's nice to know what's actually going on.

I guess I'm repeating myself in regards to only being able to speak for yourself, aye?

I hate making promises over things that are not specifically of a personal nature or weight, but I might as well say it for myself for sake of posterity:

If anywhere in the near future do I need to be clearing up issues in regards to trivial-to-serious RP conflicts of interest or countermanding of existing lore for the current setting, I will personally endeavor to facilitate communication between myself and the specified party that I'm having a problem with.

Why?

Because it's the fucking right thing to do. Nobody's at war with anyone here, we're all (well, I hope) just trying to run a good server together and have a great time while doing it.

But I think as a whole, regardless of where you point fingers, too many mistakes are being made where the obvious choice would be to do the right thing first.

Anyway, that's enough out of me, I'll put my focus on more important things besides this thread unless something requires any attention from my end.

[NebulaFlare]

Soooooo...

The blunt of the problem is that we're not communicating.

Well then.

[SierraKomodo]

Yeah, I think Skull's pretty much hit the nail on the head here. The only form of communication I've seen was that PM and these forum posts Hive's been putting up that certainly don't sound like my characters are in the clear.

[the_furry]

Considering I've seen at least three people receive that pm (I included) it's dubious to say "you would know if you were at full risk of losing your whitelist." Or at least losing a core charater you play. That on top of the fact hive is known to hover in ghost and ic just looking for a Taj acting out. I think it's safe to say there's very little faith in the lore team right now.

Getting that pm, I can only assume I'm one of those players on hives prescription list. I've not once heard about what problems my charater actually have. So I'm just waiting till I sneeze one to many times for hive to come down and ship off my main charater to the gulag. At least that would give me an excuse to bring back Travis full swing, im sure we all want that.

[moltenkore]

I do agree with most of what Nebula said, they voiced quite a few concerns I've had as well.

 

Hi I'm Hivefleetchicken, and regretfully I'm in control of the Tajaran race, a race that I despise almost as much as the Diona.

Whether this is a joke or not it doesn't really fill me with much confidence. It's really just become a meme to bash Tajara constantly and I don't really think a loremaster should be speaking about the race in which he is loremaster of like that. Anyway.

I've received the PM as well about my character Nika whom was openly sexual with humans, she didn't really hide it at all and I spoke to Hive about that over PM and were able to come to a conciseness about it. Which was fair enough in that case as I was in the wrong with the lore. With my older characters I do tend to stick to the old lore however, since Nika I've tried very hard to push my Tajara into the new lore way of thinking. Which surprisingly with one exception, was not that hard to accomplish.

A thing I have noticed is the OOC type 'stalking' as one incident that occurred (not naming names), the character in question didn't do anything ICly crazy and kept rather close to the shadows. It feels like the system has become an OOC 'sniper' for characters that don't stick entirely in the direct scope of the lore, which could be abused with forged reports or OOC spite or hate. At the end of the day it's a game and I don't really want to have to look over my shoulder for ever single interaction in the fear that my character might be sent to a death-camp for saying, doing or hinting at something slightly out of bounds. That is probably my main concern with the report system as it is now.

I read on Jackboots post that the PRA seems to have the authority to capture even non-PRA Tajara which in my opinion doesn't seem right as that is not how citizenship works to my knowledge. I'm not to sure why they would bother with a single rogue Tajara so many miles away from their actual planet when they have more important issues with their home world. This however, is probably due its own thread.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

This is why the lore team doesn't make big threads at 4am without talking to me first.

This thread comes on the heels of that hour of the night right after I shared with Hive the fact a player was discussing writing Tajara smut in OOC. You can really see the frustration in the OP. I won't apologize on his behalf but I know Hive isn't seriously seething with rage over the race he's putting effort and care into fleshing out.

Anyway,

No player loses their whitelist without me approving it. You will not suddenly lose your whitelist without warning nor will your character be permanently removed from play without, again, serious consideration from me personally. Your character constantly looking over their shoulder is arguably a point to the race, but all of this should remain IC. Being yoinked off the station for a brief time in our system following PM's is basically an IC form of a warning or "whoa buddy slow down!!!". It brings you to a conversation with Hive/myself.

Qwagging isn't that big of a deal. The most I will allow to be done in response to it is a single line on the wiki saying it's something usually done by children, avoided by adults. Similar to Unathi and hugging; you can do it, you're just a little immature for doing it, and that's fine.

[the_furry]

Jackboot, considering I have even less faith in your ability to be unbiased than I have in hive, you having the last say in whitelists doesn't exactly inspire much confidence in the team XD.

On a side note, lore question. How does one go about reporting taj to the PRA. Considering the past, Travis wouldn't hesitate to report housam for his gay activities (I remember nur). Unless your reconning to say he was never gay. It's funny it's only after others break the same lore you break that you care about the issue. Thought as lore master you'd want to be the example.

[NebulaFlare]

All these replies make me feel better. Honestly. Clarity is what was necessary.

And well actually, I give credit to Jackboot for being lore master. He's put up some pretty fun lore and stuff, and I've seen him shift over time to a little more serious side. I don't know what kind of shenanigans happened that made hive burnt out enough to post this, and I'd prooobably rather remain blissfully unaware.

BUT!

What was needed to be heard was what has been said. Where the line of good/bad characters are, who's actually doing fine, and what more could be done.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Jackboot, considering I have even less faith in your ability to be unbiased than I have in hive, you having the last say in whitelists doesn't exactly inspire much confidence in the team XD.

On a side note, lore question. How does one go about reporting taj to the PRA. Considering the past, Travis wouldn't hesitate to report housam for his gay activities (I remember nur). Unless your reconning to say he was never gay. It's funny it's only after others break the same lore you break that you care about the issue. Thought as lore master you'd want to be the example.

 

You gather evidence IC'ly and send it to Hive.

And yes, my Tajara characters (now singular, Jawdat) were changed following rewrites to better coincide with the lore we've established. How you use this is up to you. Jawdat is a bachelor, to answer your bizarrely specific question while avoiding your terrible attempt at trolling.

[Bokaza]

Hive got his General Shitposting Permit, amusing.

I've actually seen a lot of the other species that deviated from the written standard and it wouldn've have actually cought my eye if I was playing a lot. Maybe that's the problem, you have different playtimes, play lengths and generally different experinces, which is what makes Hive seem like a raving lunatic.

On that note, I don't really understand why the loredevs of particular species insist on enforcing a cultural standard. Sure, there are some behaviors that are untajaran-like and ununathi-like, but as far as culture's concerned everything's... homogeneous. Why can't other homeworlds be culturally diverse and vibrant as our own planet is right now. Why this insane insistance on Warlords and Communist dictators? Is this really necessary or is it just writers screaming "Respect meh effort" and forcing the players to read their work.

Also, Glass Adhomai.

[Mofo1995]

I believe the issue here is that if no cultural standards were enforced at all, then every alien race would just wind up being funny looking humans. The only reason anyone should want to play as any race is because they're interested in their culture, their history, their values and morals. These are supposed to be mostly unrelatable space aliens, and when they are played like any other human, it makes having whitelists at all completely questionable.

Subversion of old country cultural values is fantastic if it's done right. It's a fantastic and horrifying setting to be a stranger in a strange land, and ideally we'd see people shoot off in all types of directions as they all learn to cope and adapt in different ways, but the problem I'm personally seeing in homogeneity. I'm only aware of some four characters in the very large pool of Tajaran characters who even care about the homeland. Everyone else tells me they don't care because they don't live there anymore, or tell me to shut up. They're all so... human.

Of course, not everyone should be kommie kitties or monarchy cats. We wouldn't want homogeneity in the other direction either where everyone is from the same cut of fabric. And not everyone should be pro-PRA because why would there be a three way civil war if that's the case? This ultimately boils down to subtleties. There are a lot of characters subtle about their allegiances, and subtle about their subverted morals and values. And I love them because it doesn't matter what "degenerate" things they're doing behind closed doors (by PRA standards), they've pulled the wool over my characters eyes. Like when, I believe, Aji'rah Laikov(?) Started laying into Hadii with aggressive insults, and convinced my character who couldn't believe it that she was joking. She insulted him and the PRA all night and just added a footnote to each one that she was joking, but in reality she was providing subtle subversion which in the context of the situation was eroding loyalties to the PRA. Or, I have to give a resounding applause also to Rafee Isra. Ever since his brain washing, he's become the ultimate perfect example of what the PRA wants to shape it's subjects into being. He's become the machine man, the new Soviet man, to put it in terms of early Soviet manifestos. And it is delightfully horrifying and flawlessly roleplayed. And, I have to give a tip of my hat because It's also brilliantly subversive. Myo PRA character seeing that is terrified he'll get sent to the same camps if anyone ever finds out he's atheist, and it's making him severely question hid loyalty to something he spent his entire adult life being a part of.

So, I may have written longer than I intended to, and gave more thoughts than were coherent, but I think it's important that we have species cultures as a context to the observations of one's environment, rather than a mold by which everyone is crafted. And the problem to the current state of species roleplay isn't where the characters ended up, it's the process by which they got there. We don't need to examine what a character has become which is out of line with cultural norms, but how they go there. (in an OOC context, mind you, IC institutions only care where you wound up) Culture is a lens which distorts and misshapes reality, and the only true way to have roleplayed a species wrong is to remove that lens. And I believe that if we had a better understanding of how certain characters became the way they were, we'd all understand each other a bit better. Don't be afraid to write character stories, it gives everyone around a fantastic inner view of whatever transformations have happened, and with inner viewing, sympathy and acceptance.

Of course, "showed up on Tau Ceti one day and became hardcore homosexual instantly" wouldn't be so... understood, but it's what's being widely perceived, and that's what's painting a large negative stigma about our current pool of Tajaran characters. There's no reasonable IC way to tell everyone a life story, but I really wish character stories would get used more.

This is mofo, *swag out.

[Guest]

I like how people complained about their old characters being kinda neutralized by newer Tajaran lore. Like, do you think you're the only ones affected by lore changes? Are you that entitled? I had an entire character wiped from existence because of Vaurcae lore changes, and had to change like, three of my Skrells names and backstories completely.

It is not unfair at all to ask you to stop being stupid kitty fucks, and actually play how your race is supposed to be played.

I'm going to ramp up my ahelping of Tajaran's that are 'reheheheheing' and 'snickering' and backtalking to their human superiors, (why would a species of creatures that have submissiveness so beaten into them that they don't use first-person language ever even dare to backtalk to a HUMAN head of staff or supervisor?) , and asking them to relay my ahelps to lore for logging.

I have not actually met a single Tajaran character that is engaged with their lore at all; but I have met many Unathi sworn to Izweski or working in Tau Ceti as disgraced Guwan, and I have had lengthy talks about AIs and the Glorsh Incident with other Skrell. Clean your act up, if the other species can do it, so can you.

[Zundy]

Are you that entitled?

 

self-entitled*

Pls don't be those guys Xander. Pls.

[Guest Menown]

It's not impossible to make a Tajara without any of the cultural aspects to them that are found in the actual lore.

It's another to make a character that's designed to be kawaii and 2cute5me and ugu without any downsides.

[NebulaFlare]

I believe the issue here is that if no cultural standards were enforced at all, then every alien race would just wind up being funny looking humans. The only reason anyone should want to play as any race is because they're interested in their culture, their history, their values and morals. These are supposed to be mostly unrelatable space aliens, and when they are played like any other human, it makes having whitelists at all completely questionable.

Subversion of old country cultural values is fantastic if it's done right. It's a fantastic and horrifying setting to be a stranger in a strange land, and ideally we'd see people shoot off in all types of directions as they all learn to cope and adapt in different ways, but the problem I'm personally seeing in homogeneity. I'm only aware of some four characters in the very large pool of Tajaran characters who even care about the homeland. Everyone else tells me they don't care because they don't live there anymore, or tell me to shut up. They're all so... human.

Of course, not everyone should be kommie kitties or monarchy cats. We wouldn't want homogeneity in the other direction either where everyone is from the same cut of fabric. And not everyone should be pro-PRA because why would there be a three way civil war if that's the case? This ultimately boils down to subtleties. There are a lot of characters subtle about their allegiances, and subtle about their subverted morals and values. And I love them because it doesn't matter what "degenerate" things they're doing behind closed doors (by PRA standards), they've pulled the wool over my characters eyes. Like when, I believe, Aji'rah Laikov(?) Started laying into Hadii with aggressive insults, and convinced my character who couldn't believe it that she was joking. She insulted him and the PRA all night and just added a footnote to each one that she was joking, but in reality she was providing subtle subversion which in the context of the situation was eroding loyalties to the PRA. Or, I have to give a resounding applause also to Rafee Isra. Ever since his brain washing, he's become the ultimate perfect example of what the PRA wants to shape it's subjects into being. He's become the machine man, the new Soviet man, to put it in terms of early Soviet manifestos. And it is delightfully horrifying and flawlessly roleplayed. And, I have to give a tip of my hat because It's also brilliantly subversive. Myo PRA character seeing that is terrified he'll get sent to the same camps if anyone ever finds out he's atheist, and it's making him severely question hid loyalty to something he spent his entire adult life being a part of.

So, I may have written longer than I intended to, and gave more thoughts than were coherent, but I think it's important that we have species cultures as a context to the observations of one's environment, rather than a mold by which everyone is crafted. And the problem to the current state of species roleplay isn't where the characters ended up, it's the process by which they got there. We don't need to examine what a character has become which is out of line with cultural norms, but how they go there. (in an OOC context, mind you, IC institutions only care where you wound up) Culture is a lens which distorts and misshapes reality, and the only true way to have roleplayed a species wrong is to remove that lens. And I believe that if we had a better understanding of how certain characters became the way they were, we'd all understand each other a bit better. Don't be afraid to write character stories, it gives everyone around a fantastic inner view of whatever transformations have happened, and with inner viewing, sympathy and acceptance.

Of course, "showed up on Tau Ceti one day and became hardcore homosexual instantly" wouldn't be so... understood, but it's what's being widely perceived, and that's what's painting a large negative stigma about our current pool of Tajaran characters. There's no reasonable IC way to tell everyone a life story, but I really wish character stories would get used more.

This is mofo, *swag out.

 

You hit it right on the nail, Mofo. And now, I really, REALLY want Laikov to come to your character and say what has been on her mind all her life.

Also, Rafee did a terrifyingly good job. Buuut...well, you see...Laikov broke him.