Jump to content

[Resolved] Character Complaint - Epsilion


Recommended Posts

Posted

BYOND Key: DatBerry

Game ID: bNE-dd3J

Player Byond Key: XenoTiger

Staff involved: this is over a long while, but one incident i remember was ahelped and replied to by Delta/1138/schvsomething

Reason for complaint: to put it simply, in the most direct and blunt ways, law lawyering as a cyborg when it suits them or their friends. and according to not only me, this seems to have been a continuous issue.


some of the criticism from their IPC whitelist app is a good point to start, one of them:

 

  Quote
I've seen them disrespect their own traitor AI while at the same time deciding to not help it out (despite having a law zeroth to help the AI), for instance, one time their antag AI was being attacked while they did nothing about it. During emergencies as a non-antag/non-subverted, I've seen them trying to order other borgs around, despite that there was an active AI during that moment who could have managed them by itself. I've seen them disrespecting other crewmembers, I'm certain that one time I even saw them implying that they wanted to torture a few of the crewmembers who subverted them earlier (I assume they got reset at some point, or maybe got new laws). Still, too edgy to be plausible for a synthetic. They shouldn't base themselves on emotion that much. I've seen them possibly dissing crewmembers in EAL after they were told to be quiet. The list about unrealistic cyborg behaviour could go on and on if I could find more incidents.

 

the most two important parts here for me are:

1: bending/ignoring laws

2: related to 1, disrespecting crew


after their reply in their whitelist app i had assumed they truly cared about the criticism and took it to heart, but lo and behold, this shit is still ongoing at full force.


the most recent incident that effected me directly was when i was a cadet, it was code blue, transfer was happening, i had already searched a scientist who came up with a full armory in his bag, so i was attempting to search another scientist, who then ignored me and started talking to epsillion, i had warned the skrell many times to comply.

they ignored me all infront of the cyborg, i then aim my taser and they continue to ignore me, thus im only left with forcefully going about it. what does epsillion do?

claim i tazed the scientist for no reason at all. i then after searching their bag and holding up a zora blaster infront of them, epsillion tries to decredit me by saying that bluespace bags arent contraband, implying that was my reason for arrest, which was a futile attempt since it IS contraband outside of science.


what do we see here? god damn text book clique action, this would've been shit from a normal crewmember, i do not see how this is acceptable from a law bound synthetic

siding with a crewmember who was pretty damn obviously breaking regulations and slandering another, why? "because lol my friend!!!" seems to be the only answer to me.

this shows no progress since their whitelist app.


another round, which happened earlier now, i was not the one directly involved this time, fiskap can shed more light on this one but the TL;DR version of it being epsillion ignoring and refusing to treat a bald crewmember with no valid reason, and earlier insulting them.



Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? the one ahelp mentioned earlier was too a minor incident according to delta(and i also agreed) to be dealt with on it's own, and he suggested i keep it to myself till i see the same issues again.

Approximate Date/Time: over a long while

Posted

I have to agree that nothing has improved about Epsilon at all. They got harsh feedback for their character a while back but it seems that it got us nowhere, seeing as the cyborg continues to disrespect or slander crew to some extent, to fortify their own metafriend clique.


About the incident that happened earlier now, indeed it's true that other inappropiate behaviour continued. This time Epsilon disrespected bald crewmembers for no valid reason at all, while later ignoring orders to properly treat one after having been shot with lethals and getting shrapnel in their chest. All as a NT Default cyborg, not bound to any station AI.


Crew disrespect continues, the obnoxious cliques continue, the law bending to serve their own interests continues.


This is actually fairly INSULTING to those who spent time writing important feedback on their whitelist thread, as it very obviously appears that after getting approved for IPCs, they decided to not care at all anymore.


All of this is highly inappropiate behaviour for a station-bound synthetic with NT Default laws and I'm getting very sick of this by now. It really appears that administrative action is the only thing that will get XenosTiger to finally improve his character or remove it altogether.

Posted

How long ago was it adminhelped? My name was invoked here, but I cannot say I recall the specific situation where it was brought to my attention. And it feels weird to me that I didn't apparently handle it, especially since I've been aware that the Epsilon character has been one of two longstanding "issue characters", but never had a case where I was present for such reported behavior.

Posted
  Scheveningen said:
How long ago was it adminhelped? My name was invoked here, but I cannot say I recall the specific situation where it was brought to my attention. And it feels weird to me that I didn't apparently handle it, especially since I've been aware that the Epsilon character has been one of two longstanding "issue characters", but never had a case where I was present for such reported behavior.

 

the round was ending at the time so that may have also factored in, i figured you would've left a note on them. it's been about a week or so

Posted
  Scheveningen said:
I'd need more specifics on what happened in the round. Details would help jog my memory.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

this one, i ahelped it one big ahelp in one go.

Posted

RIGHT. I remember. Okay, yes, I did attempt to contact them on that incident but they were logged out by the time the next round came along. 5 seconds after I realized it, Mister Janitor ban evader using proxies from LA was on the server throwing mouse traps at people again.


I apologize for not getting around to it, I made a massive mistake in not noting it down but by the time I dealt with the griefing ban evader the case about Epsilon had left my mind. Sorry about that.

Posted
  Scheveningen said:
Mister Janitor ban evader using proxies from LA was on the server throwing mouse traps at people again.

 

Not sure if relevant, I was the reporter and the victim of this incident. I pulled out my revolver and fired at him because he broke my foot and went far enough to put my health hud in red. At first, it seemed like a prank until he kept doing it. Aboshehab took this case, I believe. I still have the screenshot.

Posted
  Scheveningen said:
Please read the exact context of my post, UM. I just made my case why I didn't handle that case.

 

Additional information doesn't help? I read it clear. I'm adding more information.

Posted

If it helps at all, I was the Skrell holding "an arsenal". Berry pointed at me, having noticed my character was both a weapons researcher and wearing force gloves, and used code blue random search. It was super effective. I opened my bag and realized that I was lazy and forgot that I had a lawgiver in my pack from weapons testing on the outpost monkies earlier that shift. I didnt want to end up in cuffs, so i made some bluff roles, using my character's IC standing with Epsilon to call the cybork to my aid as the cadet performed his duty. Truly, Berry did a good job, I just didnt want to end up in cuffs (I did, inevitably, albeit perhaps the taser shot was a little excessive as per the Force Continuum. A strong grapple would have sufficed.) And my silver-tongued wrbl scientist caused a ruckus demanding herself be set free from this tyranny. I fully acknowledge that Berry did the right thing in dragging my ass back to security to confiscate my weapons. It was within his right and role on the station. However, pertaining to Epsilon: both XenosTiger and Epsilon have been close friends with a few of my characters, though Epsilon only knew this Skrell of mine, Hidashi Toda'keri, through romantic entanglement of her and a friend of a friend of Epsilon. Very distant link. This was, yea, ill admit, a bit of metafriending, and a portion of end round shenanigans, knowing that nobody could, would, or wanted to do anything about it. My verdict would really be that Epsilon doesnt currently follow the lore we have for cydorks, as I think it would be much more effective to retain MMI personality albeit strapped to a law logic core, but that is not my decision. Just wanted to throw in my five bits.

Posted

Okay, now that the initial shock and indignation that I assume comes naturally from getting a character/player complaint filed against you, is gone, I feel like I can properly address this issue without resorting to ad-hominem and making an ass of myself. Since this is my first time doing anything like this, forgive me if I don't do a particularly good job of being tact.


Allow me to preface my defense, by saying this. Ask any of the numerous admins and mods who get routinely bwoinked by me when I want to know if something is or is not allowed by my laws- if I actually perceive that doing something goes against my laws, I -will- take a moment to Ahelp and see if it's acceptable- and if they say no, I just go back to my business and resume acting within what I -know- to be acceptable by the laws.


Disrespecting crew is, unless my interpretation is wrong, not disallowed by law unless it actually causes a deficit in productivity- otherwise, it's just an incredibly risky behavior that may very well end up with you getting scrapped. And when that crew happens to be bald mcbalderson, pale white, no hair, no definining characteristics... and nine times out of ten, seeing someone like that has ended with Epsilon having to go in to clean up from the inevitable death (and likely property damage), from said baldie... Epsilon does tend to be rather skeptical, and scathing, towards them. If they show her that they aren't a threat, she'll actually be nice to them, like she is to literally -anyone- that doesn't try to shoot her or cause issues on the station. And considering that there was a band of Baldos running around the station, shouting at people and generally being nuisances... those baldies were, at best, causing a drop in productivity, which would cause Epsilon to be rather crass with them.


And as for Epsilon refusing to treat them? By default, the first thing Epsilon does upon arriving on-station, is to turn on medical HUD, so she can keep an eye on the vitals of everyone around her. Berry, your character ran up to Epsilon while she was responding to an -emergency call-, with a patient thrown down disposals, who was about to die. Your character, on the other hand, was treated, and your vitals returned to %99. Other than the bullet inside your chest, you were in perfect health- as opposed to the person who was in crit when Eppi arrived to them mere moments later. If Eppi had done a surgery to take the bullet out, the other person, who was of higher rank than assistant, and therefore higher priority ACCORDING TO NT AI LAW, would be dead by the time Eppi got there. And the fact that the AI was screaming at her over Binary AND Medical didn't help matters either- even if Eppi wasn't bound to them at the time.


As for the other issue, of the whole security debacle. I don't appreciate you or Fisk claiming me to be metafriending. Epsilon has a natural distrust of security, and she (Along with me, OOCLY,) always has the Corporate Regulations page up at all times. Granted, I legitimately didn't know that bags of holding were contraband outside of science, but... Tazing a scientist who wasn't resisting you at all, merely ignoring you, could be considered i117, excessive use of force in detainment. (Using force to subdue an unarmed and compliant suspect). Granted, they weren't strictly compliant, but they weren't strictly non-compliant either. They posed no threat, and an aggressive grab would have been sufficient. But, that's neither here nor there. When Epsilon sees a -cadet- taze someone who wasn't running, wasn't resisting, wasn't threatening them in any way, yeah, she'll call out that a cadet tazed someone who wasn't running, resisting, or threatening them in any way. Not to mention that, if she had been allowed to take the gear back to science, it stops being contraband. I'm not -entirely- certain where the law resides on that matter- on whether it's chargeable as soon as it's taken out of the department,- but I assume that yes, it can still be charged.


And now, for a more personal note. I personally see three solutions to this issue that could deal with it permanently. Either Epsilon gets deleted, I'm forced to compromise on Epsilon's character- and promptly stop playing her... OOOOOR...

The ideal solution, would be to bring back MMI-chassis. It would solve so many issues that people have with Epsilon, as well as provide a conclusion to a long story-arc that I've been playing out for the past two, almost three months, while I wait patiently for MMI-shells to be brought back. We all know what's going to happen as soon as they are. Epsilon stops being a Cyborg, and becomes a Shell that's indentured to NT for 2 years as part of her contract, and experiment terms.


Either way, I've said my piece, and I hope I've cleared at least some of this up? Sorry if I seem aggressive in tone, it's just that this is much more personal than any other forum post I've done here.

Posted
  XenosTiger said:
And as for Epsilon refusing to treat them? By default, the first thing Epsilon does upon arriving on-station, is to turn on medical HUD, so she can keep an eye on the vitals of everyone around her. Berry, your character ran up to Epsilon while she was responding to an -emergency call-, with a patient thrown down disposals, who was about to die. Your character, on the other hand, was treated, and your vitals returned to %99. Other than the bullet inside your chest, you were in perfect health- as opposed to the person who was in crit when Eppi arrived to them mere moments later. If Eppi had done a surgery to take the bullet out, the other person, who was of higher rank than assistant, and therefore higher priority ACCORDING TO NT AI LAW, would be dead by the time Eppi got there. And the fact that the AI was screaming at her over Binary AND Medical didn't help matters either- even if Eppi wasn't bound to them at the time.

 

You're outright lying now: the character was never in "perfect health", not even close to it (and it wasn't just the bullet in their chest). At the very least, about 10 toxins damage was present, likely increasing over the time too as it was probably related to an infection. Note that I said at the very least. That's not perfectly healthy. The character in question then told you that you had to come back to finish this treatment, yet you never responded. Not just that, but you also never returned.


The excuse that there was a person in crit in disposals doesn't fly as you never returned to treat the assistant. After treating or retrieving the person in disposals, you had about 10 minutes to return to the assistant so you could finalize the treatment properly (the round end was even delayed for a while), at some point during this he even asked on the common channel if anyone at medical was available. Yet you didn't even respond to that, as a station-bound synthetic on NT Default laws, while being completely aware that the assistant required treatment as they had tried to contact you twice, with no responses whatsoever.


How convenient that you never mentioned any of this here.


It really just shows that you didn't care about the assistant at all, which becomes even more evident if you had actively been disrespecting them earlier. Essentially, law bending to screw over a person that you don't like.


Lying about the whole incident and not mentioning vital parts of it in an attempt to escape punishment is just unacceptable.

Posted

If he was in less-than-perfect condition, then both my Advanced Scanner and Medical HUD were lying to me. At the time I left him, they both said he had no damage at all. And I was still performing surgery on the quartermaster (Who outranks assistants in priority,) to fix the fact that they had literally broken _everything_. And I was assuming that someone else in medical could treat them.

Posted (edited)
  XenosTiger said:

Disrespecting crew is, unless my interpretation is wrong, not disallowed by law unless it actually causes a deficit in productivity- otherwise, it's just an incredibly risky behavior that may very well end up with you getting scrapped. And when that crew happens to be bald mcbalderson, pale white, no hair, no definining characteristics... and nine times out of ten, seeing someone like that has ended with Epsilon having to go in to clean up from the inevitable death (and likely property damage), from said baldie... Epsilon does tend to be rather skeptical, and scathing, towards them. If they show her that they aren't a threat, she'll actually be nice to them, like she is to literally -anyone- that doesn't try to shoot her or cause issues on the station. And considering that there was a band of Baldos running around the station, shouting at people and generally being nuisances... those baldies were, at best, causing a drop in productivity, which would cause Epsilon to be rather crass with them.

 

what the balds did that shift:

callout shit officer who tazed them for no reason, officer was reprimanded by the HoS (and later fucked up again and went to cadet)

call out thieving engineer that security ignored

fixed damaged walls that engineering refused to fix

call out another officer dragging the warden into cryo with their weapon holstered still


only near the end did i actually break regulations but that was due to being ganged upon after having my shit stolen, but that is irrelevant. (not too sure what fiskap's bald did, though i assume he didnt break regulations either while i was SSD)

you merely assumed they were incompetent but you did not assume the crew did not like being insulted? what about regulations? isn't it always assumed crew would like cyborgs to uphold them? the main (and i think only) complaint against cadmus was that he was an ass towards the crew, which was deemed unacceptable for a station bound.

 

  Quote
And as for Epsilon refusing to treat them? By default, the first thing Epsilon does upon arriving on-station, is to turn on medical HUD, so she can keep an eye on the vitals of everyone around her. Berry, your character ran up to Epsilon while she was responding to an -emergency call-, with a patient thrown down disposals, who was about to die. Your character, on the other hand, was treated, and your vitals returned to %99. Other than the bullet inside your chest, you were in perfect health- as opposed to the person who was in crit when Eppi arrived to them mere moments later. If Eppi had done a surgery to take the bullet out, the other person, who was of higher rank than assistant, and therefore higher priority ACCORDING TO NT AI LAW, would be dead by the time Eppi got there. And the fact that the AI was screaming at her over Binary AND Medical didn't help matters either- even if Eppi wasn't bound to them at the time.

 

that bald was fiskap, i think i made it pretty clear i wasn't the guy in the incident. anyway. i understand your reasoning for this. though at least telling them you had to deal with someone dying instead of wordlessly leaving them after putting a band-aid over their gunshot wound would've been optimal. though honestly, disposals = suicide, i would've prioritized the guy who got shot, by at least telling them to sit tight and not move around, shrapnel is lethal as fuck and can cause internal bleeding if not popped lungs and other organs failing. but that's just my opinion.

 

  Quote
As for the other issue, of the whole security debacle. I don't appreciate you or Fisk claiming me to be metafriending. Epsilon has a natural distrust of security, and she (Along with me, OOCLY,) always has the Corporate Regulations page up at all times. Granted, I legitimately didn't know that bags of holding were contraband outside of science, but... Tazing a scientist who wasn't resisting you at all, merely ignoring you, could be considered i117, excessive use of force in detainment. (Using force to subdue an unarmed and compliant suspect). Granted, they weren't strictly compliant, but they weren't strictly non-compliant either. They posed no threat, and an aggressive grab would have been sufficient. But, that's neither here nor there. When Epsilon sees a -cadet- taze someone who wasn't running, wasn't resisting, wasn't threatening them in any way, yeah, she'll call out that a cadet tazed someone who wasn't running, resisting, or threatening them in any way. Not to mention that, if she had been allowed to take the gear back to science, it stops being contraband. I'm not -entirely- certain where the law resides on that matter- on whether it's chargeable as soon as it's taken out of the department,- but I assume that yes, it can still be charged.

 

they had force gloves, and flashing them earlier failed for reasons i dont know, since they were not complying i was not going to risk it and move into range for them to instantly neckgrab me. i had aimed the tazer at them and they continued to ignore me. i think tazing them was better than flashbanging or teargassing them. not to mention once again, they had force gloves on, which is not only broad day light contraband, but that means they are considered armed.


and yes you can be charged with it even if you do return it before security arrived, we arrested someone for shooting up monkeys as a test in the starboard hallway. but this is off topic.


you did ignore the force gloves and zora blaster they had.


 

  ClearThoughts said:
I was the Skrell holding "an arsenal"

to clear this up, the guy with the arsenal was another scientist, which iirc had 2 AEGs and some other weaponry. had you just turned the equipment in i would've just let you board tbh, i dont remember the other scientist being arrested either.




 

  Quote
And now, for a more personal note. I personally see three solutions to this issue that could deal with it permanently. Either Epsilon gets deleted, I'm forced to compromise on Epsilon's character- and promptly stop playing her... OOOOOR...

The ideal solution, would be to bring back MMI-chassis. It would solve so many issues that people have with Epsilon, as well as provide a conclusion to a long story-arc that I've been playing out for the past two, almost three months, while I wait patiently for MMI-shells to be brought back. We all know what's going to happen as soon as they are. Epsilon stops being a Cyborg, and becomes a Shell that's indentured to NT for 2 years as part of her contract, and experiment terms.

 

or simply stop insulting crewmembers and stop favoring certain crewmembers over others because of assumptions and out-of-round reasons.

the second part is what i have beef with because even if you don't realize it, to other people, when you ignore the facts that happened and base your opinion over your relations with x crewmember or y department it just looks like plain old clique behavior.


i doubt your character revolves around only around those two points, so you can compromise/fix them without having to stop playing them, unless your cyborg character is supposed to be a sassy robot then that was attempted before and was deemed inappropriate.



and on a side note, department bias that goes IC is literal cancer, and will only lead to the department feeling alienated and turning into a clique that hates the other side (see engineering vs security) imagine if security went off to search all the engineering crew as soon as code blue is called even though the issue was unrelated like spiders or bears, just because "engineering usually makes contraband n shit" even if the engineer's records are clean, that'd be totally shitty and will lead to engineers getting passive aggressive back at sec, into a never ending cycle of trash and failRP.



Edit: edited memes that were attempted to lighten the mood only to turn out passive aggressive.

Edited by Guest
Posted

This is a notice that I will be taking over this complaint. I advise both sides to limit their comments to factual debate with evidence.

Posted
  DatBerry said:
  XenosTiger said:

Disrespecting crew is, unless my interpretation is wrong, not disallowed by law unless it actually causes a deficit in productivity- otherwise, it's just an incredibly risky behavior that may very well end up with you getting scrapped. And when that crew happens to be bald mcbalderson, pale white, no hair, no definining characteristics... and nine times out of ten, seeing someone like that has ended with Epsilon having to go in to clean up from the inevitable death (and likely property damage), from said baldie... Epsilon does tend to be rather skeptical, and scathing, towards them. If they show her that they aren't a threat, she'll actually be nice to them, like she is to literally -anyone- that doesn't try to shoot her or cause issues on the station. And considering that there was a band of Baldos running around the station, shouting at people and generally being nuisances... those baldies were, at best, causing a drop in productivity, which would cause Epsilon to be rather crass with them.

 

what the balds did that shift:

callout shit officer who tazed them for no reason, officer was reprimanded by the HoS (and later fucked up again and went to cadet)

call out thieving engineer that security ignored

fixed damaged walls that engineering refused to fix

call out another officer dragging the warden into cryo with their weapon holstered still

You can attempt all the revisionism you like but there is no way you're going to convince anyone who was actually present this round that you and your baldie friend weren't completely deserving of the scrutiny you were given. By "Call out thieving engineer that security ignored", you mean chased through the halls with toolboxes screaming allcaps about having "stolen" (cleaned up) a bunch of tools that you had dumped out and thrown all over the place before being arrested. The spin you tried to put on this just makes it seem like you're trying to spin other justified actions taken against you too.


You don't seem to have mentioned teaming up with your friend to drag welders and fuel tanks everywhere either, to intentionally make everyone suspicious of you. If you don't like being "disrespected" and want to complain about a borg being a meanie to you, maybe you could try harder to not act like a trademark shitstirring, no-RP baldie? Or at least be honest about what you did to piss pretty much everyone, not just Epsilon, off.

Posted
  Munks said:

You can attempt all the revisionism you like but there is no way you're going to convince anyone who was actually present this round that you and your baldie friend weren't completely deserving of the scrutiny you were given. By "Call out thieving engineer that security ignored", you mean chased through the halls with toolboxes screaming allcaps about having "stolen" (cleaned up) a bunch of tools that you had dumped out and thrown all over the place before being arrested. The spin you tried to put on this just makes it seem like you're trying to spin other justified actions taken against you too.

 

the tools were thrown around due to a mechanic with toolboxes, hitting with them throwing everything out like that, we were tazed out of the fucking blue if you don't think that's enough to smack someone then i don't know what is. we would've picked them up if we weren't busy arguing with security. you didn't bother to ask or anything, you came by with a locker, took everything and went off.

 

  Quote
You don't seem to have mentioned teaming up with your friend to drag welders and fuel tanks everywhere either, to intentionally make everyone suspicious of you. If you don't like being "disrespected" and want to complain about a borg being a meanie to you, maybe you could try harder to not act like a trademark shitstirring, no-RP baldie? Or at least be honest about what you did to piss pretty much everyone, not just Epsilon, off.

 

i took the welder tank first, he copied me, but that is irrelevant, we had a valid reason for them, people just metagamed it (ICly, how likely is someone to blow themselves up with a welder tank? very very unlikely.)


treating people shit ICly because you think they're just griefers OOCly is the definition of metagaming, acting IC on OOC info. the fact that you can't realize that is just sad.

Posted

Right, I feel the need to put my perspective on this, I usually shy from this and only post my verdicts. So my stance on that round with the two assistants was that I personally felt that they intentionally picked the general greytider outfit, looks and mannerism, now whether their intention was to bait people or their intention was to actually do proper assistant work is irrelevant to what I'm going to say. Before I became a moderator, my first instinct when I see a person with what I described as a greytider would make me straight away wary, and I often adminhelped to make the staff aware of this, I've adminhelped when I see them running about with fueltanks, it's the general consensus of what people on the server do when a very staple appearance of griefers happen. Now that I've become part of the staff team, I always watch them like a hawk, especially since most of the time they are actually new players, the only reason this didn't happen in the round in question was since we were aware they were not new players.


The round in question regarding the two "greytider" assistants is not the topic of this complaint. Points that are relevant on the round in question were already addressed by both sides of the complaint. Another point I'd like to raise is that when writing a post here, I heavily advise you do not base your posts on emotions, nor should you be passive aggressive, belittle or be in any way uncouth, as it does not present you in a good light and will be considered when I place my judgement.


Edit: I also advise those that have anything to say to do so within 24 hours.

Posted

And so a verdict has been reached. I've reviewed the points touched upon this complaint and have spoken individuals. I've based the verdict based on things I've personally observed and evidence present in here and discord conversations.


The following has been done:

1) They player has been spoken to about insulting crew, and told when it would be okay.

2) The topic of meta friends was also brought up

3) The topic of distrusting a department as a synthetic was brought up

4) Told to not rush to conclusions very quickly, while a human can make a mistake, a lawed synthetic word carries weight and an OOC mistake could cause issues.


I would like to note that a lot of the arguments presented here were in the send of the word, ad-hominem. I would like to note that these kind of comments are discarded and never put into my judgement and in the future will be cracked down upon, consider this a warning without giving names.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...